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Re: [Marbling] Re: Contaminated size

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  • Maria Vernersson
    OK. I have only marbled for two years and never full time. Even so I have produced quite a number of marbled papers WITHOUT EVER using alum. For the first six
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 10, 2003
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      OK.
      I have only marbled for two years and never full time. Even so I have
      produced quite a number of marbled papers WITHOUT EVER using alum. For the
      first six months this was because I used oil paint. However, since I
      found oil paint being messy, cumbersome, environmentally unsound, I
      changed to acrylics. Still no need for alum.
      I must admit that I never rinse the papers. I just rake them thoroughly
      with a window rake (sorry, I don't know whether that is a word. What I
      mean is one of those rubber thingies you use for window cleaning).
      Admittedly, when I changed to acrylic paint, I had to adjust my raking
      method somewhat and apply less pressure.
      Good quality paint is crucial.
      At the moment I am teaching my first marbling class at a very poor
      center and out of misguided charity I allowed them to order cheap
      secondary school quality crap acrylics. OCCASIONALLY the colours rub off,
      which has never happened to me before. They also behave very odd when
      mixed and we get problems with bleeding,which has never hqappened to me
      after I left oil paint.

      The bottom line of all this drivel is that I am a living proof that you
      don't need alum.
      Mind you, I might try alum one day, to see if it enhances colour quality,
      for example.
      But so far I am content with what I get.

      love
      maria vernersson

      Marbling@yahoogroups.com skriver:
      >If you don't want your acrylic paint to wash down the drain you do.
      >Need alum , that is. Methyl cel holds the pigment up on the surface
      >of itself. It's a physical/structual thing. It's not a chemical
      >thing. I don't know about oil paint; maybe it bonds to whatever well
      >enough alone. I just work with acrylics and if there is something
      >going wrong with the alum process, the final print shows it.
      >
      >Susa Glenn
      >
      >--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Maria Vernersson"
      ><maria.vernersson@f...> wrote:
      >> Forgive me for repeating myself:
      >> You don't NEED alum when you workwith methyl cell (and acrylic or
      >oil
      >> paint).
      >>
      >> maria
      >>
      >> Marbling@yahoogroups.com skriver:
      >> >Hi, All,
      >> >I know that when I studied with Milena, she emphasized the
      >importance of
      >> >thorough skimming after printing. We worked mostly with paper
      >and some
      >> >scarves on
      >> >carragheenan.
      >> >At Houston's quilt conference, I watched a demonstation by Elin
      >Noble on
      >> >marbling on fabric. She was working with methylcel. I was
      >intrigued
      >> >that after
      >> >pulling the print, she sort of "squished" the excess size off the
      >fabric
      >> >and
      >> >back into the tray! Seems to me that that would really
      >contaminate the
      >> >size,
      >> >yet I respect her experience and expertize. I can't help but
      >wonder if
      >> >methylcel is more resistant to contamination with alum....Perhaps
      >I am
      >> >phrasing that
      >> >question poorly. Guess I am asking how the two sizes differ in
      >response
      >> >to
      >> >alum. And guess I have some experimenting ahead of me as well
      >with both
      >> >sizes.
      >> >Happy holidays to all!
      >> >Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis
      >> >
      >> >
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      >> >[ http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ]http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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      >> >
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    • T.Alparslan BABAOGLU
      Hi Maria, I am happy to see there is somebody else out there who prefers not to use alum. No alum, no contamination, no washing . . . Regards Alparslan ...
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 10, 2003
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        Hi Maria,

        I am happy to see there is somebody else out there who prefers not to use
        alum.
        No alum, no contamination, no washing . . .

        Regards

        Alparslan


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Maria Vernersson [mailto:maria.vernersson@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:13 PM
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Contaminated size


        OK.
        I have only marbled for two years and never full time. Even so I have
        produced quite a number of marbled papers WITHOUT EVER using alum. For the
        first six months this was because I used oil paint. However, since I
        found oil paint being messy, cumbersome, environmentally unsound, I
        changed to acrylics. Still no need for alum.
        I must admit that I never rinse the papers. I just rake them thoroughly
        with a window rake (sorry, I don't know whether that is a word. What I
        mean is one of those rubber thingies you use for window cleaning).
        Admittedly, when I changed to acrylic paint, I had to adjust my raking
        method somewhat and apply less pressure.
        Good quality paint is crucial.
        At the moment I am teaching my first marbling class at a very poor
        center and out of misguided charity I allowed them to order cheap
        secondary school quality crap acrylics. OCCASIONALLY the colours rub off,
        which has never happened to me before. They also behave very odd when
        mixed and we get problems with bleeding,which has never hqappened to me
        after I left oil paint.

        The bottom line of all this drivel is that I am a living proof that you
        don't need alum.
        Mind you, I might try alum one day, to see if it enhances colour quality,
        for example.
        But so far I am content with what I get.

        love
        maria vernersson

        Marbling@yahoogroups.com skriver:
        >If you don't want your acrylic paint to wash down the drain you do.
        >Need alum , that is. Methyl cel holds the pigment up on the surface
        >of itself. It's a physical/structual thing. It's not a chemical
        >thing. I don't know about oil paint; maybe it bonds to whatever well
        >enough alone. I just work with acrylics and if there is something
        >going wrong with the alum process, the final print shows it.
        >
        >Susa Glenn
        >
        >--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Maria Vernersson"
        ><maria.vernersson@f...> wrote:
        >> Forgive me for repeating myself:
        >> You don't NEED alum when you workwith methyl cell (and acrylic or
        >oil
        >> paint).
        >>
        >> maria
        >>
        >> Marbling@yahoogroups.com skriver:
        >> >Hi, All,
        >> >I know that when I studied with Milena, she emphasized the
        >importance of
        >> >thorough skimming after printing. We worked mostly with paper
        >and some
        >> >scarves on
        >> >carragheenan.
        >> >At Houston's quilt conference, I watched a demonstation by Elin
        >Noble on
        >> >marbling on fabric. She was working with methylcel. I was
        >intrigued
        >> >that after
        >> >pulling the print, she sort of "squished" the excess size off the
        >fabric
        >> >and
        >> >back into the tray! Seems to me that that would really
        >contaminate the
        >> >size,
        >> >yet I respect her experience and expertize. I can't help but
        >wonder if
        >> >methylcel is more resistant to contamination with alum....Perhaps
        >I am
        >> >phrasing that
        >> >question poorly. Guess I am asking how the two sizes differ in
        >response
        >> >to
        >> >alum. And guess I have some experimenting ahead of me as well
        >with both
        >> >sizes.
        >> >Happy holidays to all!
        >> >Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        >> >ADVERTISEMENT
        >> >[
        >>
        >>[ http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12c5m0qjd/M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D
        >]http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12c5m0qjd/M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D
        >=egroupweb/S=1705785837:HM/EXP=1071011246/A=1853619/R=0/*[ http://www.n
        >]http://www.n
        >etflix.com/Default?mqso=60178356&partid=4116732
        >> >][
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        >> >]click here
        >> >
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        >> >]»
        >> >
        >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the [
        >> >[ http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ]http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >]Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        >> >
        >
        >
        >
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        >ADVERTISEMENT
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • irisnevins
        I don t need alum as a rule with my acrylics if excess is not used, and the colors are very bright. It also depends on the paper used. Oils never need it. If
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 10, 2003
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          I don't need alum as a rule with my acrylics if excess is not used, and the
          colors are very bright. It also depends on the paper used.

          Oils never need it. If worked with properly and they are not forced into
          imitation of traditional historic marbling patterns they have a beauty all
          their own, such as the way Kay Radcliffe works with them. I don't believe
          them especially environmentally unsound(though I know othere disagree), as
          people have used them in art supplies for eons with no especially bad
          results, it may be more the additives and thinners that can be toxic if
          inhaled or consumed to excess.

          Iris Nevins

          Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
          >
          OK.
          I have only marbled for two years and never full time. Even so I have
          produced quite a number of marbled papers WITHOUT EVER using alum. For the
          first six months this was because I used oil paint. However, since I
          found oil paint being messy, cumbersome, environmentally unsound, I
          changed to acrylics. Still no need for alum.
          I must admit that I never rinse the papers. I just rake them thoroughly
          with a window rake (sorry, I don't know whether that is a word. What I
          mean is one of those rubber thingies you use for window cleaning).
          Admittedly, when I changed to acrylic paint, I had to adjust my raking
          method somewhat and apply less pressure.
          Good quality paint is crucial.
          At the moment I am teaching my first marbling class at a very poor
          center and out of misguided charity I allowed them to order cheap
          secondary school quality crap acrylics. OCCASIONALLY the colours rub off,
          which has never happened to me before. They also behave very odd when
          mixed and we get problems with bleeding,which has never hqappened to me
          after I left oil paint.

          The bottom line of all this drivel is that I am a living proof that you
          don't need alum.
          Mind you, I might try alum one day, to see if it enhances colour quality,
          for example.
          But so far I am content with what I get.

          love
          maria vernersson<
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