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Re: contaminated size

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  • Angela Drake
    ... the size ... specifically for ... paints. Are ... many ... works for ... and ... problem. ... my ... was ... work ... them?
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 6, 2003
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      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
      > If the spots are BLANK and bumpy, are they size lumps? If so thin
      the size
      > or blend it better. What proportions do you use?
      >
      > I can't comment on Spectralite, but if they are not made
      specifically for
      > marbling or are what others have tested, I would try different
      paints. Are
      > they acrylics? There are enough people here who get good consistent
      > results, so you might use what they use. I use my own paints, but
      many
      > people use Golden acrylics successfully. Why not stick to what
      works for
      > others.
      >
      > Acrylics do dry rapidly on exposure to air, the dryer, the quicker,
      and
      > they either crackle up or make a skin. Run a humidifier if it is a
      problem.
      > I like 65-70 degrees and 50-55% humidity.
      >
      > Iris Nevins
      >
      > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      > >
      > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes contaminated about
      > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy, blank spots in the
      > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use carrageenan as
      my
      > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold size was the
      > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while the weather
      was
      > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but just moved my
      work
      > indoors and am having the same problem and the temperature is about
      > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how do I clean
      them?
      > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may further contaminate
      > the size. The air here is very dry and we have almost no humidity,
      > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I skim using
      > newspaper, but always have before with no problems. Any suggestions
      > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and although I can
      > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the flaw, I would
      > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I make enough
      > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size with a mind of
      > its own. Thanks!
      >
      > Angie
      >
      > <
    • DaveorRobin Olson
      Dear Angela, I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this problem both with paper and fabric. I
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 8, 2003
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        Dear Angela,
        I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
        problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
        problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
        contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
        better between scarves.Always use the directions on
        the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
        problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
        weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
        response. Good Luck.
        Robin Olson, Chicago
        --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@...> wrote:
        > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
        > contaminated about
        > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
        > blank spots in the
        > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
        > carrageenan as my
        > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
        > size was the
        > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
        > the weather was
        > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
        > just moved my work
        > indoors and am having the same problem and the
        > temperature is about
        > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
        > do I clean them?
        > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
        > further contaminate
        > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
        > almost no humidity,
        > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
        > skim using
        > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
        > Any suggestions
        > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
        > although I can
        > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
        > flaw, I would
        > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
        > make enough
        > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
        > with a mind of
        > its own. Thanks!
        >
        > Angie
        >
        >


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      • Angela Drake
        I m curious as to how the alum contaminates the tank. Does excess alum not soak into the fabric and then releases itself on the surface of the size? I have
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 8, 2003
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          I'm curious as to how the alum contaminates the tank. Does excess
          alum not soak into the fabric and then releases itself on the surface
          of the size? I have had the opposite response about skimming the
          tank... some think I skim to often and am diluting the size. I have
          a lot of experimenting to do this week!

          Angie

          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
          wrote:
          > Dear Angela,
          > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
          > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
          > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
          > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
          > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
          > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
          > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
          > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
          > response. Good Luck.
          > Robin Olson, Chicago
          > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
          > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
          > > contaminated about
          > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
          > > blank spots in the
          > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
          > > carrageenan as my
          > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
          > > size was the
          > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
          > > the weather was
          > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
          > > just moved my work
          > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
          > > temperature is about
          > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
          > > do I clean them?
          > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
          > > further contaminate
          > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
          > > almost no humidity,
          > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
          > > skim using
          > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
          > > Any suggestions
          > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
          > > although I can
          > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
          > > flaw, I would
          > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
          > > make enough
          > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
          > > with a mind of
          > > its own. Thanks!
          > >
          > > Angie
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
          > http://photos.yahoo.com/
        • gretchen vansant
          You do have some experimenting to do Angela,I will say this....not all paints work in carreggeenan,and not all visa versa,with methol cell. Good luck
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 8, 2003
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            You do have some experimenting to do Angela,I will say this....not all paints work in carreggeenan,and not all visa versa,with methol cell. Good luck gretchen


            Angela Drake <angiedrake@...> wrote:
            I'm curious as to how the alum contaminates the tank. Does excess
            alum not soak into the fabric and then releases itself on the surface
            of the size? I have had the opposite response about skimming the
            tank... some think I skim to often and am diluting the size. I have
            a lot of experimenting to do this week!

            Angie

            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
            wrote:
            > Dear Angela,
            > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
            > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
            > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
            > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
            > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
            > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
            > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
            > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
            > response. Good Luck.
            > Robin Olson, Chicago
            > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
            > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
            > > contaminated about
            > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
            > > blank spots in the
            > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
            > > carrageenan as my
            > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
            > > size was the
            > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
            > > the weather was
            > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
            > > just moved my work
            > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
            > > temperature is about
            > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
            > > do I clean them?
            > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
            > > further contaminate
            > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
            > > almost no humidity,
            > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
            > > skim using
            > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
            > > Any suggestions
            > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
            > > although I can
            > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
            > > flaw, I would
            > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
            > > make enough
            > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
            > > with a mind of
            > > its own. Thanks!
            > >
            > > Angie
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
            > http://photos.yahoo.com/


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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • peggy skycraft
            Dear Angela: I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few seconds. Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is. Try adding
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 10, 2003
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              Dear Angela:

              I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few "seconds."
              Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.

              Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken pattern
              and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.) Dissolve
              a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath (about
              two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a problem,
              add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
              your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add Calgon
              (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.

              There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
              worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh size
              and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic bacterial
              degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)

              Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
              Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it to be
              a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive carrageen.

              I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much dissolved
              acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be that
              the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.

              Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what the
              temprature or humidity is.

              Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
              Calgon solves this too.

              Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush. Rinse
              well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
              think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such are
              used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if I
              want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
              acrylic at all.

              Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.

              Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can be
              dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
              evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf in
              the size.

              Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the marbling.
              Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
              into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
              with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
              rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.

              Yours, Peggy Skycraft

              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
              wrote:
              > Dear Angela,
              > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
              > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
              > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
              > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
              > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
              > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
              > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
              > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
              > response. Good Luck.
              > Robin Olson, Chicago
              > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
              > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
              > > contaminated about
              > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
              > > blank spots in the
              > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
              > > carrageenan as my
              > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
              > > size was the
              > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
              > > the weather was
              > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
              > > just moved my work
              > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
              > > temperature is about
              > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
              > > do I clean them?
              > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
              > > further contaminate
              > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
              > > almost no humidity,
              > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
              > > skim using
              > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
              > > Any suggestions
              > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
              > > although I can
              > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
              > > flaw, I would
              > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
              > > make enough
              > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
              > > with a mind of
              > > its own. Thanks!
              > >
              > > Angie
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________
              > Do you Yahoo!?
              > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
              > http://photos.yahoo.com/
            • Gail MacKenzie
              ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 10, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                > Hello,
                > I¹ve been away and seem to have missed the beginning of this thread, but here
                > is my 2 cents. Alum contamination leaves jaggedly edges that resist being
                > combed and leave ragged holes in the pattern...no lumps or bumps. You can
                > sink the alum holes and spot clean the contamination with a piece of
                > newspaper. Another problem may be the PH of the size and of the pigments you
                > are using. They should be just about the same temperature and the same PH.
                > Now your size PH can be tested with some PH tape (try your local, small
                > pharmacy) as for the pigments, you¹ll need a PH meter or several pleading and
                > insisting phone calls to your supplier to tell you what is the PH of their
                > product. Here¹s where white vinegar, soda ash and ammonia come into play..to
                > adjust the PH levels of your size. If you are using distilled water it will
                > be around a 7 and this should work well with pigments that are as high as 9.
                > What is your water source? Pure sodium hexemetaphosphate will soften your
                > water but it will not change the PH. The powdered Calgon (scented somewhat)
                > that you order from Benkiser will raise your PH. I also found out that is is
                > a great for cleaning and polishing stainless ! Best wishes, Gail M.
                >
                > Dear Angela:
                >
                > I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few "seconds."
                > Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.
                >
                > Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken pattern
                > and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.) Dissolve
                > a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath (about
                > two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a problem,
                > add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
                > your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add Calgon
                > (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.
                >
                > There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
                > worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh size
                > and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic bacterial
                > degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)
                >
                > Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
                > Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it to be
                > a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive carrageen.
                >
                > I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much dissolved
                > acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be that
                > the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.
                >
                > Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what the
                > temprature or humidity is.
                >
                > Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
                > Calgon solves this too.
                >
                > Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush. Rinse
                > well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
                > think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such are
                > used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if I
                > want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
                > acrylic at all.
                >
                > Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.
                >
                > Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can be
                > dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
                > evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf in
                > the size.
                >
                > Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the marbling.
                > Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
                > into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
                > with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
                > rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.
                >
                > Yours, Peggy Skycraft
                >
                > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
                > wrote:
                >> > Dear Angela,
                >> > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
                >> > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
                >> > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
                >> > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
                >> > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
                >> > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
                >> > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
                >> > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
                >> > response. Good Luck.
                >> > Robin Olson, Chicago
                >> > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
                >>> > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
                >>> > > contaminated about
                >>> > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
                >>> > > blank spots in the
                >>> > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
                >>> > > carrageenan as my
                >>> > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
                >>> > > size was the
                >>> > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
                >>> > > the weather was
                >>> > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
                >>> > > just moved my work
                >>> > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
                >>> > > temperature is about
                >>> > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
                >>> > > do I clean them?
                >>> > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
                >>> > > further contaminate
                >>> > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
                >>> > > almost no humidity,
                >>> > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
                >>> > > skim using
                >>> > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
                >>> > > Any suggestions
                >>> > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
                >>> > > although I can
                >>> > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
                >>> > > flaw, I would
                >>> > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
                >>> > > make enough
                >>> > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
                >>> > > with a mind of
                >>> > > its own. Thanks!
                >>> > >
                >>> > > Angie
                >>> > >
                >>> > >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > __________________________________
                >> > Do you Yahoo!?
                >> > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
                >> > http://photos.yahoo.com/
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • irisnevins
                Does all this just apply to acrylics? What about Calgon with watercolors? Not that I have any complaints.....sometimes ignorance is bliss. When I was figuring
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 10, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  Does all this just apply to acrylics? What about Calgon with watercolors?
                  Not that I have any complaints.....sometimes ignorance is bliss. When I was
                  figuring out marbling on my own with no one telling me right and wrong, I
                  just merrily used my extremely hard tapwater for everything and it always
                  worked. When I tried other things that were supposed to work they didn't.
                  I'll try anything in an attempt to make things easier and better, but if
                  anyone knows of the effect of these things on watercolor prior to my
                  experimenting and wasting time and materials I'd be interested. I know
                  Borax in the size is hell on my watercolors, as is water that comes from a
                  watersoftener...things go pale and fuzzy. I have learned to make "just
                  enough" size for the day though and have no interest in preserving it.
                  After doing over 100 sheets it's shot anyway, full of filth and you can
                  barely see anyway.

                  iris nevins

                  Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Hello,
                  > I¹ve been away and seem to have missed the beginning of this thread, but
                  here
                  > is my 2 cents. Alum contamination leaves jaggedly edges that resist
                  being
                  > combed and leave ragged holes in the pattern...no lumps or bumps. You
                  can
                  > sink the alum holes and spot clean the contamination with a piece of
                  > newspaper. Another problem may be the PH of the size and of the pigments
                  you
                  > are using. They should be just about the same temperature and the same
                  PH.
                  > Now your size PH can be tested with some PH tape (try your local, small
                  > pharmacy) as for the pigments, you¹ll need a PH meter or several pleading
                  and
                  > insisting phone calls to your supplier to tell you what is the PH of
                  their
                  > product. Here¹s where white vinegar, soda ash and ammonia come into
                  play..to
                  > adjust the PH levels of your size. If you are using distilled water it
                  will
                  > be around a 7 and this should work well with pigments that are as high as
                  9.
                  > What is your water source? Pure sodium hexemetaphosphate will soften
                  your
                  > water but it will not change the PH. The powdered Calgon (scented
                  somewhat)
                  > that you order from Benkiser will raise your PH. I also found out that
                  is is
                  > a great for cleaning and polishing stainless ! Best wishes, Gail M.
                  >
                  > Dear Angela:
                  >
                  > I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few "seconds."
                  > Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.
                  >
                  > Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken pattern
                  > and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.) Dissolve
                  > a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath (about
                  > two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a problem,
                  > add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
                  > your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add Calgon
                  > (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.
                  >
                  > There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
                  > worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh size
                  > and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic bacterial
                  > degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)
                  >
                  > Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
                  > Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it to be
                  > a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive carrageen.
                  >
                  > I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much dissolved
                  > acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be that
                  > the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.
                  >
                  > Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what the
                  > temprature or humidity is.
                  >
                  > Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
                  > Calgon solves this too.
                  >
                  > Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush. Rinse
                  > well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
                  > think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such are
                  > used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if I
                  > want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
                  > acrylic at all.
                  >
                  > Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.
                  >
                  > Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can be
                  > dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
                  > evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf in
                  > the size.
                  >
                  > Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the marbling.
                  > Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
                  > into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
                  > with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
                  > rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.
                  >
                  > Yours, Peggy Skycraft
                  >
                  > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
                  > wrote:
                  >> > Dear Angela,
                  >> > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
                  >> > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
                  >> > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
                  >> > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
                  >> > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
                  >> > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
                  >> > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
                  >> > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
                  >> > response. Good Luck.
                  >> > Robin Olson, Chicago
                  >> > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
                  >>> > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
                  >>> > > contaminated about
                  >>> > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
                  >>> > > blank spots in the
                  >>> > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
                  >>> > > carrageenan as my
                  >>> > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
                  >>> > > size was the
                  >>> > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
                  >>> > > the weather was
                  >>> > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
                  >>> > > just moved my work
                  >>> > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
                  >>> > > temperature is about
                  >>> > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
                  >>> > > do I clean them?
                  >>> > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
                  >>> > > further contaminate
                  >>> > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
                  >>> > > almost no humidity,
                  >>> > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
                  >>> > > skim using
                  >>> > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
                  >>> > > Any suggestions
                  >>> > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
                  >>> > > although I can
                  >>> > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
                  >>> > > flaw, I would
                  >>> > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
                  >>> > > make enough
                  >>> > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
                  >>> > > with a mind of
                  >>> > > its own. Thanks!
                  >>> > >
                  >>> > > Angie
                  >>> > >
                  >>> > >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> > __________________________________
                  >> > Do you Yahoo!?
                  >> > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
                  >> > http://photos.yahoo.com/
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                  > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                  >



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                  Subject: Re: [Marbling] Fix your troublesome size
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                • carylhanc@aol.com
                  Hi, Peggy, Thank you for your thoughtful suggestions on working with size. Are you working with methylcel or carragheenan? I apologize if you hve mentioned
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 11, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi, Peggy,
                    Thank you for your thoughtful suggestions on working with size. Are you
                    working with methylcel or carragheenan? I apologize if you hve mentioned that in
                    your previous posts....
                    Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis
                  • Gail MacKenzie
                    ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 11, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      > I don¹t know, Iris. I¹ll try some of your paints after I finish my run today
                      > and see what happens!! Gail
                      >
                      > Does all this just apply to acrylics? What about Calgon with watercolors?
                      > Not that I have any complaints.....sometimes ignorance is bliss. When I was
                      > figuring out marbling on my own with no one telling me right and wrong, I
                      > just merrily used my extremely hard tapwater for everything and it always
                      > worked. When I tried other things that were supposed to work they didn't.
                      > I'll try anything in an attempt to make things easier and better, but if
                      > anyone knows of the effect of these things on watercolor prior to my
                      > experimenting and wasting time and materials I'd be interested. I know
                      > Borax in the size is hell on my watercolors, as is water that comes from a
                      > watersoftener...things go pale and fuzzy. I have learned to make "just
                      > enough" size for the day though and have no interest in preserving it.
                      > After doing over 100 sheets it's shot anyway, full of filth and you can
                      > barely see anyway.
                      >
                      > iris nevins
                      >
                      > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                      >> >
                      >> > Hello,
                      >> > I¹ve been away and seem to have missed the beginning of this thread, but
                      > here
                      >> > is my 2 cents. Alum contamination leaves jaggedly edges that resist
                      > being
                      >> > combed and leave ragged holes in the pattern...no lumps or bumps. You
                      > can
                      >> > sink the alum holes and spot clean the contamination with a piece of
                      >> > newspaper. Another problem may be the PH of the size and of the pigments
                      > you
                      >> > are using. They should be just about the same temperature and the same
                      > PH.
                      >> > Now your size PH can be tested with some PH tape (try your local, small
                      >> > pharmacy) as for the pigments, you¹ll need a PH meter or several pleading
                      > and
                      >> > insisting phone calls to your supplier to tell you what is the PH of
                      > their
                      >> > product. Here¹s where white vinegar, soda ash and ammonia come into
                      > play..to
                      >> > adjust the PH levels of your size. If you are using distilled water it
                      > will
                      >> > be around a 7 and this should work well with pigments that are as high as
                      > 9.
                      >> > What is your water source? Pure sodium hexemetaphosphate will soften
                      > your
                      >> > water but it will not change the PH. The powdered Calgon (scented
                      > somewhat)
                      >> > that you order from Benkiser will raise your PH. I also found out that
                      > is is
                      >> > a great for cleaning and polishing stainless ! Best wishes, Gail M.
                      >> >
                      >> > Dear Angela:
                      >> >
                      >> > I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few "seconds."
                      >> > Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.
                      >> >
                      >> > Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken pattern
                      >> > and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.) Dissolve
                      >> > a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath (about
                      >> > two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a problem,
                      >> > add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
                      >> > your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add Calgon
                      >> > (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.
                      >> >
                      >> > There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
                      >> > worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh size
                      >> > and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic bacterial
                      >> > degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)
                      >> >
                      >> > Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
                      >> > Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it to be
                      >> > a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive carrageen.
                      >> >
                      >> > I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much dissolved
                      >> > acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be that
                      >> > the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.
                      >> >
                      >> > Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what the
                      >> > temprature or humidity is.
                      >> >
                      >> > Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
                      >> > Calgon solves this too.
                      >> >
                      >> > Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush. Rinse
                      >> > well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
                      >> > think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such are
                      >> > used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if I
                      >> > want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
                      >> > acrylic at all.
                      >> >
                      >> > Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.
                      >> >
                      >> > Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can be
                      >> > dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
                      >> > evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf in
                      >> > the size.
                      >> >
                      >> > Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the marbling.
                      >> > Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
                      >> > into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
                      >> > with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
                      >> > rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.
                      >> >
                      >> > Yours, Peggy Skycraft
                      >> >
                      >> > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
                      >> > wrote:
                      >>>> >> > Dear Angela,
                      >>>> >> > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
                      >>>> >> > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
                      >>>> >> > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
                      >>>> >> > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
                      >>>> >> > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
                      >>>> >> > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
                      >>>> >> > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
                      >>>> >> > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
                      >>>> >> > response. Good Luck.
                      >>>> >> > Robin Olson, Chicago
                      >>>> >> > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
                      >>>>>> >>> > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
                      >>>>>> >>> > > contaminated about
                      >>>>>> >>> > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
                      >>>>>> >>> > > blank spots in the
                      >>>>>> >>> > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
                      >>>>>> >>> > > carrageenan as my
                      >>>>>> >>> > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
                      >>>>>> >>> > > size was the
                      >>>>>> >>> > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
                      >>>>>> >>> > > the weather was
                      >>>>>> >>> > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
                      >>>>>> >>> > > just moved my work
                      >>>>>> >>> > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
                      >>>>>> >>> > > temperature is about
                      >>>>>> >>> > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
                      >>>>>> >>> > > do I clean them?
                      >>>>>> >>> > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
                      >>>>>> >>> > > further contaminate
                      >>>>>> >>> > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
                      >>>>>> >>> > > almost no humidity,
                      >>>>>> >>> > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
                      >>>>>> >>> > > skim using
                      >>>>>> >>> > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
                      >>>>>> >>> > > Any suggestions
                      >>>>>> >>> > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
                      >>>>>> >>> > > although I can
                      >>>>>> >>> > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
                      >>>>>> >>> > > flaw, I would
                      >>>>>> >>> > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
                      >>>>>> >>> > > make enough
                      >>>>>> >>> > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
                      >>>>>> >>> > > with a mind of
                      >>>>>> >>> > > its own. Thanks!
                      >>>>>> >>> > >
                      >>>>>> >>> > > Angie
                      >>>>>> >>> > >
                      >>>>>> >>> > >
                      >>>> >> >
                      >>>> >> >
                      >>>> >> > __________________________________
                      >>>> >> > Do you Yahoo!?
                      >>>> >> > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
                      >>>> >> > http://photos.yahoo.com/
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      >> >
                      >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                      >> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                      >> >
                      >
                      >
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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Angela Drake
                      After two marbling sessions I haven t definetly solved my problem, but I am not having as much trouble either. From everyone s descriptions, I am pretty sure
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 11, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        After two marbling sessions I haven't definetly solved my problem,
                        but I am not having as much trouble either. From everyone's
                        descriptions, I am pretty sure it is alum contamination. I had
                        increased the alum in my solution a couple of weeks ago. With a
                        weaker solution, I have had less trouble. Meticulous skimming has
                        helped. And I have also applied my paints more carefully (a very
                        hard thing, as I do like to fling the paint a little). When my vat
                        gets to the point that skimming doesn't help, I will try the calgon
                        (is this the same Calgon as in the "Calgon take me away" commercials?)

                        I have happily decided it is not the spectralite paints. They
                        disperse wonderfully, comb well and take to the fabric so well that I
                        didn't want to have to get rid of them. I can also dunk the finished
                        scarf in a bucket without concern that my pattern will come off.

                        The good news is that people seem to like the scarves I've shadow
                        marbled. Of course, I don't tell them that they were marbled a
                        second time because the first time I messed up!

                        Finally, thank you so much for all the responses. At first, I was a
                        little overwhelmed and began to doubt all that I had learned how to
                        do. But it is great to have so much response in so little time.
                        Some of the responses helped me "remember" to be more careful in
                        basic techniques (do we all get a little lazy with things we think we
                        understand?) and others have introduced ideas I hadn't heard of
                        before.

                        Angie




                        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "peggy skycraft" <peggy@s...> wrote:
                        > Dear Angela:
                        >
                        > I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very
                        few "seconds."
                        > Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.
                        >
                        > Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken pattern
                        > and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.)
                        Dissolve
                        > a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath
                        (about
                        > two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a problem,
                        > add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
                        > your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add Calgon
                        > (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.
                        >
                        > There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
                        > worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh
                        size
                        > and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic bacterial
                        > degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)
                        >
                        > Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
                        > Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it to
                        be
                        > a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive
                        carrageen.
                        >
                        > I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much dissolved
                        > acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be
                        that
                        > the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.
                        >
                        > Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what
                        the
                        > temprature or humidity is.
                        >
                        > Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
                        > Calgon solves this too.
                        >
                        > Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush.
                        Rinse
                        > well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
                        > think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such are
                        > used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if I
                        > want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
                        > acrylic at all.
                        >
                        > Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.
                        >
                        > Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can be
                        > dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
                        > evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf in
                        > the size.
                        >
                        > Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the
                        marbling.
                        > Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
                        > into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
                        > with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
                        > rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.
                        >
                        > Yours, Peggy Skycraft
                        >
                        > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
                        > wrote:
                        > > Dear Angela,
                        > > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
                        > > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
                        > > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
                        > > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
                        > > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
                        > > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
                        > > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
                        > > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
                        > > response. Good Luck.
                        > > Robin Olson, Chicago
                        > > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
                        > > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
                        > > > contaminated about
                        > > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
                        > > > blank spots in the
                        > > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
                        > > > carrageenan as my
                        > > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
                        > > > size was the
                        > > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
                        > > > the weather was
                        > > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
                        > > > just moved my work
                        > > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
                        > > > temperature is about
                        > > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
                        > > > do I clean them?
                        > > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
                        > > > further contaminate
                        > > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
                        > > > almost no humidity,
                        > > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
                        > > > skim using
                        > > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
                        > > > Any suggestions
                        > > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
                        > > > although I can
                        > > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
                        > > > flaw, I would
                        > > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
                        > > > make enough
                        > > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
                        > > > with a mind of
                        > > > its own. Thanks!
                        > > >
                        > > > Angie
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > __________________________________
                        > > Do you Yahoo!?
                        > > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
                        > > http://photos.yahoo.com/
                      • Angela Drake
                        Gail, I have been using tap water with no trouble until a couple of weeks ago. I know the Ph is low because we have to adjust the water for our fish tank...
                        Message 11 of 16 , Dec 11, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Gail,

                          I have been using tap water with no trouble until a couple of weeks
                          ago. I know the Ph is low because we have to adjust the water for
                          our fish tank... hadn't considered it a problem for the marbling.
                          Looks like I'll be purchasing some calgon. Thanks!

                          Angie

                          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Gail MacKenzie <gailmackenzi@s...>
                          wrote:
                          > > Hello,
                          > > I¹ve been away and seem to have missed the beginning of this
                          thread, but here
                          > > is my 2 cents. Alum contamination leaves jaggedly edges that
                          resist being
                          > > combed and leave ragged holes in the pattern...no lumps or
                          bumps. You can
                          > > sink the alum holes and spot clean the contamination with a piece
                          of
                          > > newspaper. Another problem may be the PH of the size and of the
                          pigments you
                          > > are using. They should be just about the same temperature and
                          the same PH.
                          > > Now your size PH can be tested with some PH tape (try your local,
                          small
                          > > pharmacy) as for the pigments, you¹ll need a PH meter or several
                          pleading and
                          > > insisting phone calls to your supplier to tell you what is the PH
                          of their
                          > > product. Here¹s where white vinegar, soda ash and ammonia come
                          into play..to
                          > > adjust the PH levels of your size. If you are using distilled
                          water it will
                          > > be around a 7 and this should work well with pigments that are as
                          high as 9.
                          > > What is your water source? Pure sodium hexemetaphosphate will
                          soften your
                          > > water but it will not change the PH. The powdered Calgon
                          (scented somewhat)
                          > > that you order from Benkiser will raise your PH. I also found
                          out that is is
                          > > a great for cleaning and polishing stainless ! Best wishes,
                          Gail M.
                          > >
                          > > Dear Angela:
                          > >
                          > > I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very
                          few "seconds."
                          > > Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.
                          > >
                          > > Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken
                          pattern
                          > > and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.)
                          Dissolve
                          > > a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath
                          (about
                          > > two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a
                          problem,
                          > > add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
                          > > your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add
                          Calgon
                          > > (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.
                          > >
                          > > There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
                          > > worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh
                          size
                          > > and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic
                          bacterial
                          > > degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)
                          > >
                          > > Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
                          > > Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it
                          to be
                          > > a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive
                          carrageen.
                          > >
                          > > I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much
                          dissolved
                          > > acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be
                          that
                          > > the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.
                          > >
                          > > Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what
                          the
                          > > temprature or humidity is.
                          > >
                          > > Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
                          > > Calgon solves this too.
                          > >
                          > > Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush.
                          Rinse
                          > > well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
                          > > think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such
                          are
                          > > used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if
                          I
                          > > want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
                          > > acrylic at all.
                          > >
                          > > Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.
                          > >
                          > > Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can
                          be
                          > > dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
                          > > evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf
                          in
                          > > the size.
                          > >
                          > > Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the
                          marbling.
                          > > Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
                          > > into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
                          > > with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
                          > > rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.
                          > >
                          > > Yours, Peggy Skycraft
                          > >
                          > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson
                          <dave1robin@y...>
                          > > wrote:
                          > >> > Dear Angela,
                          > >> > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
                          > >> > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
                          > >> > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
                          > >> > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
                          > >> > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
                          > >> > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
                          > >> > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
                          > >> > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
                          > >> > response. Good Luck.
                          > >> > Robin Olson, Chicago
                          > >> > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
                          > >>> > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
                          > >>> > > contaminated about
                          > >>> > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
                          > >>> > > blank spots in the
                          > >>> > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
                          > >>> > > carrageenan as my
                          > >>> > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
                          > >>> > > size was the
                          > >>> > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
                          > >>> > > the weather was
                          > >>> > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
                          > >>> > > just moved my work
                          > >>> > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
                          > >>> > > temperature is about
                          > >>> > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
                          > >>> > > do I clean them?
                          > >>> > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
                          > >>> > > further contaminate
                          > >>> > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
                          > >>> > > almost no humidity,
                          > >>> > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
                          > >>> > > skim using
                          > >>> > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
                          > >>> > > Any suggestions
                          > >>> > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
                          > >>> > > although I can
                          > >>> > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
                          > >>> > > flaw, I would
                          > >>> > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
                          > >>> > > make enough
                          > >>> > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
                          > >>> > > with a mind of
                          > >>> > > its own. Thanks!
                          > >>> > >
                          > >>> > > Angie
                          > >>> > >
                          > >>> > >
                          > >> >
                          > >> >
                          > >> > __________________________________
                          > >> > Do you Yahoo!?
                          > >> > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
                          > >> > http://photos.yahoo.com/
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                          > >
                          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                          Service
                          > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Steve Bryant
                          Hello, Does anyone know of a class/workshop in the southeast region for marbling scarves or other fabrics? I ve read books, etc, but I d like the hands-on
                          Message 12 of 16 , Dec 16, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hello, Does anyone know of a class/workshop in the southeast region for marbling scarves or other fabrics? I've read books, etc, but I'd like the "hands-on" learning. thanks. Cynthia


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: peggy skycraft
                            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:43 PM
                            Subject: [Marbling] Fix your troublesome size


                            Dear Angela:

                            I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few "seconds."
                            Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.

                            Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken pattern
                            and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.) Dissolve
                            a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath (about
                            two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a problem,
                            add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
                            your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add Calgon
                            (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.

                            There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
                            worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh size
                            and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic bacterial
                            degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)

                            Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
                            Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it to be
                            a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive carrageen.

                            I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much dissolved
                            acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be that
                            the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.

                            Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what the
                            temprature or humidity is.

                            Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
                            Calgon solves this too.

                            Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush. Rinse
                            well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
                            think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such are
                            used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if I
                            want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
                            acrylic at all.

                            Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.

                            Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can be
                            dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
                            evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf in
                            the size.

                            Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the marbling.
                            Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
                            into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
                            with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
                            rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.

                            Yours, Peggy Skycraft

                            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
                            wrote:
                            > Dear Angela,
                            > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
                            > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
                            > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
                            > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
                            > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
                            > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
                            > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
                            > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
                            > response. Good Luck.
                            > Robin Olson, Chicago
                            > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
                            > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
                            > > contaminated about
                            > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
                            > > blank spots in the
                            > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
                            > > carrageenan as my
                            > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
                            > > size was the
                            > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
                            > > the weather was
                            > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
                            > > just moved my work
                            > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
                            > > temperature is about
                            > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
                            > > do I clean them?
                            > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
                            > > further contaminate
                            > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
                            > > almost no humidity,
                            > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
                            > > skim using
                            > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
                            > > Any suggestions
                            > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
                            > > although I can
                            > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
                            > > flaw, I would
                            > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
                            > > make enough
                            > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
                            > > with a mind of
                            > > its own. Thanks!
                            > >
                            > > Angie
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            > __________________________________
                            > Do you Yahoo!?
                            > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
                            > http://photos.yahoo.com/


                            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • carylhanc@aol.com
                            Hi! Laura Sims is teaching a week long workshop at Arrowmont (Gatlinburg, TN) in late March. The website is www.arrowmont.org. Arrowmont was the site of the
                            Message 13 of 16 , Dec 17, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi!
                              Laura Sims is teaching a week long workshop at Arrowmont (Gatlinburg, TN) in
                              late March. The website is www.arrowmont.org. Arrowmont was the site of the
                              Marbler's Gathering a year ago - great crafts center! (and the food is good,
                              too!)
                              HTH!
                              Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis
                            • James M Mahoney
                              Hello, Cynthia - I will be teaching a one-day class of fabric marbling on February 19th in New Bern, North Carolina if you are interested in that area of the
                              Message 14 of 16 , Dec 18, 2003
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hello, Cynthia -
                                I will be teaching a one-day class of fabric marbling on February 19th in
                                New Bern, North Carolina if you are interested in that area of the
                                southeast. If this is of any interest, please e-mail me and I will give
                                you particulars.
                                Monita Mahoney
                                On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:07:08 -0800 "Steve Bryant" <jsbryant@...>
                                writes:
                                > Hello, Does anyone know of a class/workshop in the southeast
                                > region for marbling scarves or other fabrics? I've read books, etc,
                                > but I'd like the "hands-on" learning. thanks. Cynthia
                                >
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: peggy skycraft
                                > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:43 PM
                                > Subject: [Marbling] Fix your troublesome size
                                >
                                >
                                > Dear Angela:
                                >
                                > I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few
                                > "seconds."
                                > Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.
                                >
                                > Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken
                                > pattern
                                > and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.)
                                > Dissolve
                                > a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath
                                > (about
                                > two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a
                                > problem,
                                > add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I
                                > think
                                > your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add
                                > Calgon
                                > (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.
                                >
                                > There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I
                                > have
                                > worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding
                                > fresh size
                                > and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic
                                > bacterial
                                > degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors
                                > breakup.)
                                >
                                > Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
                                > Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it
                                > to be
                                > a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive
                                > carrageen.
                                >
                                > I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much
                                > dissolved
                                > acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be
                                > that
                                > the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.
                                >
                                > Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what
                                > the
                                > temprature or humidity is.
                                >
                                > Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too
                                > mineral.
                                > Calgon solves this too.
                                >
                                > Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush.
                                > Rinse
                                > well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do
                                > not
                                > think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such
                                > are
                                > used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything
                                > if I
                                > want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible
                                > with
                                > acrylic at all.
                                >
                                > Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.
                                >
                                > Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk
                                > can be
                                > dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This
                                > allows
                                > evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum
                                > dissolvingf in
                                > the size.
                                >
                                > Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the
                                > marbling.
                                > Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip
                                > back
                                > into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and
                                > rinse
                                > with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them
                                > to
                                > rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.
                                >
                                > Yours, Peggy Skycraft
                                >
                                > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson
                                > <dave1robin@y...>
                                > wrote:
                                > > Dear Angela,
                                > > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
                                > > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
                                > > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
                                > > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
                                > > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
                                > > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
                                > > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
                                > > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
                                > > response. Good Luck.
                                > > Robin Olson, Chicago
                                > > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
                                > > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
                                > > > contaminated about
                                > > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
                                > > > blank spots in the
                                > > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
                                > > > carrageenan as my
                                > > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
                                > > > size was the
                                > > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
                                > > > the weather was
                                > > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
                                > > > just moved my work
                                > > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
                                > > > temperature is about
                                > > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
                                > > > do I clean them?
                                > > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
                                > > > further contaminate
                                > > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
                                > > > almost no humidity,
                                > > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
                                > > > skim using
                                > > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
                                > > > Any suggestions
                                > > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
                                > > > although I can
                                > > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
                                > > > flaw, I would
                                > > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
                                > > > make enough
                                > > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
                                > > > with a mind of
                                > > > its own. Thanks!
                                > > >
                                > > > Angie
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > __________________________________
                                > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                > > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
                                > > http://photos.yahoo.com/
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                > Service.
                                >
                                >
                                >
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