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[Marbling] Alcohol in paints &c.

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  • irisnevins
    Yes Jake, I do sell fabric/paper marbling acrylics. Check the web at: www.marblingpaper.50megs.com for the complete listings My acrylics seem very pricey, but
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 9, 2000
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      Yes Jake, I do sell fabric/paper marbling acrylics. Check the web at:

      www.marblingpaper.50megs.com for the complete listings

      My acrylics seem very pricey, but they go a long way, in fact for use on
      paper I need to dilute them with at least an equal amount of water or they
      are too intense. As an extra surprise I have found when I work on paper
      with them (though I generally don't because the more traditional look is my
      thing) in this way, and do not use "excess" paint, I do not need to alum or
      rinse on almost every type of paper I have tried. I do not guarantee this,
      as a marbler can squirt on too much and it can run.

      The reason my acrylics seem so pricey is because store bought acrylics are
      essentially a colored acrylic base. Mine are very high in very high grade,
      therefore expensive, pigments, and I use as little acrylic base as
      possible. This was keeping fabric marbling in mind because too much acrylic
      base can stiffen fabrics. Also, being proportionally way higher in pigment,
      small drops are all that is necessary. I only use Phot-flo to adjust them,
      if necessary. Usually I only need to figure out whorder to lay them down
      in.

      I started making both types of paints over 15 years ago because I do a lot
      of productio work where I have to match hundereds of the same papers and
      could not tolerate the inconsistensies of the gouache manufacturers.
      Otherwise I would not even be able to copy my own work.....embarrassing for
      a marbler! I continue to always fine tune the paints, and believe this will
      be a lifelong experiment, and it has also been a very costly one, but worth
      it to me. I have literally "poured" tens of thousands of dollars into my
      marbling trough trying to figure all this out thus far. To make it all more
      difficult...there is no one "formula".....each pigment has its own chemical
      and physical properties which alter the need for certain ingredients.

      Even having a consistent paint (and the acrylics are always more volitile
      and unpredictable than the watercolors) is only part of the battle......so
      many variables such as humidity, temperature....and I believe it was Diane
      Maurer who once had me in hysterics because she even said the marblers good
      or bad mood on that day could completely ruin things! So true.

      IrisN.
    • John Ang
      Dear Iris, Is it be possible to let us know how one goes about preparing marbling paints. For example the proportion of pigment to other components of the
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 9, 2000
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        Dear Iris,

        Is it be possible to let us know how one goes about preparing
        marbling paints. For example the proportion of pigment to other
        components of the marbling color, etc.

        Many thanks

        Regards

        > I started making both types of paints over 15 years ago because I
        do a lot
        > of productio work where I have to match hundereds of the same
        papers and
        > could not tolerate the inconsistensies of the gouache manufacturers.
        > Otherwise I would not even be able to copy my own
        work.....embarrassing for
        > a marbler! I continue to always fine tune the paints, and believe
        this will
        > be a lifelong experiment, and it has also been a very costly one,
        but worth
        > it to me. I have literally "poured" tens of thousands of dollars
        into my
        > marbling trough trying to figure all this out thus far. To make it
        all more
        > difficult...there is no one "formula".....each pigment has its own
        chemical
        > and physical properties which alter the need for certain
        ingredients.
        >
      • irisnevins
        This always leaves me in a dilemma, since the marbling supply business is part of the way I make my living. I have literally spent a fortune and a lot of time
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 10, 2000
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          This always leaves me in a dilemma, since the marbling supply business is
          part of the way I make my living. I have literally spent a fortune and a
          lot of time trying to figure this out, but were it not the way I make my
          living I would publish it all immediately. Perhaps someday I will. I don't
          mean to be secretive or insincere on this matter, but I hope people will
          understand that I cannot afford to give away what I have struggled with and
          developed for so many years. I will as always, advise as well as I can on
          the marbling techniques and problems.

          The formulas (and I stress "formulaS" because it it different for each
          pigment) are not a finished product yet either, I keep trying to improve
          them. There are many good artist's handbooks....what I will say, for those
          who want to experiment, is that it is basically a gouache or acrylic type
          formula. They have recipes in these books that ought to work for marbling.
          You may actually like them better than my paints for your own work. Mine
          (the water colors) were developed to retain the more subdued subtleties of
          papers for bookbinding prior to the 1860's. This is not a look that many
          artist marblers want. I consider myself a bookworker more than an artist,
          and therefore developed these paints so marblers who are doing work for
          restorers could have a fairly accurate looking historical paper.

          Iris Nevins
        • Susan Lightcap
          Dear Marvelous Marblers, I have followed Iris , Laura Sims , Patti and Mimi s, Jim Leech s, Galen s, Don Guyot s and others work for many years, admire the
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 10, 2000
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            Dear Marvelous Marblers,

            I have followed Iris', Laura Sims', Patti and Mimi's, Jim Leech's,
            Galen's, Don Guyot's and others' work for many years, admire the dedication
            and self-discipline that is so evident and inspiring to all, feel blessed
            beyond measure at the generous sharing and concern that have come my way
            from these folks as I have toddled down my own path as an artist.

            I remember when Laura and I were in an artists' co-op here in Asheville; she
            would come to my studio and invite me to play with her paints and such when
            she was finished marbling for the day and was always delighted to answer
            questions, smooth away frustrations, buoy up my not-so-strong
            self-confidence, as I splashed about in the gel and goo. Additionally,
            Laura loaned me her show booth when I did my first craft fair, has been
            gladly, lovingly available over the years to offer whatever she could to
            further my work.

            When I did my first show for the Southern Highlands Craft Guild, Patti and
            Mimi came by to visit and said, "You're showing only books? Aren't you
            brave!" I'd never thought of myself as being anywhere near brave, and yet,
            having heard it said , I knew that the words were coming from caring hearts,
            and so became brave.

            Jim Leech talked with me for hours about his work when we were in a show
            together last year in Washington. He could not share enough of his wisdom,
            his philosophy about the world of marbling and his place in it. Suzanne
            Martin, a papermaker and marbler, was nearby, and the three of us talked
            ourselves into hilarious exhaustion about the work we love.

            Art isn't easy, as Sondheim says, and we sacrifice and hustle in whatever
            ways we can to make it possible to do this amazing work. I say, look to the
            masters for inspiration, respect their many years of experience and hard
            work, support their work by buying their books and taking their classes. One
            of the most rewarding activities about making art of whatever sort is doing
            the research and experimentation that results in our developing a personal
            "path" that works for us as artists. With the plethora of books, not to
            mention online instructions, available, it is truly easy to learn much more
            than the basics about marbling. I suggest that rather than depend on one
            person's point of view or methods, sample widely and develop your own way.

            Best to all,
            Susan Lightcap
          • Fred Chang
            Dear Iris: Thank you for sharing so much of your experience in marbling and paints. I am constantly amazed at how much you are willing to share, I personally
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 10, 2000
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              Dear Iris:

              Thank you for sharing so much of your experience in
              marbling and paints. I am constantly amazed at how
              much you are willing to share, I personally think you
              should start up a 900 # line for marbling tips!

              Regards,

              Fred Chang

              P.S. For other novice marblers like myself, Iris has
              written an excellent booklet on 105 Marbling Tips and
              Hints, various observations she's made through her
              marbling trials. I highly recommend it.

              Conversely, I would steer novice marblers away from
              Gabrielle Gruenebaum's book on marbling (Dover Pubs).
              It may be very affordable, but until you've actually
              seen the process Ms. Gruenebaum's book will be of
              absolutely no help whatsoever. It leaves the reader
              even more confused about the process of marbling,
              which used to be quite a jealously guarded secret in
              centuries past.

              --- irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote:
              > This always leaves me in a dilemma, since the
              > marbling supply business is
              > part of the way I make my living.

              =====
              -------------------------------------------------------------
              FerryCommuter@...
              Fred Chang
              Port Orchard <--> Bremerton <---------> Seattle

              __________________________________________________
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              Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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            • John Ang Cheng Siew
              Thanks Iris for your sharing your experience in marbling. ... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ . .-P John Ang Cheng Siew My Paper Marbling Website:
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 10, 2000
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                Thanks Iris for your sharing your experience in marbling.


                At 07:53 AM 10-10-2000 -0400, you wrote:
                >This always leaves me in a dilemma, since the marbling supply business is
                >part of the way I make my living. I have literally spent a fortune and a
                >lot of time trying to figure this out, but were it not the way I make my
                >living I would publish it all immediately. Perhaps someday I will. I don't
                >mean to be secretive or insincere on this matter, but I hope people will
                >understand that I cannot afford to give away what I have struggled with and
                >developed for so many years. I will as always, advise as well as I can on
                >the marbling techniques and problems.

                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                .
                .-P

                John Ang Cheng Siew
                My Paper Marbling Website: <home3.pacific.net.sg/~johnacs>
              • Laura
                Dear Fred, hey, thanks a lot for the advice, especially since I just read Gruenebaum s book AGAIN last night, and decided there was no way I was going to
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 10, 2000
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                  Dear Fred,

                  hey, thanks a lot for the advice, especially since I just read Gruenebaum's
                  book AGAIN last night, and decided there was no way I was going to figure
                  out the techniques for preparing the materials to even get ready for
                  marbling, after finishing that book again!! I really look forward to
                  studying the subject as much as possible and it helps to have some advice on
                  sources of material!! I hope to order Iris's book soon!!

                  thanks again,

                  Laura


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Fred Chang <ferrycommuter@...>
                  To: <Marbling@egroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 10:12 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Alcohol in paints &c.


                  > Dear Iris:
                  >
                  > Thank you for sharing so much of your experience in
                  > marbling and paints. I am constantly amazed at how
                  > much you are willing to share, I personally think you
                  > should start up a 900 # line for marbling tips!
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  >
                  > Fred Chang
                  >
                  > P.S. For other novice marblers like myself, Iris has
                  > written an excellent booklet on 105 Marbling Tips and
                  > Hints, various observations she's made through her
                  > marbling trials. I highly recommend it.
                  >
                  > Conversely, I would steer novice marblers away from
                  > Gabrielle Gruenebaum's book on marbling (Dover Pubs).
                  > It may be very affordable, but until you've actually
                  > seen the process Ms. Gruenebaum's book will be of
                  > absolutely no help whatsoever. It leaves the reader
                  > even more confused about the process of marbling,
                  > which used to be quite a jealously guarded secret in
                  > centuries past.
                  >
                  > --- irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote:
                  > > This always leaves me in a dilemma, since the
                  > > marbling supply business is
                  > > part of the way I make my living.
                  >
                  > =====
                  > -------------------------------------------------------------
                  > FerryCommuter@...
                  > Fred Chang
                  > Port Orchard <--> Bremerton <---------> Seattle
                  >
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                  >
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                  >
                  >
                • irisnevins
                  I heard the problem with Gabrielle s book was in the translation from German. Supposedly the German version it was distilled from made sense, though I don t
                  Message 8 of 9 , Oct 10, 2000
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                    I heard the problem with Gabrielle's book was in the translation from
                    German. Supposedly the German version it was distilled from made sense,
                    though I don't read German. Gabrielle is certainly a competent marbler who
                    knows what she is doing.

                    Iris
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