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Re: [Marbling] alum

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  • irisnevins
    you need to let the alum dry to at least damp, never use it wet, the paints will come off. What paper do you use that needs no alum. I presume you must be
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 29, 2006
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      you need to let the alum dry to at least damp, never use it wet, the paints will come off.

      What paper do you use that needs no alum. I presume you must be using acrylics? They sometimes stick without alum. If not, we'd love to know what materials you use.

      iris nevins
      www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: blynnekelly<mailto:blynnekelly@...>
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 3:56 AM
      Subject: [Marbling] alum


      Hi Everybody, I am new to marbling and am stumped by the whole alum
      thing. I was experimenting with Masa paper and got some stunning
      results right away. Then I decided to read a book and follow the rules
      and put alum on the paper first. Now the paint won't stick to the
      paper!!! I thought alum was supposed to make the paint stick. I bought
      the powdered alum at Daniel Smith Art Supply and mixed it 1 Tablspoon:
      1 cup water. I heated it up a little until it was blended, then
      painted it on the paper.
      I used a carrageenan gel base and also am having one heck of a time
      keeping my colors from sinking. I have "The Ultimate Marbling
      Handbook" by Diane Maurer-Mathison and have read it.
      Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
      Lynne






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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • dkmaurer1@aol.com
      Lynne, I have never marbled Masa, but believe it is an absorbant paper, which would explain why you achieved an image without alum. Many absorbant papers will
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 29, 2006
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        Lynne,

        I have never marbled Masa, but believe it is an absorbant paper, which would
        explain why you achieved an image without alum. Many absorbant papers will
        yield a rather soft and slightly blurred
        image without any alum mordant. If Masa is also an acid-free paper, and I
        believe it is, that too could explain why the alum did not work for you. A
        calcium coated paper ( which renders the paper acid free) will repel the alum and
        then the color. I don't have time to reply to your questions in print, but if
        you have really read my book and are following the instructions to a T, I'd be
        happy to speak with you via telephone. Try me between 4 and 6 EST today at
        814-422-8651.

        Best,
        Diane
        www.dianemaurer.com


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John Goode
        You may have the wrong type of alum. Try another source from a marbling supplier like colophon or Diane Maurer. Good Luck JBG ... [Non-text portions of this
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 29, 2006
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          You may have the wrong type of alum.
          Try another source from a marbling supplier like colophon or Diane Maurer.
          Good Luck JBG


          On 3/29/06, blynnekelly <blynnekelly@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Everybody, I am new to marbling and am stumped by the whole alum
          > thing. I was experimenting with Masa paper and got some stunning
          > results right away. Then I decided to read a book and follow the rules
          > and put alum on the paper first. Now the paint won't stick to the
          > paper!!! I thought alum was supposed to make the paint stick. I bought
          > the powdered alum at Daniel Smith Art Supply and mixed it 1 Tablspoon:
          > 1 cup water. I heated it up a little until it was blended, then
          > painted it on the paper.
          > I used a carrageenan gel base and also am having one heck of a time
          > keeping my colors from sinking. I have "The Ultimate Marbling
          > Handbook" by Diane Maurer-Mathison and have read it.
          > Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
          > Lynne
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • irisnevins
          true...should be aluminum sulphate or aluminum potassium sulphate. iris nevins www.marblingpaper.com ... From: John
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 29, 2006
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            true...should be aluminum sulphate or aluminum potassium sulphate.

            iris nevins
            www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: John Goode<mailto:watermarktile@...>
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:16 PM
            Subject: Re: [Marbling] alum


            You may have the wrong type of alum.
            Try another source from a marbling supplier like colophon or Diane Maurer.
            Good Luck JBG


            On 3/29/06, blynnekelly <blynnekelly@...<mailto:blynnekelly@...>> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Everybody, I am new to marbling and am stumped by the whole alum
            > thing. I was experimenting with Masa paper and got some stunning
            > results right away. Then I decided to read a book and follow the rules
            > and put alum on the paper first. Now the paint won't stick to the
            > paper!!! I thought alum was supposed to make the paint stick. I bought
            > the powdered alum at Daniel Smith Art Supply and mixed it 1 Tablspoon:
            > 1 cup water. I heated it up a little until it was blended, then
            > painted it on the paper.
            > I used a carrageenan gel base and also am having one heck of a time
            > keeping my colors from sinking. I have "The Ultimate Marbling
            > Handbook" by Diane Maurer-Mathison and have read it.
            > Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
            > Lynne
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • hhumler
            a question for the more chemist minded - when aluminng large quantities of something, for instance scarves or paper, can anyone definitively say that the alum
            Message 5 of 19 , Jul 8, 2006
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              a question for the more chemist minded - when aluminng large quantities of something, for
              instance scarves or paper, can anyone definitively say that the alum solution that was full
              strength when one started the aluming process is still full strength at the end of aluming
              these items. In other words, does the product being alumed draw off the alum and at the
              end perhaps the last sheet of paper or scarf does not get as much alum on it as did the first
              item?
              Just trying to figure out why some scarves/paper come out more pastel than others.
              Granted it could be the amount of paint thrown on the methy cel or carrageenan, but perhaps
              there id another explanaion....
            • irisnevins
              I don t think the later solution is less weak. It may cloud a bit from paper sludge absobed by the sponge you keep dipping in, but I have never had any alum
              Message 6 of 19 , Jul 8, 2006
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                I don't think the later solution is less weak. It may cloud a bit from "paper sludge" absobed by the sponge you keep dipping in, but I have never had any alum weakening, except in cases where you marble "damp" and if it sits too long, especially in hot humid weather, the alum seems to go a bit weak, all the way to totally ineffective.

                After nearly three decades of marbling I concluded, at least for myself, the best and easiest way to deal with paper and alum is to alum ahead, as much as I want, hundreds of sheets if I want, and to alum in 55% humidity or less, and to also store the papers in the same humidity (after line drying overnight and flattening under boards). I have experimented on papers kept for many years this way and the alum is still good.

                As for fabric, I would do the same, though I wouldn't keep the fabric once alumed for years....allegedly the alum can corrode the fabric. It has never seemed to corrode any paper though. I use half strength alum on fabric and it works fine.

                iris nevins
                http://marblingpaper.com<http://marblingpaper.com/>
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: hhumler<mailto:hhumler@...>
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 6:58 AM
                Subject: [Marbling] alum


                a question for the more chemist minded - when aluminng large quantities of something, for
                instance scarves or paper, can anyone definitively say that the alum solution that was full
                strength when one started the aluming process is still full strength at the end of aluming
                these items. In other words, does the product being alumed draw off the alum and at the
                end perhaps the last sheet of paper or scarf does not get as much alum on it as did the first
                item?
                Just trying to figure out why some scarves/paper come out more pastel than others.
                Granted it could be the amount of paint thrown on the methy cel or carrageenan, but perhaps
                there id another explanaion....







                Yahoo! Groups Links








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