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re: marbling with an airbrush?

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  • Jake Benson
    In response to Lokman, I ve not tried using an airbrush, but do use a large tray like yours. I have tried various spray bottles, including the kind with a pump
    Message 1 of 3 , Jan 2, 2005
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      In response to Lokman,

      I've not tried using an airbrush, but do use a large tray like yours.
      I have tried various spray bottles, including the kind with a pump for
      water plants. In the end, I never really got the hang of it or liked
      the results. While I use watercolor I make myself, I have seen someone
      use spray bottles for acrylic marbling. The acrylic color is more
      powerful and spreads more on the surface than water color.

      It made me wonder when you refer to the "marbling brush" are referring
      to the traditional Turkish horsehair brush.

      In America, some of us use a kind of "whisk" rather than the horsehair
      brush for watercolor marbling. These are made from bundles of
      long-stemmed plant, what we call "broom-corn" in English. The Latin
      term is Andropogon Sorghum, (ve T�rk�ede "s�p�rge darisi"
      konusursunuz.)

      You can also make a kind of whisk from a small broom. I find I have to
      trim it a little, and remove any seeds. The color is in a large
      container, and I make up about 1 liter of color to fill it. After I
      dip the broom, it is overloaded, so I remove the excess by beating the
      loaded brush gently against a wooden stick over the container, to save
      the color and not waste it. I then hold it very high up above my head,
      and gently beat against the stick in an even manner.

      Several whisks are illustrated in section on marbling (Marbreur de
      Papier), in the the Encyclopedie Diderot et d'Alembert, Plate 1, item
      D. So these whisks have been used in Europe for a long time. Also
      some pictures of the French firm, Maison Putois taken about 1900 show
      very large broom-whisks sitting on top of large clay jar for the
      colors. these can be seen in the French books by St�phane Ipert and
      Marie Ange Doizy.

      Yet am I correct in thinking this kind of whisk is not so common in
      Turkey? It was certainly not used by Mustafa D�zg�nman,
      Yet I think I remember hearing that Niyazi Sayin used this some times?
      Feridun, would you care to comment? Do either of you use the whisks?

      I find this broom-whisk to be much faster than the small horsehair
      brush and even the spray bottles. Another thing about the airbrush and
      spray bottles is that the mist is so fine, I think it is possible to
      breathe color particles in while working. Needless to say, I doubt
      this is good for you. You could wear a mask to protect yourself.

      I hope this is helpful to you

      Anyone else care to comment on this approach?

      I have wondered if this part of the set-up the Belgian company Relma
      uses to make their mass-produced oil marbled papers, the so-called
      "French Marbles".
      Do they use a commercial pressure canister and paint spray-gun? Not
      that I want to become a marbling machine....

      Jake Benson



      > Greetings everyday,
      >
      > There has been increased discussion/questions/information sharing
      > going on in
      > the list. Here is my contribution to the email traffic. Has anybody
      > used
      > airbrush or something similar for marbling? Airbrush outperforms
      > regular
      > marbling brush for the initial covering of the surface of size. I
      > bought one
      > sometime ago but was not satisfied with its performance. The opening
      > was too
      > small and it took too much time to cover relatively large size
      > surface. I do not
      > want to spend any more money for the trial-error period and was
      > wondering if
      > anybody has some suggestions about the style/brand/type, etc., of
      > airbrush that
      > I can use. I have relatively large tank (~ 35� x 45�) and it is
      > essential to
      > uniformly well-cover the size surface with the first dye solution.
      >
      > Thanks,
      >
      > Lokman







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • IRIS NEVINS
      Jake....I use plastic squeeze bottles, Boston Rounds with Yorker Caps. Very traditional, LOL. O am an oaf and spill all the time otherwise. For stone patterns
      Message 2 of 3 , Jan 2, 2005
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        Jake....I use plastic squeeze bottles, Boston Rounds with Yorker Caps. Very traditional, LOL. O am an oaf and spill all the time otherwise. For stone patterns I use highly Traditional (just kidding) plastic whisk broom staws. I cut them and tie with a rubber band at top. Easy, they never mold like the corn broom.

        And, I hate to say but I AM a marbling machine....anything that can make it easier and more efficient I will try. When I come off the custom orders, the large repetitive ones (that make me work like a machine) and do some artwork on occassion I am much slower and more relaxed. Being a machine in its own way is a great challenge....just trying to repeat and copy one's own work is pretty hard at times!

        Iris Nevins
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Jake Benson<mailto:handbindery@...>
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 7:36 PM
        Subject: [Marbling] re: marbling with an airbrush?



        In response to Lokman,

        I've not tried using an airbrush, but do use a large tray like yours.
        I have tried various spray bottles, including the kind with a pump for
        water plants. In the end, I never really got the hang of it or liked
        the results. While I use watercolor I make myself, I have seen someone
        use spray bottles for acrylic marbling. The acrylic color is more
        powerful and spreads more on the surface than water color.

        It made me wonder when you refer to the "marbling brush" are referring
        to the traditional Turkish horsehair brush.

        In America, some of us use a kind of "whisk" rather than the horsehair
        brush for watercolor marbling. These are made from bundles of
        long-stemmed plant, what we call "broom-corn" in English. The Latin
        term is Andropogon Sorghum, (ve Türkçede "süpürge darisi"
        konusursunuz.)

        You can also make a kind of whisk from a small broom. I find I have to
        trim it a little, and remove any seeds. The color is in a large
        container, and I make up about 1 liter of color to fill it. After I
        dip the broom, it is overloaded, so I remove the excess by beating the
        loaded brush gently against a wooden stick over the container, to save
        the color and not waste it. I then hold it very high up above my head,
        and gently beat against the stick in an even manner.

        Several whisks are illustrated in section on marbling (Marbreur de
        Papier), in the the Encyclopedie Diderot et d'Alembert, Plate 1, item
        D. So these whisks have been used in Europe for a long time. Also
        some pictures of the French firm, Maison Putois taken about 1900 show
        very large broom-whisks sitting on top of large clay jar for the
        colors. these can be seen in the French books by Stéphane Ipert and
        Marie Ange Doizy.

        Yet am I correct in thinking this kind of whisk is not so common in
        Turkey? It was certainly not used by Mustafa Düzgünman,
        Yet I think I remember hearing that Niyazi Sayin used this some times?
        Feridun, would you care to comment? Do either of you use the whisks?

        I find this broom-whisk to be much faster than the small horsehair
        brush and even the spray bottles. Another thing about the airbrush and
        spray bottles is that the mist is so fine, I think it is possible to
        breathe color particles in while working. Needless to say, I doubt
        this is good for you. You could wear a mask to protect yourself.

        I hope this is helpful to you

        Anyone else care to comment on this approach?

        I have wondered if this part of the set-up the Belgian company Relma
        uses to make their mass-produced oil marbled papers, the so-called
        "French Marbles".
        Do they use a commercial pressure canister and paint spray-gun? Not
        that I want to become a marbling machine....

        Jake Benson



        > Greetings everyday,
        >
        > There has been increased discussion/questions/information sharing
        > going on in
        > the list. Here is my contribution to the email traffic. Has anybody
        > used
        > airbrush or something similar for marbling? Airbrush outperforms
        > regular
        > marbling brush for the initial covering of the surface of size. I
        > bought one
        > sometime ago but was not satisfied with its performance. The opening
        > was too
        > small and it took too much time to cover relatively large size
        > surface. I do not
        > want to spend any more money for the trial-error period and was
        > wondering if
        > anybody has some suggestions about the style/brand/type, etc., of
        > airbrush that
        > I can use. I have relatively large tank (~ 35" x 45") and it is
        > essential to
        > uniformly well-cover the size surface with the first dye solution.
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        > Lokman







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        Yahoo! Groups Links









        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Lokman Torun
        Thanks Jake for your response. I make, or try to make, ebru with calligraphy. It involves, as you know, multiple marbling processes. The very first marbling in
        Message 3 of 3 , Jan 3, 2005
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          Thanks Jake for your response. I make, or try to make, ebru with calligraphy. It involves, as you know, multiple marbling processes. The very first marbling in each process has to cover the surface perfectly leaving no "unmarbled lines." This part is usually not very efficiently done with marbling brushes. Airbrush works better or perfects the "shortcomings".



          As for the brushes, I made them from both horse hair and broom. Brushes from horse hair works well if you want to drop tiny spots on the size. Otherwise, brush holding too much of dye, if not careful, drops very big spots and ruin the work. The other kind is better when you need to cover a large area with most uniformity possible. Better than all these are the ones I made from a plastic brush. I cut a bundle of bristles from it and made small brushes on chopsticks. The fibers, although bound together, stay individually which holds more controllable amounts of dye and gives more control to the user over the spread of the dye, and they are not brittle as those made from whisk.

          Lokman


          Jake Benson <handbindery@...> wrote:

          In response to Lokman,

          I've not tried using an airbrush, but do use a large tray like yours.
          I have tried various spray bottles, including the kind with a pump for
          water plants. In the end, I never really got the hang of it or liked
          the results. While I use watercolor I make myself, I have seen someone
          use spray bottles for acrylic marbling. The acrylic color is more
          powerful and spreads more on the surface than water color.

          It made me wonder when you refer to the "marbling brush" are referring
          to the traditional Turkish horsehair brush.

          In America, some of us use a kind of "whisk" rather than the horsehair
          brush for watercolor marbling. These are made from bundles of
          long-stemmed plant, what we call "broom-corn" in English. The Latin
          term is Andropogon Sorghum, (ve T�rk�ede "s�p�rge darisi"
          konusursunuz.)

          You can also make a kind of whisk from a small broom. I find I have to
          trim it a little, and remove any seeds. The color is in a large
          container, and I make up about 1 liter of color to fill it. After I
          dip the broom, it is overloaded, so I remove the excess by beating the
          loaded brush gently against a wooden stick over the container, to save
          the color and not waste it. I then hold it very high up above my head,
          and gently beat against the stick in an even manner.

          Several whisks are illustrated in section on marbling (Marbreur de
          Papier), in the the Encyclopedie Diderot et d'Alembert, Plate 1, item
          D. So these whisks have been used in Europe for a long time. Also
          some pictures of the French firm, Maison Putois taken about 1900 show
          very large broom-whisks sitting on top of large clay jar for the
          colors. these can be seen in the French books by St�phane Ipert and
          Marie Ange Doizy.

          Yet am I correct in thinking this kind of whisk is not so common in
          Turkey? It was certainly not used by Mustafa D�zg�nman,
          Yet I think I remember hearing that Niyazi Sayin used this some times?
          Feridun, would you care to comment? Do either of you use the whisks?

          I find this broom-whisk to be much faster than the small horsehair
          brush and even the spray bottles. Another thing about the airbrush and
          spray bottles is that the mist is so fine, I think it is possible to
          breathe color particles in while working. Needless to say, I doubt
          this is good for you. You could wear a mask to protect yourself.

          I hope this is helpful to you

          Anyone else care to comment on this approach?

          I have wondered if this part of the set-up the Belgian company Relma
          uses to make their mass-produced oil marbled papers, the so-called
          "French Marbles".
          Do they use a commercial pressure canister and paint spray-gun? Not
          that I want to become a marbling machine....

          Jake Benson



          > Greetings everyday,
          >
          > There has been increased discussion/questions/information sharing
          > going on in
          > the list. Here is my contribution to the email traffic. Has anybody
          > used
          > airbrush or something similar for marbling? Airbrush outperforms
          > regular
          > marbling brush for the initial covering of the surface of size. I
          > bought one
          > sometime ago but was not satisfied with its performance. The opening
          > was too
          > small and it took too much time to cover relatively large size
          > surface. I do not
          > want to spend any more money for the trial-error period and was
          > wondering if
          > anybody has some suggestions about the style/brand/type, etc., of
          > airbrush that
          > I can use. I have relatively large tank (~ 35� x 45�) and it is
          > essential to
          > uniformly well-cover the size surface with the first dye solution.
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          > Lokman







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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