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[Marbling] Papers

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  • irisnevins
    you don t say what paint you use? Acrylics are more forgiving than watercolor. Is the Permalin old stock?I now use NaturText from Atlantic Papers in PA.
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 29, 2004
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      you don't say what paint you use? Acrylics are more forgiving than
      watercolor. Is the Permalin old stock?I now use NaturText from Atlantic
      Papers in PA.
      irisnevins


      Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      >
      Now that calcium carbonate has become a problem, where are you all
      getting your papers for marbling? I've been using all manner of
      papers for practice of combing/raking techniques before "goofing" up
      all my great Permalin........I've been all over the I-net looking for
      a midwest supplier but coming up empty. I'm a new marbler and want
      to improve and keep going to become as good as some of the best names
      on this list. So far, (the few sheets of) Permalin is performing
      beautifully! once I get the glitches worked out.....but that is very
      expensive practice paper. One thing I'm learning for sure, not all
      paper is created equal and they vary in their ability to showcase the
      ink/patterns. Thanks <
    • papermimi
      Thanks Iris -- I firt learned to marble 3+ years ago, loved it and knew I would have to own a set-up, (to marble papers for my bookarts & paperarts) so I
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 2, 2004
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        Thanks Iris -- I firt learned to marble 3+ years ago, loved it and
        knew I would have to own a set-up, (to marble papers for my
        bookarts & paperarts) so I purchased supplies soon after. . . broke a
        leg . . . . put plans on hold. . . mother got sick, put plans on
        hold . . . . now mom is well and going home soon and I've brought the
        marbling out of mothballs this past month, only to find out about the
        paper problems. I'm unsure regarding the age of the Permalin I
        have from Skycraft (whose been quite helpful), but it is performing
        quite well, so far. It is so beautiful. . . I'm really fond of the
        rich colors and how well it responds with the inks which are the
        watercolors from Colophon. I'm no chemist, learning as I go.

        From what I've read, I understood acrylics to be more difficult to
        work than the watercolor (thanks for your encouraging word about them
        for marbling) . . . nonetheless, I like the results of acrylics much
        better and use them in other applications. . . therefore, I am
        chomping to use acrylics in marbling. . . but not much how-to
        information available. . . . visited the Golden Artist's Paints
        website which has instructions for using their acrylics and flow
        release for marbling . . . think that will be my next experiment, as
        I'm familiar with Golden Artist products and like them.

        The nearest paper supplier is an hour's drive and I don't get there
        often...therefore, the trial and error w/papers is frustrating -- my
        supplier is unfamiliar with marbling paper needs . . so I really feel
        on my own to come up with suitable practice papers. Well, to be
        sure,I am learning what papers work and which don't. It's rather a
        catch 22 -- practicing to feel good enough to lay down the good paper
        but knowing that the better paper will also render better results.
        I'm making a lot of mistakes with combing & raking, resetting the
        teeth, etc, etc . . improving daily, tho.

        I was a fortunate early bird in registering for Mimi's class at
        Arrowmont in June . . . making all the mistakes now, so I can
        hopefully know what I need to improve when I get to her.

        I am aware of your interest in antiquity marbling, (indeed, it was
        Mimi who suggested I phone you recently about the paper problem), so
        we've talked. I just wonder, Iris, if the NaturText comes in 70# and
        in deep, rich colors.

        I've purchased some marbled works from those Moth Marblers in
        Sausalito and like their techniques - I'll be going for the more
        contemporary style with overpainting. . . . yes, a long way to go.
        Oh,what have I done? Gone and gotten myself a case of the marbling
        pox!


        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
        > you don't say what paint you use? Acrylics are more forgiving than
        > watercolor. Is the Permalin old stock?I now use NaturText from
        Atlantic
        > Papers in PA.
        > irisnevins
        >
        >
        >
      • papermimi
        Thanks Iris -- I firt learned to marble 3+ years ago, loved it and knew I would have to own a set-up, (to marble papers for my bookarts & paperarts) so I
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 2, 2004
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          Thanks Iris -- I firt learned to marble 3+ years ago, loved it and
          knew I would have to own a set-up, (to marble papers for my
          bookarts & paperarts) so I purchased supplies soon after. . . broke a
          leg . . . . put plans on hold. . . mother got sick, put plans on
          hold . . . . now mom is well and going home soon and I've brought the
          marbling out of mothballs this past month, only to find out about the
          paper problems. I'm unsure regarding the age of the Permalin I
          have from Skycraft (whose been quite helpful), but it is performing
          quite well, so far. It is so beautiful. . . I'm really fond of the
          rich colors and how well it responds with the inks which are the
          watercolors from Colophon. I'm no chemist, learning as I go.

          From what I've read, I understood acrylics to be more difficult to
          work than the watercolor (thanks for your encouraging word about them
          for marbling) . . . nonetheless, I like the results of acrylics much
          better and use them in other applications. . . therefore, I am
          chomping to use acrylics in marbling. . . but not much how-to
          information available. . . . visited the Golden Artist's Paints
          website which has instructions for using their acrylics and flow
          release for marbling . . . think that will be my next experiment, as
          I'm familiar with Golden Artist products and like them.

          The nearest paper supplier is an hour's drive and I don't get there
          often...therefore, the trial and error w/papers is frustrating -- my
          supplier is unfamiliar with marbling paper needs . . so I really feel
          on my own to come up with suitable practice papers. Well, to be
          sure,I am learning what papers work and which don't. It's rather a
          catch 22 -- practicing to feel good enough to lay down the good paper
          but knowing that the better paper will also render better results.
          I'm making a lot of mistakes with combing & raking, resetting the
          teeth, etc, etc . . improving daily, tho.

          I was a fortunate early bird in registering for Mimi's class at
          Arrowmont in June . . . making all the mistakes now, so I can
          hopefully know what I need to improve when I get to her.

          I am aware of your interest in antiquity marbling, (indeed, it was
          Mimi who suggested I phone you recently about the paper problem), so
          we've talked. I just wonder, Iris, if the NaturText comes in 70# and
          in deep, rich colors.

          I've purchased some marbled works from those Moth Marblers in
          Sausalito and like their techniques - I'll be going for the more
          contemporary style with overpainting. . . . yes, a long way to go.
          Oh,what have I done? Gone and gotten myself a case of the marbling
          pox!


          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
          > you don't say what paint you use? Acrylics are more forgiving than
          > watercolor. Is the Permalin old stock?I now use NaturText from
          Atlantic
          > Papers in PA.
          > irisnevins
          >
          >
          >
        • gretchen vansant
          Hey if your near salsalito,you,d be near dharma trading in san rafel for supplies. or for that matter I,m right down the pennisula If you wanna see a fabric
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 2, 2004
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            Hey if your near salsalito,you,d be near dharma trading in san rafel for supplies. or for that matter I,m right down the pennisula If you wanna see a fabric marbler at work. gretchen

            papermimi <mimimimi29290776@...> wrote:Thanks Iris -- I firt learned to marble 3+ years ago, loved it and
            knew I would have to own a set-up, (to marble papers for my
            bookarts & paperarts) so I purchased supplies soon after. . . broke a
            leg . . . . put plans on hold. . . mother got sick, put plans on
            hold . . . . now mom is well and going home soon and I've brought the
            marbling out of mothballs this past month, only to find out about the
            paper problems. I'm unsure regarding the age of the Permalin I
            have from Skycraft (whose been quite helpful), but it is performing
            quite well, so far. It is so beautiful. . . I'm really fond of the
            rich colors and how well it responds with the inks which are the
            watercolors from Colophon. I'm no chemist, learning as I go.

            From what I've read, I understood acrylics to be more difficult to
            work than the watercolor (thanks for your encouraging word about them
            for marbling) . . . nonetheless, I like the results of acrylics much
            better and use them in other applications. . . therefore, I am
            chomping to use acrylics in marbling. . . but not much how-to
            information available. . . . visited the Golden Artist's Paints
            website which has instructions for using their acrylics and flow
            release for marbling . . . think that will be my next experiment, as
            I'm familiar with Golden Artist products and like them.

            The nearest paper supplier is an hour's drive and I don't get there
            often...therefore, the trial and error w/papers is frustrating -- my
            supplier is unfamiliar with marbling paper needs . . so I really feel
            on my own to come up with suitable practice papers. Well, to be
            sure,I am learning what papers work and which don't. It's rather a
            catch 22 -- practicing to feel good enough to lay down the good paper
            but knowing that the better paper will also render better results.
            I'm making a lot of mistakes with combing & raking, resetting the
            teeth, etc, etc . . improving daily, tho.

            I was a fortunate early bird in registering for Mimi's class at
            Arrowmont in June . . . making all the mistakes now, so I can
            hopefully know what I need to improve when I get to her.

            I am aware of your interest in antiquity marbling, (indeed, it was
            Mimi who suggested I phone you recently about the paper problem), so
            we've talked. I just wonder, Iris, if the NaturText comes in 70# and
            in deep, rich colors.

            I've purchased some marbled works from those Moth Marblers in
            Sausalito and like their techniques - I'll be going for the more
            contemporary style with overpainting. . . . yes, a long way to go.
            Oh,what have I done? Gone and gotten myself a case of the marbling
            pox!


            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
            > you don't say what paint you use? Acrylics are more forgiving than
            > watercolor. Is the Permalin old stock?I now use NaturText from
            Atlantic
            > Papers in PA.
            > irisnevins
            >
            >
            >


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          • irisnevins
            I just wrote on the pros and cons of acrylic and watercolor for the Guild Of Bookworkers Journal, it will be out within 6-7 weeks, or maybe can be viewed
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 3, 2004
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              I just wrote on the pros and cons of acrylic and watercolor for the Guild
              Of Bookworkers Journal, it will be out within 6-7 weeks, or maybe can be
              viewed online at their site in a while. I no longer have the article, it
              got the them I know but got deleted on this end.

              I find the acryilics easier to use, but cannot use them for 17th-19th
              century reproduction which is what I mainly do. Otherwise I'd use them all
              the time.

              you may have older stock of Permalin, when that runs out, make sure when
              you order that you want a test sheet from the stock they will send. I did
              that and they sent me something different that did not work, they changed
              the chemistry. Basically, someone there said, yeah,yeah, sure, we always
              send the stock we sent test pieces of. I just got a 50% refund after many
              months arguing, which was wrong,it was their fault and they misled me, but
              they generally do not refund at all, I was just a pest. I have 3000 sheets
              i can't use. I have not tested with acrylics yet, haven't had time, but
              they may work a little better with them than watercolor. Still, I can't use
              them.I never do acrylic on paper, only on fabric.

              Iris Nevins
            • papermimi
              I ll be watching for your article, Iris. Peggy Skycraft does some gorgeous! acrylic marbling on paper . . .a quality to which I aspire. I also appreciate
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 3, 2004
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                I'll be watching for your article, Iris. Peggy Skycraft does some
                gorgeous! acrylic marbling on paper . . .a quality to which I
                aspire. I also appreciate your info re Permalin. I've been put in
                touch with the Ohio rep who advises there "may" be some non-buffered
                inventory available. . .I've told him I must have written assurance
                they are such and have asked for test sheets. I'm hopeful for a
                reply today.

                I've been reading the archives re papers and would add that I am also
                a handpapermaker. Recently, I tried marbling a sheet of cotton/abaca
                mix. My experience was similar to that of other. . .during the
                vatting process, I add a size to prevent the paper from soaking in
                huge quantities of expensive acrylics (once it's dried and cured, I
                paint it and otherwise build surface). . . . this paper did not
                accept the watercolor inks (only very faintly) with or without the
                mordant,perhaps because of the size. I also make a kozo/gampi/abaca
                blend which I will test today. I love kozo or gampi blended with
                abaca for use as journal texts, although it finishes in the press
                with a slight textural tooth, it writes smooth as silk. I especially
                enjoy showcasing these papers with the handmarbles.

                Pamela

                --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Message #2331 irisnevins
                <irisnevins@c...> wrote:

                > I just wrote on the pros and cons of acrylic and watercolor for the
                Guild
                > Of Bookworkers Journal, it will be out within 6-7 weeks, or maybe
                can be
                > viewed online at their site in a while. I no longer have the
                article, it
                > got the them I know but got deleted on this end.
                >
                > I find the acryilics easier to use, but cannot use them for 17th-
                19th
                > century reproduction which is what I mainly do. Otherwise I'd use
                them all
                > the time.
              • Gail MacKenzie
                ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 3, 2004
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                  > hello Papermimi...I have a suggestion for acryli8cs. Ruppert, Gibbon and
                  > Spider bought out the Jacquard line and did quite a bit of work and research
                  > to refigure a line of colors for marbling. Everything works together quite
                  > well...of course, there¹s still a little adjusting for the blackest of blacks!
                  > Good luck! Go to www.jacquardproducts.com Regards, Gail M.
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • papermimi
                  Thanks, Gail -- I did not know that about Jacquard merger (acquisition) -- headspinning changes going on in corporate US. How interesting. I have used
                  Message 8 of 11 , Mar 3, 2004
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                    Thanks, Gail -- I did not know that about Jacquard merger
                    (acquisition) -- headspinning changes going on in corporate US. How
                    interesting. I have used Jacquard extensively in my paperpainting
                    with great results, especially their Lumiere line. You don't say!
                    Hmmmmm seems that marbling just might be the next big wave if
                    Jacquard is offering a paint. hmmmmm I'll be off to investigate
                    this tidbit of info. Thanks Gail

                    Pamela



                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • papermimi
                    Thanks, Gail -- I did not know that about Jacquard merger (acquisition) -- headspinning changes going on in corporate US. How interesting. I have used
                    Message 9 of 11 , Mar 3, 2004
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                      Thanks, Gail -- I did not know that about Jacquard merger
                      (acquisition) -- headspinning changes going on in corporate US. How
                      interesting. I have used Jacquard extensively in my paperpainting
                      with great results, especially their Lumiere line. You don't say!
                      Hmmmmm seems that marbling just might be the next big wave if
                      Jacquard is offering a paint. hmmmmm I'll be off to investigate
                      this tidbit of info. Thanks Gail

                      Pamela



                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • irisnevins
                      Pamela....are you the Pamela from Ohio who called me earlier? I have been trying to call for hours but it is busy. It is best to email me offgroup:
                      Message 10 of 11 , Mar 3, 2004
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                        Pamela....are you the Pamela from Ohio who called me earlier? I have been
                        trying to call for hours but it is busy. It is best to email me offgroup:

                        irisnevins@...

                        this will work better than the phone, I will be away from it a lot the next
                        few days.

                        Thanks,
                        IrisNevins

                        Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        Thanks, Gail -- I did not know that about Jacquard merger
                        (acquisition) -- headspinning changes going on in corporate US. How
                        interesting. I have used Jacquard extensively in my paperpainting
                        with great results, especially their Lumiere line. You don't say!
                        Hmmmmm seems that marbling just might be the next big wave if
                        Jacquard is offering a paint. hmmmmm I'll be off to investigate
                        this tidbit of info. Thanks Gail

                        Pamela<
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