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Re: [Marbling] Edge marbling

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  • irisnevins
    Great Jake... it is harder than it seems at first, so do practice. I read all I could on it, but doing it was another matter, it takes a lot of skill and
    Message 1 of 18 , Mar 13, 2007
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      Great Jake... it is harder than it seems at first, so do practice. I read all I could on it, but doing it was another matter, it takes a lot of skill and patience to do it right, and I had my troubles with it. Small books yes, you could forego the clamps. I believe my books were only very slightly rounded after the marbling. They were happy with the results, I was less so, I saw every little flaw magnified 10X! I have to say I do not enjoy doing this!

      Iris Nevins
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Jake Benson<mailto:jemiljan@...>
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 5:01 PM
      Subject: [Marbling] Edge marbling


      Hi Joan,

      Regarding edge marbling; there are two distinct approaches. Iris had detailed for you the
      most common method in which you carefully roll the three edges at the same time onto
      the carragheenan bath. Like her, I use the clamps. At the Government Printing Office
      (GPO) in Washington DC, they still do it this way WITHOUT the clamps and the pressure of
      the hands alone, but it is now only done on a few hundred books each year.

      You can watch a short, old video, part of the "America at Work series produced by the
      AFL-CIO. This clip was John Ang posted a couple of years ago. I think it was probably
      filmed at the GPO, as it is one of the few shops that I'm aware of that was still edge
      marbling and working with unionized staff. Although it may be filmed at Merriam
      Webster. The segment is featured from 3:15-4;13 minutes into the film. the man tilts the
      books in between marbling each side, but I think this is just for show, so that it could be
      filmed.

      <http://www.archive.org/details/Bookbind1961<http://www.archive.org/details/Bookbind1961>>

      One small piece of advice- practice on blank paper pads or blank books before you do this
      for someone else. Another tip comes from edge gilding. Some kinds of paper that are
      highly absorbent and apt to feature bleed lines can benefit from a dusting of talc on the
      pages prior to clamping. Typically a soft cloth is used and the edges of the books are
      fanned open and gently dusted with a very sparing amount. If you use a size that is
      "tougher" resulting in a harder bond (such acrylics on methyl cell size), this step also helps
      to keep the edges from staying stuck to one another. the edges need ot be carefully
      fanned when done so as not to tear. That said, it's not always necessary to do this.
      Finally, I would suggest convincing the client to have only the top egde marbled, as it will
      save a lot of time. Use a little drafting tape to mask off the top corner of the foredge
      (more about that below).

      While the above method is fastest and easiest method for marbling all three edges, it is
      not without certain drawbacks. If the binder rounds and backs the block after marbling in
      this manner, the pattern is visibly distorted and seem to slope downward at the front and
      back. Also the foredge will show "stepping" in the same areas where each section
      protrudes, interrupting the design. Hence it is best done on small or thin books that will
      not be rounded, backed, and are usually case-bound bound in various cloth.

      For a more refined approach suitable to tight-jointed full leather and fine bindings, a two-
      step process is used. First, you marble only the foredge, then you let it dry under the
      clamps. Once dry, the spine is rounded. At this stage, the books were often trimmed at
      head and tail on a guillotine. Then after rounding, you marble the head and tail edges,
      usually tail first, flipping the spine down to do the head.

      The second method results in no distortion of the pattern. It was a method commonly
      used for marbling account book edges, and this method was told to me by John Dean, the
      retired Chief of Preservation at Cornell University. John Dean served his apprenticeship in
      Yorkshire in the 50's and marbled a lot of account books. my old boss Don Etherington
      concurred that this was the method used at the Company of Stationers in London.

      I came up with a slight variation to eliminate the trimming step. I trim the blocks at the
      foredge and then head and tail. After I lock up and alum the edges, I adhere a little bit of
      drafting tape (masking tape is too sticky) at the head and tail edge, right at the corner of
      the foredge. This masks those edges off from any color. Recently, I thought to try a kind
      of tape that is made for masking trip when painting a room.

      Once dry, remove the tape, and then tape the top and bottom corners on the foredge
      before marbling the head and tail.

      There is one other way that books were marbling after the boards were attached. The
      boards were flipped back. If rounded and backed, the foredges can be straightened back
      out with a device known as a "trindle", which is inserted between the spine and the gap
      where the board is laced in. You can see this in the second image of the Diderot
      engravings. this is very complicated, but it is what was done historically. You can see
      some images here, from Crane's Bookbinding for amateurs, courtesy of Denis Gouey.

      <http://www.bindzbook.com/amateurs/chap9.htm<http://www.bindzbook.com/amateurs/chap9.htm>>

      Additional references can be found on

      <www.aboutbookbinding.com<http://www.aboutbookbinding.com/>> and Denis Gouey's site <http://www.bindzbook.com/<http://www.bindzbook.com/>>

      Here are some direct links:

      Paul Adam, Practical Bookbinding

      <http://aboutbookbinding.com/Practical_Bookbinding/Marbling-Gilding-Headband<http://aboutbookbinding.com/Practical_Bookbinding/Marbling-Gilding-Headband>-
      Edges.html>

      Joseph Zaehsdorf, Art of bookbinding

      <http://aboutbookbinding.com/binding9.html<http://aboutbookbinding.com/binding9.html>>

      Renato Crepaldi provided this link to Harper's magazine a few years ago:

      <http://www.merrycoz.org/books/harper/HARPER.HTM#135<http://www.merrycoz.org/books/harper/HARPER.HTM#135>>
      <http://www.merrycoz.org/books/harper/HARPER.HTM#136<http://www.merrycoz.org/books/harper/HARPER.HTM#136>>

      Also Richard Norman has provided a free e-book on this topic on his web site:

      <http://www.edenworkshops.com/Paper_Marbling.html<http://www.edenworkshops.com/Paper_Marbling.html>>

      Also, Halfer has a terrific chapter on edge decoration.
      the master gilder John Mitchell wrote a book on edge decoration a few years ago that is
      quite good. While the marbling section leaves a little to be desired, the pictures are good.

      I think that the second issue of the defunct magazine "Marbling Bath" from about 1995
      has an article on edge marbling. If I remember correctly, it was a reprint of an older article
      by "Macunius". After checking the revised bibliography of Phoebe Jane Easton, I do not
      find the citation listed. If anyone could kindly provide that citation (and for that matter, all
      the articles published in both issues), it would be really great to get the content of those
      issues documented.

      A woman named Jamie Rhodes has completed a great deal of the editing of the document,
      and I hope to present it later in the year, once other projects are oyt of the way.
      Meanwhile, numerous delays and technical problems have resulted in the delayed
      publication of the 2006 Marbling Annual, but I hope to announce publication of it soon.
      John Ang has done a "marbleous" job of fully revising the web links page by subject
      categories as well, but it can't be published until the others issues are resolved. I'll post
      an annoucnement when the site is ready.

      Best,

      Jake Benson







      Yahoo! Groups Links





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • hamburgerbuntpapier_de
      Dear aficionados, here s a link to a French bookbindery, explaining it all beautifully in English. Susanne Krause
      Message 2 of 18 , Mar 14, 2007
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        Dear aficionados,

        here's a link to a French bookbindery, explaining it all beautifully in English.

        Susanne Krause
      • irisnevins
        Sorry Susanne, I didn t get a link? Iris Nevins ... From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de To:
        Message 3 of 18 , Mar 14, 2007
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          Sorry Susanne, I didn't get a link?
          Iris Nevins
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:studio@...>
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:09 AM
          Subject: [Marbling] Edge marbling


          Dear aficionados,

          here's a link to a French bookbindery, explaining it all beautifully in English.

          Susanne Krause





          Yahoo! Groups Links





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Tony Charlton
          Not just me then that could not find a link. Tony. on 14/3/07 11:09, hamburgerbuntpapier_de at studio@hamburgerbuntpapier.de ... [Non-text portions of this
          Message 4 of 18 , Mar 14, 2007
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            Not just me then that could not find a link.

            Tony.

            on 14/3/07 11:09, hamburgerbuntpapier_de at studio@...
            wrote:
            >
            > Dear aficionados,
            >
            > here's a link to a French bookbindery, explaining it all beautifully in
            > English.
            >
            > Susanne Krause



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • anthonianthonianthoni
            I have been attempting to marble the edges of books recently , and have been faced with this problem; whenever I apply the alum, the pages cockle violently,
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 17, 2012
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              I have been attempting to marble the edges of books recently , and have been faced with this problem; whenever I apply the alum, the pages cockle violently, and they curl even more so when dipped into the bath. As a result, the text block has a most unsighlty appearence when finished.

              is there any solution to this?

              Anthony
            • irisnevins
              Do you clamp the books between boards first before aluming? I usually will take a few, they are unbound and unrounded. Cut two boards, at least 1/4 think ply
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 17, 2012
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                Do you clamp the books between boards first before aluming? I usually will take a few, they are unbound and unrounded. Cut two boards, at least 1/4" think ply is what I use, clamps at top and bottom of spine end, in about halfway through. I lightly damp alum, them blot with paper towels a bit. It should not be able to cockle when clamped. Dry overnight. Us the clamps as handles to dip the three marbled sides. No rinsing, blot lightly with absorbent paper towel, but not enough to remove the color.

                You can remove the boards and clamps so to use again, say if you are edge marbling a whole edition of many. I stick them under heavy boards with bricks on top. I put waxed paper between each book in the stack. All are fine and dry and not cockled by morning.

                Very Tricky....and people wonder why I charge the same as per sheet! I should actually charge MORE! It's much more complicated than paper!

                Iris Nevins
                www.marblingpaper.com


                On 02/17/12, anthonianthonianthoni<anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:

                I have been attempting to marble the edges of books recently , and have been faced with this problem; whenever I apply the alum, the pages cockle violently, and they curl even more so when dipped into the bath. As a result, the text block has a most unsighlty appearence when finished.

                is there any solution to this?

                Anthony



                ------------------------------------

                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • Antonio Velez Celemín
                It s very well explained, Iris. The only problem is not to get dampness in the book, and using clamps and giving time to dry the books, solve the question.
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 18, 2012
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                  It's very well explained, Iris.

                  The only problem is not to get dampness in the book, and using clamps and
                  giving time to dry the books, solve the question. Painting will never stain
                  the interior of the book because there's only a thin layer on the surface
                  of the bath, unable to get inside the book. So, as I said, dampness is the
                  only problem to take care.

                  Antonio

                  2012/2/18 irisnevins <irisnevins@...>

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  > Do you clamp the books between boards first before aluming? I usually will
                  > take a few, they are unbound and unrounded. Cut two boards, at least 1/4"
                  > think ply is what I use, clamps at top and bottom of spine end, in about
                  > halfway through. I lightly damp alum, them blot with paper towels a bit. It
                  > should not be able to cockle when clamped. Dry overnight. Us the clamps as
                  > handles to dip the three marbled sides. No rinsing, blot lightly with
                  > absorbent paper towel, but not enough to remove the color.
                  >
                  > You can remove the boards and clamps so to use again, say if you are edge
                  > marbling a whole edition of many. I stick them under heavy boards with
                  > bricks on top. I put waxed paper between each book in the stack. All are
                  > fine and dry and not cockled by morning.
                  >
                  > Very Tricky....and people wonder why I charge the same as per sheet! I
                  > should actually charge MORE! It's much more complicated than paper!
                  >
                  > Iris Nevins
                  > www.marblingpaper.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On 02/17/12, anthonianthonianthoni<anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I have been attempting to marble the edges of books recently , and have
                  > been faced with this problem; whenever I apply the alum, the pages cockle
                  > violently, and they curl even more so when dipped into the bath. As a
                  > result, the text block has a most unsighlty appearence when finished.
                  >
                  > is there any solution to this?
                  >
                  > Anthony
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • angchengsiew
                  Here s a video demonstrating dipping in edge marbling. Forward to 1:50 min http://youtu.be/KMiwjKzWKrw Forward to about 1 min. http://youtu.be/XkYVRVmbIAk You
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 20, 2012
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                    Here's a video demonstrating dipping in edge marbling.

                    Forward to 1:50 min
                    http://youtu.be/KMiwjKzWKrw

                    Forward to about 1 min.
                    http://youtu.be/XkYVRVmbIAk


                    You can also view these entire clips, which shows bookbinding processes.
                  • irisnevins
                    That;s exactly how I do it, down to the same clamps! They make a good handle. Except I use watercolor, not acrylic. Iris Nevins www.marblingpaper.com On
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 20, 2012
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                      That;s exactly how I do it, down to the same clamps! They make a good handle.
                      Except I use watercolor, not acrylic.

                      Iris Nevins
                      www.marblingpaper.com



                      On 02/20/12, angchengsiew<angchengsiew@...> wrote:

                      Here's a video demonstrating dipping in edge marbling.

                      Forward to 1:50 min
                      http://youtu.be/KMiwjKzWKrw

                      Forward to about 1 min.
                      http://youtu.be/XkYVRVmbIAk


                      You can also view these entire clips, which shows bookbinding processes.



                      ------------------------------------

                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • rosanna corrò
                      Hello everybody, I wanted to share with all of you my experience with Antonio s new book. here s my opinion: I had great satisfaction in turning over page by
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 27, 2012
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                        Hello everybody,
                        I wanted to share with all of you my experience with Antonio's new book. here's my opinion:
                        I had great satisfaction in turning over page by page. I appreciate all the sections,the images are amazing. finally I can say I have a serious, really interesting book about the art of marbling in my library. It's an useful tool for the ones who already have experience with marbling but at the same time for the ones who start appreciating this art. 

                        I advice it to everyone.


                        Rosanna Corrò

                        www.facebook.com/cartevenezia
                        www.flickr.com/photos/cartevenezia/
                        www.cartevenezia.it



                        ________________________________
                        Da: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>
                        A: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                        Inviato: Martedì 21 Febbraio 2012 1:08
                        Oggetto: Re: [Marbling] Re: Edge marbling


                         
                        That;s exactly how I do it, down to the same clamps! They make a good handle.
                        Except I use watercolor, not acrylic.

                        Iris Nevins
                        www.marblingpaper.com

                        On 02/20/12, angchengsiew<angchengsiew@...> wrote:

                        Here's a video demonstrating dipping in edge marbling.

                        Forward to 1:50 min
                        http://youtu.be/KMiwjKzWKrw

                        Forward to about 1 min.
                        http://youtu.be/XkYVRVmbIAk

                        You can also view these entire clips, which shows bookbinding processes.

                        ------------------------------------

                        Yahoo! Groups Links




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • rosanna corrò
                        Hello everybody, I wanted to share with all of you my experience with Antonio s new book. here s my opinion: I had great satisfaction in turning over page by
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 27, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hello everybody,
                          I wanted to share with all of you my experience with Antonio's new book. here's my opinion:
                          I had great satisfaction in turning over page by page. I appreciate all the sections,the images are amazing. finally I can say I have a serious, really interesting book about the art of marbling in my library. It's an useful tool for the ones who already have experience with marbling but at the same time for the ones who start appreciating this art. 

                          I advice it to everyone.

                          Rosanna Corrò

                          www.facebook.com/cartevenezia
                          www.flickr.com/photos/cartevenezia/
                          www.cartevenezia.it 


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • robert wu
                          I got a copy, but I wish it was also written in English because I can t read Spanish and thus couldn t enjoy the text... What a shame on my part. ... From:
                          Message 12 of 18 , Mar 6, 2012
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                            I got a copy, but I wish it was also written in English because I can't read Spanish and thus couldn't enjoy the text... What a shame on my part.

                            --- On Mon, 2/27/12, rosanna corrò <rosannacorro@...> wrote:


                            From: rosanna corrò <rosannacorro@...>
                            Subject: [Marbling] about Antonio Velez Celemin's book
                            To: "Marbling@yahoogroups.com" <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                            Received: Monday, February 27, 2012, 5:06 AM



                             



                            Hello everybody,
                            I wanted to share with all of you my experience with Antonio's new book. here's my opinion:
                            I had great satisfaction in turning over page by page. I appreciate all the sections,the images are amazing. finally I can say I have a serious, really interesting book about the art of marbling in my library. It's an useful tool for the ones who already have experience with marbling but at the same time for the ones who start appreciating this art. 

                            I advice it to everyone.

                            Rosanna Corrò

                            www.facebook.com/cartevenezia
                            www.flickr.com/photos/cartevenezia/
                            www.cartevenezia.it

                            ________________________________
                            Da: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>
                            A: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                            Inviato: Martedì 21 Febbraio 2012 1:08
                            Oggetto: Re: [Marbling] Re: Edge marbling


                             
                            That;s exactly how I do it, down to the same clamps! They make a good handle.
                            Except I use watercolor, not acrylic.

                            Iris Nevins
                            www.marblingpaper.com

                            On 02/20/12, angchengsiew<angchengsiew@...> wrote:

                            Here's a video demonstrating dipping in edge marbling.

                            Forward to 1:50 min
                            http://youtu.be/KMiwjKzWKrw

                            Forward to about 1 min.
                            http://youtu.be/XkYVRVmbIAk

                            You can also view these entire clips, which shows bookbinding processes.

                            ------------------------------------

                            Yahoo! Groups Links

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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