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Bulk Carrageenan

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  • james tapley
    Yes, it is the same carrageenan you find in Wonder Bread and chocolate milk, etc. Last time I looked minimum order from a food product supplier was a couple
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 9, 2005
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      Yes, it is the same carrageenan you find in Wonder Bread and
      chocolate milk, etc.
      Last time I looked minimum order from a food product supplier was a
      couple 100 pounds barrel. Oi!

      James Tapley
      Hand
      Bookbinder
      2077 13th Street
      Sarasota FL 34237
      941.366.8248
    • irisnevins
      Ahhhh...for the old days! I started this way too. I love the powdered stuff though! If the price keeps going up, maybe a trip to Nova Scotia is in order! ...
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 9, 2005
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        Ahhhh...for the old days! I started this way too. I love the powdered stuff though! If the price keeps going up, maybe a trip to Nova Scotia is in order!
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: james tapley<mailto:jthandbook@...>
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 11:04 AM
        Subject: [Marbling] Seaweed/Carrageenan


        We used to buy dried crumbled seaweed (purchased in bulk from health
        food stores) and boiled that to extract the agar (the gelatinous
        substance also known as carrageenan) straining out and discarding the
        seaweed.
        The seaweed is harvested by trawler from the oceans (chiefly the
        Indian and North Atlantic), washed and cooked on an industrial scale
        to extract the gelatin. Finally the water is extracted from the agar
        leaving the dry powder that one can mix in the blender.
        All seaweeds contain this agar to a degree though concentration
        depends upon type of seaweed (reds and purples the best) and where it
        grows. In the olden days most European agar was extracted from
        seaweed washed ashore in Ireland (why it was/is called Irish moss)
        where people made a partial living collecting, rinsing, and drying it
        for sale. No reason you can't do the same. Figure on three or four
        handfuls of washed (to rid the salt) dried seaweed to as many gallons
        boiling water. Simmer about 20 minutes, let cool, strain through
        cheesecloth then dilute to working consistency.

        James Tapley
        Hand
        Bookbinder
        2077 13th Street
        Sarasota FL 34237
        941.366.8248






        Yahoo! Groups Links








        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Brent Mydland
        I got one ten years ago and still use it! Still good. after all these years but I find I use differnt Carra geenan for differnt paints and mediums. Probably
        Message 3 of 20 , Nov 9, 2005
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          I got one ten years ago and still use it! Still good. after all these years but I find I use differnt Carra geenan for differnt paints and mediums.
          Probably Just me that would do this John Goode

          james tapley <jthandbook@...> wrote:
          Yes, it is the same carrageenan you find in Wonder Bread and
          chocolate milk, etc.
          Last time I looked minimum order from a food product supplier was a
          couple 100 pounds barrel. Oi!

          James Tapley
          Hand
          Bookbinder
          2077 13th Street
          Sarasota FL 34237
          941.366.8248




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        • Carole Vanderhoof
          John, where did you buy the carrageenan drum? Carole Vanderhoof Lonely Pine Bindery http://lonelypine.ce-service.biz ... From: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 20 , Nov 9, 2005
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            John, where did you buy the carrageenan drum?

            Carole Vanderhoof
            Lonely Pine Bindery
            http://lonelypine.ce-service.biz


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Marbling@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com]On
            Behalf Of Brent Mydland
            Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 12:44 PM
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Marbling] Bulk Carrageenan


            I got one ten years ago and still use it! Still good. after all these years but I find I use differnt Carra geenan for differnt paints and mediums.
            Probably Just me that would do this John Goode
          • Brent Mydland
            You know its been ten years but the info is packed away as Im moving I will let you know when I can get it hopefully soon Jake sent me a link off line so I
            Message 5 of 20 , Nov 9, 2005
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              You know its been ten years but the info is packed away as Im moving I will let you know when I can get it hopefully soon Jake sent me a link off line so I will forward that to ya and look there. I found at last check there are 110 diif carrageenan formulas they sell so i had to try lots of samples and they were not happy that I only bought one drum....
              Hope this helps JOhn

              Carole Vanderhoof <cvanderhoof@...> wrote:
              John, where did you buy the carrageenan drum?

              Carole Vanderhoof
              Lonely Pine Bindery
              http://lonelypine.ce-service.biz


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Marbling@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com]On
              Behalf Of Brent Mydland
              Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 12:44 PM
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Marbling] Bulk Carrageenan


              I got one ten years ago and still use it! Still good. after all these years but I find I use differnt Carra geenan for differnt paints and mediums.
              Probably Just me that would do this John Goode


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            • sixshort
              Hi Iris, Have you ever thought of trying Oxford 118gsm paper? It is milled in America and comes in a beautiful cream, white, and a variety of darker colours
              Message 6 of 20 , Nov 10, 2005
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                Hi Iris, Have you ever thought of trying Oxford 118gsm paper? It is
                milled in America and comes in a beautiful cream, white, and a variety
                of darker colours (but not ivory or pale grey unfortunately). It has
                never let me down for marbling. It has a slight texture which doesn't
                affect the marbling, and I have had good reports of it from
                bookbinders. A paper from Austria, Concept, 104gsm, also marbles
                beautifully. It comes in many delicate shades of blue, grey, sand,
                pink and white. Both of these papers were recommended to me by Vi
                Wilson. The Kaskad range from Scandinavia, 100 and 140gsm in a wide
                range of strong and pale colours is very reliable. It is not a high
                quality paper but excellent for many purposes. I have the sizes and
                grain of these if you are interested.

                Prices will always go up - we just have to grit our teeth and get on
                with life regardless. Joan Ajala

                --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@v...> wrote:
                >
                > I once again would like to find out what papers people are using for
                watercolor marbling, acrylic too, but more for watercolor.
                > The good news is Natur Text is still available, the bad news is that
                it has gone up by 50 cents or so a sheet. At least I am glad I can
                still work! But I wonder if anyone has found anything else that works
                and is under about $1.00 a sheet for 19 X 25 long grain preferably. I
                hate to raise prices, but have had to by half the raise, I am
                absorbing the other half.
                >
                > Also, carrageenan is up again, it will likely work out to about a
                dollar a pound more. It seems to rise every six months lately.
                >
                > thanks,
                > Iris Nevins
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • irisnevins
                Thanks Joan.....do you know who the American distributor may be? I think I have tried Oxford at some point. Trouble is importing papers, makes them very
                Message 7 of 20 , Nov 10, 2005
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                  Thanks Joan.....do you know who the American distributor may be? I think I have tried Oxford at some point. Trouble is importing papers, makes them very pricey. I love the Natur Text and just ordered 2000 sheets to get to the break where it's a little cheaper, still it's just about double what I paid before.

                  I will again research the commercial papers here. Whatever.....this stuff works, I have a lot of it for now, and am thankful that SOMETHING works!

                  I remember once the people from Classic Linen/Laid said if I bought a run of 20,000 papers they would do the old formula. No matter what, we will have paper that marbles! It's not the end of the world, just pricier.

                  iris nevins

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: sixshort<mailto:joan@...>
                  To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 6:41 AM
                  Subject: [Marbling] Re: paper prices up


                  Hi Iris, Have you ever thought of trying Oxford 118gsm paper? It is
                  milled in America and comes in a beautiful cream, white, and a variety
                  of darker colours (but not ivory or pale grey unfortunately). It has
                  never let me down for marbling. It has a slight texture which doesn't
                  affect the marbling, and I have had good reports of it from
                  bookbinders. A paper from Austria, Concept, 104gsm, also marbles
                  beautifully. It comes in many delicate shades of blue, grey, sand,
                  pink and white. Both of these papers were recommended to me by Vi
                  Wilson. The Kaskad range from Scandinavia, 100 and 140gsm in a wide
                  range of strong and pale colours is very reliable. It is not a high
                  quality paper but excellent for many purposes. I have the sizes and
                  grain of these if you are interested.

                  Prices will always go up - we just have to grit our teeth and get on
                  with life regardless. Joan Ajala

                  --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@v<mailto:irisnevins@v>...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I once again would like to find out what papers people are using for
                  watercolor marbling, acrylic too, but more for watercolor.
                  > The good news is Natur Text is still available, the bad news is that
                  it has gone up by 50 cents or so a sheet. At least I am glad I can
                  still work! But I wonder if anyone has found anything else that works
                  and is under about $1.00 a sheet for 19 X 25 long grain preferably. I
                  hate to raise prices, but have had to by half the raise, I am
                  absorbing the other half.
                  >
                  > Also, carrageenan is up again, it will likely work out to about a
                  dollar a pound more. It seems to rise every six months lately.
                  >
                  > thanks,
                  > Iris Nevins
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >








                  Yahoo! Groups Links








                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Dave Allen
                  Iris, II don t think you should absorb any of the increased cost of the paper. I always pass on the cost of materials directly to my clients and have never had
                  Message 8 of 20 , Nov 10, 2005
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                    Iris,
                    II don't think you should absorb any of the increased cost of the paper.
                    I always pass on the cost of materials directly to my clients and have
                    never had a complaint when prices went up. Why should you absorb the cost?
                    If you increase your prices a bit at a time based on what it costs you
                    plus your markup then you never have to make a major adjustment of
                    prices which really upsets people.
                    Just my 2 cents,
                    Dave Allen

                    irisnevins wrote:

                    >I once again would like to find out what papers people are using for watercolor marbling, acrylic too, but more for watercolor.
                    >The good news is Natur Text is still available, the bad news is that it has gone up by 50 cents or so a sheet. At least I am glad I can still work! But I wonder if anyone has found anything else that works and is under about $1.00 a sheet for 19 X 25 long grain preferably. I hate to raise prices, but have had to by half the raise, I am absorbing the other half.
                    >Also, carrageenan is up again, it will likely work out to about a dollar a pound more. It seems to rise every six months lately.
                    >thanks,
                    >Iris Nevins
                    >
                    >
                    _____
                    Beddall Bookbinding Conservation & Restoration
                    840 Snowdrop Avenue
                    Victoria BC CANADA V8Z 2N4
                    (250)888-9380
                    http://www.bookbinder.ca/
                  • hamburgerbuntpapier_de
                    Hi Dave, I think you are right, absorbing increased prices only gives problems later on, when there are more rises and you have to make up for them in one
                    Message 9 of 20 , Nov 10, 2005
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                      Hi Dave,
                      I think you are right, absorbing increased prices only gives problems later on, when there
                      are more rises and you have to make up for them in one step. There are limits as to how
                      often and for which article you can raise prices, though... My catalogue prices usually keep
                      three or four years, with a somewhat tight feeling towards the end, while I adjust the
                      prices for specials as the need arises. This does nicely for me. It's a political decision
                      really.

                      As to paper: Hahnemühle has done something or other to what they call Nature Tex in the
                      US, making it unfit for all my sprinkeled techniques (while it continues to work well for
                      marbling and reasonably well for paste). They maintained, however, that they changed
                      nothing and that the faults were entirely on my side - until I sent them samples. That put
                      a full stop to our correspondence. As this has happened before with Hahnemühle, I
                      decided to find another base paper.
                      I have changed to Corolla Book by Fedrigoni. It's Italian, which means another import for
                      you in US in case they do not have a plant in AMerica. It is only slightly more expensive
                      than the Hahnemühle, but much more elegant, less fillers and less air in it compared to
                      the Nature Tex. I'm using the 90gms kind. Very suitable for restoration stuff! The old
                      papers were thin.

                      Susanne Krause



                      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Dave Allen <canadian_bookbinder@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Iris,
                      > II don't think you should absorb any of the increased cost of the paper.
                      > I always pass on the cost of materials directly to my clients and have
                      > never had a complaint when prices went up. Why should you absorb the cost?
                      > If you increase your prices a bit at a time based on what it costs you
                      > plus your markup then you never have to make a major adjustment of
                      > prices which really upsets people.
                      > Just my 2 cents,
                      > Dave Allen
                      >
                      > irisnevins wrote:
                      >
                      > >I once again would like to find out what papers people are using for watercolor
                      marbling, acrylic too, but more for watercolor.
                      > >The good news is Natur Text is still available, the bad news is that it has gone up by
                      50 cents or so a sheet. At least I am glad I can still work! But I wonder if anyone has found
                      anything else that works and is under about $1.00 a sheet for 19 X 25 long grain
                      preferably. I hate to raise prices, but have had to by half the raise, I am absorbing the
                      other half.
                      > >Also, carrageenan is up again, it will likely work out to about a dollar a pound more. It
                      seems to rise every six months lately.
                      > >thanks,
                      > >Iris Nevins
                      > >
                      > >
                      > _____
                      > Beddall Bookbinding Conservation & Restoration
                      > 840 Snowdrop Avenue
                      > Victoria BC CANADA V8Z 2N4
                      > (250)888-9380
                      > http://www.bookbinder.ca/
                      >
                    • irisnevins
                      Yes, the old papers were thin, but from what I can gather they also marbled much smaller sheets as a rule. I find it unwieldy to manage a thin wet paper at
                      Message 10 of 20 , Nov 10, 2005
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                        Yes, the old papers were thin, but from what I can gather they also marbled much smaller sheets as a rule. I find it unwieldy to manage a thin wet paper at what is now the expected size of at least 17 1/2 X 22 1/2, and I use 19 X 25. It also thinned with burnishing. I wish I could just find a cheap good paper again!

                        I need to just raise at half for now, I will see how it goes. I already raised a year ago when I had to switch. Sorry for your troubles....I live in fear of ordering a ton of paper again that used to work and suddenly no longer does.

                        Dave, you are right, but maybe with yet more investigation I can find a less expensive paper that works. I will have to buy 100,000 sheets just to have around!!! I like the Natur Text though.....really like it and so do my customers.

                        iris nevins
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:hamburgerbuntpapier@...>
                        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 3:56 PM
                        Subject: [Marbling] Re: paper prices up


                        Hi Dave,
                        I think you are right, absorbing increased prices only gives problems later on, when there
                        are more rises and you have to make up for them in one step. There are limits as to how
                        often and for which article you can raise prices, though... My catalogue prices usually keep
                        three or four years, with a somewhat tight feeling towards the end, while I adjust the
                        prices for specials as the need arises. This does nicely for me. It's a political decision
                        really.

                        As to paper: Hahnemühle has done something or other to what they call Nature Tex in the
                        US, making it unfit for all my sprinkeled techniques (while it continues to work well for
                        marbling and reasonably well for paste). They maintained, however, that they changed
                        nothing and that the faults were entirely on my side - until I sent them samples. That put
                        a full stop to our correspondence. As this has happened before with Hahnemühle, I
                        decided to find another base paper.
                        I have changed to Corolla Book by Fedrigoni. It's Italian, which means another import for
                        you in US in case they do not have a plant in AMerica. It is only slightly more expensive
                        than the Hahnemühle, but much more elegant, less fillers and less air in it compared to
                        the Nature Tex. I'm using the 90gms kind. Very suitable for restoration stuff! The old
                        papers were thin.

                        Susanne Krause



                        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, Dave Allen <canadian_bookbinder@y<mailto:canadian_bookbinder@y>...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Iris,
                        > II don't think you should absorb any of the increased cost of the paper.
                        > I always pass on the cost of materials directly to my clients and have
                        > never had a complaint when prices went up. Why should you absorb the cost?
                        > If you increase your prices a bit at a time based on what it costs you
                        > plus your markup then you never have to make a major adjustment of
                        > prices which really upsets people.
                        > Just my 2 cents,
                        > Dave Allen
                        >
                        > irisnevins wrote:
                        >
                        > >I once again would like to find out what papers people are using for watercolor
                        marbling, acrylic too, but more for watercolor.
                        > >The good news is Natur Text is still available, the bad news is that it has gone up by
                        50 cents or so a sheet. At least I am glad I can still work! But I wonder if anyone has found
                        anything else that works and is under about $1.00 a sheet for 19 X 25 long grain
                        preferably. I hate to raise prices, but have had to by half the raise, I am absorbing the
                        other half.
                        > >Also, carrageenan is up again, it will likely work out to about a dollar a pound more. It
                        seems to rise every six months lately.
                        > >thanks,
                        > >Iris Nevins
                        > >
                        > >
                        > _____
                        > Beddall Bookbinding Conservation & Restoration
                        > 840 Snowdrop Avenue
                        > Victoria BC CANADA V8Z 2N4
                        > (250)888-9380
                        > http://www.bookbinder.ca/<http://www.bookbinder.ca/>
                        >








                        Yahoo! Groups Links









                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • hamburgerbuntpapier_de
                        I cannot lay hands on the formula right now, but if I remember correctly,1 inch answers to about 2,5 cm. I am using 50 x 70cm sheets, as do many European
                        Message 11 of 20 , Nov 11, 2005
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                          I cannot lay hands on the formula right now, but if I remember correctly,1 inch answers to
                          about 2,5 cm. I am using 50 x 70cm sheets, as do many European marbling professionals.
                          That would be 20 x 28 inches. It works without problems and torn corners, even when
                          carrying the sheet by its ears to the drying rack and even with dribbled patterns weighing
                          about a ton when wet.
                          Yes, many of the old sheets were smaller, at least in Europe - e.g. 48 x 63cm (19,2 x
                          25,2inches), 43 x 61 cm (17,2 x 24,4inches) or 33 x 45cm (13,2 x 18inches).

                          I do not know the least about markets in America, but is it really so bad to raise the price
                          by those few cents per sheet? Or make a calculation that leaves a reserve? After all, the
                          bulk of our prices is not materials (except with hand made base paper, of course), it is our
                          work. Or do you make your prices another way?
                          If you have found a base paper that's the answer to the marbler's prayer - use it (except,
                          again, if it's hand made or whatever for several $ per sheet). Finding the right materials is
                          part of our work. A person cannot do first class work with second class materials, and first
                          class materials in this case is what is the most suitable for the task, which doesn't
                          necessarily mean the most expensive. There are cases when the cheapest is the best.

                          And yes, the search for the best base paper of all is a never ending one. Like you, Iris, I
                          have had the dubious pleasure to find myself saddled with 2000 sheets that did not work
                          as they had before. Like you, I found a way out. Like you, I hold my breath that this may
                          happen again. But does it help? No, we're too small fish in the paper factories' ponds.

                          Susanne krause

                          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@v...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Yes, the old papers were thin, but from what I can gather they also marbled much
                          smaller sheets as a rule. I find it unwieldy to manage a thin wet paper at what is now the
                          expected size of at least 17 1/2 X 22 1/2, and I use 19 X 25. It also thinned with
                          burnishing. I wish I could just find a cheap good paper again!
                          >
                          > I need to just raise at half for now, I will see how it goes. I already raised a year ago
                          when I had to switch. Sorry for your troubles....I live in fear of ordering a ton of paper
                          again that used to work and suddenly no longer does.
                          >
                          > Dave, you are right, but maybe with yet more investigation I can find a less expensive
                          paper that works. I will have to buy 100,000 sheets just to have around!!! I like the Natur
                          Text though.....really like it and so do my customers.
                          >
                          > iris nevins
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:hamburgerbuntpapier@t...>
                          > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 3:56 PM
                          > Subject: [Marbling] Re: paper prices up
                          >
                          >
                          > Hi Dave,
                          > I think you are right, absorbing increased prices only gives problems later on, when
                          there
                          > are more rises and you have to make up for them in one step. There are limits as to
                          how
                          > often and for which article you can raise prices, though... My catalogue prices usually
                          keep
                          > three or four years, with a somewhat tight feeling towards the end, while I adjust the
                          > prices for specials as the need arises. This does nicely for me. It's a political decision
                          > really.
                          >
                          > As to paper: Hahnemühle has done something or other to what they call Nature Tex in
                          the
                          > US, making it unfit for all my sprinkeled techniques (while it continues to work well for
                          > marbling and reasonably well for paste). They maintained, however, that they changed
                          > nothing and that the faults were entirely on my side - until I sent them samples. That
                          put
                          > a full stop to our correspondence. As this has happened before with Hahnemühle, I
                          > decided to find another base paper.
                          > I have changed to Corolla Book by Fedrigoni. It's Italian, which means another import
                          for
                          > you in US in case they do not have a plant in AMerica. It is only slightly more expensive
                          > than the Hahnemühle, but much more elegant, less fillers and less air in it compared to
                          > the Nature Tex. I'm using the 90gms kind. Very suitable for restoration stuff! The old
                          > papers were thin.
                          >
                          > Susanne Krause
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, Dave Allen
                          <canadian_bookbinder@y<mailto:canadian_bookbinder@y>...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Iris,
                          > > II don't think you should absorb any of the increased cost of the paper.
                          > > I always pass on the cost of materials directly to my clients and have
                          > > never had a complaint when prices went up. Why should you absorb the cost?
                          > > If you increase your prices a bit at a time based on what it costs you
                          > > plus your markup then you never have to make a major adjustment of
                          > > prices which really upsets people.
                          > > Just my 2 cents,
                          > > Dave Allen
                          > >
                          > > irisnevins wrote:
                          > >
                          > > >I once again would like to find out what papers people are using for watercolor
                          > marbling, acrylic too, but more for watercolor.
                          > > >The good news is Natur Text is still available, the bad news is that it has gone up
                          by
                          > 50 cents or so a sheet. At least I am glad I can still work! But I wonder if anyone has
                          found
                          > anything else that works and is under about $1.00 a sheet for 19 X 25 long grain
                          > preferably. I hate to raise prices, but have had to by half the raise, I am absorbing the
                          > other half.
                          > > >Also, carrageenan is up again, it will likely work out to about a dollar a pound
                          more. It
                          > seems to rise every six months lately.
                          > > >thanks,
                          > > >Iris Nevins
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > _____
                          > > Beddall Bookbinding Conservation & Restoration
                          > > 840 Snowdrop Avenue
                          > > Victoria BC CANADA V8Z 2N4
                          > > (250)888-9380
                          > > http://www.bookbinder.ca/<http://www.bookbinder.ca/>
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • irisnevins
                          Well, I was told if I order enough...I think it was maybe 20,000 sheets, I could get the old formula of Classic Linen. I don t know where I d put them all!!
                          Message 12 of 20 , Nov 11, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Well, I was told if I order enough...I think it was maybe 20,000 sheets, I could get the old formula of Classic Linen. I don't know where I'd put them all!! It may actually be very cheap at that rate in fact though. Or could they have said 200,000! I don't even remember! Can you imagine though if they SAY it is old formula and you get it and it doesn't marble....nightmare!

                            My instinct says a little price rise now, then another maybe six months later. I like to follow my gut in most everything.

                            Iris
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:hamburgerbuntpapier@...>
                            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 2:02 PM
                            Subject: [Marbling] Re: paper prices up


                            I cannot lay hands on the formula right now, but if I remember correctly,1 inch answers to
                            about 2,5 cm. I am using 50 x 70cm sheets, as do many European marbling professionals.
                            That would be 20 x 28 inches. It works without problems and torn corners, even when
                            carrying the sheet by its ears to the drying rack and even with dribbled patterns weighing
                            about a ton when wet.
                            Yes, many of the old sheets were smaller, at least in Europe - e.g. 48 x 63cm (19,2 x
                            25,2inches), 43 x 61 cm (17,2 x 24,4inches) or 33 x 45cm (13,2 x 18inches).

                            I do not know the least about markets in America, but is it really so bad to raise the price
                            by those few cents per sheet? Or make a calculation that leaves a reserve? After all, the
                            bulk of our prices is not materials (except with hand made base paper, of course), it is our
                            work. Or do you make your prices another way?
                            If you have found a base paper that's the answer to the marbler's prayer - use it (except,
                            again, if it's hand made or whatever for several $ per sheet). Finding the right materials is
                            part of our work. A person cannot do first class work with second class materials, and first
                            class materials in this case is what is the most suitable for the task, which doesn't
                            necessarily mean the most expensive. There are cases when the cheapest is the best.

                            And yes, the search for the best base paper of all is a never ending one. Like you, Iris, I
                            have had the dubious pleasure to find myself saddled with 2000 sheets that did not work
                            as they had before. Like you, I found a way out. Like you, I hold my breath that this may
                            happen again. But does it help? No, we're too small fish in the paper factories' ponds.

                            Susanne krause

                            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@v<mailto:irisnevins@v>...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Yes, the old papers were thin, but from what I can gather they also marbled much
                            smaller sheets as a rule. I find it unwieldy to manage a thin wet paper at what is now the
                            expected size of at least 17 1/2 X 22 1/2, and I use 19 X 25. It also thinned with
                            burnishing. I wish I could just find a cheap good paper again!
                            >
                            > I need to just raise at half for now, I will see how it goes. I already raised a year ago
                            when I had to switch. Sorry for your troubles....I live in fear of ordering a ton of paper
                            again that used to work and suddenly no longer does.
                            >
                            > Dave, you are right, but maybe with yet more investigation I can find a less expensive
                            paper that works. I will have to buy 100,000 sheets just to have around!!! I like the Natur
                            Text though.....really like it and so do my customers.
                            >
                            > iris nevins
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:hamburgerbuntpapier@t<mailto:hamburgerbuntpapier@t>...>
                            > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
                            > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 3:56 PM
                            > Subject: [Marbling] Re: paper prices up
                            >
                            >
                            > Hi Dave,
                            > I think you are right, absorbing increased prices only gives problems later on, when
                            there
                            > are more rises and you have to make up for them in one step. There are limits as to
                            how
                            > often and for which article you can raise prices, though... My catalogue prices usually
                            keep
                            > three or four years, with a somewhat tight feeling towards the end, while I adjust the
                            > prices for specials as the need arises. This does nicely for me. It's a political decision
                            > really.
                            >
                            > As to paper: Hahnemühle has done something or other to what they call Nature Tex in
                            the
                            > US, making it unfit for all my sprinkeled techniques (while it continues to work well for
                            > marbling and reasonably well for paste). They maintained, however, that they changed
                            > nothing and that the faults were entirely on my side - until I sent them samples. That
                            put
                            > a full stop to our correspondence. As this has happened before with Hahnemühle, I
                            > decided to find another base paper.
                            > I have changed to Corolla Book by Fedrigoni. It's Italian, which means another import
                            for
                            > you in US in case they do not have a plant in AMerica. It is only slightly more expensive
                            > than the Hahnemühle, but much more elegant, less fillers and less air in it compared to
                            > the Nature Tex. I'm using the 90gms kind. Very suitable for restoration stuff! The old
                            > papers were thin.
                            >
                            > Susanne Krause
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>, Dave Allen
                            <canadian_bookbinder@y<mailto:canadian_bookbinder@y<mailto:canadian_bookbinder@y<mailto:canadian_bookbinder@y>>...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Iris,
                            > > II don't think you should absorb any of the increased cost of the paper.
                            > > I always pass on the cost of materials directly to my clients and have
                            > > never had a complaint when prices went up. Why should you absorb the cost?
                            > > If you increase your prices a bit at a time based on what it costs you
                            > > plus your markup then you never have to make a major adjustment of
                            > > prices which really upsets people.
                            > > Just my 2 cents,
                            > > Dave Allen
                            > >
                            > > irisnevins wrote:
                            > >
                            > > >I once again would like to find out what papers people are using for watercolor
                            > marbling, acrylic too, but more for watercolor.
                            > > >The good news is Natur Text is still available, the bad news is that it has gone up
                            by
                            > 50 cents or so a sheet. At least I am glad I can still work! But I wonder if anyone has
                            found
                            > anything else that works and is under about $1.00 a sheet for 19 X 25 long grain
                            > preferably. I hate to raise prices, but have had to by half the raise, I am absorbing the
                            > other half.
                            > > >Also, carrageenan is up again, it will likely work out to about a dollar a pound
                            more. It
                            > seems to rise every six months lately.
                            > > >thanks,
                            > > >Iris Nevins
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > _____
                            > > Beddall Bookbinding Conservation & Restoration
                            > > 840 Snowdrop Avenue
                            > > Victoria BC CANADA V8Z 2N4
                            > > (250)888-9380
                            > > http://www.bookbinder.ca/<http://www.bookbinder.ca/<http://www.bookbinder.ca/<http://www.bookbinder.ca/>>
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >









                            Yahoo! Groups Links








                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • susanne martin
                            Iris, have you thought about being an American source of paper, buying the huge amounts and reselling to other marblers - a big flaw in this is that it would
                            Message 13 of 20 , Nov 12, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Iris, have you thought about being an American source of paper, buying the
                              huge amounts and reselling to other marblers - a big flaw in this is that it
                              would take time from marbling!

                              Susanne


                              >From: "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...>
                              >Reply-To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                              >To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                              >Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: paper prices up
                              >Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 20:11:59 -0500
                              >
                              >Yes, the old papers were thin, but from what I can gather they also marbled
                              >much smaller sheets as a rule. I find it unwieldy to manage a thin wet
                              >paper at what is now the expected size of at least 17 1/2 X 22 1/2, and I
                              >use 19 X 25. It also thinned with burnishing. I wish I could just find a
                              >cheap good paper again!
                              >
                              >I need to just raise at half for now, I will see how it goes. I already
                              >raised a year ago when I had to switch. Sorry for your troubles....I live
                              >in fear of ordering a ton of paper again that used to work and suddenly no
                              >longer does.
                              >
                              >Dave, you are right, but maybe with yet more investigation I can find a
                              >less expensive paper that works. I will have to buy 100,000 sheets just to
                              >have around!!! I like the Natur Text though.....really like it and so do my
                              >customers.
                              >
                              >iris nevins
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:hamburgerbuntpapier@...>
                              > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 3:56 PM
                              > Subject: [Marbling] Re: paper prices up
                              >
                              >
                              > Hi Dave,
                              > I think you are right, absorbing increased prices only gives problems
                              >later on, when there
                              > are more rises and you have to make up for them in one step. There are
                              >limits as to how
                              > often and for which article you can raise prices, though... My catalogue
                              >prices usually keep
                              > three or four years, with a somewhat tight feeling towards the end,
                              >while I adjust the
                              > prices for specials as the need arises. This does nicely for me. It's a
                              >political decision
                              > really.
                              >
                              > As to paper: Hahnem�hle has done something or other to what they call
                              >Nature Tex in the
                              > US, making it unfit for all my sprinkeled techniques (while it continues
                              >to work well for
                              > marbling and reasonably well for paste). They maintained, however, that
                              >they changed
                              > nothing and that the faults were entirely on my side - until I sent them
                              >samples. That put
                              > a full stop to our correspondence. As this has happened before with
                              >Hahnem�hle, I
                              > decided to find another base paper.
                              > I have changed to Corolla Book by Fedrigoni. It's Italian, which means
                              >another import for
                              > you in US in case they do not have a plant in AMerica. It is only
                              >slightly more expensive
                              > than the Hahnem�hle, but much more elegant, less fillers and less air in
                              >it compared to
                              > the Nature Tex. I'm using the 90gms kind. Very suitable for restoration
                              >stuff! The old
                              > papers were thin.
                              >
                              > Susanne Krause
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, Dave
                              >Allen <canadian_bookbinder@y<mailto:canadian_bookbinder@y>...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Iris,
                              > > II don't think you should absorb any of the increased cost of the
                              >paper.
                              > > I always pass on the cost of materials directly to my clients and have
                              > > never had a complaint when prices went up. Why should you absorb the
                              >cost?
                              > > If you increase your prices a bit at a time based on what it costs you
                              > > plus your markup then you never have to make a major adjustment of
                              > > prices which really upsets people.
                              > > Just my 2 cents,
                              > > Dave Allen
                              > >
                              > > irisnevins wrote:
                              > >
                              > > >I once again would like to find out what papers people are using for
                              >watercolor
                              > marbling, acrylic too, but more for watercolor.
                              > > >The good news is Natur Text is still available, the bad news is that
                              >it has gone up by
                              > 50 cents or so a sheet. At least I am glad I can still work! But I
                              >wonder if anyone has found
                              > anything else that works and is under about $1.00 a sheet for 19 X 25
                              >long grain
                              > preferably. I hate to raise prices, but have had to by half the raise, I
                              >am absorbing the
                              > other half.
                              > > >Also, carrageenan is up again, it will likely work out to about a
                              >dollar a pound more. It
                              > seems to rise every six months lately.
                              > > >thanks,
                              > > >Iris Nevins
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > _____
                              > > Beddall Bookbinding Conservation & Restoration
                              > > 840 Snowdrop Avenue
                              > > Victoria BC CANADA V8Z 2N4
                              > > (250)888-9380
                              > > http://www.bookbinder.ca/<http://www.bookbinder.ca/>
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • irisnevins
                              I already do offer them for sale, Natur Text and Ingres. Not many buy it, so I figure they have something else that works for them, but I can t make much
                              Message 14 of 20 , Nov 12, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I already do offer them for sale, Natur Text and Ingres. Not many buy it, so I figure they have something else that works for them, but I can't make much paper work at all. I guess I could find some bad old pulpy acidy paper again, but this paper is just so nice and is archival. The problem is the comercial mills use the CC as filler, up to 50% instead of wood pulp, it's a lot cheaper and they get to claim they have gone acid free. Lots of problems with it.

                                Whatever.....it's not the end of the world,at least some papers still work!
                                iris nevins
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: susanne martin<mailto:alavee15@...>
                                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 9:16 AM
                                Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: paper prices up


                                Iris, have you thought about being an American source of paper, buying the
                                huge amounts and reselling to other marblers - a big flaw in this is that it
                                would take time from marbling!

                                Susanne


                                >From: "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...<mailto:irisnevins@...>>
                                >Reply-To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                                >To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
                                >Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: paper prices up
                                >Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 20:11:59 -0500
                                >
                                >Yes, the old papers were thin, but from what I can gather they also marbled
                                >much smaller sheets as a rule. I find it unwieldy to manage a thin wet
                                >paper at what is now the expected size of at least 17 1/2 X 22 1/2, and I
                                >use 19 X 25. It also thinned with burnishing. I wish I could just find a
                                >cheap good paper again!
                                >
                                >I need to just raise at half for now, I will see how it goes. I already
                                >raised a year ago when I had to switch. Sorry for your troubles....I live
                                >in fear of ordering a ton of paper again that used to work and suddenly no
                                >longer does.
                                >
                                >Dave, you are right, but maybe with yet more investigation I can find a
                                >less expensive paper that works. I will have to buy 100,000 sheets just to
                                >have around!!! I like the Natur Text though.....really like it and so do my
                                >customers.
                                >
                                >iris nevins
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:hamburgerbuntpapier@...<mailto:hamburgerbuntpapier@...>>
                                > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
                                > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 3:56 PM
                                > Subject: [Marbling] Re: paper prices up
                                >
                                >
                                > Hi Dave,
                                > I think you are right, absorbing increased prices only gives problems
                                >later on, when there
                                > are more rises and you have to make up for them in one step. There are
                                >limits as to how
                                > often and for which article you can raise prices, though... My catalogue
                                >prices usually keep
                                > three or four years, with a somewhat tight feeling towards the end,
                                >while I adjust the
                                > prices for specials as the need arises. This does nicely for me. It's a
                                >political decision
                                > really.
                                >
                                > As to paper: Hahnemühle has done something or other to what they call
                                >Nature Tex in the
                                > US, making it unfit for all my sprinkeled techniques (while it continues
                                >to work well for
                                > marbling and reasonably well for paste). They maintained, however, that
                                >they changed
                                > nothing and that the faults were entirely on my side - until I sent them
                                >samples. That put
                                > a full stop to our correspondence. As this has happened before with
                                >Hahnemühle, I
                                > decided to find another base paper.
                                > I have changed to Corolla Book by Fedrigoni. It's Italian, which means
                                >another import for
                                > you in US in case they do not have a plant in AMerica. It is only
                                >slightly more expensive
                                > than the Hahnemühle, but much more elegant, less fillers and less air in
                                >it compared to
                                > the Nature Tex. I'm using the 90gms kind. Very suitable for restoration
                                >stuff! The old
                                > papers were thin.
                                >
                                > Susanne Krause
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>, Dave
                                >Allen <canadian_bookbinder@y<mailto:canadian_bookbinder@y<mailto:canadian_bookbinder@y<mailto:canadian_bookbinder@y>>...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Iris,
                                > > II don't think you should absorb any of the increased cost of the
                                >paper.
                                > > I always pass on the cost of materials directly to my clients and have
                                > > never had a complaint when prices went up. Why should you absorb the
                                >cost?
                                > > If you increase your prices a bit at a time based on what it costs you
                                > > plus your markup then you never have to make a major adjustment of
                                > > prices which really upsets people.
                                > > Just my 2 cents,
                                > > Dave Allen
                                > >
                                > > irisnevins wrote:
                                > >
                                > > >I once again would like to find out what papers people are using for
                                >watercolor
                                > marbling, acrylic too, but more for watercolor.
                                > > >The good news is Natur Text is still available, the bad news is that
                                >it has gone up by
                                > 50 cents or so a sheet. At least I am glad I can still work! But I
                                >wonder if anyone has found
                                > anything else that works and is under about $1.00 a sheet for 19 X 25
                                >long grain
                                > preferably. I hate to raise prices, but have had to by half the raise, I
                                >am absorbing the
                                > other half.
                                > > >Also, carrageenan is up again, it will likely work out to about a
                                >dollar a pound more. It
                                > seems to rise every six months lately.
                                > > >thanks,
                                > > >Iris Nevins
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > _____
                                > > Beddall Bookbinding Conservation & Restoration
                                > > 840 Snowdrop Avenue
                                > > Victoria BC CANADA V8Z 2N4
                                > > (250)888-9380
                                > > http://www.bookbinder.ca/<http://www.bookbinder.ca/<http://www.bookbinder.ca/<http://www.bookbinder.ca/>>
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >






                                Yahoo! Groups Links









                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • hamburgerbuntpapier_de
                                Ooooooh yes. That s just what they suggested to me when I insisted something was not as it has been before (and they maintained i was wrong). When you order a
                                Message 15 of 20 , Nov 12, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Ooooooh yes. That's just what they suggested to me when I insisted something was not as
                                  it has been before (and they maintained i was wrong). When you order a ton, we can do
                                  whatever you want... That would be about 20.000 sheets 70 x 100cm. But I do not have an
                                  extra house to house a ton of paper!

                                  Susanne Krause

                                  --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@v...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Well, I was told if I order enough...I think it was maybe 20,000 sheets, I could get the
                                  old formula of Classic Linen. I don't know where I'd put them all!! It may actually be very
                                  cheap at that rate in fact though. Or could they have said 200,000! I don't even remember!
                                  Can you imagine though if they SAY it is old formula and you get it and it doesn't
                                  marble....nightmare!
                                  >
                                  > My instinct says a little price rise now, then another maybe six months later. I like to
                                  follow my gut in most everything.
                                  >
                                  > Iris
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:hamburgerbuntpapier@t...>
                                  > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 2:02 PM
                                  > Subject: [Marbling] Re: paper prices up
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I cannot lay hands on the formula right now, but if I remember correctly,1 inch answers
                                  to
                                  > about 2,5 cm. I am using 50 x 70cm sheets, as do many European marbling
                                  professionals.
                                  > That would be 20 x 28 inches. It works without problems and torn corners, even when
                                  > carrying the sheet by its ears to the drying rack and even with dribbled patterns
                                  weighing
                                  > about a ton when wet.
                                  > Yes, many of the old sheets were smaller, at least in Europe - e.g. 48 x 63cm (19,2 x
                                  > 25,2inches), 43 x 61 cm (17,2 x 24,4inches) or 33 x 45cm (13,2 x 18inches).
                                  >
                                  > I do not know the least about markets in America, but is it really so bad to raise the
                                  price
                                  > by those few cents per sheet? Or make a calculation that leaves a reserve? After all, the
                                  > bulk of our prices is not materials (except with hand made base paper, of course), it is
                                  our
                                  > work. Or do you make your prices another way?
                                  > If you have found a base paper that's the answer to the marbler's prayer - use it
                                  (except,
                                  > again, if it's hand made or whatever for several $ per sheet). Finding the right materials
                                  is
                                  > part of our work. A person cannot do first class work with second class materials, and
                                  first
                                  > class materials in this case is what is the most suitable for the task, which doesn't
                                  > necessarily mean the most expensive. There are cases when the cheapest is the best.
                                  >
                                  > And yes, the search for the best base paper of all is a never ending one. Like you, Iris, I
                                  > have had the dubious pleasure to find myself saddled with 2000 sheets that did not
                                  work
                                  > as they had before. Like you, I found a way out. Like you, I hold my breath that this
                                  may
                                  > happen again. But does it help? No, we're too small fish in the paper factories' ponds.
                                  >
                                  > Susanne krause
                                  >
                                  > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "irisnevins"
                                  <irisnevins@v<mailto:irisnevins@v>...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Yes, the old papers were thin, but from what I can gather they also marbled much
                                  > smaller sheets as a rule. I find it unwieldy to manage a thin wet paper at what is now
                                  the
                                  > expected size of at least 17 1/2 X 22 1/2, and I use 19 X 25. It also thinned with
                                  > burnishing. I wish I could just find a cheap good paper again!
                                  > >
                                  > > I need to just raise at half for now, I will see how it goes. I already raised a year ago
                                  > when I had to switch. Sorry for your troubles....I live in fear of ordering a ton of paper
                                  > again that used to work and suddenly no longer does.
                                  > >
                                  > > Dave, you are right, but maybe with yet more investigation I can find a less
                                  expensive
                                  > paper that works. I will have to buy 100,000 sheets just to have around!!! I like the
                                  Natur
                                  > Text though.....really like it and so do my customers.
                                  > >
                                  > > iris nevins
                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:hamburgerbuntpapier@t<mailto:
                                  hamburgerbuntpapier@t>...>
                                  > > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:
                                  Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
                                  > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 3:56 PM
                                  > > Subject: [Marbling] Re: paper prices up
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Hi Dave,
                                  > > I think you are right, absorbing increased prices only gives problems later on, when
                                  > there
                                  > > are more rises and you have to make up for them in one step. There are limits as to
                                  > how
                                  > > often and for which article you can raise prices, though... My catalogue prices
                                  usually
                                  > keep
                                  > > three or four years, with a somewhat tight feeling towards the end, while I adjust
                                  the
                                  > > prices for specials as the need arises. This does nicely for me. It's a political
                                  decision
                                  > > really.
                                  > >
                                  > > As to paper: Hahnemühle has done something or other to what they call Nature Tex
                                  in
                                  > the
                                  > > US, making it unfit for all my sprinkeled techniques (while it continues to work well
                                  for
                                  > > marbling and reasonably well for paste). They maintained, however, that they
                                  changed
                                  > > nothing and that the faults were entirely on my side - until I sent them samples.
                                  That
                                  > put
                                  > > a full stop to our correspondence. As this has happened before with Hahnemühle, I
                                  > > decided to find another base paper.
                                  > > I have changed to Corolla Book by Fedrigoni. It's Italian, which means another
                                  import
                                  > for
                                  > > you in US in case they do not have a plant in AMerica. It is only slightly more
                                  expensive
                                  > > than the Hahnemühle, but much more elegant, less fillers and less air in it
                                  compared to
                                  > > the Nature Tex. I'm using the 90gms kind. Very suitable for restoration stuff! The
                                  old
                                  > > papers were thin.
                                  > >
                                  > > Susanne Krause
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:
                                  Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>, Dave Allen
                                  > <canadian_bookbinder@y<mailto:canadian_bookbinder@y<mailto:
                                  canadian_bookbinder@y<mailto:canadian_bookbinder@y>>...> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Iris,
                                  > > > II don't think you should absorb any of the increased cost of the paper.
                                  > > > I always pass on the cost of materials directly to my clients and have
                                  > > > never had a complaint when prices went up. Why should you absorb the cost?
                                  > > > If you increase your prices a bit at a time based on what it costs you
                                  > > > plus your markup then you never have to make a major adjustment of
                                  > > > prices which really upsets people.
                                  > > > Just my 2 cents,
                                  > > > Dave Allen
                                  > > >
                                  > > > irisnevins wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > >I once again would like to find out what papers people are using for watercolor
                                  > > marbling, acrylic too, but more for watercolor.
                                  > > > >The good news is Natur Text is still available, the bad news is that it has gone
                                  up
                                  > by
                                  > > 50 cents or so a sheet. At least I am glad I can still work! But I wonder if anyone has
                                  > found
                                  > > anything else that works and is under about $1.00 a sheet for 19 X 25 long grain
                                  > > preferably. I hate to raise prices, but have had to by half the raise, I am absorbing
                                  the
                                  > > other half.
                                  > > > >Also, carrageenan is up again, it will likely work out to about a dollar a pound
                                  > more. It
                                  > > seems to rise every six months lately.
                                  > > > >thanks,
                                  > > > >Iris Nevins
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > _____
                                  > > > Beddall Bookbinding Conservation & Restoration
                                  > > > 840 Snowdrop Avenue
                                  > > > Victoria BC CANADA V8Z 2N4
                                  > > > (250)888-9380
                                  > > > http://www.bookbinder.ca/<http://www.bookbinder.ca/<http://
                                  www.bookbinder.ca/<http://www.bookbinder.ca/>>
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
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                                  > >
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                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
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