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Re: Special brushes, special words

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  • sixshort
    ... simply drop brushes , and have even bought some horse hair and rose twigs to make one, but time . . . . . interesting to hear of the boiling process -
    Message 1 of 18 , Mar 12, 2007
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      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@...>
      wrote:
      >
      >Dear Susanne, I have seen methods of making these brushes, called
      simply "drop brushes", and have even bought some horse hair and rose
      twigs to make one, but time . . . . . interesting to hear of the
      boiling process - maybe to weaken the bristles so that they retain the
      curved shape? From memory the directions were given in one of my Anne
      Chambers books, but as my bookcase is barricaded by rolls of winter
      mats, it will be a major effort to go through the books right now -
      come on, winter, we have had enough of summer heat in Australia.

      As an addendum - can anyone point me in the right direction to info
      about end-marbling books? I have had a request from a bookbinder to
      do this, but can't find any practical directions on websites, and
      don't own a book with the details.

      It is so good to be in a field where there are no ends and no limits
      except those of the imagination. Happy paper decorating! Joan Ajala

      Dear colleagues,
      >
      > what most marblers do today with eye droppers was achieved with a
      specially made brush
      > by our ancestors: long bristles were bound to a stick with thread,
      pulled to half moon
      > shape, and then cooked. They were used to drop paints onto the size.
      Being no marbler, I
      > use mine when I'm making dribbled papers - the oldest specimens I
      made sometime in the
      > late 80ies!
      >
      > 'Fladerpapier' is the 16th century German term for paper made to
      imitate wood, usually in
      > a block printing or wood cutting process.
      >
      > Does anyone know the English terms for those brushes and papers?
      Your help would be
      > greatly appreciated by
      >
      > Susanne Krause
      >
    • hamburgerbuntpapier_de
      Hi Joan, thanks for the word! I simply didn t dare to use the direct translation. I suppose the bristles are boiled because bristles contain protein, and
      Message 2 of 18 , Mar 13, 2007
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        Hi Joan,

        thanks for the word! I simply didn't dare to use the direct translation.
        I suppose the bristles are boiled because bristles contain protein, and protein will be
        hardened by boiling. I can vouch that it works, even my oldest drop brushes never lost
        their form.

        As to marbling edges: the bookblock incl. endpapers is cut to format, the edges must be
        very smooth. All irregularities will show. Then protect the endpapers with waste paper,
        place the block tightly between boards and 'roll' the edge over the surface of your size.

        All the best,
        Susanne Krause

        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "sixshort" <joan@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > >Dear Susanne, I have seen methods of making these brushes, called
        > simply "drop brushes", and have even bought some horse hair and rose
        > twigs to make one, but time . . . . . interesting to hear of the
        > boiling process - maybe to weaken the bristles so that they retain the
        > curved shape? From memory the directions were given in one of my Anne
        > Chambers books, but as my bookcase is barricaded by rolls of winter
        > mats, it will be a major effort to go through the books right now -
        > come on, winter, we have had enough of summer heat in Australia.
        >
        > As an addendum - can anyone point me in the right direction to info
        > about end-marbling books? I have had a request from a bookbinder to
        > do this, but can't find any practical directions on websites, and
        > don't own a book with the details.
        >
        > It is so good to be in a field where there are no ends and no limits
        > except those of the imagination. Happy paper decorating! Joan Ajala
        >
      • irisnevins
        Regarding brushes... being self taught, when I first started, and still used brushes (I am a plastic squeeze bottle devotee) I used to get a nice long medium
        Message 3 of 18 , Mar 13, 2007
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          Regarding brushes... being self taught, when I first started, and still used brushes (I am a plastic squeeze bottle devotee) I used to get a nice long medium thick silky hair (don't ask what hair, I have no idea, but this works on all I tried) brush and tie a little rubber band just below the metal part. Then I'd wet the brush and stick it in a glass or cup until it dried. Remove the rubber band, and they have their shape still, after 29 years, a nice curve. I'd guess they were close to an inch long at first. I still use them for Stormont at times, or the large French Shell patterns.

          As for book edge marbling, I had a big order for this about two or so years ago. It is not easy. You must insist you get the unbound,
          unrounded, book/text blocks, and get them to run up to 20% over in case you ruin some. I think I did 150 good ones though marbled ate least 160. I messed up about 10 or so beyond redemption, others had smaller blank spots that could be touched up after drying. The loss of text blocks is their loss, you do not discount for it. It is usually no problem for them to print extra while up and running.

          Here is how I did it... and please experiment before taking on the job, it is a lot trickier than marbling paper. I would, for practice either collect a whole load of peoples' unwanted paperbacks, or find them at a thrift store for real cheap, take the covers off and practice. I don't like ruining ANY book, I feel sorry for them! But you can tip the covers back on later and they will have pretty marbled edges. Or you can buy blank notepads about the right size and then give them away as gifts later. Whatever...practice first... and I charged extra for this job, I think about 35% over what a marbled paper would cost. I also supplied the endpapers to match the edges at regular price. You will see why you need to charge more, you have to be ultra careful and it is slower than paper and you need to buy tools and make others.

          So once I felt confident enough, I took a saw and cut two boards a little smaller, about 1/2 inch all around except for at the spine, where it should meet. I used some maybe 1/3" or so thick wood. I did this 5X over, so ten boards the same. I got some long easy to adjust clamps... I do not know what they are called, but they have a lever to ride them up to the boards and then you screw them tighter. The lever works later to release the clamp. You will likely need about ten if a large order, because they need to sit clamped a little while before they come off. I used 10. (Ha ha now I remember where my clamps are, thanks to you, and I bought all new ones, because I am building guitars these days! How crazy is that!... anyway can't have too many clamps!).

          OK...this is getting lengthy, but it will help you. First insert wax paper inside the front and back endpapers of EVERY book, as they will be most prone to sticking if any water gets in. Then I clamped, and this depends on thickness of the book, about four together tight in the wood boards. I dampened with alum, about half strength or less, use as little as you can get away with because you can't rinse them without a little water getting into the text block. Wipe any excess with a paper towel. The clamps have a handle, so you can hold them by the handles to lower to the size, that is why this type clamp is so good. You will see how to place them on, there will just be one obvious way. Do the pattern, and I start on one of the smaller edges, by touching a corner to the size, going towards the side edge, usually the largest. Do not pick the book up but keep rolling onto the next edge until you have done all three. I shake it out over the size or a bucket, whatever, to get drips off. then... the bricks! I suppose you can rig up some poles or tubing, but I lay them fore edge facing down in the open space between two little towers of bricks, wood will work, anything strong enough.... it is heavy with clamps and boards.

          Then go on to the next set of four or more or less depending on comfort. Do all the same things, and when you set the second set to dry, go back to the first and blot the edges with a paper towel. Lightly so you don't ruin the pattern... and remember to not over use your paints...use just enough so you won't need to rinse. I know some will complain that a little alum gets left on, and it will. Others say the alum actually helps to preserve the paper somehow... anyway Don Guyot did a lengthy study on that years ago and concluded it preserves. I don't know one way or the other but tend to believe Don's studies, but use as little alum as possible just in case.

          After you are out of clamps and boards.... you should have five or so sets of books hanging on the tubes or bricks, you can start unclamping the first one and lay that on a clean board, with another on top and a weight. I used a larger board so I could lay down four at a time and stack them... always wax paper between rows of books. This kept the edges from cockling with heavy weights overnight while drying further. As you marble a new set of books, you keep unclamping the next in the drying row, reusing the same clamps and boards. Dry the boards with towels before reuse, sometimes they get little drips, which you can see falling onto your pattern as you have already started....annoying, and a ruined book! I am detailing everything that I learned from having no experience, and the old books sure don't tell you much of anything, esp. the little bad things that can and do go wrong.

          All books finally done, and me, swearing never again... I was surprised that only 10 were ruined. About the same number had a flaw I could touch up with colored markers. It is easier on a stone pattern to touch up than on a combed one, so if you have a choice insist on a stone one.

          The whole ordeal turned out well, but gave me such anxiety I really don't want to do it again. It is more prone to air pockets/blank spots than paper because it is so inflexible while rolling down. Looking back, I should have asked them to chip in for the clamps, which were $20 each, so five sets (10) cost me $200. And the prep time with the boards was rough, sawing to size, sanding edges, I had the bricks laying around. Still, I lost a lot of the pay to tools for the job, though true, I have them now and only have to buy them once. Keep that expense in mind though when setting a price. You would have to cut different size boards all over again for a different size book, and this is very time consuming. I imagine the apprentices used to do all that!

          Anyway.... hope this helps. I am glad to have had the experience, but it was one of the most trying experiences of my life as a marbler. Make sure they understand, you can even print this out for them if you want, I feel I didn't get paid enough to do it. All they may see is... ok, she did four at a time and they are smaller than the papers so it should cost way less. It is a whole art unto itself and requires practice, and is very frustrating. I wonder how many the old marblers used to ruin in the process too. We only see the good ones! The prep time will easily take you a few days between getting clamps and cutting boards, inserting wax papers, getting weights etc. Figure in for you time and materials on that. If you will use the clamps for other things you may not charge in part for them if you wish, I never used them for anything else. Now I will.... building the fourth guitar, it's addictive! I play professionally too, so it was a longtime dream, and now I am doing it. Thus far I keep them all!

          hope this helps....
          Iris Nevins
          www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:studio@...>
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 6:49 AM
          Subject: [Marbling] Marbling edges


          Hi Joan,

          thanks for the word! I simply didn't dare to use the direct translation.
          I suppose the bristles are boiled because bristles contain protein, and protein will be
          hardened by boiling. I can vouch that it works, even my oldest drop brushes never lost
          their form.

          As to marbling edges: the bookblock incl. endpapers is cut to format, the edges must be
          very smooth. All irregularities will show. Then protect the endpapers with waste paper,
          place the block tightly between boards and 'roll' the edge over the surface of your size.

          All the best,
          Susanne Krause

          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "sixshort" <joan@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > >Dear Susanne, I have seen methods of making these brushes, called
          > simply "drop brushes", and have even bought some horse hair and rose
          > twigs to make one, but time . . . . . interesting to hear of the
          > boiling process - maybe to weaken the bristles so that they retain the
          > curved shape? From memory the directions were given in one of my Anne
          > Chambers books, but as my bookcase is barricaded by rolls of winter
          > mats, it will be a major effort to go through the books right now -
          > come on, winter, we have had enough of summer heat in Australia.
          >
          > As an addendum - can anyone point me in the right direction to info
          > about end-marbling books? I have had a request from a bookbinder to
          > do this, but can't find any practical directions on websites, and
          > don't own a book with the details.
          >
          > It is so good to be in a field where there are no ends and no limits
          > except those of the imagination. Happy paper decorating! Joan Ajala
          >






          Yahoo! Groups Links





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • sixshort
          ... No problem, mate. However, as with everything, the devil is in the detail.
          Message 4 of 18 , Mar 13, 2007
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            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@...>
            wrote:
            >
            >Hello again, Susanne, Thanks for the description of edge marbling.
            No problem, mate. However, as with everything, the devil is in the
            detail. << place the block tightly between boards and 'roll' the edge
            over the surface of your size.>> Read my swiveling eyes. Sounds a walk
            over, but I can just see myself doing this - not ???!!! .... the book
            shooting from my grasp at the crucial moment and being totally
            marbled. There must be some kind of brace to hold the boards tightly
            against the text while the tricky manoeuvre of turning the book just
            on the top of the size to catch the marbled pattern is being
            gracefully executed. As I have said before, I think I will take up
            crochet. Any further words? See ya, Joan
            > Hi Joan,
            >
            > thanks for the word! I simply didn't dare to use the direct translation.
            > I suppose the bristles are boiled because bristles contain protein,
            and protein will be
            > hardened by boiling. I can vouch that it works, even my oldest drop
            brushes never lost
            > their form.
            >
            > As to marbling edges: the bookblock incl. endpapers is cut to
            format, the edges must be
            > very smooth. All irregularities will show. Then protect the
            endpapers with waste paper,
            > place the block tightly between boards and 'roll' the edge over the
            surface of your size.
            >
            > All the best,
            > Susanne Krause
            >
            > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "sixshort" <joan@> wrote:
            > >
            > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > >Dear Susanne, I have seen methods of making these brushes, called
            > > simply "drop brushes", and have even bought some horse hair and rose
            > > twigs to make one, but time . . . . . interesting to hear of the
            > > boiling process - maybe to weaken the bristles so that they retain the
            > > curved shape? From memory the directions were given in one of my Anne
            > > Chambers books, but as my bookcase is barricaded by rolls of winter
            > > mats, it will be a major effort to go through the books right now -
            > > come on, winter, we have had enough of summer heat in Australia.
            > >
            > > As an addendum - can anyone point me in the right direction to info
            > > about end-marbling books? I have had a request from a bookbinder to
            > > do this, but can't find any practical directions on websites, and
            > > don't own a book with the details.
            > >
            > > It is so good to be in a field where there are no ends and no limits
            > > except those of the imagination. Happy paper decorating! Joan
            Ajala
            > >
            >
          • Jake Benson
            Hi Joan, Regarding edge marbling; there are two distinct approaches. Iris had detailed for you the most common method in which you carefully roll the three
            Message 5 of 18 , Mar 13, 2007
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              Hi Joan,

              Regarding edge marbling; there are two distinct approaches. Iris had detailed for you the
              most common method in which you carefully roll the three edges at the same time onto
              the carragheenan bath. Like her, I use the clamps. At the Government Printing Office
              (GPO) in Washington DC, they still do it this way WITHOUT the clamps and the pressure of
              the hands alone, but it is now only done on a few hundred books each year.

              You can watch a short, old video, part of the "America at Work series produced by the
              AFL-CIO. This clip was John Ang posted a couple of years ago. I think it was probably
              filmed at the GPO, as it is one of the few shops that I'm aware of that was still edge
              marbling and working with unionized staff. Although it may be filmed at Merriam
              Webster. The segment is featured from 3:15-4;13 minutes into the film. the man tilts the
              books in between marbling each side, but I think this is just for show, so that it could be
              filmed.

              <http://www.archive.org/details/Bookbind1961>

              One small piece of advice- practice on blank paper pads or blank books before you do this
              for someone else. Another tip comes from edge gilding. Some kinds of paper that are
              highly absorbent and apt to feature bleed lines can benefit from a dusting of talc on the
              pages prior to clamping. Typically a soft cloth is used and the edges of the books are
              fanned open and gently dusted with a very sparing amount. If you use a size that is
              "tougher" resulting in a harder bond (such acrylics on methyl cell size), this step also helps
              to keep the edges from staying stuck to one another. the edges need ot be carefully
              fanned when done so as not to tear. That said, it's not always necessary to do this.
              Finally, I would suggest convincing the client to have only the top egde marbled, as it will
              save a lot of time. Use a little drafting tape to mask off the top corner of the foredge
              (more about that below).

              While the above method is fastest and easiest method for marbling all three edges, it is
              not without certain drawbacks. If the binder rounds and backs the block after marbling in
              this manner, the pattern is visibly distorted and seem to slope downward at the front and
              back. Also the foredge will show "stepping" in the same areas where each section
              protrudes, interrupting the design. Hence it is best done on small or thin books that will
              not be rounded, backed, and are usually case-bound bound in various cloth.

              For a more refined approach suitable to tight-jointed full leather and fine bindings, a two-
              step process is used. First, you marble only the foredge, then you let it dry under the
              clamps. Once dry, the spine is rounded. At this stage, the books were often trimmed at
              head and tail on a guillotine. Then after rounding, you marble the head and tail edges,
              usually tail first, flipping the spine down to do the head.

              The second method results in no distortion of the pattern. It was a method commonly
              used for marbling account book edges, and this method was told to me by John Dean, the
              retired Chief of Preservation at Cornell University. John Dean served his apprenticeship in
              Yorkshire in the 50's and marbled a lot of account books. my old boss Don Etherington
              concurred that this was the method used at the Company of Stationers in London.

              I came up with a slight variation to eliminate the trimming step. I trim the blocks at the
              foredge and then head and tail. After I lock up and alum the edges, I adhere a little bit of
              drafting tape (masking tape is too sticky) at the head and tail edge, right at the corner of
              the foredge. This masks those edges off from any color. Recently, I thought to try a kind
              of tape that is made for masking trip when painting a room.

              Once dry, remove the tape, and then tape the top and bottom corners on the foredge
              before marbling the head and tail.

              There is one other way that books were marbling after the boards were attached. The
              boards were flipped back. If rounded and backed, the foredges can be straightened back
              out with a device known as a "trindle", which is inserted between the spine and the gap
              where the board is laced in. You can see this in the second image of the Diderot
              engravings. this is very complicated, but it is what was done historically. You can see
              some images here, from Crane's Bookbinding for amateurs, courtesy of Denis Gouey.

              <http://www.bindzbook.com/amateurs/chap9.htm>

              Additional references can be found on

              <www.aboutbookbinding.com> and Denis Gouey's site <http://www.bindzbook.com/>

              Here are some direct links:

              Paul Adam, Practical Bookbinding

              <http://aboutbookbinding.com/Practical_Bookbinding/Marbling-Gilding-Headband-
              Edges.html>

              Joseph Zaehsdorf, Art of bookbinding

              <http://aboutbookbinding.com/binding9.html>

              Renato Crepaldi provided this link to Harper's magazine a few years ago:

              <http://www.merrycoz.org/books/harper/HARPER.HTM#135>
              <http://www.merrycoz.org/books/harper/HARPER.HTM#136>

              Also Richard Norman has provided a free e-book on this topic on his web site:

              <http://www.edenworkshops.com/Paper_Marbling.html>

              Also, Halfer has a terrific chapter on edge decoration.
              the master gilder John Mitchell wrote a book on edge decoration a few years ago that is
              quite good. While the marbling section leaves a little to be desired, the pictures are good.

              I think that the second issue of the defunct magazine "Marbling Bath" from about 1995
              has an article on edge marbling. If I remember correctly, it was a reprint of an older article
              by "Macunius". After checking the revised bibliography of Phoebe Jane Easton, I do not
              find the citation listed. If anyone could kindly provide that citation (and for that matter, all
              the articles published in both issues), it would be really great to get the content of those
              issues documented.

              A woman named Jamie Rhodes has completed a great deal of the editing of the document,
              and I hope to present it later in the year, once other projects are oyt of the way.
              Meanwhile, numerous delays and technical problems have resulted in the delayed
              publication of the 2006 Marbling Annual, but I hope to announce publication of it soon.
              John Ang has done a "marbleous" job of fully revising the web links page by subject
              categories as well, but it can't be published until the others issues are resolved. I'll post
              an annoucnement when the site is ready.

              Best,

              Jake Benson
            • irisnevins
              Great Jake... it is harder than it seems at first, so do practice. I read all I could on it, but doing it was another matter, it takes a lot of skill and
              Message 6 of 18 , Mar 13, 2007
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                Great Jake... it is harder than it seems at first, so do practice. I read all I could on it, but doing it was another matter, it takes a lot of skill and patience to do it right, and I had my troubles with it. Small books yes, you could forego the clamps. I believe my books were only very slightly rounded after the marbling. They were happy with the results, I was less so, I saw every little flaw magnified 10X! I have to say I do not enjoy doing this!

                Iris Nevins
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Jake Benson<mailto:jemiljan@...>
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 5:01 PM
                Subject: [Marbling] Edge marbling


                Hi Joan,

                Regarding edge marbling; there are two distinct approaches. Iris had detailed for you the
                most common method in which you carefully roll the three edges at the same time onto
                the carragheenan bath. Like her, I use the clamps. At the Government Printing Office
                (GPO) in Washington DC, they still do it this way WITHOUT the clamps and the pressure of
                the hands alone, but it is now only done on a few hundred books each year.

                You can watch a short, old video, part of the "America at Work series produced by the
                AFL-CIO. This clip was John Ang posted a couple of years ago. I think it was probably
                filmed at the GPO, as it is one of the few shops that I'm aware of that was still edge
                marbling and working with unionized staff. Although it may be filmed at Merriam
                Webster. The segment is featured from 3:15-4;13 minutes into the film. the man tilts the
                books in between marbling each side, but I think this is just for show, so that it could be
                filmed.

                <http://www.archive.org/details/Bookbind1961<http://www.archive.org/details/Bookbind1961>>

                One small piece of advice- practice on blank paper pads or blank books before you do this
                for someone else. Another tip comes from edge gilding. Some kinds of paper that are
                highly absorbent and apt to feature bleed lines can benefit from a dusting of talc on the
                pages prior to clamping. Typically a soft cloth is used and the edges of the books are
                fanned open and gently dusted with a very sparing amount. If you use a size that is
                "tougher" resulting in a harder bond (such acrylics on methyl cell size), this step also helps
                to keep the edges from staying stuck to one another. the edges need ot be carefully
                fanned when done so as not to tear. That said, it's not always necessary to do this.
                Finally, I would suggest convincing the client to have only the top egde marbled, as it will
                save a lot of time. Use a little drafting tape to mask off the top corner of the foredge
                (more about that below).

                While the above method is fastest and easiest method for marbling all three edges, it is
                not without certain drawbacks. If the binder rounds and backs the block after marbling in
                this manner, the pattern is visibly distorted and seem to slope downward at the front and
                back. Also the foredge will show "stepping" in the same areas where each section
                protrudes, interrupting the design. Hence it is best done on small or thin books that will
                not be rounded, backed, and are usually case-bound bound in various cloth.

                For a more refined approach suitable to tight-jointed full leather and fine bindings, a two-
                step process is used. First, you marble only the foredge, then you let it dry under the
                clamps. Once dry, the spine is rounded. At this stage, the books were often trimmed at
                head and tail on a guillotine. Then after rounding, you marble the head and tail edges,
                usually tail first, flipping the spine down to do the head.

                The second method results in no distortion of the pattern. It was a method commonly
                used for marbling account book edges, and this method was told to me by John Dean, the
                retired Chief of Preservation at Cornell University. John Dean served his apprenticeship in
                Yorkshire in the 50's and marbled a lot of account books. my old boss Don Etherington
                concurred that this was the method used at the Company of Stationers in London.

                I came up with a slight variation to eliminate the trimming step. I trim the blocks at the
                foredge and then head and tail. After I lock up and alum the edges, I adhere a little bit of
                drafting tape (masking tape is too sticky) at the head and tail edge, right at the corner of
                the foredge. This masks those edges off from any color. Recently, I thought to try a kind
                of tape that is made for masking trip when painting a room.

                Once dry, remove the tape, and then tape the top and bottom corners on the foredge
                before marbling the head and tail.

                There is one other way that books were marbling after the boards were attached. The
                boards were flipped back. If rounded and backed, the foredges can be straightened back
                out with a device known as a "trindle", which is inserted between the spine and the gap
                where the board is laced in. You can see this in the second image of the Diderot
                engravings. this is very complicated, but it is what was done historically. You can see
                some images here, from Crane's Bookbinding for amateurs, courtesy of Denis Gouey.

                <http://www.bindzbook.com/amateurs/chap9.htm<http://www.bindzbook.com/amateurs/chap9.htm>>

                Additional references can be found on

                <www.aboutbookbinding.com<http://www.aboutbookbinding.com/>> and Denis Gouey's site <http://www.bindzbook.com/<http://www.bindzbook.com/>>

                Here are some direct links:

                Paul Adam, Practical Bookbinding

                <http://aboutbookbinding.com/Practical_Bookbinding/Marbling-Gilding-Headband<http://aboutbookbinding.com/Practical_Bookbinding/Marbling-Gilding-Headband>-
                Edges.html>

                Joseph Zaehsdorf, Art of bookbinding

                <http://aboutbookbinding.com/binding9.html<http://aboutbookbinding.com/binding9.html>>

                Renato Crepaldi provided this link to Harper's magazine a few years ago:

                <http://www.merrycoz.org/books/harper/HARPER.HTM#135<http://www.merrycoz.org/books/harper/HARPER.HTM#135>>
                <http://www.merrycoz.org/books/harper/HARPER.HTM#136<http://www.merrycoz.org/books/harper/HARPER.HTM#136>>

                Also Richard Norman has provided a free e-book on this topic on his web site:

                <http://www.edenworkshops.com/Paper_Marbling.html<http://www.edenworkshops.com/Paper_Marbling.html>>

                Also, Halfer has a terrific chapter on edge decoration.
                the master gilder John Mitchell wrote a book on edge decoration a few years ago that is
                quite good. While the marbling section leaves a little to be desired, the pictures are good.

                I think that the second issue of the defunct magazine "Marbling Bath" from about 1995
                has an article on edge marbling. If I remember correctly, it was a reprint of an older article
                by "Macunius". After checking the revised bibliography of Phoebe Jane Easton, I do not
                find the citation listed. If anyone could kindly provide that citation (and for that matter, all
                the articles published in both issues), it would be really great to get the content of those
                issues documented.

                A woman named Jamie Rhodes has completed a great deal of the editing of the document,
                and I hope to present it later in the year, once other projects are oyt of the way.
                Meanwhile, numerous delays and technical problems have resulted in the delayed
                publication of the 2006 Marbling Annual, but I hope to announce publication of it soon.
                John Ang has done a "marbleous" job of fully revising the web links page by subject
                categories as well, but it can't be published until the others issues are resolved. I'll post
                an annoucnement when the site is ready.

                Best,

                Jake Benson







                Yahoo! Groups Links





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • hamburgerbuntpapier_de
                Dear aficionados, here s a link to a French bookbindery, explaining it all beautifully in English. Susanne Krause
                Message 7 of 18 , Mar 14, 2007
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                  Dear aficionados,

                  here's a link to a French bookbindery, explaining it all beautifully in English.

                  Susanne Krause
                • irisnevins
                  Sorry Susanne, I didn t get a link? Iris Nevins ... From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de To:
                  Message 8 of 18 , Mar 14, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Sorry Susanne, I didn't get a link?
                    Iris Nevins
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:studio@...>
                    To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:09 AM
                    Subject: [Marbling] Edge marbling


                    Dear aficionados,

                    here's a link to a French bookbindery, explaining it all beautifully in English.

                    Susanne Krause





                    Yahoo! Groups Links





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Tony Charlton
                    Not just me then that could not find a link. Tony. on 14/3/07 11:09, hamburgerbuntpapier_de at studio@hamburgerbuntpapier.de ... [Non-text portions of this
                    Message 9 of 18 , Mar 14, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Not just me then that could not find a link.

                      Tony.

                      on 14/3/07 11:09, hamburgerbuntpapier_de at studio@...
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Dear aficionados,
                      >
                      > here's a link to a French bookbindery, explaining it all beautifully in
                      > English.
                      >
                      > Susanne Krause



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • anthonianthonianthoni
                      I have been attempting to marble the edges of books recently , and have been faced with this problem; whenever I apply the alum, the pages cockle violently,
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 17, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I have been attempting to marble the edges of books recently , and have been faced with this problem; whenever I apply the alum, the pages cockle violently, and they curl even more so when dipped into the bath. As a result, the text block has a most unsighlty appearence when finished.

                        is there any solution to this?

                        Anthony
                      • irisnevins
                        Do you clamp the books between boards first before aluming? I usually will take a few, they are unbound and unrounded. Cut two boards, at least 1/4 think ply
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 17, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Do you clamp the books between boards first before aluming? I usually will take a few, they are unbound and unrounded. Cut two boards, at least 1/4" think ply is what I use, clamps at top and bottom of spine end, in about halfway through. I lightly damp alum, them blot with paper towels a bit. It should not be able to cockle when clamped. Dry overnight. Us the clamps as handles to dip the three marbled sides. No rinsing, blot lightly with absorbent paper towel, but not enough to remove the color.

                          You can remove the boards and clamps so to use again, say if you are edge marbling a whole edition of many. I stick them under heavy boards with bricks on top. I put waxed paper between each book in the stack. All are fine and dry and not cockled by morning.

                          Very Tricky....and people wonder why I charge the same as per sheet! I should actually charge MORE! It's much more complicated than paper!

                          Iris Nevins
                          www.marblingpaper.com


                          On 02/17/12, anthonianthonianthoni<anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:

                          I have been attempting to marble the edges of books recently , and have been faced with this problem; whenever I apply the alum, the pages cockle violently, and they curl even more so when dipped into the bath. As a result, the text block has a most unsighlty appearence when finished.

                          is there any solution to this?

                          Anthony



                          ------------------------------------

                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                        • Antonio Velez Celemín
                          It s very well explained, Iris. The only problem is not to get dampness in the book, and using clamps and giving time to dry the books, solve the question.
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 18, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            It's very well explained, Iris.

                            The only problem is not to get dampness in the book, and using clamps and
                            giving time to dry the books, solve the question. Painting will never stain
                            the interior of the book because there's only a thin layer on the surface
                            of the bath, unable to get inside the book. So, as I said, dampness is the
                            only problem to take care.

                            Antonio

                            2012/2/18 irisnevins <irisnevins@...>

                            > **
                            >
                            >
                            > Do you clamp the books between boards first before aluming? I usually will
                            > take a few, they are unbound and unrounded. Cut two boards, at least 1/4"
                            > think ply is what I use, clamps at top and bottom of spine end, in about
                            > halfway through. I lightly damp alum, them blot with paper towels a bit. It
                            > should not be able to cockle when clamped. Dry overnight. Us the clamps as
                            > handles to dip the three marbled sides. No rinsing, blot lightly with
                            > absorbent paper towel, but not enough to remove the color.
                            >
                            > You can remove the boards and clamps so to use again, say if you are edge
                            > marbling a whole edition of many. I stick them under heavy boards with
                            > bricks on top. I put waxed paper between each book in the stack. All are
                            > fine and dry and not cockled by morning.
                            >
                            > Very Tricky....and people wonder why I charge the same as per sheet! I
                            > should actually charge MORE! It's much more complicated than paper!
                            >
                            > Iris Nevins
                            > www.marblingpaper.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > On 02/17/12, anthonianthonianthoni<anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I have been attempting to marble the edges of books recently , and have
                            > been faced with this problem; whenever I apply the alum, the pages cockle
                            > violently, and they curl even more so when dipped into the bath. As a
                            > result, the text block has a most unsighlty appearence when finished.
                            >
                            > is there any solution to this?
                            >
                            > Anthony
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • angchengsiew
                            Here s a video demonstrating dipping in edge marbling. Forward to 1:50 min http://youtu.be/KMiwjKzWKrw Forward to about 1 min. http://youtu.be/XkYVRVmbIAk You
                            Message 13 of 18 , Feb 20, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Here's a video demonstrating dipping in edge marbling.

                              Forward to 1:50 min
                              http://youtu.be/KMiwjKzWKrw

                              Forward to about 1 min.
                              http://youtu.be/XkYVRVmbIAk


                              You can also view these entire clips, which shows bookbinding processes.
                            • irisnevins
                              That;s exactly how I do it, down to the same clamps! They make a good handle. Except I use watercolor, not acrylic. Iris Nevins www.marblingpaper.com On
                              Message 14 of 18 , Feb 20, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                That;s exactly how I do it, down to the same clamps! They make a good handle.
                                Except I use watercolor, not acrylic.

                                Iris Nevins
                                www.marblingpaper.com



                                On 02/20/12, angchengsiew<angchengsiew@...> wrote:

                                Here's a video demonstrating dipping in edge marbling.

                                Forward to 1:50 min
                                http://youtu.be/KMiwjKzWKrw

                                Forward to about 1 min.
                                http://youtu.be/XkYVRVmbIAk


                                You can also view these entire clips, which shows bookbinding processes.



                                ------------------------------------

                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                              • rosanna corrò
                                Hello everybody, I wanted to share with all of you my experience with Antonio s new book. here s my opinion: I had great satisfaction in turning over page by
                                Message 15 of 18 , Feb 27, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hello everybody,
                                  I wanted to share with all of you my experience with Antonio's new book. here's my opinion:
                                  I had great satisfaction in turning over page by page. I appreciate all the sections,the images are amazing. finally I can say I have a serious, really interesting book about the art of marbling in my library. It's an useful tool for the ones who already have experience with marbling but at the same time for the ones who start appreciating this art. 

                                  I advice it to everyone.


                                  Rosanna Corrò

                                  www.facebook.com/cartevenezia
                                  www.flickr.com/photos/cartevenezia/
                                  www.cartevenezia.it



                                  ________________________________
                                  Da: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>
                                  A: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                  Inviato: Martedì 21 Febbraio 2012 1:08
                                  Oggetto: Re: [Marbling] Re: Edge marbling


                                   
                                  That;s exactly how I do it, down to the same clamps! They make a good handle.
                                  Except I use watercolor, not acrylic.

                                  Iris Nevins
                                  www.marblingpaper.com

                                  On 02/20/12, angchengsiew<angchengsiew@...> wrote:

                                  Here's a video demonstrating dipping in edge marbling.

                                  Forward to 1:50 min
                                  http://youtu.be/KMiwjKzWKrw

                                  Forward to about 1 min.
                                  http://youtu.be/XkYVRVmbIAk

                                  You can also view these entire clips, which shows bookbinding processes.

                                  ------------------------------------

                                  Yahoo! Groups Links




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • rosanna corrò
                                  Hello everybody, I wanted to share with all of you my experience with Antonio s new book. here s my opinion: I had great satisfaction in turning over page by
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Feb 27, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hello everybody,
                                    I wanted to share with all of you my experience with Antonio's new book. here's my opinion:
                                    I had great satisfaction in turning over page by page. I appreciate all the sections,the images are amazing. finally I can say I have a serious, really interesting book about the art of marbling in my library. It's an useful tool for the ones who already have experience with marbling but at the same time for the ones who start appreciating this art. 

                                    I advice it to everyone.

                                    Rosanna Corrò

                                    www.facebook.com/cartevenezia
                                    www.flickr.com/photos/cartevenezia/
                                    www.cartevenezia.it 


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • robert wu
                                    I got a copy, but I wish it was also written in English because I can t read Spanish and thus couldn t enjoy the text... What a shame on my part. ... From:
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Mar 6, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I got a copy, but I wish it was also written in English because I can't read Spanish and thus couldn't enjoy the text... What a shame on my part.

                                      --- On Mon, 2/27/12, rosanna corrò <rosannacorro@...> wrote:


                                      From: rosanna corrò <rosannacorro@...>
                                      Subject: [Marbling] about Antonio Velez Celemin's book
                                      To: "Marbling@yahoogroups.com" <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Received: Monday, February 27, 2012, 5:06 AM



                                       



                                      Hello everybody,
                                      I wanted to share with all of you my experience with Antonio's new book. here's my opinion:
                                      I had great satisfaction in turning over page by page. I appreciate all the sections,the images are amazing. finally I can say I have a serious, really interesting book about the art of marbling in my library. It's an useful tool for the ones who already have experience with marbling but at the same time for the ones who start appreciating this art. 

                                      I advice it to everyone.

                                      Rosanna Corrò

                                      www.facebook.com/cartevenezia
                                      www.flickr.com/photos/cartevenezia/
                                      www.cartevenezia.it

                                      ________________________________
                                      Da: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>
                                      A: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                      Inviato: Martedì 21 Febbraio 2012 1:08
                                      Oggetto: Re: [Marbling] Re: Edge marbling


                                       
                                      That;s exactly how I do it, down to the same clamps! They make a good handle.
                                      Except I use watercolor, not acrylic.

                                      Iris Nevins
                                      www.marblingpaper.com

                                      On 02/20/12, angchengsiew<angchengsiew@...> wrote:

                                      Here's a video demonstrating dipping in edge marbling.

                                      Forward to 1:50 min
                                      http://youtu.be/KMiwjKzWKrw

                                      Forward to about 1 min.
                                      http://youtu.be/XkYVRVmbIAk

                                      You can also view these entire clips, which shows bookbinding processes.

                                      ------------------------------------

                                      Yahoo! Groups Links

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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