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new member post w/ questions!

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  • lalaks
    Hello everyone Just joined the list last night (oh no, not the xmas present?) when I found you all on a websearch for info about marbling. You guys sound like
    Message 1 of 2 , Dec 26, 2003
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      Hello everyone

      Just joined the list last night (oh no, not the xmas present?) when I
      found you all on a websearch for info about
      marbling. You guys sound like a great source of info, and I'm pleased
      that Jill was there to sign me up right
      away, b/c I"ve been trying this sport out this week and have LOTS of
      questions. It seems like an esoteric &
      quriky sort of art, marbling.

      First off, here's what I've tried: Canson classic cream 80# drawing
      paper, methylcel in a photo
      tray (washed as thoroly as possible, but maybe some dev/stop/fix
      residues?). I was heating it up w/ a heating
      pad underneath, but then noticed that Wendy Medeiros said ( Marbling
      Techniques book) the size should be
      distinclty cold to the touch. Big problem so far is that my acrylic
      paints, w/ liquitex flow aid in them, like to
      dive=bomb to the bottom. Seems like adding more Flow Aid hepls w/ that
      a bit, but I"m wondering if I need to
      just make up a new batch of methocel. The first, mixed at the
      proportions Madeiros gave---her book is what I
      have to go by so far--- of 4c boiling and then 4 c ice water to 4 round
      Tbsp methocel seemed too thick s I watered
      it down w/ an unmeasured quantity of warm water til it was like thick
      maple syrup. Should I make it thicker? It
      looks like an air war on the bottom of the tray, so much stuff has sunk.

      When I do get a good paint film on the size, the Canson takes it, but a
      considerble amount does wash off with the
      size, and the linear definition gets lost. ---only way I could get the
      size off was to rub it off the sheet gently. So After reading some
      posts here about alum, made up an alum bath (4Tbsp alum to 4 c water) &
      treated some sheets. Haven't tried them out yet,they need to be
      ironed, but ALSO, was reading that alum contaminztion of the size
      makes the whole batch stop working. I dipped the sheets, don't like the
      idea of spraying it---I have to avoid chemical exosures as much as
      possible, am trying this out after finding that photography is too toxic
      for me when I tried recently to go back to it. Any suggestions welcome!

      My next commenst/questions re the acrylics. Am using mostly more modern
      colors, due to toxicity, Golden Quindacridone red light, magenta, gold,
      hansa yellow light, blue/ green phthalo, green gold (need to check that
      one for toxicity, contains nickel maybe?). Also 3 old Bocour
      Iridesents--silver, red and violet, and several of the liquitex
      interference shades. It seems to me that in this assortment, there are a
      few colors with a bottom tinting strength that overpowers eveything
      else---the quinacridones and phthalos. Also maybe the Hansa Yellow.
      And,I"m wondering about the physical weight of the pigments---do some
      just sink more than others, or does it all depend more on how much flow
      aid or water is added?

      So I was wondering if I should spend the money for a set of the prepared
      marbling acrylics, to enable more
      sucessful results w/ the pigment weights and tinting strengths. Is this
      so, they're prepared to have less
      variation in both? It'd have to be really clear that more balance is
      available there for me to spend money on a set

      Wanted more subtle color, &to try one really beautiful muted green
      pigment I picked up last year---green earth---so tried mixing some dry
      earth pigments( Mars plus the siennas, umbers, gold ochre) up in
      some no-VOC wall glaze (cellulose, alcoholl estr, silica, carnauba wax,
      clay, water, food grade preservative.
      The earth pigments don't stay dispersed well in that as a medium, but
      they disperse like crazy on the size. The
      only thing is, they aren't visible on the paper, nor have any of the
      interference or metallic pigments showed up
      yet on my sheets. Anyone have info re acrylics---or any lines in any
      other media--- that have good earth tones/
      interference and metallics that pick up? and with what sort of size or
      paper, for a successful start? Has anyone tried mixing ther own paint
      from scratch? (interested in tryng powdered caseinalso) I'll need to
      get some basic acrylic polymer I guess as the wall glaze sn't going to
      work as a medium, at least for beginning experiements.

      Thanks for any &all comments/suggestions!

      Laurie
    • irisnevins
      What a lot of questions! I wish I could advise better but I do not use methyl cell, I just always liked carrageenan better. As for getting the paints to float
      Message 2 of 2 , Dec 26, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        What a lot of questions! I wish I could advise better but I do not use
        methyl cell, I just always liked carrageenan better. As for getting the
        paints to float and not dive-bomb, your size may be too thick, also you can
        try Photo-Flo, it might be a stronger dispersant.Many here like the Golden
        acrylics.

        Paint making is not so simple, as there is no "formula".....due to the
        physical and chemical properties, each pigment is treated differently. And
        Alum....stick to aluminum sulphate or aluminum potassium sulphate, they are
        the best for marbling. Different papers as well may have different sizings
        or amounts of buffer that will affect how the pain take, or doesn't take.

        Try and read many of the back posts here and learn from all our mistakes
        because the materials are fairly expensive and a shame to waste money on
        things that will not work.

        good luck,
        Iris Nevins

        Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        >
        Hello everyone

        Just joined the list last night (oh no, not the xmas present?) when I
        found you all on a websearch for info about
        marbling. You guys sound like a great source of info, and I'm pleased
        that Jill was there to sign me up right
        away, b/c I"ve been trying this sport out this week and have LOTS of
        questions. It seems like an esoteric &
        quriky sort of art, marbling.

        First off, here's what I've tried: Canson classic cream 80# drawing
        paper, methylcel in a photo
        tray (washed as thoroly as possible, but maybe some dev/stop/fix
        residues?). I was heating it up w/ a heating
        pad underneath, but then noticed that Wendy Medeiros said ( Marbling
        Techniques book) the size should be
        distinclty cold to the touch. Big problem so far is that my acrylic
        paints, w/ liquitex flow aid in them, like to
        dive=bomb to the bottom. Seems like adding more Flow Aid hepls w/ that
        a bit, but I"m wondering if I need to
        just make up a new batch of methocel. The first, mixed at the
        proportions Madeiros gave---her book is what I
        have to go by so far--- of 4c boiling and then 4 c ice water to 4 round
        Tbsp methocel seemed too thick s I watered
        it down w/ an unmeasured quantity of warm water til it was like thick
        maple syrup. Should I make it thicker? It
        looks like an air war on the bottom of the tray, so much stuff has sunk.

        When I do get a good paint film on the size, the Canson takes it, but a
        considerble amount does wash off with the
        size, and the linear definition gets lost. ---only way I could get the
        size off was to rub it off the sheet gently. So After reading some
        posts here about alum, made up an alum bath (4Tbsp alum to 4 c water) &
        treated some sheets. Haven't tried them out yet,they need to be
        ironed, but ALSO, was reading that alum contaminztion of the size
        makes the whole batch stop working. I dipped the sheets, don't like the
        idea of spraying it---I have to avoid chemical exosures as much as
        possible, am trying this out after finding that photography is too toxic
        for me when I tried recently to go back to it. Any suggestions welcome!

        My next commenst/questions re the acrylics. Am using mostly more modern
        colors, due to toxicity, Golden Quindacridone red light, magenta, gold,
        hansa yellow light, blue/ green phthalo, green gold (need to check that
        one for toxicity, contains nickel maybe?). Also 3 old Bocour
        Iridesents--silver, red and violet, and several of the liquitex
        interference shades. It seems to me that in this assortment, there are a
        few colors with a bottom tinting strength that overpowers eveything
        else---the quinacridones and phthalos. Also maybe the Hansa Yellow.
        And,I"m wondering about the physical weight of the pigments---do some
        just sink more than others, or does it all depend more on how much flow
        aid or water is added?

        So I was wondering if I should spend the money for a set of the prepared
        marbling acrylics, to enable more
        sucessful results w/ the pigment weights and tinting strengths. Is this
        so, they're prepared to have less
        variation in both? It'd have to be really clear that more balance is
        available there for me to spend money on a set

        Wanted more subtle color, &to try one really beautiful muted green
        pigment I picked up last year---green earth---so tried mixing some dry
        earth pigments( Mars plus the siennas, umbers, gold ochre) up in
        some no-VOC wall glaze (cellulose, alcoholl estr, silica, carnauba wax,
        clay, water, food grade preservative.
        The earth pigments don't stay dispersed well in that as a medium, but
        they disperse like crazy on the size. The
        only thing is, they aren't visible on the paper, nor have any of the
        interference or metallic pigments showed up
        yet on my sheets. Anyone have info re acrylics---or any lines in any
        other media--- that have good earth tones/
        interference and metallics that pick up? and with what sort of size or
        paper, for a successful start? Has anyone tried mixing ther own paint
        from scratch? (interested in tryng powdered caseinalso) I'll need to
        get some basic acrylic polymer I guess as the wall glaze sn't going to
        work as a medium, at least for beginning experiements.

        Thanks for any &all comments/suggestions!

        Laurie
        <
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