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Color Ingredients

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  • Brent Mydland
    Do any of the hardcore marblers want to tell me how to make my own colors.....also looking for sumingashi ingredients too.... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE you can
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 3 10:10 AM
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      Do any of the hardcore marblers want to tell me how to make my own colors.....also looking for sumingashi ingredients too....
      PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
      you can always tell me off line.
      I will promise to try on my own too...Thanks Johnny

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    • Jake Benson
      Johnny, There are also a number of web sites that I have found searching google. Insructions for making paints can be found in many general art manuals such as
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 3 2:45 PM
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        Johnny,

        There are also a number of web sites that I have found searching google. Insructions for
        making paints can be found in many general art manuals such as Ralph Meyer's book.
        Older marbling manuals such as those by Halfer, Woolnough, and Louis Kinder also
        contain a lot of useful info. The latter are not readily available and you will have to go to a
        good univeristy library- probably even a rare book collection to find the works of these
        authors. I do hope that the Society of Marbling will at some point create downloadable
        versions of some of the old manuals (that are no longer protected by copyright) for
        members, but this is a long-term goal. Some recent manuals published by various
        Turkish authors also contain some of this information, but they are mainly in Turkish, with
        the exception of Hikemt Barut├žugil's recent books. All of these books have been
        discussed in the past and can be found in the group archives.


        Suffice it to say that it will require a fair bit of study for you to familiarize yourself with the
        basic chemistry, various compositions, and applications. Much of it is 1) proper saftey
        precautions when handling, 2) choice of pigments, binders, and dispersions (there is a
        LOT to choose from, and it really depends on which direction you are taking, and what
        your end-result will be), and 3) LOTS of trial and error!!! You think marbling was trial and
        error? get ready......

        A company whose service I have enjoyed for a number of years is Kremer Pigmente. Based
        in Germany, they have a small store in NYC on Elizabeth St.

        http://www.kremer-pigmente.de/

        As far as "Sumingashi ingredients". I'm not sure if you are asking how to make sumi
        sticks? At the last Marbling symposium in 2002, we were treated to an excellent
        presentation by Einen Miura on ink production in Japan. He has given this presentation
        before, so dpeending on where yu are located, you may be abelt o attend a workshop with
        him. That said, i don't know that I could bring myself to attempt, much less master the
        method.

        That said, I do think that the colors on the market are a very fair price for what you obtain.
        My own interest in this was simply a particular direction that I chose to take, and use them
        in conservation work as well as than marbling. The experience has helped me to
        understand a lot of how paint "works"....


        Speaking of the Miuras.... I understand they were moving to the LA area. Does anyone
        have their current contact info?

        Jake


        and --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Brent Mydland <jbg78734@y...> wrote:
        > Do any of the hardcore marblers want to tell me how to make my own colors.....also
        looking for sumingashi ingredients too....
        > PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
        > you can always tell me off line.
        > I will promise to try on my own too...Thanks Johnny
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • dixongarrett
        Making your own paints can be a worthwhile experience and, fortunately, once the process is understood it is not nearly so time consuming as it was 100 years
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 3 6:48 PM
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          Making your own paints can be a worthwhile experience and,
          fortunately, once the process is understood it is not nearly so time
          consuming as it was 100 years ago. Some chemisty experience is
          helpful, but plenty of information is available. More materials are
          available today and available pigments are sufficiently finely ground
          that the long griinding times needed in the past are no longer
          necessary. Good discussions of paints can be found in Mayer's "The
          Artists Handbook", although it is a little out of date as far as
          covering many modern pigments. His description of making gouache is a
          good starting point (and while he does not recommend home manufacture
          of watercolor paints, for marbling, pure pigment watercolor paints can
          be made as easily as gouache), but other sources are available. I
          have been satisfied with Kremer pigments and other supplies, and their
          catalogue also lists some useful books and very basic instructions for
          gouache and acrylic paints. Once you have a satisfactory binder
          (needed to uniformly distribute the pigment throughout the paint and
          prevent clumping of pigment particles) for the pigment it gets fairly
          easy. The older marbling texts can be useful in serving as guides,
          but they are very imprecise as far as quantities and measurements are
          concerned (and Halfer was very protective of his paint making
          technolgy). I would not recommend a beginner spend much time with
          them until he/she had been successful using modern methods and
          materials. When working with pigments, always use a mask and gloves,
          eye protection and be very aware of the potential toxicity of what you
          are working with (there are many non-toxic pigments that work very
          well, but always taking the same precautions ensures good habits and
          maximum safety).
          Suminagashi paintmaking technique is not radically different than
          watercolor. Some paints are made just with pigment and water (from
          what I glean from the literature and T.Kuroda's website), but I have
          been more successful using pigment and a binder - I use diluted fish
          glue - to make a very concentrated pigment ink.

          On a different note:
          For some time, now, I have been searching for an alternative to alum,
          and I have finally found a cost effective one. I have been marbling
          using a retention agent. These are non-toxic, archivally-safe
          compounds used in the papermaking industry to facilitate the binding
          of pigment to pulp during the papermaking process (using electrical
          charge - ions). When applied to the surface of the paper, they
          function in the same manner. Application is similar to alum, but
          there are some technical differences. The papers rest on the size a
          little longer, and excess size should not be scraped or rinsed off the
          papers, they should just be left to drain.

          If anyone wants to see examples of paint, sumi paint and retention
          agents, they are available on my website
          http://www.marblersapprentice.com (be patient, the images take a while
          to download). For information on retention agents, click on the
          "Research" button to go to the Research page, then click on
          "Alternatives to Alum".
          Sorry for the length of this.
          Garrett

          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Brent Mydland <jbg78734@y...> wrote:
          > Do any of the hardcore marblers want to tell me how to make my own
          colors.....also looking for sumingashi ingredients too....
          > PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
          > you can always tell me off line.
          > I will promise to try on my own too...Thanks Johnny
          >
          > __________________________________________________
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > http://mail.yahoo.com
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • David Graham
          Chapter 14 (Technical Aspects of the Craft, III; The Colors Used) in Richard Wolfe s Marbled Paper; Its History, Techniques, and Patterns is wonderfully
          Message 4 of 4 , Feb 4 7:38 AM
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            Chapter 14 (Technical Aspects of the Craft, III; The Colors Used) in
            Richard Wolfe's "Marbled Paper; Its History, Techniques, and Patterns"
            is wonderfully informative on a wide range of aspects of the topic.

            Dave Graham
            Estelline, SD


            On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 22:45:17 -0000, Jake Benson
            <handbindery@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Johnny,
            >
            > There are also a number of web sites that I have found searching google. Insructions for
            > making paints can be found in many general art manuals such as Ralph Meyer's book.
            > Older marbling manuals such as those by Halfer, Woolnough, and Louis Kinder also
            > contain a lot of useful info. The latter are not readily available and you will have to go to a
            > good univeristy library- probably even a rare book collection to find the works of these
            > authors. I do hope that the Society of Marbling will at some point create downloadable
            > versions of some of the old manuals (that are no longer protected by copyright) for
            > members, but this is a long-term goal. Some recent manuals published by various
            > Turkish authors also contain some of this information, but they are mainly in Turkish, with
            > the exception of Hikemt Barut├žugil's recent books. All of these books have been
            > discussed in the past and can be found in the group archives.
            >
            > Suffice it to say that it will require a fair bit of study for you to familiarize yourself with the
            > basic chemistry, various compositions, and applications. Much of it is 1) proper saftey
            > precautions when handling, 2) choice of pigments, binders, and dispersions (there is a
            > LOT to choose from, and it really depends on which direction you are taking, and what
            > your end-result will be), and 3) LOTS of trial and error!!! You think marbling was trial and
            > error? get ready......
            >
            > A company whose service I have enjoyed for a number of years is Kremer Pigmente. Based
            > in Germany, they have a small store in NYC on Elizabeth St.
            >
            > http://www.kremer-pigmente.de/
            >
            > As far as "Sumingashi ingredients". I'm not sure if you are asking how to make sumi
            > sticks? At the last Marbling symposium in 2002, we were treated to an excellent
            > presentation by Einen Miura on ink production in Japan. He has given this presentation
            > before, so dpeending on where yu are located, you may be abelt o attend a workshop with
            > him. That said, i don't know that I could bring myself to attempt, much less master the
            > method.
            >
            > That said, I do think that the colors on the market are a very fair price for what you obtain.
            > My own interest in this was simply a particular direction that I chose to take, and use them
            > in conservation work as well as than marbling. The experience has helped me to
            > understand a lot of how paint "works"....
            >
            > Speaking of the Miuras.... I understand they were moving to the LA area. Does anyone
            > have their current contact info?
            >
            > Jake
            >
            >
            > and --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Brent Mydland <jbg78734@y...> wrote:
            > > Do any of the hardcore marblers want to tell me how to make my own colors.....also
            > looking for sumingashi ingredients too....
            > > PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
            > > you can always tell me off line.
            > > I will promise to try on my own too...Thanks Johnny
            > >
            > > __________________________________________________
            > > Do You Yahoo!?
            > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > > http://mail.yahoo.com
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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