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Re: [Marbling] Contaminated size

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  • Maria Vernersson
    Forgive me for repeating myself: You don t NEED alum when you workwith methyl cell (and acrylic or oil paint). maria
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 9, 2003
      Forgive me for repeating myself:
      You don't NEED alum when you workwith methyl cell (and acrylic or oil
      paint).

      maria

      Marbling@yahoogroups.com skriver:
      >Hi, All,
      >I know that when I studied with Milena, she emphasized the importance of
      >thorough skimming after printing. We worked mostly with paper and some
      >scarves on
      >carragheenan.
      >At Houston's quilt conference, I watched a demonstation by Elin Noble on
      >marbling on fabric. She was working with methylcel. I was intrigued
      >that after
      >pulling the print, she sort of "squished" the excess size off the fabric
      >and
      >back into the tray! Seems to me that that would really contaminate the
      >size,
      >yet I respect her experience and expertize. I can't help but wonder if
      >methylcel is more resistant to contamination with alum....Perhaps I am
      >phrasing that
      >question poorly. Guess I am asking how the two sizes differ in response
      >to
      >alum. And guess I have some experimenting ahead of me as well with both
      >sizes.
      >Happy holidays to all!
      >Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis
      >
      >
      >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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    • Susa Glenn
      If you don t want your acrylic paint to wash down the drain you do. Need alum , that is. Methyl cel holds the pigment up on the surface of itself. It s a
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 9, 2003
        If you don't want your acrylic paint to wash down the drain you do.
        Need alum , that is. Methyl cel holds the pigment up on the surface
        of itself. It's a physical/structual thing. It's not a chemical
        thing. I don't know about oil paint; maybe it bonds to whatever well
        enough alone. I just work with acrylics and if there is something
        going wrong with the alum process, the final print shows it.

        Susa Glenn

        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Maria Vernersson"
        <maria.vernersson@f...> wrote:
        > Forgive me for repeating myself:
        > You don't NEED alum when you workwith methyl cell (and acrylic or
        oil
        > paint).
        >
        > maria
        >
        > Marbling@yahoogroups.com skriver:
        > >Hi, All,
        > >I know that when I studied with Milena, she emphasized the
        importance of
        > >thorough skimming after printing. We worked mostly with paper
        and some
        > >scarves on
        > >carragheenan.
        > >At Houston's quilt conference, I watched a demonstation by Elin
        Noble on
        > >marbling on fabric. She was working with methylcel. I was
        intrigued
        > >that after
        > >pulling the print, she sort of "squished" the excess size off the
        fabric
        > >and
        > >back into the tray! Seems to me that that would really
        contaminate the
        > >size,
        > >yet I respect her experience and expertize. I can't help but
        wonder if
        > >methylcel is more resistant to contamination with alum....Perhaps
        I am
        > >phrasing that
        > >question poorly. Guess I am asking how the two sizes differ in
        response
        > >to
        > >alum. And guess I have some experimenting ahead of me as well
        with both
        > >sizes.
        > >Happy holidays to all!
        > >Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis
        > >
        > >
        > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > >ADVERTISEMENT
        > >[
        >
        >http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12c5m0qjd/M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D
        =egroupweb/S=1705785837:HM/EXP=1071011246/A=1853619/R=0/*http://www.n
        etflix.com/Default?mqso=60178356&partid=4116732
        > >][
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        > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the [
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        > >
      • Maria Vernersson
        OK. I have only marbled for two years and never full time. Even so I have produced quite a number of marbled papers WITHOUT EVER using alum. For the first six
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 10, 2003
          OK.
          I have only marbled for two years and never full time. Even so I have
          produced quite a number of marbled papers WITHOUT EVER using alum. For the
          first six months this was because I used oil paint. However, since I
          found oil paint being messy, cumbersome, environmentally unsound, I
          changed to acrylics. Still no need for alum.
          I must admit that I never rinse the papers. I just rake them thoroughly
          with a window rake (sorry, I don't know whether that is a word. What I
          mean is one of those rubber thingies you use for window cleaning).
          Admittedly, when I changed to acrylic paint, I had to adjust my raking
          method somewhat and apply less pressure.
          Good quality paint is crucial.
          At the moment I am teaching my first marbling class at a very poor
          center and out of misguided charity I allowed them to order cheap
          secondary school quality crap acrylics. OCCASIONALLY the colours rub off,
          which has never happened to me before. They also behave very odd when
          mixed and we get problems with bleeding,which has never hqappened to me
          after I left oil paint.

          The bottom line of all this drivel is that I am a living proof that you
          don't need alum.
          Mind you, I might try alum one day, to see if it enhances colour quality,
          for example.
          But so far I am content with what I get.

          love
          maria vernersson

          Marbling@yahoogroups.com skriver:
          >If you don't want your acrylic paint to wash down the drain you do.
          >Need alum , that is. Methyl cel holds the pigment up on the surface
          >of itself. It's a physical/structual thing. It's not a chemical
          >thing. I don't know about oil paint; maybe it bonds to whatever well
          >enough alone. I just work with acrylics and if there is something
          >going wrong with the alum process, the final print shows it.
          >
          >Susa Glenn
          >
          >--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Maria Vernersson"
          ><maria.vernersson@f...> wrote:
          >> Forgive me for repeating myself:
          >> You don't NEED alum when you workwith methyl cell (and acrylic or
          >oil
          >> paint).
          >>
          >> maria
          >>
          >> Marbling@yahoogroups.com skriver:
          >> >Hi, All,
          >> >I know that when I studied with Milena, she emphasized the
          >importance of
          >> >thorough skimming after printing. We worked mostly with paper
          >and some
          >> >scarves on
          >> >carragheenan.
          >> >At Houston's quilt conference, I watched a demonstation by Elin
          >Noble on
          >> >marbling on fabric. She was working with methylcel. I was
          >intrigued
          >> >that after
          >> >pulling the print, she sort of "squished" the excess size off the
          >fabric
          >> >and
          >> >back into the tray! Seems to me that that would really
          >contaminate the
          >> >size,
          >> >yet I respect her experience and expertize. I can't help but
          >wonder if
          >> >methylcel is more resistant to contamination with alum....Perhaps
          >I am
          >> >phrasing that
          >> >question poorly. Guess I am asking how the two sizes differ in
          >response
          >> >to
          >> >alum. And guess I have some experimenting ahead of me as well
          >with both
          >> >sizes.
          >> >Happy holidays to all!
          >> >Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >> >ADVERTISEMENT
          >> >[
          >>
          >>[ http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12c5m0qjd/M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D
          >]http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12c5m0qjd/M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D
          >=egroupweb/S=1705785837:HM/EXP=1071011246/A=1853619/R=0/*[ http://www.n
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          >> >
          >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the [
          >> >[ http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ]http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >]Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >> >
          >
          >
          >
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          >ADVERTISEMENT
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        • T.Alparslan BABAOGLU
          Hi Maria, I am happy to see there is somebody else out there who prefers not to use alum. No alum, no contamination, no washing . . . Regards Alparslan ...
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 10, 2003
            Hi Maria,

            I am happy to see there is somebody else out there who prefers not to use
            alum.
            No alum, no contamination, no washing . . .

            Regards

            Alparslan


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Maria Vernersson [mailto:maria.vernersson@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:13 PM
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
            Cc: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Contaminated size


            OK.
            I have only marbled for two years and never full time. Even so I have
            produced quite a number of marbled papers WITHOUT EVER using alum. For the
            first six months this was because I used oil paint. However, since I
            found oil paint being messy, cumbersome, environmentally unsound, I
            changed to acrylics. Still no need for alum.
            I must admit that I never rinse the papers. I just rake them thoroughly
            with a window rake (sorry, I don't know whether that is a word. What I
            mean is one of those rubber thingies you use for window cleaning).
            Admittedly, when I changed to acrylic paint, I had to adjust my raking
            method somewhat and apply less pressure.
            Good quality paint is crucial.
            At the moment I am teaching my first marbling class at a very poor
            center and out of misguided charity I allowed them to order cheap
            secondary school quality crap acrylics. OCCASIONALLY the colours rub off,
            which has never happened to me before. They also behave very odd when
            mixed and we get problems with bleeding,which has never hqappened to me
            after I left oil paint.

            The bottom line of all this drivel is that I am a living proof that you
            don't need alum.
            Mind you, I might try alum one day, to see if it enhances colour quality,
            for example.
            But so far I am content with what I get.

            love
            maria vernersson

            Marbling@yahoogroups.com skriver:
            >If you don't want your acrylic paint to wash down the drain you do.
            >Need alum , that is. Methyl cel holds the pigment up on the surface
            >of itself. It's a physical/structual thing. It's not a chemical
            >thing. I don't know about oil paint; maybe it bonds to whatever well
            >enough alone. I just work with acrylics and if there is something
            >going wrong with the alum process, the final print shows it.
            >
            >Susa Glenn
            >
            >--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Maria Vernersson"
            ><maria.vernersson@f...> wrote:
            >> Forgive me for repeating myself:
            >> You don't NEED alum when you workwith methyl cell (and acrylic or
            >oil
            >> paint).
            >>
            >> maria
            >>
            >> Marbling@yahoogroups.com skriver:
            >> >Hi, All,
            >> >I know that when I studied with Milena, she emphasized the
            >importance of
            >> >thorough skimming after printing. We worked mostly with paper
            >and some
            >> >scarves on
            >> >carragheenan.
            >> >At Houston's quilt conference, I watched a demonstation by Elin
            >Noble on
            >> >marbling on fabric. She was working with methylcel. I was
            >intrigued
            >> >that after
            >> >pulling the print, she sort of "squished" the excess size off the
            >fabric
            >> >and
            >> >back into the tray! Seems to me that that would really
            >contaminate the
            >> >size,
            >> >yet I respect her experience and expertize. I can't help but
            >wonder if
            >> >methylcel is more resistant to contamination with alum....Perhaps
            >I am
            >> >phrasing that
            >> >question poorly. Guess I am asking how the two sizes differ in
            >response
            >> >to
            >> >alum. And guess I have some experimenting ahead of me as well
            >with both
            >> >sizes.
            >> >Happy holidays to all!
            >> >Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            >> >ADVERTISEMENT
            >> >[
            >>
            >>[ http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12c5m0qjd/M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D
            >]http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12c5m0qjd/M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D
            >=egroupweb/S=1705785837:HM/EXP=1071011246/A=1853619/R=0/*[ http://www.n
            >]http://www.n
            >etflix.com/Default?mqso=60178356&partid=4116732
            >> >][
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            >> >]click here
            >> >
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            >> >]»
            >> >
            >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the [
            >> >[ http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ]http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >]Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            >> >
            >
            >
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            >ADVERTISEMENT
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • irisnevins
            I don t need alum as a rule with my acrylics if excess is not used, and the colors are very bright. It also depends on the paper used. Oils never need it. If
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 10, 2003
              I don't need alum as a rule with my acrylics if excess is not used, and the
              colors are very bright. It also depends on the paper used.

              Oils never need it. If worked with properly and they are not forced into
              imitation of traditional historic marbling patterns they have a beauty all
              their own, such as the way Kay Radcliffe works with them. I don't believe
              them especially environmentally unsound(though I know othere disagree), as
              people have used them in art supplies for eons with no especially bad
              results, it may be more the additives and thinners that can be toxic if
              inhaled or consumed to excess.

              Iris Nevins

              Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
              >
              OK.
              I have only marbled for two years and never full time. Even so I have
              produced quite a number of marbled papers WITHOUT EVER using alum. For the
              first six months this was because I used oil paint. However, since I
              found oil paint being messy, cumbersome, environmentally unsound, I
              changed to acrylics. Still no need for alum.
              I must admit that I never rinse the papers. I just rake them thoroughly
              with a window rake (sorry, I don't know whether that is a word. What I
              mean is one of those rubber thingies you use for window cleaning).
              Admittedly, when I changed to acrylic paint, I had to adjust my raking
              method somewhat and apply less pressure.
              Good quality paint is crucial.
              At the moment I am teaching my first marbling class at a very poor
              center and out of misguided charity I allowed them to order cheap
              secondary school quality crap acrylics. OCCASIONALLY the colours rub off,
              which has never happened to me before. They also behave very odd when
              mixed and we get problems with bleeding,which has never hqappened to me
              after I left oil paint.

              The bottom line of all this drivel is that I am a living proof that you
              don't need alum.
              Mind you, I might try alum one day, to see if it enhances colour quality,
              for example.
              But so far I am content with what I get.

              love
              maria vernersson<
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