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Re: Papers

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  • papermimi
    Thanks Iris -- I firt learned to marble 3+ years ago, loved it and knew I would have to own a set-up, (to marble papers for my bookarts & paperarts) so I
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 2, 2004
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      Thanks Iris -- I firt learned to marble 3+ years ago, loved it and
      knew I would have to own a set-up, (to marble papers for my
      bookarts & paperarts) so I purchased supplies soon after. . . broke a
      leg . . . . put plans on hold. . . mother got sick, put plans on
      hold . . . . now mom is well and going home soon and I've brought the
      marbling out of mothballs this past month, only to find out about the
      paper problems. I'm unsure regarding the age of the Permalin I
      have from Skycraft (whose been quite helpful), but it is performing
      quite well, so far. It is so beautiful. . . I'm really fond of the
      rich colors and how well it responds with the inks which are the
      watercolors from Colophon. I'm no chemist, learning as I go.

      From what I've read, I understood acrylics to be more difficult to
      work than the watercolor (thanks for your encouraging word about them
      for marbling) . . . nonetheless, I like the results of acrylics much
      better and use them in other applications. . . therefore, I am
      chomping to use acrylics in marbling. . . but not much how-to
      information available. . . . visited the Golden Artist's Paints
      website which has instructions for using their acrylics and flow
      release for marbling . . . think that will be my next experiment, as
      I'm familiar with Golden Artist products and like them.

      The nearest paper supplier is an hour's drive and I don't get there
      often...therefore, the trial and error w/papers is frustrating -- my
      supplier is unfamiliar with marbling paper needs . . so I really feel
      on my own to come up with suitable practice papers. Well, to be
      sure,I am learning what papers work and which don't. It's rather a
      catch 22 -- practicing to feel good enough to lay down the good paper
      but knowing that the better paper will also render better results.
      I'm making a lot of mistakes with combing & raking, resetting the
      teeth, etc, etc . . improving daily, tho.

      I was a fortunate early bird in registering for Mimi's class at
      Arrowmont in June . . . making all the mistakes now, so I can
      hopefully know what I need to improve when I get to her.

      I am aware of your interest in antiquity marbling, (indeed, it was
      Mimi who suggested I phone you recently about the paper problem), so
      we've talked. I just wonder, Iris, if the NaturText comes in 70# and
      in deep, rich colors.

      I've purchased some marbled works from those Moth Marblers in
      Sausalito and like their techniques - I'll be going for the more
      contemporary style with overpainting. . . . yes, a long way to go.
      Oh,what have I done? Gone and gotten myself a case of the marbling
      pox!


      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
      > you don't say what paint you use? Acrylics are more forgiving than
      > watercolor. Is the Permalin old stock?I now use NaturText from
      Atlantic
      > Papers in PA.
      > irisnevins
      >
      >
      >
    • gretchen vansant
      Hey if your near salsalito,you,d be near dharma trading in san rafel for supplies. or for that matter I,m right down the pennisula If you wanna see a fabric
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 2, 2004
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        Hey if your near salsalito,you,d be near dharma trading in san rafel for supplies. or for that matter I,m right down the pennisula If you wanna see a fabric marbler at work. gretchen

        papermimi <mimimimi29290776@...> wrote:Thanks Iris -- I firt learned to marble 3+ years ago, loved it and
        knew I would have to own a set-up, (to marble papers for my
        bookarts & paperarts) so I purchased supplies soon after. . . broke a
        leg . . . . put plans on hold. . . mother got sick, put plans on
        hold . . . . now mom is well and going home soon and I've brought the
        marbling out of mothballs this past month, only to find out about the
        paper problems. I'm unsure regarding the age of the Permalin I
        have from Skycraft (whose been quite helpful), but it is performing
        quite well, so far. It is so beautiful. . . I'm really fond of the
        rich colors and how well it responds with the inks which are the
        watercolors from Colophon. I'm no chemist, learning as I go.

        From what I've read, I understood acrylics to be more difficult to
        work than the watercolor (thanks for your encouraging word about them
        for marbling) . . . nonetheless, I like the results of acrylics much
        better and use them in other applications. . . therefore, I am
        chomping to use acrylics in marbling. . . but not much how-to
        information available. . . . visited the Golden Artist's Paints
        website which has instructions for using their acrylics and flow
        release for marbling . . . think that will be my next experiment, as
        I'm familiar with Golden Artist products and like them.

        The nearest paper supplier is an hour's drive and I don't get there
        often...therefore, the trial and error w/papers is frustrating -- my
        supplier is unfamiliar with marbling paper needs . . so I really feel
        on my own to come up with suitable practice papers. Well, to be
        sure,I am learning what papers work and which don't. It's rather a
        catch 22 -- practicing to feel good enough to lay down the good paper
        but knowing that the better paper will also render better results.
        I'm making a lot of mistakes with combing & raking, resetting the
        teeth, etc, etc . . improving daily, tho.

        I was a fortunate early bird in registering for Mimi's class at
        Arrowmont in June . . . making all the mistakes now, so I can
        hopefully know what I need to improve when I get to her.

        I am aware of your interest in antiquity marbling, (indeed, it was
        Mimi who suggested I phone you recently about the paper problem), so
        we've talked. I just wonder, Iris, if the NaturText comes in 70# and
        in deep, rich colors.

        I've purchased some marbled works from those Moth Marblers in
        Sausalito and like their techniques - I'll be going for the more
        contemporary style with overpainting. . . . yes, a long way to go.
        Oh,what have I done? Gone and gotten myself a case of the marbling
        pox!


        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
        > you don't say what paint you use? Acrylics are more forgiving than
        > watercolor. Is the Permalin old stock?I now use NaturText from
        Atlantic
        > Papers in PA.
        > irisnevins
        >
        >
        >


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      • irisnevins
        I just wrote on the pros and cons of acrylic and watercolor for the Guild Of Bookworkers Journal, it will be out within 6-7 weeks, or maybe can be viewed
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 3, 2004
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          I just wrote on the pros and cons of acrylic and watercolor for the Guild
          Of Bookworkers Journal, it will be out within 6-7 weeks, or maybe can be
          viewed online at their site in a while. I no longer have the article, it
          got the them I know but got deleted on this end.

          I find the acryilics easier to use, but cannot use them for 17th-19th
          century reproduction which is what I mainly do. Otherwise I'd use them all
          the time.

          you may have older stock of Permalin, when that runs out, make sure when
          you order that you want a test sheet from the stock they will send. I did
          that and they sent me something different that did not work, they changed
          the chemistry. Basically, someone there said, yeah,yeah, sure, we always
          send the stock we sent test pieces of. I just got a 50% refund after many
          months arguing, which was wrong,it was their fault and they misled me, but
          they generally do not refund at all, I was just a pest. I have 3000 sheets
          i can't use. I have not tested with acrylics yet, haven't had time, but
          they may work a little better with them than watercolor. Still, I can't use
          them.I never do acrylic on paper, only on fabric.

          Iris Nevins
        • papermimi
          I ll be watching for your article, Iris. Peggy Skycraft does some gorgeous! acrylic marbling on paper . . .a quality to which I aspire. I also appreciate
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 3, 2004
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            I'll be watching for your article, Iris. Peggy Skycraft does some
            gorgeous! acrylic marbling on paper . . .a quality to which I
            aspire. I also appreciate your info re Permalin. I've been put in
            touch with the Ohio rep who advises there "may" be some non-buffered
            inventory available. . .I've told him I must have written assurance
            they are such and have asked for test sheets. I'm hopeful for a
            reply today.

            I've been reading the archives re papers and would add that I am also
            a handpapermaker. Recently, I tried marbling a sheet of cotton/abaca
            mix. My experience was similar to that of other. . .during the
            vatting process, I add a size to prevent the paper from soaking in
            huge quantities of expensive acrylics (once it's dried and cured, I
            paint it and otherwise build surface). . . . this paper did not
            accept the watercolor inks (only very faintly) with or without the
            mordant,perhaps because of the size. I also make a kozo/gampi/abaca
            blend which I will test today. I love kozo or gampi blended with
            abaca for use as journal texts, although it finishes in the press
            with a slight textural tooth, it writes smooth as silk. I especially
            enjoy showcasing these papers with the handmarbles.

            Pamela

            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Message #2331 irisnevins
            <irisnevins@c...> wrote:

            > I just wrote on the pros and cons of acrylic and watercolor for the
            Guild
            > Of Bookworkers Journal, it will be out within 6-7 weeks, or maybe
            can be
            > viewed online at their site in a while. I no longer have the
            article, it
            > got the them I know but got deleted on this end.
            >
            > I find the acryilics easier to use, but cannot use them for 17th-
            19th
            > century reproduction which is what I mainly do. Otherwise I'd use
            them all
            > the time.
          • Gail MacKenzie
            ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 3, 2004
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              > hello Papermimi...I have a suggestion for acryli8cs. Ruppert, Gibbon and
              > Spider bought out the Jacquard line and did quite a bit of work and research
              > to refigure a line of colors for marbling. Everything works together quite
              > well...of course, there¹s still a little adjusting for the blackest of blacks!
              > Good luck! Go to www.jacquardproducts.com Regards, Gail M.
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • papermimi
              Thanks, Gail -- I did not know that about Jacquard merger (acquisition) -- headspinning changes going on in corporate US. How interesting. I have used
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 3, 2004
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                Thanks, Gail -- I did not know that about Jacquard merger
                (acquisition) -- headspinning changes going on in corporate US. How
                interesting. I have used Jacquard extensively in my paperpainting
                with great results, especially their Lumiere line. You don't say!
                Hmmmmm seems that marbling just might be the next big wave if
                Jacquard is offering a paint. hmmmmm I'll be off to investigate
                this tidbit of info. Thanks Gail

                Pamela



                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • papermimi
                Thanks, Gail -- I did not know that about Jacquard merger (acquisition) -- headspinning changes going on in corporate US. How interesting. I have used
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 3, 2004
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                  Thanks, Gail -- I did not know that about Jacquard merger
                  (acquisition) -- headspinning changes going on in corporate US. How
                  interesting. I have used Jacquard extensively in my paperpainting
                  with great results, especially their Lumiere line. You don't say!
                  Hmmmmm seems that marbling just might be the next big wave if
                  Jacquard is offering a paint. hmmmmm I'll be off to investigate
                  this tidbit of info. Thanks Gail

                  Pamela



                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • irisnevins
                  Pamela....are you the Pamela from Ohio who called me earlier? I have been trying to call for hours but it is busy. It is best to email me offgroup:
                  Message 8 of 11 , Mar 3, 2004
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                    Pamela....are you the Pamela from Ohio who called me earlier? I have been
                    trying to call for hours but it is busy. It is best to email me offgroup:

                    irisnevins@...

                    this will work better than the phone, I will be away from it a lot the next
                    few days.

                    Thanks,
                    IrisNevins

                    Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    Thanks, Gail -- I did not know that about Jacquard merger
                    (acquisition) -- headspinning changes going on in corporate US. How
                    interesting. I have used Jacquard extensively in my paperpainting
                    with great results, especially their Lumiere line. You don't say!
                    Hmmmmm seems that marbling just might be the next big wave if
                    Jacquard is offering a paint. hmmmmm I'll be off to investigate
                    this tidbit of info. Thanks Gail

                    Pamela<
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