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RE: [Marbling] Digest Number 925

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  • tomas viavant
    hello, my name is tomas DÀquin I have beenoil marbling for fifty yars, but only in the past fifteen have i tyried to do ny thing special. I do not marble
    Message 1 of 1 , May 1 1:27 PM
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      hello, my name is tomas D�quin I have beenoil marbling for fifty yars,
      but only in the past fifteen have i tyried to do ny thing special. I do not
      marble large3 sheets as the paints dry to fast on the water to make ny
      intricate designs. I do both primiytive figures and (fancy) designs.
      for many years i used enamels as my base paints; five or six years ggo
      i swy�itched to printing inks. check out my website for more details.
      www.oilonwater.com
      tomas


      >From: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      >Reply-To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      >To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [Marbling] Digest Number 925
      >Date: 29 Apr 2005 11:08:06 -0000
      >
      >
      >There are 5 messages in this issue.
      >
      >Topics in this digest:
      >
      > 1. query about drying agents
      > From: Ellen Tresselt <ntresselt@...>
      > 2. Re: query about drying agents
      > From: "Guffey" <dguff@...>
      > 3. Re: query about drying agents
      > From: paulhenrydesign@...
      > 4. Two Persian marbled penboxes up for sale at Christies TOMORROW
      > From: "Jake Benson" <handbindery@...>
      > 5. Image of Persian mirror cover from the Museum of Tehran
      > From: "Jake Benson" <handbindery@...>
      >
      >
      >________________________________________________________________________
      >________________________________________________________________________
      >
      >Message: 1
      > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 12:03:17 -0400
      > From: Ellen Tresselt <ntresselt@...>
      >Subject: query about drying agents
      >
      >Hello Everyone -- This is just a general query regarding drying agents
      >in oil color marbling. I am going to try some oil marbling -- no, I do
      >not have Dianne Maurer's book, or anyone else's for that matter, but
      >all I'm really looking for is to know what people might be using to
      >accelerate drying of oil marbled sheets. Thanks! Nelle Tresselt
      >
      >
      >
      >________________________________________________________________________
      >________________________________________________________________________
      >
      >Message: 2
      > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 10:04:49 -0700
      > From: "Guffey" <dguff@...>
      >Subject: Re: query about drying agents
      >
      >Ellen,
      >
      >The only advantage to oil marbling (as opposed to acrylic or water based
      >paints) is that you do not have to alum your pages. I haven't used oils
      >for 20 years, once I changed to acrylics, but I do have some memories to
      >contribute. Red is the slowest drying of all the pigments. I purchased
      >some Japan Dry from an art store which I added to the paint. I helped some
      >as I recall. If you stay away from reds you shouldn't have any trouble
      >with the colors drying on your papers.
      >
      >Oil marbling will have a much more "fuzzy" feel to it... the lines will not
      >be as sharp as with traditional marbling inks/paints. I always used paint
      >thinner (rather than turpentine) to dilute the oil paints. It is a very
      >messy to do and clean up, plus the odor. Another consideration in using
      >oil paints is that the colors permanent the papers, sometimes bleeding
      >through to the other side. Acrylics and water based colors adhere to the
      >alumed surface and do not bleed through.
      >
      >Hope this helps,
      >
      >d. guffey
      >
      >----- Original Message -----
      > From: Ellen Tresselt
      > To: Marbling
      > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 9:03 AM
      > Subject: [Marbling] query about drying agents
      >
      >
      > Hello Everyone -- This is just a general query regarding drying agents
      > in oil color marbling. I am going to try some oil marbling -- no, I do
      > not have Dianne Maurer's book, or anyone else's for that matter, but
      > all I'm really looking for is to know what people might be using to
      > accelerate drying of oil marbled sheets. Thanks! Nelle Tresselt
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >________________________________________________________________________
      >________________________________________________________________________
      >
      >Message: 3
      > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:55:28 EDT
      > From: paulhenrydesign@...
      >Subject: Re: query about drying agents
      >
      >a drop of "terebrine" thinners can work well, not sure what trade it might
      >go
      >under in the states. Oil marbling produces different effects,which is why I
      >work with both oil and water based colours, admitted they do smell more
      >than
      >the water based colours, but really they don;t take much longer to clean
      >up! I
      >always use a thinners instead of turpentine, it's nt as greasy and a lot
      >cheaper as well!
      >
      >paul
      >
      >
      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >________________________________________________________________________
      >________________________________________________________________________
      >
      >Message: 4
      > Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 01:31:19 -0000
      > From: "Jake Benson" <handbindery@...>
      >Subject: Two Persian marbled penboxes up for sale at Christies TOMORROW
      >
      >Hello everyone,
      >
      >Does anyone have a few thousand dollars to spare?
      >
      >I have just found out that two marbled and lacquered boxes will be sold
      >TOMORROW at
      >auction at Christies South Kensington location. The sale is for Indian and
      >Islamic Works of
      >art, sale number 5560, item numbers 473 and 474. The images are terrible,
      >but I can
      >assure you that it is what it says.
      >
      >Both examples are signed and dated by the artists. Other examples of these
      >masters work
      >have been published. The citations to both the publications are provied.
      >The catalog
      >"Lacquer of the Islamic lands" from the Nasser Khalili collection has
      >FABULOUS images of
      >delicately marbled penboxes.
      >
      ><http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/search/LotDetail.asp?
      >sid=&intObjectID=4490575&SE=CMWCAT03+1409449+%2D146727046+&QR=M+1+2+
      >Aqc0000900+1363675++Aqc0000900+&entry=marbled&T=Lot&P=&SR=All&MF=&DF=&
      >MT=&DT=&SU=1&ST=&RQ=False&AN=3>
      >
      > <http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/search/LotDetail.asp?
      >sid=&intObjectID=4490576&SE=CMWCAT03+1409449+%2D146727046+&QR=M+1+1+
      >Aqc0000900+1363675++Aqc0000900+&entry=marbled&T=Lot&P=&SR=All&MF=&DF=&
      >MT=&DT=&SU=1&ST=&RQ=False&AN=2>
      >
      >The subject of marbling in Iran has been sorely neglected in most marbling
      >literature,
      >though it is often in English language books that marbling was invented in
      >Persia, though
      >that can't be said for certain. The oldest Islamic marbling dates to
      >Cenrtal Asia, but then
      >seems to die out by the 17th century, with the downfall of the Shaybanid
      >Uzbek dynasty.
      >
      >It is also interesting to note that the term used to day in Iran is
      >abr-o-bad, which means
      >"Cloud and wind' in Persian. Abu Talib is credited with the invention of
      >this new style,
      >though I personally wonder if this can really be confirmed, as there is a
      >text from India
      >that seems to desribe a similar procedure.
      >
      > The term "abr-o bad" or "abru bad" is derived from a poem by the famous
      >Shirazi poet
      >Sadi, well before any marbling we know of from the region. So it was
      >likely just a poetic
      >reference, nothing more. Nevertheless, it offers a compelling new possible
      >angle on the
      >possible origin of the word "ebru' used in Turkey today. Is it a shortened
      >form of "abru-
      >bad", pronounced in a Turkish accent as a "ebru"?
      >
      >Older texts in Persian and Turkish all use the word abri, or ebri, not
      >ebru, and they are
      >spelled differently in arabic script, as ebri ends with the letter ya
      >(which the late Dr.
      >Annemarie Shimmel translated as "clouded" or "cloudy", used to describe the
      >paper- so
      >"clouded paper"). yet the words abru and ebru end with the letter vav, and
      >literally would
      >mean "cloud and..." dropping the word "bad" , meaning "air" or "wind". The
      >earliest use of
      >the term of "ebru" in refernce to marbling in Ottoman Turkish is in the
      >Ottoman dictionary
      >by Redhouse, from the turn of the 19th-20th century. If anyone knows
      >another earlier
      >source, please tell me where it has been published, as I have been looking
      >for a long
      >time...
      >
      >So is it possible that there is a connection between marbling in Iran in
      >the 19th century
      >and the tradition of the Uzbeler tekke in Istanbul? Many have claimed that
      >the tradition
      >was derived from Naqshibandi Sufis in Bukhara, but this has never been
      >confirmed, and
      >very little evidence of marbling there at such a late date has yet to be
      >found (much any
      >less Naqshibandi sufi making such papers, despite it being a very popular
      >notion).
      >
      >Who knows? the evidence may be there, lurking, waiting to be found on a
      >dusty library
      >shelf. People simply have to take a little bit of time to look for it.
      >Ironically, I posted a link
      >a few months ago to a mirror-case in the National Museum of Iran, but the
      >web site has
      >now unfortunately vanished. So catch the sights while you can!
      >
      >So many points to ponder over! I wonder what we'll find next month...
      >
      >enjoy!
      >
      >Jake Benson
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >________________________________________________________________________
      >________________________________________________________________________
      >
      >Message: 5
      > Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 02:29:04 -0000
      > From: "Jake Benson" <handbindery@...>
      >Subject: Image of Persian mirror cover from the Museum of Tehran
      >
      >Hello again,
      >
      >I mentioned in my last post a marbled mirror cover that had been on the
      >web site for the
      >National Museum of Iran in Tehran that has since disappeared. Since I had
      >the image, I
      >have now placed it in the the photo section of the group web site.
      >
      ><http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/marbling/lst?&.dir=/
      >Images+of+historic+marbling/Iran&.src=gr&.view=t&.url=http%3a//us.f1.yahoofs.com/
      >groups/g_412943/Images%2bof%2bhistoric%2bmarbling/Iran/
      >Marbled%252blacquered%2bMirror%2bcase.jpg%3fbc8k5bxBPjYZvY0J&.cx=150&.cy=112&.
      >type=u>
      >
      >While I was at it, I went ahead and created a new folder for images of
      >historic marbling,
      >and have created sub-folders inside for a few different countries. It's
      >just a start, and
      >more folders can be added as pieces are found. I encourage any and all of
      >you, as you
      >find images of historic examples, to post them there.
      >
      >We are responsible for recognizing and documenting the history of our art.
      >No one else
      >will do it for us. We are familiar with marbling and can readily identify
      >examples far more
      >easily than others. In doing so, we help to educate ourselves and the
      >public in general
      >about marbling. Hopefully, it increses an interest in it, and it certainly
      >does have a very
      >fascinating history that is not well understood, even by ourselves.
      >
      >Educating the public also means that we are educating our potential market.
      > Showing
      >such examples in workshops, classes, and lectures informs people about
      >marbling as
      >something desirable and valuable, and that in turn encourages collection.
      >So PLEASE don't
      >dismiss this is just a dry topic for long-winded scholars, curators, and
      >academics. There's
      >actually some very real economic incentives to spend a few minutes
      >researching
      >collections at a local library or museum. Many Curators often really
      >appreciate the help of
      >a "genuine marbler" to idnetify examples in their collection. So don't be
      >shy. All you have
      >to do is ask to spend a few minutes. Not only libraries have these
      >materials, for now we
      >know that scientific instruments, wallpapers, mats and mounts, clothing and
      >accessories,
      >musical instrument cases, and even furniture have emplyed marbling in
      >different countries
      >in the past. We all make mistakes in our identifications along the way of
      >course, as we
      >are only human, but at least we have done our part to get the "marble"
      >rollling. Who
      >knows what lies in the stacks, gathering dust, waiting to be discovered?
      >
      >Personally, I'm constantly amazed when "new" finds of old pieces emerge.
      >Unusual
      >patterns, unique designs, and even unknown floral motifs have been found in
      >recent years.
      >When such examples come to light, it challenges us to re-think the many
      >pre-conceived
      >notions that we have held about marbling history. Marbling history is an
      >continually
      >evolving subject, and very little seems to be "set in stone", to make
      >another bad pun...
      >
      >So, Happy hunting!
      >
      >Jake
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >________________________________________________________________________
      >________________________________________________________________________
      >
      >
      >
      >------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >
      >
      >
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