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Re: [Marbling] contaminated size

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  • DaveorRobin Olson
    Dear Angela, I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this problem both with paper and fabric. I
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 8, 2003
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      Dear Angela,
      I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
      problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
      problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
      contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
      better between scarves.Always use the directions on
      the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
      problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
      weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
      response. Good Luck.
      Robin Olson, Chicago
      --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@...> wrote:
      > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
      > contaminated about
      > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
      > blank spots in the
      > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
      > carrageenan as my
      > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
      > size was the
      > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
      > the weather was
      > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
      > just moved my work
      > indoors and am having the same problem and the
      > temperature is about
      > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
      > do I clean them?
      > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
      > further contaminate
      > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
      > almost no humidity,
      > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
      > skim using
      > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
      > Any suggestions
      > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
      > although I can
      > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
      > flaw, I would
      > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
      > make enough
      > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
      > with a mind of
      > its own. Thanks!
      >
      > Angie
      >
      >


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    • Angela Drake
      I m curious as to how the alum contaminates the tank. Does excess alum not soak into the fabric and then releases itself on the surface of the size? I have
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 8, 2003
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        I'm curious as to how the alum contaminates the tank. Does excess
        alum not soak into the fabric and then releases itself on the surface
        of the size? I have had the opposite response about skimming the
        tank... some think I skim to often and am diluting the size. I have
        a lot of experimenting to do this week!

        Angie

        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
        wrote:
        > Dear Angela,
        > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
        > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
        > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
        > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
        > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
        > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
        > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
        > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
        > response. Good Luck.
        > Robin Olson, Chicago
        > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
        > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
        > > contaminated about
        > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
        > > blank spots in the
        > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
        > > carrageenan as my
        > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
        > > size was the
        > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
        > > the weather was
        > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
        > > just moved my work
        > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
        > > temperature is about
        > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
        > > do I clean them?
        > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
        > > further contaminate
        > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
        > > almost no humidity,
        > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
        > > skim using
        > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
        > > Any suggestions
        > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
        > > although I can
        > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
        > > flaw, I would
        > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
        > > make enough
        > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
        > > with a mind of
        > > its own. Thanks!
        > >
        > > Angie
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
        > Do you Yahoo!?
        > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
        > http://photos.yahoo.com/
      • gretchen vansant
        You do have some experimenting to do Angela,I will say this....not all paints work in carreggeenan,and not all visa versa,with methol cell. Good luck
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 8, 2003
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          You do have some experimenting to do Angela,I will say this....not all paints work in carreggeenan,and not all visa versa,with methol cell. Good luck gretchen


          Angela Drake <angiedrake@...> wrote:
          I'm curious as to how the alum contaminates the tank. Does excess
          alum not soak into the fabric and then releases itself on the surface
          of the size? I have had the opposite response about skimming the
          tank... some think I skim to often and am diluting the size. I have
          a lot of experimenting to do this week!

          Angie

          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
          wrote:
          > Dear Angela,
          > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
          > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
          > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
          > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
          > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
          > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
          > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
          > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
          > response. Good Luck.
          > Robin Olson, Chicago
          > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
          > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
          > > contaminated about
          > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
          > > blank spots in the
          > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
          > > carrageenan as my
          > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
          > > size was the
          > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
          > > the weather was
          > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
          > > just moved my work
          > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
          > > temperature is about
          > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
          > > do I clean them?
          > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
          > > further contaminate
          > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
          > > almost no humidity,
          > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
          > > skim using
          > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
          > > Any suggestions
          > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
          > > although I can
          > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
          > > flaw, I would
          > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
          > > make enough
          > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
          > > with a mind of
          > > its own. Thanks!
          > >
          > > Angie
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
          > http://photos.yahoo.com/


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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • peggy skycraft
          Dear Angela: I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few seconds. Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is. Try adding
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 10, 2003
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            Dear Angela:

            I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few "seconds."
            Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.

            Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken pattern
            and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.) Dissolve
            a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath (about
            two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a problem,
            add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
            your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add Calgon
            (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.

            There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
            worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh size
            and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic bacterial
            degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)

            Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
            Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it to be
            a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive carrageen.

            I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much dissolved
            acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be that
            the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.

            Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what the
            temprature or humidity is.

            Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
            Calgon solves this too.

            Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush. Rinse
            well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
            think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such are
            used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if I
            want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
            acrylic at all.

            Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.

            Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can be
            dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
            evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf in
            the size.

            Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the marbling.
            Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
            into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
            with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
            rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.

            Yours, Peggy Skycraft

            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
            wrote:
            > Dear Angela,
            > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
            > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
            > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
            > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
            > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
            > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
            > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
            > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
            > response. Good Luck.
            > Robin Olson, Chicago
            > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
            > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
            > > contaminated about
            > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
            > > blank spots in the
            > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
            > > carrageenan as my
            > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
            > > size was the
            > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
            > > the weather was
            > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
            > > just moved my work
            > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
            > > temperature is about
            > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
            > > do I clean them?
            > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
            > > further contaminate
            > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
            > > almost no humidity,
            > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
            > > skim using
            > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
            > > Any suggestions
            > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
            > > although I can
            > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
            > > flaw, I would
            > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
            > > make enough
            > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
            > > with a mind of
            > > its own. Thanks!
            > >
            > > Angie
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
            > http://photos.yahoo.com/
          • Gail MacKenzie
            ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 10, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              > Hello,
              > I¹ve been away and seem to have missed the beginning of this thread, but here
              > is my 2 cents. Alum contamination leaves jaggedly edges that resist being
              > combed and leave ragged holes in the pattern...no lumps or bumps. You can
              > sink the alum holes and spot clean the contamination with a piece of
              > newspaper. Another problem may be the PH of the size and of the pigments you
              > are using. They should be just about the same temperature and the same PH.
              > Now your size PH can be tested with some PH tape (try your local, small
              > pharmacy) as for the pigments, you¹ll need a PH meter or several pleading and
              > insisting phone calls to your supplier to tell you what is the PH of their
              > product. Here¹s where white vinegar, soda ash and ammonia come into play..to
              > adjust the PH levels of your size. If you are using distilled water it will
              > be around a 7 and this should work well with pigments that are as high as 9.
              > What is your water source? Pure sodium hexemetaphosphate will soften your
              > water but it will not change the PH. The powdered Calgon (scented somewhat)
              > that you order from Benkiser will raise your PH. I also found out that is is
              > a great for cleaning and polishing stainless ! Best wishes, Gail M.
              >
              > Dear Angela:
              >
              > I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few "seconds."
              > Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.
              >
              > Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken pattern
              > and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.) Dissolve
              > a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath (about
              > two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a problem,
              > add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
              > your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add Calgon
              > (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.
              >
              > There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
              > worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh size
              > and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic bacterial
              > degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)
              >
              > Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
              > Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it to be
              > a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive carrageen.
              >
              > I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much dissolved
              > acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be that
              > the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.
              >
              > Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what the
              > temprature or humidity is.
              >
              > Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
              > Calgon solves this too.
              >
              > Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush. Rinse
              > well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
              > think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such are
              > used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if I
              > want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
              > acrylic at all.
              >
              > Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.
              >
              > Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can be
              > dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
              > evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf in
              > the size.
              >
              > Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the marbling.
              > Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
              > into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
              > with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
              > rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.
              >
              > Yours, Peggy Skycraft
              >
              > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
              > wrote:
              >> > Dear Angela,
              >> > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
              >> > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
              >> > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
              >> > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
              >> > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
              >> > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
              >> > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
              >> > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
              >> > response. Good Luck.
              >> > Robin Olson, Chicago
              >> > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
              >>> > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
              >>> > > contaminated about
              >>> > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
              >>> > > blank spots in the
              >>> > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
              >>> > > carrageenan as my
              >>> > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
              >>> > > size was the
              >>> > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
              >>> > > the weather was
              >>> > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
              >>> > > just moved my work
              >>> > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
              >>> > > temperature is about
              >>> > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
              >>> > > do I clean them?
              >>> > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
              >>> > > further contaminate
              >>> > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
              >>> > > almost no humidity,
              >>> > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
              >>> > > skim using
              >>> > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
              >>> > > Any suggestions
              >>> > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
              >>> > > although I can
              >>> > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
              >>> > > flaw, I would
              >>> > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
              >>> > > make enough
              >>> > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
              >>> > > with a mind of
              >>> > > its own. Thanks!
              >>> > >
              >>> > > Angie
              >>> > >
              >>> > >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > __________________________________
              >> > Do you Yahoo!?
              >> > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
              >> > http://photos.yahoo.com/
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
              > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • irisnevins
              Does all this just apply to acrylics? What about Calgon with watercolors? Not that I have any complaints.....sometimes ignorance is bliss. When I was figuring
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 10, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                Does all this just apply to acrylics? What about Calgon with watercolors?
                Not that I have any complaints.....sometimes ignorance is bliss. When I was
                figuring out marbling on my own with no one telling me right and wrong, I
                just merrily used my extremely hard tapwater for everything and it always
                worked. When I tried other things that were supposed to work they didn't.
                I'll try anything in an attempt to make things easier and better, but if
                anyone knows of the effect of these things on watercolor prior to my
                experimenting and wasting time and materials I'd be interested. I know
                Borax in the size is hell on my watercolors, as is water that comes from a
                watersoftener...things go pale and fuzzy. I have learned to make "just
                enough" size for the day though and have no interest in preserving it.
                After doing over 100 sheets it's shot anyway, full of filth and you can
                barely see anyway.

                iris nevins

                Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Hello,
                > I¹ve been away and seem to have missed the beginning of this thread, but
                here
                > is my 2 cents. Alum contamination leaves jaggedly edges that resist
                being
                > combed and leave ragged holes in the pattern...no lumps or bumps. You
                can
                > sink the alum holes and spot clean the contamination with a piece of
                > newspaper. Another problem may be the PH of the size and of the pigments
                you
                > are using. They should be just about the same temperature and the same
                PH.
                > Now your size PH can be tested with some PH tape (try your local, small
                > pharmacy) as for the pigments, you¹ll need a PH meter or several pleading
                and
                > insisting phone calls to your supplier to tell you what is the PH of
                their
                > product. Here¹s where white vinegar, soda ash and ammonia come into
                play..to
                > adjust the PH levels of your size. If you are using distilled water it
                will
                > be around a 7 and this should work well with pigments that are as high as
                9.
                > What is your water source? Pure sodium hexemetaphosphate will soften
                your
                > water but it will not change the PH. The powdered Calgon (scented
                somewhat)
                > that you order from Benkiser will raise your PH. I also found out that
                is is
                > a great for cleaning and polishing stainless ! Best wishes, Gail M.
                >
                > Dear Angela:
                >
                > I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few "seconds."
                > Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.
                >
                > Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken pattern
                > and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.) Dissolve
                > a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath (about
                > two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a problem,
                > add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
                > your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add Calgon
                > (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.
                >
                > There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
                > worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh size
                > and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic bacterial
                > degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)
                >
                > Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
                > Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it to be
                > a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive carrageen.
                >
                > I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much dissolved
                > acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be that
                > the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.
                >
                > Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what the
                > temprature or humidity is.
                >
                > Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
                > Calgon solves this too.
                >
                > Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush. Rinse
                > well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
                > think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such are
                > used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if I
                > want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
                > acrylic at all.
                >
                > Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.
                >
                > Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can be
                > dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
                > evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf in
                > the size.
                >
                > Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the marbling.
                > Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
                > into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
                > with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
                > rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.
                >
                > Yours, Peggy Skycraft
                >
                > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
                > wrote:
                >> > Dear Angela,
                >> > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
                >> > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
                >> > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
                >> > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
                >> > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
                >> > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
                >> > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
                >> > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
                >> > response. Good Luck.
                >> > Robin Olson, Chicago
                >> > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
                >>> > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
                >>> > > contaminated about
                >>> > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
                >>> > > blank spots in the
                >>> > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
                >>> > > carrageenan as my
                >>> > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
                >>> > > size was the
                >>> > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
                >>> > > the weather was
                >>> > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
                >>> > > just moved my work
                >>> > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
                >>> > > temperature is about
                >>> > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
                >>> > > do I clean them?
                >>> > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
                >>> > > further contaminate
                >>> > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
                >>> > > almost no humidity,
                >>> > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
                >>> > > skim using
                >>> > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
                >>> > > Any suggestions
                >>> > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
                >>> > > although I can
                >>> > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
                >>> > > flaw, I would
                >>> > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
                >>> > > make enough
                >>> > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
                >>> > > with a mind of
                >>> > > its own. Thanks!
                >>> > >
                >>> > > Angie
                >>> > >
                >>> > >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > __________________________________
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                Subject: Re: [Marbling] Fix your troublesome size
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              • carylhanc@aol.com
                Hi, Peggy, Thank you for your thoughtful suggestions on working with size. Are you working with methylcel or carragheenan? I apologize if you hve mentioned
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 11, 2003
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                  Hi, Peggy,
                  Thank you for your thoughtful suggestions on working with size. Are you
                  working with methylcel or carragheenan? I apologize if you hve mentioned that in
                  your previous posts....
                  Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis
                • Gail MacKenzie
                  ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 11, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    > I don¹t know, Iris. I¹ll try some of your paints after I finish my run today
                    > and see what happens!! Gail
                    >
                    > Does all this just apply to acrylics? What about Calgon with watercolors?
                    > Not that I have any complaints.....sometimes ignorance is bliss. When I was
                    > figuring out marbling on my own with no one telling me right and wrong, I
                    > just merrily used my extremely hard tapwater for everything and it always
                    > worked. When I tried other things that were supposed to work they didn't.
                    > I'll try anything in an attempt to make things easier and better, but if
                    > anyone knows of the effect of these things on watercolor prior to my
                    > experimenting and wasting time and materials I'd be interested. I know
                    > Borax in the size is hell on my watercolors, as is water that comes from a
                    > watersoftener...things go pale and fuzzy. I have learned to make "just
                    > enough" size for the day though and have no interest in preserving it.
                    > After doing over 100 sheets it's shot anyway, full of filth and you can
                    > barely see anyway.
                    >
                    > iris nevins
                    >
                    > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                    >> >
                    >> > Hello,
                    >> > I¹ve been away and seem to have missed the beginning of this thread, but
                    > here
                    >> > is my 2 cents. Alum contamination leaves jaggedly edges that resist
                    > being
                    >> > combed and leave ragged holes in the pattern...no lumps or bumps. You
                    > can
                    >> > sink the alum holes and spot clean the contamination with a piece of
                    >> > newspaper. Another problem may be the PH of the size and of the pigments
                    > you
                    >> > are using. They should be just about the same temperature and the same
                    > PH.
                    >> > Now your size PH can be tested with some PH tape (try your local, small
                    >> > pharmacy) as for the pigments, you¹ll need a PH meter or several pleading
                    > and
                    >> > insisting phone calls to your supplier to tell you what is the PH of
                    > their
                    >> > product. Here¹s where white vinegar, soda ash and ammonia come into
                    > play..to
                    >> > adjust the PH levels of your size. If you are using distilled water it
                    > will
                    >> > be around a 7 and this should work well with pigments that are as high as
                    > 9.
                    >> > What is your water source? Pure sodium hexemetaphosphate will soften
                    > your
                    >> > water but it will not change the PH. The powdered Calgon (scented
                    > somewhat)
                    >> > that you order from Benkiser will raise your PH. I also found out that
                    > is is
                    >> > a great for cleaning and polishing stainless ! Best wishes, Gail M.
                    >> >
                    >> > Dear Angela:
                    >> >
                    >> > I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few "seconds."
                    >> > Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.
                    >> >
                    >> > Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken pattern
                    >> > and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.) Dissolve
                    >> > a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath (about
                    >> > two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a problem,
                    >> > add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
                    >> > your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add Calgon
                    >> > (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.
                    >> >
                    >> > There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
                    >> > worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh size
                    >> > and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic bacterial
                    >> > degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)
                    >> >
                    >> > Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
                    >> > Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it to be
                    >> > a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive carrageen.
                    >> >
                    >> > I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much dissolved
                    >> > acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be that
                    >> > the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.
                    >> >
                    >> > Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what the
                    >> > temprature or humidity is.
                    >> >
                    >> > Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
                    >> > Calgon solves this too.
                    >> >
                    >> > Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush. Rinse
                    >> > well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
                    >> > think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such are
                    >> > used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if I
                    >> > want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
                    >> > acrylic at all.
                    >> >
                    >> > Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.
                    >> >
                    >> > Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can be
                    >> > dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
                    >> > evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf in
                    >> > the size.
                    >> >
                    >> > Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the marbling.
                    >> > Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
                    >> > into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
                    >> > with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
                    >> > rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.
                    >> >
                    >> > Yours, Peggy Skycraft
                    >> >
                    >> > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
                    >> > wrote:
                    >>>> >> > Dear Angela,
                    >>>> >> > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
                    >>>> >> > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
                    >>>> >> > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
                    >>>> >> > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
                    >>>> >> > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
                    >>>> >> > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
                    >>>> >> > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
                    >>>> >> > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
                    >>>> >> > response. Good Luck.
                    >>>> >> > Robin Olson, Chicago
                    >>>> >> > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
                    >>>>>> >>> > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
                    >>>>>> >>> > > contaminated about
                    >>>>>> >>> > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
                    >>>>>> >>> > > blank spots in the
                    >>>>>> >>> > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
                    >>>>>> >>> > > carrageenan as my
                    >>>>>> >>> > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
                    >>>>>> >>> > > size was the
                    >>>>>> >>> > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
                    >>>>>> >>> > > the weather was
                    >>>>>> >>> > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
                    >>>>>> >>> > > just moved my work
                    >>>>>> >>> > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
                    >>>>>> >>> > > temperature is about
                    >>>>>> >>> > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
                    >>>>>> >>> > > do I clean them?
                    >>>>>> >>> > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
                    >>>>>> >>> > > further contaminate
                    >>>>>> >>> > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
                    >>>>>> >>> > > almost no humidity,
                    >>>>>> >>> > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
                    >>>>>> >>> > > skim using
                    >>>>>> >>> > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
                    >>>>>> >>> > > Any suggestions
                    >>>>>> >>> > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
                    >>>>>> >>> > > although I can
                    >>>>>> >>> > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
                    >>>>>> >>> > > flaw, I would
                    >>>>>> >>> > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
                    >>>>>> >>> > > make enough
                    >>>>>> >>> > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
                    >>>>>> >>> > > with a mind of
                    >>>>>> >>> > > its own. Thanks!
                    >>>>>> >>> > >
                    >>>>>> >>> > > Angie
                    >>>>>> >>> > >
                    >>>>>> >>> > >
                    >>>> >> >
                    >>>> >> >
                    >>>> >> > __________________________________
                    >>>> >> > Do you Yahoo!?
                    >>>> >> > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
                    >>>> >> > http://photos.yahoo.com/
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    >> >
                    >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                    >> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                    >> >
                    >
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Angela Drake
                    After two marbling sessions I haven t definetly solved my problem, but I am not having as much trouble either. From everyone s descriptions, I am pretty sure
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 11, 2003
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                      After two marbling sessions I haven't definetly solved my problem,
                      but I am not having as much trouble either. From everyone's
                      descriptions, I am pretty sure it is alum contamination. I had
                      increased the alum in my solution a couple of weeks ago. With a
                      weaker solution, I have had less trouble. Meticulous skimming has
                      helped. And I have also applied my paints more carefully (a very
                      hard thing, as I do like to fling the paint a little). When my vat
                      gets to the point that skimming doesn't help, I will try the calgon
                      (is this the same Calgon as in the "Calgon take me away" commercials?)

                      I have happily decided it is not the spectralite paints. They
                      disperse wonderfully, comb well and take to the fabric so well that I
                      didn't want to have to get rid of them. I can also dunk the finished
                      scarf in a bucket without concern that my pattern will come off.

                      The good news is that people seem to like the scarves I've shadow
                      marbled. Of course, I don't tell them that they were marbled a
                      second time because the first time I messed up!

                      Finally, thank you so much for all the responses. At first, I was a
                      little overwhelmed and began to doubt all that I had learned how to
                      do. But it is great to have so much response in so little time.
                      Some of the responses helped me "remember" to be more careful in
                      basic techniques (do we all get a little lazy with things we think we
                      understand?) and others have introduced ideas I hadn't heard of
                      before.

                      Angie




                      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "peggy skycraft" <peggy@s...> wrote:
                      > Dear Angela:
                      >
                      > I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very
                      few "seconds."
                      > Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.
                      >
                      > Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken pattern
                      > and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.)
                      Dissolve
                      > a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath
                      (about
                      > two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a problem,
                      > add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
                      > your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add Calgon
                      > (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.
                      >
                      > There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
                      > worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh
                      size
                      > and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic bacterial
                      > degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)
                      >
                      > Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
                      > Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it to
                      be
                      > a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive
                      carrageen.
                      >
                      > I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much dissolved
                      > acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be
                      that
                      > the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.
                      >
                      > Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what
                      the
                      > temprature or humidity is.
                      >
                      > Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
                      > Calgon solves this too.
                      >
                      > Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush.
                      Rinse
                      > well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
                      > think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such are
                      > used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if I
                      > want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
                      > acrylic at all.
                      >
                      > Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.
                      >
                      > Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can be
                      > dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
                      > evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf in
                      > the size.
                      >
                      > Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the
                      marbling.
                      > Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
                      > into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
                      > with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
                      > rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.
                      >
                      > Yours, Peggy Skycraft
                      >
                      > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
                      > wrote:
                      > > Dear Angela,
                      > > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
                      > > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
                      > > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
                      > > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
                      > > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
                      > > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
                      > > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
                      > > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
                      > > response. Good Luck.
                      > > Robin Olson, Chicago
                      > > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
                      > > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
                      > > > contaminated about
                      > > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
                      > > > blank spots in the
                      > > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
                      > > > carrageenan as my
                      > > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
                      > > > size was the
                      > > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
                      > > > the weather was
                      > > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
                      > > > just moved my work
                      > > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
                      > > > temperature is about
                      > > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
                      > > > do I clean them?
                      > > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
                      > > > further contaminate
                      > > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
                      > > > almost no humidity,
                      > > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
                      > > > skim using
                      > > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
                      > > > Any suggestions
                      > > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
                      > > > although I can
                      > > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
                      > > > flaw, I would
                      > > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
                      > > > make enough
                      > > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
                      > > > with a mind of
                      > > > its own. Thanks!
                      > > >
                      > > > Angie
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > __________________________________
                      > > Do you Yahoo!?
                      > > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
                      > > http://photos.yahoo.com/
                    • Angela Drake
                      Gail, I have been using tap water with no trouble until a couple of weeks ago. I know the Ph is low because we have to adjust the water for our fish tank...
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 11, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Gail,

                        I have been using tap water with no trouble until a couple of weeks
                        ago. I know the Ph is low because we have to adjust the water for
                        our fish tank... hadn't considered it a problem for the marbling.
                        Looks like I'll be purchasing some calgon. Thanks!

                        Angie

                        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Gail MacKenzie <gailmackenzi@s...>
                        wrote:
                        > > Hello,
                        > > I¹ve been away and seem to have missed the beginning of this
                        thread, but here
                        > > is my 2 cents. Alum contamination leaves jaggedly edges that
                        resist being
                        > > combed and leave ragged holes in the pattern...no lumps or
                        bumps. You can
                        > > sink the alum holes and spot clean the contamination with a piece
                        of
                        > > newspaper. Another problem may be the PH of the size and of the
                        pigments you
                        > > are using. They should be just about the same temperature and
                        the same PH.
                        > > Now your size PH can be tested with some PH tape (try your local,
                        small
                        > > pharmacy) as for the pigments, you¹ll need a PH meter or several
                        pleading and
                        > > insisting phone calls to your supplier to tell you what is the PH
                        of their
                        > > product. Here¹s where white vinegar, soda ash and ammonia come
                        into play..to
                        > > adjust the PH levels of your size. If you are using distilled
                        water it will
                        > > be around a 7 and this should work well with pigments that are as
                        high as 9.
                        > > What is your water source? Pure sodium hexemetaphosphate will
                        soften your
                        > > water but it will not change the PH. The powdered Calgon
                        (scented somewhat)
                        > > that you order from Benkiser will raise your PH. I also found
                        out that is is
                        > > a great for cleaning and polishing stainless ! Best wishes,
                        Gail M.
                        > >
                        > > Dear Angela:
                        > >
                        > > I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very
                        few "seconds."
                        > > Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.
                        > >
                        > > Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken
                        pattern
                        > > and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.)
                        Dissolve
                        > > a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath
                        (about
                        > > two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a
                        problem,
                        > > add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
                        > > your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add
                        Calgon
                        > > (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.
                        > >
                        > > There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
                        > > worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh
                        size
                        > > and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic
                        bacterial
                        > > degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)
                        > >
                        > > Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
                        > > Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it
                        to be
                        > > a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive
                        carrageen.
                        > >
                        > > I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much
                        dissolved
                        > > acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be
                        that
                        > > the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.
                        > >
                        > > Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what
                        the
                        > > temprature or humidity is.
                        > >
                        > > Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
                        > > Calgon solves this too.
                        > >
                        > > Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush.
                        Rinse
                        > > well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
                        > > think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such
                        are
                        > > used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if
                        I
                        > > want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
                        > > acrylic at all.
                        > >
                        > > Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.
                        > >
                        > > Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can
                        be
                        > > dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
                        > > evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf
                        in
                        > > the size.
                        > >
                        > > Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the
                        marbling.
                        > > Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
                        > > into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
                        > > with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
                        > > rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.
                        > >
                        > > Yours, Peggy Skycraft
                        > >
                        > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson
                        <dave1robin@y...>
                        > > wrote:
                        > >> > Dear Angela,
                        > >> > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
                        > >> > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
                        > >> > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
                        > >> > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
                        > >> > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
                        > >> > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
                        > >> > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
                        > >> > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
                        > >> > response. Good Luck.
                        > >> > Robin Olson, Chicago
                        > >> > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
                        > >>> > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
                        > >>> > > contaminated about
                        > >>> > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
                        > >>> > > blank spots in the
                        > >>> > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
                        > >>> > > carrageenan as my
                        > >>> > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
                        > >>> > > size was the
                        > >>> > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
                        > >>> > > the weather was
                        > >>> > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
                        > >>> > > just moved my work
                        > >>> > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
                        > >>> > > temperature is about
                        > >>> > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
                        > >>> > > do I clean them?
                        > >>> > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
                        > >>> > > further contaminate
                        > >>> > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
                        > >>> > > almost no humidity,
                        > >>> > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
                        > >>> > > skim using
                        > >>> > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
                        > >>> > > Any suggestions
                        > >>> > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
                        > >>> > > although I can
                        > >>> > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
                        > >>> > > flaw, I would
                        > >>> > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
                        > >>> > > make enough
                        > >>> > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
                        > >>> > > with a mind of
                        > >>> > > its own. Thanks!
                        > >>> > >
                        > >>> > > Angie
                        > >>> > >
                        > >>> > >
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> > __________________________________
                        > >> > Do you Yahoo!?
                        > >> > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
                        > >> > http://photos.yahoo.com/
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        > >
                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                        Service
                        > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Steve Bryant
                        Hello, Does anyone know of a class/workshop in the southeast region for marbling scarves or other fabrics? I ve read books, etc, but I d like the hands-on
                        Message 11 of 16 , Dec 16, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hello, Does anyone know of a class/workshop in the southeast region for marbling scarves or other fabrics? I've read books, etc, but I'd like the "hands-on" learning. thanks. Cynthia


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: peggy skycraft
                          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:43 PM
                          Subject: [Marbling] Fix your troublesome size


                          Dear Angela:

                          I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few "seconds."
                          Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.

                          Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken pattern
                          and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.) Dissolve
                          a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath (about
                          two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a problem,
                          add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
                          your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add Calgon
                          (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.

                          There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
                          worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh size
                          and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic bacterial
                          degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)

                          Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
                          Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it to be
                          a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive carrageen.

                          I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much dissolved
                          acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be that
                          the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.

                          Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what the
                          temprature or humidity is.

                          Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
                          Calgon solves this too.

                          Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush. Rinse
                          well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
                          think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such are
                          used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if I
                          want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
                          acrylic at all.

                          Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.

                          Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can be
                          dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
                          evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf in
                          the size.

                          Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the marbling.
                          Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
                          into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
                          with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
                          rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.

                          Yours, Peggy Skycraft

                          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
                          wrote:
                          > Dear Angela,
                          > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
                          > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
                          > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
                          > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
                          > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
                          > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
                          > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
                          > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
                          > response. Good Luck.
                          > Robin Olson, Chicago
                          > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
                          > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
                          > > contaminated about
                          > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
                          > > blank spots in the
                          > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
                          > > carrageenan as my
                          > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
                          > > size was the
                          > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
                          > > the weather was
                          > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
                          > > just moved my work
                          > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
                          > > temperature is about
                          > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
                          > > do I clean them?
                          > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
                          > > further contaminate
                          > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
                          > > almost no humidity,
                          > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
                          > > skim using
                          > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
                          > > Any suggestions
                          > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
                          > > although I can
                          > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
                          > > flaw, I would
                          > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
                          > > make enough
                          > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
                          > > with a mind of
                          > > its own. Thanks!
                          > >
                          > > Angie
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > __________________________________
                          > Do you Yahoo!?
                          > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
                          > http://photos.yahoo.com/


                          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • carylhanc@aol.com
                          Hi! Laura Sims is teaching a week long workshop at Arrowmont (Gatlinburg, TN) in late March. The website is www.arrowmont.org. Arrowmont was the site of the
                          Message 12 of 16 , Dec 17, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi!
                            Laura Sims is teaching a week long workshop at Arrowmont (Gatlinburg, TN) in
                            late March. The website is www.arrowmont.org. Arrowmont was the site of the
                            Marbler's Gathering a year ago - great crafts center! (and the food is good,
                            too!)
                            HTH!
                            Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis
                          • James M Mahoney
                            Hello, Cynthia - I will be teaching a one-day class of fabric marbling on February 19th in New Bern, North Carolina if you are interested in that area of the
                            Message 13 of 16 , Dec 18, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hello, Cynthia -
                              I will be teaching a one-day class of fabric marbling on February 19th in
                              New Bern, North Carolina if you are interested in that area of the
                              southeast. If this is of any interest, please e-mail me and I will give
                              you particulars.
                              Monita Mahoney
                              On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:07:08 -0800 "Steve Bryant" <jsbryant@...>
                              writes:
                              > Hello, Does anyone know of a class/workshop in the southeast
                              > region for marbling scarves or other fabrics? I've read books, etc,
                              > but I'd like the "hands-on" learning. thanks. Cynthia
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: peggy skycraft
                              > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:43 PM
                              > Subject: [Marbling] Fix your troublesome size
                              >
                              >
                              > Dear Angela:
                              >
                              > I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few
                              > "seconds."
                              > Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.
                              >
                              > Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken
                              > pattern
                              > and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.)
                              > Dissolve
                              > a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath
                              > (about
                              > two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a
                              > problem,
                              > add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I
                              > think
                              > your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add
                              > Calgon
                              > (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.
                              >
                              > There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I
                              > have
                              > worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding
                              > fresh size
                              > and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic
                              > bacterial
                              > degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors
                              > breakup.)
                              >
                              > Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
                              > Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it
                              > to be
                              > a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive
                              > carrageen.
                              >
                              > I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much
                              > dissolved
                              > acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be
                              > that
                              > the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.
                              >
                              > Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what
                              > the
                              > temprature or humidity is.
                              >
                              > Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too
                              > mineral.
                              > Calgon solves this too.
                              >
                              > Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush.
                              > Rinse
                              > well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do
                              > not
                              > think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such
                              > are
                              > used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything
                              > if I
                              > want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible
                              > with
                              > acrylic at all.
                              >
                              > Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.
                              >
                              > Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk
                              > can be
                              > dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This
                              > allows
                              > evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum
                              > dissolvingf in
                              > the size.
                              >
                              > Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the
                              > marbling.
                              > Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip
                              > back
                              > into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and
                              > rinse
                              > with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them
                              > to
                              > rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.
                              >
                              > Yours, Peggy Skycraft
                              >
                              > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson
                              > <dave1robin@y...>
                              > wrote:
                              > > Dear Angela,
                              > > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
                              > > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
                              > > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
                              > > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
                              > > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
                              > > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
                              > > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
                              > > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
                              > > response. Good Luck.
                              > > Robin Olson, Chicago
                              > > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
                              > > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
                              > > > contaminated about
                              > > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
                              > > > blank spots in the
                              > > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
                              > > > carrageenan as my
                              > > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
                              > > > size was the
                              > > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
                              > > > the weather was
                              > > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
                              > > > just moved my work
                              > > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
                              > > > temperature is about
                              > > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
                              > > > do I clean them?
                              > > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
                              > > > further contaminate
                              > > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
                              > > > almost no humidity,
                              > > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
                              > > > skim using
                              > > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
                              > > > Any suggestions
                              > > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
                              > > > although I can
                              > > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
                              > > > flaw, I would
                              > > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
                              > > > make enough
                              > > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
                              > > > with a mind of
                              > > > its own. Thanks!
                              > > >
                              > > > Angie
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > __________________________________
                              > > Do you Yahoo!?
                              > > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
                              > > http://photos.yahoo.com/
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                              > Service.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
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