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Re: [Marbling] Methyl cellulose Dow Methocel

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  • irisnevins
    I way prefer carrageenan too. I think people like that Methyl Cel doesn t go bad, but I use only the amount of carrageenan I need in a day and don t save it.
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 7, 2006
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      I way prefer carrageenan too. I think people like that Methyl Cel doesn't go bad, but I use only the amount of carrageenan I need in a day and don't save it.

      iris nevins
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: John Goode<mailto:watermarktile@...>
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 1:58 PM
      Subject: Re: [Marbling] Methyl cellulose Dow Methocel


      Why methyl cel?
      Try carrageenan and stick to tradition your marbling will be real beautiful
      verses a muddy appearence.
      At least try both and develop your own taste.
      Just my two cents...
      Peace thru Paper
      Johnny


      On 2/7/06, Gail MacKenzie <gailmackenzi@...<mailto:gailmackenzi@...>> wrote:
      >
      > > Hi
      > >
      > > i will be starting marbling very soon. i would like to know which
      > > viscosity /grades of methocel need to be used to get good marbling.
      > >
      > > i spoke to Dow Chemicals distributor , he says there are lots of grades
      > > of METHOCEl available with varying viscosity. He says there are grades
      > > from 5000 cpc to 75,000 cpc. CPC denotes the thickness which the user
      > > will achive on dillusion of Methocel.
      > >
      > > can any one please advice me on this issue.
      > >
      > >
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      > > fIqA>
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      >
      > Sorry for not replying sooner. I have been very busy remodeling my studio
      > space.
      >
      > JM 5 is the best type of methyl cel to use for marbling. It mixes up best
      > in cold water. To 4 gallons of water (Better start out using distilled
      > and
      > then experiment with other sources of water) add enough ammonia to raise
      > the Ph to 8-9. Then stir in a level cup of methyl stirring constantly for
      > several minutes. The mix will be cloudy. Add about a quarter cup of
      > white
      > vinegar to bring the Ph down to 6-6.5 and again stir thoroughly. Let this
      > set until it is clear. It is even better to let it set for 24 hours. The
      > best results are obtained when the Ph of the methyl cel and the Ph of the
      > pigments are the same.
      >
      > You can use any acrylic pigments that are marketed for airbrush. It¹s
      > mostly trail and error to get the best combination.
      >
      > A note aside.....the largest user of methyl cellulose is a chain of
      > amusement parks. They use it to make the water in their water slides more
      > slippery!!
      >
      > Regards, Gail
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


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    • irisnevins
      Do you use acrylics? I haven t been able to make it work for watercolors much. I don t think it muddies anything in particular, just some like it better but I
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 7, 2006
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        Do you use acrylics? I haven't been able to make it work for watercolors much. I don't think it muddies anything in particular, just some like it better but I don't know of anyone using it for watercolor unless I am missing something....
        iris nevins
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: paulhenrydesign@...<mailto:paulhenrydesign@...>
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:53 PM
        Subject: Re: [Marbling] Methyl cellulose Dow Methocel


        there is nothing wrong with Meth Cel, just different, and the papers and
        colours don't have to be muddy either.
        Not sure where the original questioner is, but working with Carageen is very
        dependant on climatic conditions , MC would be a much easier way to start!
        and less suspectible to hot and cold and damp!

        Carageen is only one tradition, it is not the only one

        paul



        www.paulhenrydesign.com<http://www.paulhenrydesign.com/>


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      • paulhenrydesign@aol.com
        I think my point was simply that MC should not simply be dismissed. Tradtional Turkish marbling probably uses tragacanth ... not carageen. Each of us has to
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 7, 2006
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          I think my point was simply that MC should not simply be dismissed.
          Tradtional Turkish marbling probably uses tragacanth ... not carageen.
          Each of us has to experiment and find out what suits!


          I use acrylics/inks/watercolours and oils for different effects
          Sometimes I use alum
          Sometimes I just use water with no paste of any kind.

          I'm not trying to recreate an historic marble, there are plenty of very
          competant marblers for that.

          I'm always worried when there appear to be "rules" that must be followed


          www.paulhenrydesign.com


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • irisnevins
          whatever works and makes you happy is what should be used.... I just wonder is there a certain type of MC or certain dilution that works well with watercolors.
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 7, 2006
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            whatever works and makes you happy is what should be used.... I just wonder is there a certain type of MC or certain dilution that works well with watercolors.

            iris nevins
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: paulhenrydesign@...<mailto:paulhenrydesign@...>
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 5:16 PM
            Subject: Re: [Marbling] Methyl cellulose Dow Methocel



            I think my point was simply that MC should not simply be dismissed.
            Tradtional Turkish marbling probably uses tragacanth ... not carageen.
            Each of us has to experiment and find out what suits!


            I use acrylics/inks/watercolours and oils for different effects
            Sometimes I use alum
            Sometimes I just use water with no paste of any kind.

            I'm not trying to recreate an historic marble, there are plenty of very
            competant marblers for that.

            I'm always worried when there appear to be "rules" that must be followed


            www.paulhenrydesign.com<http://www.paulhenrydesign.com/>


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            Yahoo! Groups Links








            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Anna Meier
            Hi, I usually use methylcel for marbling. I tested recently carrageeenan again, but i couldn t recognize any big difference. I use water colors, but i dont use
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 10, 2006
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              Hi,
              I usually use methylcel for marbling. I tested recently carrageeenan again, but i couldn't recognize any big difference. I use water colors, but i dont use ox gall, but a wetting agent with biological tensids. It smells a little like ox gall and is probably not as toxic as photo flo.
              But the cheap methyl cel doesnt work well.
              But maybe I´m not marbling so much, to see any difference between meth cel and carrageenan.
              anna


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