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Re: [Marbling] best paper for marbling?

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  • IRIS NEVINS
    Call Atlantic Papers in PA....get something called Natur Text....works well, but not very thin, about 120grams or approx. 70-75 text weight American.It s
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 18 12:19 PM
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      Call Atlantic Papers in PA....get something called Natur Text....works well, but not very thin, about 120grams or approx. 70-75 text weight American.It's German.

      Almost all Amercan papers now use the Calcium Carbonate as a filler as well as a buffer, because it is cheaper than wood pulp. It's all about money, it ruins the papers for marbling unfortunately.

      iris nevins


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: carolevhoof<mailto:carolevanderhoof@...>
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 2:20 PM
      Subject: [Marbling] best paper for marbling?




      I'm doing watercolor marbling reproductions of antique endpapers for
      bookbinding & I need a source of a thin paper that will withstand the
      process, and accept the watercolor...it seems like everything is too
      buffered now to take the color well.







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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • G. Dixon
      Mohawk vellum (89 grams) and Cranes Crest laid or wove (48 grams although only 17 X 23 inches) are thinner papers that have worked well for me - available from
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 18 8:02 PM
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        Mohawk vellum (89 grams) and Cranes Crest laid or wove (48 grams although only 17 X 23 inches) are thinner papers that have worked well for me - available from New York Central.
        Garrett Dixon
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: carolevhoof
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 2:20 PM
        Subject: [Marbling] best paper for marbling?



        I'm doing watercolor marbling reproductions of antique endpapers for
        bookbinding & I need a source of a thin paper that will withstand the
        process, and accept the watercolor...it seems like everything is too
        buffered now to take the color well.




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      • IRIS NEVINS
        Hi Garrett.....have you used these papers recently? Are they still working, or does NYCentral have old stock? I have had no luck with any Mohawks since the
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 19 5:52 AM
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          Hi Garrett.....have you used these papers recently? Are they still working, or does NYCentral have old stock? I have had no luck with any Mohawks since the 'old days'......decades maybe.

          I think too, if they do work you could buy cartons direct from a supplier a lot cheaper per 1000.

          For the marbling journal I have a list of 'acid' (don't worry, just mildly!) papers that in theory may work, though I have not tested them. The trouble with getting test sheets, as I learned last year with the Permalin nightmare, is they may send you samples/booklets cut from old stock that used to work.....when you get your carton ordered you must be really specific about wanting the lot the test sheets were from.....still this is no guarantee, Permalin promised me, then someone else from the company said "we can't guarantee that".....I had it in writing too....didn't do much good. I managed to make them pay me back for half, I donated the rest for a tax deduction. 3000 sheets worth!

          Be really careful out there! I hope they continue to work for you. I am paying more now but deal with a smaller company and smaller mill, and they will inform me of any changes, and if it means having a run of papers made by the old formula, so be it....I would order the 10,000 or so required sheets for a run. Have to keep marbling. I like the Natur Text, but it is medium weight. I don't have anyone complaining about it though, so binders seem to like it.

          Iris Nevins
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: G. Dixon<mailto:gdixon@...>
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 11:02 PM
          Subject: Re: [Marbling] best paper for marbling?



          Mohawk vellum (89 grams) and Cranes Crest laid or wove (48 grams although only 17 X 23 inches) are thinner papers that have worked well for me - available from New York Central.
          Garrett Dixon
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: carolevhoof
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 2:20 PM
          Subject: [Marbling] best paper for marbling?



          I'm doing watercolor marbling reproductions of antique endpapers for
          bookbinding & I need a source of a thin paper that will withstand the
          process, and accept the watercolor...it seems like everything is too
          buffered now to take the color well.




          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          ADVERTISEMENT





          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling/>

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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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        • Caroline Tigeress
          I like stonehenge myself, I do a lot of acrylic marbling, and it stands up to both marbling and overmarbling. ...
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 19 8:28 AM
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            I like stonehenge myself, I do a lot of acrylic marbling, and it stands
            up to both marbling and overmarbling.

            carolevhoof wrote:

            >I'm doing watercolor marbling reproductions of antique endpapers for
            >bookbinding & I need a source of a thin paper that will withstand the
            >process, and accept the watercolor...it seems like everything is too
            >buffered now to take the color well.
            >
            >



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          • G. Dixon
            Hello Iris, I purchased some Mohawk vellum within the past month from NY Central, although I don t know how old it is, it took up the paint without difficulty,
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 19 6:16 PM
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              Hello Iris,
              I purchased some Mohawk vellum within the past month from NY Central, although I don't know how old it is, it took up the paint without difficulty, using aluminum sulfate at 1:10, that is 10 grams of alum for every 100 ml water. The sheets were dry, which is my preferred way to marble. I don't care for the paper - prefer Cranes Crest for a sturdy, lightweight paper, although it is more expensive and the sheets are smaller than ideal.
              I have been experimenting with aluminum acetate as an alternative to aluminum sulfate. Joseph Halfer wrote that it was superior to aluminum sulfate, and it does appear to work well for me - dissolves easier and stays in solution better. It is considerably more expensive than regular alum (although it will work at a 1:40 dilution for paints, 1:20 dilution for metallics which brings it closer to the cost of aluminum sulfate). It is less acidic than aluminum sulfate, and of course, avoids the sulfate residual. I must wait until summer to see how it stands up to humidity. I'll post some comparison pictures on my website in a couple of weeks.

              Garrett Dixon

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: IRIS NEVINS
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 8:52 AM
              Subject: Re: [Marbling] best paper for marbling?


              Hi Garrett.....have you used these papers recently? Are they still working, or does NYCentral have old stock? I have had no luck with any Mohawks since the 'old days'......decades maybe.

              I think too, if they do work you could buy cartons direct from a supplier a lot cheaper per 1000.

              For the marbling journal I have a list of 'acid' (don't worry, just mildly!) papers that in theory may work, though I have not tested them. The trouble with getting test sheets, as I learned last year with the Permalin nightmare, is they may send you samples/booklets cut from old stock that used to work.....when you get your carton ordered you must be really specific about wanting the lot the test sheets were from.....still this is no guarantee, Permalin promised me, then someone else from the company said "we can't guarantee that".....I had it in writing too....didn't do much good. I managed to make them pay me back for half, I donated the rest for a tax deduction. 3000 sheets worth!

              Be really careful out there! I hope they continue to work for you. I am paying more now but deal with a smaller company and smaller mill, and they will inform me of any changes, and if it means having a run of papers made by the old formula, so be it....I would order the 10,000 or so required sheets for a run. Have to keep marbling. I like the Natur Text, but it is medium weight. I don't have anyone complaining about it though, so binders seem to like it.

              Iris Nevins
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: G. Dixon<mailto:gdixon@...>
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 11:02 PM
              Subject: Re: [Marbling] best paper for marbling?



              Mohawk vellum (89 grams) and Cranes Crest laid or wove (48 grams although only 17 X 23 inches) are thinner papers that have worked well for me - available from New York Central.
              Garrett Dixon
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: carolevhoof
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 2:20 PM
              Subject: [Marbling] best paper for marbling?



              I'm doing watercolor marbling reproductions of antique endpapers for
              bookbinding & I need a source of a thin paper that will withstand the
              process, and accept the watercolor...it seems like everything is too
              buffered now to take the color well.




              Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT





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              Marbling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>

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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • IRIS NEVINS
              Thanks for info! iris ... From: G. Dixon To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 19,
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 19 8:27 PM
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                Thanks for info!
                iris
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: G. Dixon<mailto:gdixon@...>
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 9:16 PM
                Subject: Re: [Marbling] best paper for marbling?



                Hello Iris,
                I purchased some Mohawk vellum within the past month from NY Central, although I don't know how old it is, it took up the paint without difficulty, using aluminum sulfate at 1:10, that is 10 grams of alum for every 100 ml water. The sheets were dry, which is my preferred way to marble. I don't care for the paper - prefer Cranes Crest for a sturdy, lightweight paper, although it is more expensive and the sheets are smaller than ideal.
                I have been experimenting with aluminum acetate as an alternative to aluminum sulfate. Joseph Halfer wrote that it was superior to aluminum sulfate, and it does appear to work well for me - dissolves easier and stays in solution better. It is considerably more expensive than regular alum (although it will work at a 1:40 dilution for paints, 1:20 dilution for metallics which brings it closer to the cost of aluminum sulfate). It is less acidic than aluminum sulfate, and of course, avoids the sulfate residual. I must wait until summer to see how it stands up to humidity. I'll post some comparison pictures on my website in a couple of weeks.

                Garrett Dixon

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: IRIS NEVINS
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 8:52 AM
                Subject: Re: [Marbling] best paper for marbling?


                Hi Garrett.....have you used these papers recently? Are they still working, or does NYCentral have old stock? I have had no luck with any Mohawks since the 'old days'......decades maybe.

                I think too, if they do work you could buy cartons direct from a supplier a lot cheaper per 1000.

                For the marbling journal I have a list of 'acid' (don't worry, just mildly!) papers that in theory may work, though I have not tested them. The trouble with getting test sheets, as I learned last year with the Permalin nightmare, is they may send you samples/booklets cut from old stock that used to work.....when you get your carton ordered you must be really specific about wanting the lot the test sheets were from.....still this is no guarantee, Permalin promised me, then someone else from the company said "we can't guarantee that".....I had it in writing too....didn't do much good. I managed to make them pay me back for half, I donated the rest for a tax deduction. 3000 sheets worth!

                Be really careful out there! I hope they continue to work for you. I am paying more now but deal with a smaller company and smaller mill, and they will inform me of any changes, and if it means having a run of papers made by the old formula, so be it....I would order the 10,000 or so required sheets for a run. Have to keep marbling. I like the Natur Text, but it is medium weight. I don't have anyone complaining about it though, so binders seem to like it.

                Iris Nevins
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: G. Dixon<mailto:gdixon@...<mailto:gdixon@...>>
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
                Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 11:02 PM
                Subject: Re: [Marbling] best paper for marbling?



                Mohawk vellum (89 grams) and Cranes Crest laid or wove (48 grams although only 17 X 23 inches) are thinner papers that have worked well for me - available from New York Central.
                Garrett Dixon
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: carolevhoof
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
                Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 2:20 PM
                Subject: [Marbling] best paper for marbling?



                I'm doing watercolor marbling reproductions of antique endpapers for
                bookbinding & I need a source of a thin paper that will withstand the
                process, and accept the watercolor...it seems like everything is too
                buffered now to take the color well.




                Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                ADVERTISEMENT





                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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