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Re: [Marbling] Methyl cellulose Dow Methocel

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  • Gail MacKenzie
    ... Sorry for not replying sooner. I have been very busy remodeling my studio space. JM 5 is the best type of methyl cel to use for marbling. It mixes up
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 7, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      > Hi
      >
      > i will be starting marbling very soon. i would like to know which
      > viscosity /grades of methocel need to be used to get good marbling.
      >
      > i spoke to Dow Chemicals distributor , he says there are lots of grades
      > of METHOCEl available with varying viscosity. He says there are grades
      > from 5000 cpc to 75,000 cpc. CPC denotes the thickness which the user
      > will achive on dillusion of Methocel.
      >
      > can any one please advice me on this issue.
      >
      >
      > srikkanth sundaram
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > SPONSORED LINKS
      >
      > Art and design school
      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Art+and+design+school&w1=Art+and+design+s
      > chool&w2=Art+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Game+art+design+college&w5=A
      > rt+design&w6=Graphic+art+design+program&c=6&s=149&.sig=y_kBz8jyoTssYFXVzKqsjw>
      > Art design class
      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Art+design+class&w1=Art+and+design+school
      > &w2=Art+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Game+art+design+college&w5=Art+de
      > sign&w6=Graphic+art+design+program&c=6&s=149&.sig=NxCo5z8HesWg31OLS2Qoug> Art
      > design degree
      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Art+design+degree&w1=Art+and+design+schoo
      > l&w2=Art+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Game+art+design+college&w5=Art+d
      > esign&w6=Graphic+art+design+program&c=6&s=149&.sig=Pj15asOIcFH-_HKT9uDZBQ>
      > Game art design college
      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Game+art+design+college&w1=Art+and+design
      > +school&w2=Art+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Game+art+design+college&w5
      > =Art+design&w6=Graphic+art+design+program&c=6&s=149&.sig=QL-xADcp_aX9ixeP9XLbo
      > w> Art design
      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Art+design&w1=Art+and+design+school&w2=Ar
      > t+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Game+art+design+college&w5=Art+design&w
      > 6=Graphic+art+design+program&c=6&s=149&.sig=PGD8zwgImSrpbEzeg4pOmQ> Graphic
      > art design program
      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graphic+art+design+program&w1=Art+and+des
      > ign+school&w2=Art+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Game+art+design+college
      > &w5=Art+design&w6=Graphic+art+design+program&c=6&s=149&.sig=1e95pLYTHyO569DMoW
      > fIqA>
      >
      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
      >
      > * Visit your group "Marbling <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling> " on
      > the web.
      > *
      > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > * Marbling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:Marbling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
      > *
      > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
      > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
      >
      >
      >

      Sorry for not replying sooner. I have been very busy remodeling my studio
      space.

      JM 5 is the best type of methyl cel to use for marbling. It mixes up best
      in cold water. To 4 gallons of water (Better start out using distilled and
      then experiment with other sources of water) add enough ammonia to raise
      the Ph to 8-9. Then stir in a level cup of methyl stirring constantly for
      several minutes. The mix will be cloudy. Add about a quarter cup of white
      vinegar to bring the Ph down to 6-6.5 and again stir thoroughly. Let this
      set until it is clear. It is even better to let it set for 24 hours. The
      best results are obtained when the Ph of the methyl cel and the Ph of the
      pigments are the same.

      You can use any acrylic pigments that are marketed for airbrush. It¹s
      mostly trail and error to get the best combination.

      A note aside.....the largest user of methyl cellulose is a chain of
      amusement parks. They use it to make the water in their water slides more
      slippery!!

      Regards, Gail


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John Goode
      Why methyl cel? Try carrageenan and stick to tradition your marbling will be real beautiful verses a muddy appearence. At least try both and develop your own
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 7, 2006
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        Why methyl cel?
        Try carrageenan and stick to tradition your marbling will be real beautiful
        verses a muddy appearence.
        At least try both and develop your own taste.
        Just my two cents...
        Peace thru Paper
        Johnny


        On 2/7/06, Gail MacKenzie <gailmackenzi@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Hi
        > >
        > > i will be starting marbling very soon. i would like to know which
        > > viscosity /grades of methocel need to be used to get good marbling.
        > >
        > > i spoke to Dow Chemicals distributor , he says there are lots of grades
        > > of METHOCEl available with varying viscosity. He says there are grades
        > > from 5000 cpc to 75,000 cpc. CPC denotes the thickness which the user
        > > will achive on dillusion of Methocel.
        > >
        > > can any one please advice me on this issue.
        > >
        > >
        > > srikkanth sundaram
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > SPONSORED LINKS
        > >
        > > Art and design school
        > > <
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Art+and+design+school&w1=Art+and+design+s
        > >
        > chool&w2=Art+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Game+art+design+college&w5=A
        > >
        > rt+design&w6=Graphic+art+design+program&c=6&s=149&.sig=y_kBz8jyoTssYFXVzKqsjw>
        > > Art design class
        > > <
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Art+design+class&w1=Art+and+design+school
        > >
        > &w2=Art+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Game+art+design+college&w5=Art+de
        > >
        > sign&w6=Graphic+art+design+program&c=6&s=149&.sig=NxCo5z8HesWg31OLS2Qoug>
        > Art
        > > design degree
        > > <
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Art+design+degree&w1=Art+and+design+schoo
        > >
        > l&w2=Art+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Game+art+design+college&w5=Art+d
        > >
        > esign&w6=Graphic+art+design+program&c=6&s=149&.sig=Pj15asOIcFH-_HKT9uDZBQ>
        > > Game art design college
        > > <
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Game+art+design+college&w1=Art+and+design
        > >
        > +school&w2=Art+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Game+art+design+college&w5
        > >
        > =Art+design&w6=Graphic+art+design+program&c=6&s=149&.sig=QL-xADcp_aX9ixeP9XLbo
        > > w> Art design
        > > <
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Art+design&w1=Art+and+design+school&w2=Ar
        > >
        > t+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Game+art+design+college&w5=Art+design&w
        > > 6=Graphic+art+design+program&c=6&s=149&.sig=PGD8zwgImSrpbEzeg4pOmQ>
        > Graphic
        > > art design program
        > > <
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graphic+art+design+program&w1=Art+and+des
        > >
        > ign+school&w2=Art+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Game+art+design+college
        > >
        > &w5=Art+design&w6=Graphic+art+design+program&c=6&s=149&.sig=1e95pLYTHyO569DMoW
        > > fIqA>
        > >
        > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        > >
        > > * Visit your group "Marbling <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling> "
        > on
        > > the web.
        > > *
        > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > > * Marbling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > > <mailto:Marbling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
        > > *
        > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
        > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > Sorry for not replying sooner. I have been very busy remodeling my studio
        > space.
        >
        > JM 5 is the best type of methyl cel to use for marbling. It mixes up best
        > in cold water. To 4 gallons of water (Better start out using distilled
        > and
        > then experiment with other sources of water) add enough ammonia to raise
        > the Ph to 8-9. Then stir in a level cup of methyl stirring constantly for
        > several minutes. The mix will be cloudy. Add about a quarter cup of
        > white
        > vinegar to bring the Ph down to 6-6.5 and again stir thoroughly. Let this
        > set until it is clear. It is even better to let it set for 24 hours. The
        > best results are obtained when the Ph of the methyl cel and the Ph of the
        > pigments are the same.
        >
        > You can use any acrylic pigments that are marketed for airbrush. It¹s
        > mostly trail and error to get the best combination.
        >
        > A note aside.....the largest user of methyl cellulose is a chain of
        > amusement parks. They use it to make the water in their water slides more
        > slippery!!
        >
        > Regards, Gail
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • paulhenrydesign@aol.com
        there is nothing wrong with Meth Cel, just different, and the papers and colours don t have to be muddy either. Not sure where the original questioner is, but
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 7, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          there is nothing wrong with Meth Cel, just different, and the papers and
          colours don't have to be muddy either.
          Not sure where the original questioner is, but working with Carageen is very
          dependant on climatic conditions , MC would be a much easier way to start!
          and less suspectible to hot and cold and damp!

          Carageen is only one tradition, it is not the only one

          paul



          www.paulhenrydesign.com


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • irisnevins
          I way prefer carrageenan too. I think people like that Methyl Cel doesn t go bad, but I use only the amount of carrageenan I need in a day and don t save it.
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 7, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            I way prefer carrageenan too. I think people like that Methyl Cel doesn't go bad, but I use only the amount of carrageenan I need in a day and don't save it.

            iris nevins
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: John Goode<mailto:watermarktile@...>
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 1:58 PM
            Subject: Re: [Marbling] Methyl cellulose Dow Methocel


            Why methyl cel?
            Try carrageenan and stick to tradition your marbling will be real beautiful
            verses a muddy appearence.
            At least try both and develop your own taste.
            Just my two cents...
            Peace thru Paper
            Johnny


            On 2/7/06, Gail MacKenzie <gailmackenzi@...<mailto:gailmackenzi@...>> wrote:
            >
            > > Hi
            > >
            > > i will be starting marbling very soon. i would like to know which
            > > viscosity /grades of methocel need to be used to get good marbling.
            > >
            > > i spoke to Dow Chemicals distributor , he says there are lots of grades
            > > of METHOCEl available with varying viscosity. He says there are grades
            > > from 5000 cpc to 75,000 cpc. CPC denotes the thickness which the user
            > > will achive on dillusion of Methocel.
            > >
            > > can any one please advice me on this issue.
            > >
            > >
            > > srikkanth sundaram
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > SPONSORED LINKS
            > >
            > > Art and design school
            > > <
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Art+and+design+school&w1=Art+and+design+s<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Art+and+design+school&w1=Art+and+design+s>
            > >
            > chool&w2=Art+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Game+art+design+college&w5=A
            > >
            > rt+design&w6=Graphic+art+design+program&c=6&s=149&.sig=y_kBz8jyoTssYFXVzKqsjw>
            > > Art design class
            > > <
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Art+design+class&w1=Art+and+design+school<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Art+design+class&w1=Art+and+design+school>
            > >
            > &w2=Art+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Game+art+design+college&w5=Art+de
            > >
            > sign&w6=Graphic+art+design+program&c=6&s=149&.sig=NxCo5z8HesWg31OLS2Qoug>
            > Art
            > > design degree
            > > <
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Art+design+degree&w1=Art+and+design+schoo<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Art+design+degree&w1=Art+and+design+schoo>
            > >
            > l&w2=Art+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Game+art+design+college&w5=Art+d
            > >
            > esign&w6=Graphic+art+design+program&c=6&s=149&.sig=Pj15asOIcFH-_HKT9uDZBQ>
            > > Game art design college
            > > <
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Game+art+design+college&w1=Art+and+design<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Game+art+design+college&w1=Art+and+design>
            > >
            > +school&w2=Art+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Game+art+design+college&w5
            > >
            > =Art+design&w6=Graphic+art+design+program&c=6&s=149&.sig=QL-xADcp_aX9ixeP9XLbo
            > > w> Art design
            > > <
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Art+design&w1=Art+and+design+school&w2=Ar<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Art+design&w1=Art+and+design+school&w2=Ar>
            > >
            > t+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Game+art+design+college&w5=Art+design&w
            > > 6=Graphic+art+design+program&c=6&s=149&.sig=PGD8zwgImSrpbEzeg4pOmQ>
            > Graphic
            > > art design program
            > > <
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graphic+art+design+program&w1=Art+and+des<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graphic+art+design+program&w1=Art+and+des>
            > >
            > ign+school&w2=Art+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Game+art+design+college
            > >
            > &w5=Art+design&w6=Graphic+art+design+program&c=6&s=149&.sig=1e95pLYTHyO569DMoW
            > > fIqA>
            > >
            > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            > >
            > > * Visit your group "Marbling <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling>> "
            > on
            > > the web.
            > > *
            > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > * Marbling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
            > > <mailto:Marbling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe<mailto:Marbling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>>
            > > *
            > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
            > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>> .
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > Sorry for not replying sooner. I have been very busy remodeling my studio
            > space.
            >
            > JM 5 is the best type of methyl cel to use for marbling. It mixes up best
            > in cold water. To 4 gallons of water (Better start out using distilled
            > and
            > then experiment with other sources of water) add enough ammonia to raise
            > the Ph to 8-9. Then stir in a level cup of methyl stirring constantly for
            > several minutes. The mix will be cloudy. Add about a quarter cup of
            > white
            > vinegar to bring the Ph down to 6-6.5 and again stir thoroughly. Let this
            > set until it is clear. It is even better to let it set for 24 hours. The
            > best results are obtained when the Ph of the methyl cel and the Ph of the
            > pigments are the same.
            >
            > You can use any acrylic pigments that are marketed for airbrush. It¹s
            > mostly trail and error to get the best combination.
            >
            > A note aside.....the largest user of methyl cellulose is a chain of
            > amusement parks. They use it to make the water in their water slides more
            > slippery!!
            >
            > Regards, Gail
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            Yahoo! Groups Links









            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • irisnevins
            Do you use acrylics? I haven t been able to make it work for watercolors much. I don t think it muddies anything in particular, just some like it better but I
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 7, 2006
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              Do you use acrylics? I haven't been able to make it work for watercolors much. I don't think it muddies anything in particular, just some like it better but I don't know of anyone using it for watercolor unless I am missing something....
              iris nevins
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: paulhenrydesign@...<mailto:paulhenrydesign@...>
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:53 PM
              Subject: Re: [Marbling] Methyl cellulose Dow Methocel


              there is nothing wrong with Meth Cel, just different, and the papers and
              colours don't have to be muddy either.
              Not sure where the original questioner is, but working with Carageen is very
              dependant on climatic conditions , MC would be a much easier way to start!
              and less suspectible to hot and cold and damp!

              Carageen is only one tradition, it is not the only one

              paul



              www.paulhenrydesign.com<http://www.paulhenrydesign.com/>


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              Yahoo! Groups Links








              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • paulhenrydesign@aol.com
              I think my point was simply that MC should not simply be dismissed. Tradtional Turkish marbling probably uses tragacanth ... not carageen. Each of us has to
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 7, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                I think my point was simply that MC should not simply be dismissed.
                Tradtional Turkish marbling probably uses tragacanth ... not carageen.
                Each of us has to experiment and find out what suits!


                I use acrylics/inks/watercolours and oils for different effects
                Sometimes I use alum
                Sometimes I just use water with no paste of any kind.

                I'm not trying to recreate an historic marble, there are plenty of very
                competant marblers for that.

                I'm always worried when there appear to be "rules" that must be followed


                www.paulhenrydesign.com


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • irisnevins
                whatever works and makes you happy is what should be used.... I just wonder is there a certain type of MC or certain dilution that works well with watercolors.
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 7, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  whatever works and makes you happy is what should be used.... I just wonder is there a certain type of MC or certain dilution that works well with watercolors.

                  iris nevins
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: paulhenrydesign@...<mailto:paulhenrydesign@...>
                  To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 5:16 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Marbling] Methyl cellulose Dow Methocel



                  I think my point was simply that MC should not simply be dismissed.
                  Tradtional Turkish marbling probably uses tragacanth ... not carageen.
                  Each of us has to experiment and find out what suits!


                  I use acrylics/inks/watercolours and oils for different effects
                  Sometimes I use alum
                  Sometimes I just use water with no paste of any kind.

                  I'm not trying to recreate an historic marble, there are plenty of very
                  competant marblers for that.

                  I'm always worried when there appear to be "rules" that must be followed


                  www.paulhenrydesign.com<http://www.paulhenrydesign.com/>


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  Yahoo! Groups Links








                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Anna Meier
                  Hi, I usually use methylcel for marbling. I tested recently carrageeenan again, but i couldn t recognize any big difference. I use water colors, but i dont use
                  Message 8 of 9 , Feb 10, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi,
                    I usually use methylcel for marbling. I tested recently carrageeenan again, but i couldn't recognize any big difference. I use water colors, but i dont use ox gall, but a wetting agent with biological tensids. It smells a little like ox gall and is probably not as toxic as photo flo.
                    But the cheap methyl cel doesnt work well.
                    But maybe I´m not marbling so much, to see any difference between meth cel and carrageenan.
                    anna


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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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