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Re: A new book

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  • jthandbook
    Thank you Jake for the heads up; I doubt I d have noticed THE ORIGINS OF VALUE otherwise. A pretty fascinating book aside from the marbling interest. Have you
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 8 4:02 PM
      Thank you Jake for the heads up; I doubt I'd have noticed THE ORIGINS OF VALUE otherwise.
      A pretty fascinating book aside from the marbling interest.
      Have you gotten a chance to check the authors' reference to Franklin's PAPERS? The
      arguments they put forward for the English origin of the wove paper and resist marbling
      strike me as a bit overstretched. I've not examined one of the Loan notes in person but from
      reproductions I don't see anything about them to support the claim of exceptionally high
      quality, rarity, or expense.
      It would be most curious if Franklin, having (according to Dard Hunter) introduced Paris to
      wove paper in 1777, had to smuggle it into France a few years later! And why would Franklin
      not have seen to its making and marbling in France and then later, for his experimental
      American money bills, Stateside? I'm hoping that you can set me straight on this.
      Now if only there were some way to get your talk for those of us unable to attend. Again my
      thanks and all best to you, James
    • Jake Benson
      Hi Jim, It turns out that we don t have Vol. 30 of the Papers of Benjamin Franklin here at USC. Hence I have to order it through ILL. Yet I think you are
      Message 2 of 4 , Sep 10 11:02 AM
        Hi Jim,

        It turns out that we don't have Vol. 30 of the Papers of Benjamin Franklin here at USC.
        Hence I have to order it through ILL. Yet I think you are asking a lot of very good
        questions.
        or if it was simply that "paper" , meaning the wove paper was smuggled, before it was
        marbled. the papers will hopefully have an answer to that if they are explicit or not. I
        think the paper may have been smuggled and then specially marbled in Paris (perhaps a
        special comission by Franklin of the successor to the marbling firm featured in the
        Encyclopedie of Diderot & d'Alembert?) then printed at Passy by Franklin before they were
        presented to the governent.

        The marbling is not an adhered strip of paper but directly marbled to the center of a long
        rectangular sheet, and blocked off likely using another piece of paper on the right and left
        halves. So the marbling is integral to the sheet that the loan was printed on. Then it was
        cut in an irregular manner into two halves that could be proven to positively match. I
        wonder if marbling is French Marbling on English paper. this treatment s so unusual, I
        have ahrd time thinking it was done in London to order in that manner. Also the pattern
        on the loan seems more like the papers seen in France at that time.

        As to whether the marbling on the bill notes is native manufacture, who knows? It will
        take a lot of study and research. The marbling is used in a different manner, and variant
        patterns are observed that are distinct from the loans, something the authors of the book
        seem to have failed to observe.

        In the past we have tended to lump the production of the loans together with the bill
        notes, but now I wonder if the loans were very specifically conjured up by Franklin at
        Passy... which led to some of the bill notes produced in a similar manner stateside. One
        bill note featuring a chevron pattern was printed by Benjamin Bache, Franklin's grandson.
        Others are not so explicit, so he may not have printed them all, but it has seemed likely,
        given the circumstances. Aside from the papers and patterns used for the notes, another
        feature that could be looked into is Franklin's penchant for designing the type for these
        projects. Franklins use of small tree leaves in the printing process as a security device is
        also remarkable. One wonders if a note combining marbling together with the leaves weer
        ever produced.

        I have never inspected of the bill notes or the loans in person, only the images in Wolfe's
        book. Those bills and the loan are kept at

        http://www.amphilsoc.org/library/

        Has anyone on the list seen these items firsthand and care to add to the discussion?

        Another billnote is up for sale at Denly's in Boston, which I posted a few months back.

        http://www.denlys.com/inventory/viewimage.asp?ID=CNT612

        As is so often the case, this publication may bring up more questions than answers, but it
        is still really nice to see the attention paid to the subject at all, and VERY full-page color
        images published.

        Jake


        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "jthandbook" <jthandbook@y...> wrote:
        > Thank you Jake for the heads up; I doubt I'd have noticed THE ORIGINS OF VALUE
        otherwise.
        > A pretty fascinating book aside from the marbling interest.
        > Have you gotten a chance to check the authors' reference to Franklin's PAPERS? The
        > arguments they put forward for the English origin of the wove paper and resist marbling
        > strike me as a bit overstretched. I've not examined one of the Loan notes in person but
        from reproductions I don't see anything about them to support the claim of exceptionally
        high quality, rarity, or expense.
        > It would be most curious if Franklin, having (according to Dard Hunter) introduced Paris
        to wove paper in 1777, had to smuggle it into France a few years later! And why would
        Franklin not have seen to its making and marbling in France and then later, for his
        experimental American money bills, Stateside? I'm hoping that you can set me straight on
        this.

        > Now if only there were some way to get your talk for those of us unable to attend. Again
        my thanks and all best to you, James
      • jthandbook
        Hello all... as it turns out the marbled Loan Notes produced by Franklin at Passy and held by the American Philosophical Society in Philadelphia are part of
        Message 3 of 4 , Sep 14 2:02 PM
          Hello all... as it turns out the marbled Loan Notes produced by Franklin at Passy and held by
          the American Philosophical Society in Philadelphia are part of the touring exhibition being put
          together for Franklin's 300th anniversary next year. To see them in person, information and
          your closest venue can be found online at benfranklin300.org.
          I have also learned that the Johannot papermakers at Annonay France were producing wove
          paper no later that 1778 and that by 1781 their paper was awarded a gold medal by the King.
          It is known that Franklin used laid paper produced by Johannot at his press at Passy, why not
          the wove? It seems a forensic analysis of the paper has not been done but is needed to
          answer the question of its origin.
          Best, James
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