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[Marbling] contaminated size

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  • irisnevins
    If the spots are BLANK and bumpy, are they size lumps? If so thin the size or blend it better. What proportions do you use? I can t comment on Spectralite, but
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 6, 2003
      If the spots are BLANK and bumpy, are they size lumps? If so thin the size
      or blend it better. What proportions do you use?

      I can't comment on Spectralite, but if they are not made specifically for
      marbling or are what others have tested, I would try different paints. Are
      they acrylics? There are enough people here who get good consistent
      results, so you might use what they use. I use my own paints, but many
      people use Golden acrylics successfully. Why not stick to what works for
      others.

      Acrylics do dry rapidly on exposure to air, the dryer, the quicker, and
      they either crackle up or make a skin. Run a humidifier if it is a problem.
      I like 65-70 degrees and 50-55% humidity.

      Iris Nevins

      Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      >
      The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes contaminated about
      my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy, blank spots in the
      pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use carrageenan as my
      size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold size was the
      problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while the weather was
      good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but just moved my work
      indoors and am having the same problem and the temperature is about
      70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how do I clean them?
      I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may further contaminate
      the size. The air here is very dry and we have almost no humidity,
      even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I skim using
      newspaper, but always have before with no problems. Any suggestions
      would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and although I can
      marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the flaw, I would
      prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I make enough
      mistakes of my own without having to deal with size with a mind of
      its own. Thanks!

      Angie

      <
    • Angela Drake
      ... the size ... specifically for ... paints. Are ... many ... works for ... and ... problem. ... my ... was ... work ... them?
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 6, 2003
        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
        > If the spots are BLANK and bumpy, are they size lumps? If so thin
        the size
        > or blend it better. What proportions do you use?
        >
        > I can't comment on Spectralite, but if they are not made
        specifically for
        > marbling or are what others have tested, I would try different
        paints. Are
        > they acrylics? There are enough people here who get good consistent
        > results, so you might use what they use. I use my own paints, but
        many
        > people use Golden acrylics successfully. Why not stick to what
        works for
        > others.
        >
        > Acrylics do dry rapidly on exposure to air, the dryer, the quicker,
        and
        > they either crackle up or make a skin. Run a humidifier if it is a
        problem.
        > I like 65-70 degrees and 50-55% humidity.
        >
        > Iris Nevins
        >
        > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes contaminated about
        > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy, blank spots in the
        > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use carrageenan as
        my
        > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold size was the
        > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while the weather
        was
        > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but just moved my
        work
        > indoors and am having the same problem and the temperature is about
        > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how do I clean
        them?
        > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may further contaminate
        > the size. The air here is very dry and we have almost no humidity,
        > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I skim using
        > newspaper, but always have before with no problems. Any suggestions
        > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and although I can
        > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the flaw, I would
        > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I make enough
        > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size with a mind of
        > its own. Thanks!
        >
        > Angie
        >
        > <
      • DaveorRobin Olson
        Dear Angela, I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this problem both with paper and fabric. I
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 8, 2003
          Dear Angela,
          I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
          problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
          problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
          contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
          better between scarves.Always use the directions on
          the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
          problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
          weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
          response. Good Luck.
          Robin Olson, Chicago
          --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@...> wrote:
          > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
          > contaminated about
          > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
          > blank spots in the
          > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
          > carrageenan as my
          > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
          > size was the
          > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
          > the weather was
          > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
          > just moved my work
          > indoors and am having the same problem and the
          > temperature is about
          > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
          > do I clean them?
          > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
          > further contaminate
          > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
          > almost no humidity,
          > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
          > skim using
          > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
          > Any suggestions
          > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
          > although I can
          > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
          > flaw, I would
          > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
          > make enough
          > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
          > with a mind of
          > its own. Thanks!
          >
          > Angie
          >
          >


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        • Angela Drake
          I m curious as to how the alum contaminates the tank. Does excess alum not soak into the fabric and then releases itself on the surface of the size? I have
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 8, 2003
            I'm curious as to how the alum contaminates the tank. Does excess
            alum not soak into the fabric and then releases itself on the surface
            of the size? I have had the opposite response about skimming the
            tank... some think I skim to often and am diluting the size. I have
            a lot of experimenting to do this week!

            Angie

            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
            wrote:
            > Dear Angela,
            > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
            > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
            > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
            > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
            > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
            > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
            > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
            > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
            > response. Good Luck.
            > Robin Olson, Chicago
            > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
            > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
            > > contaminated about
            > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
            > > blank spots in the
            > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
            > > carrageenan as my
            > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
            > > size was the
            > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
            > > the weather was
            > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
            > > just moved my work
            > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
            > > temperature is about
            > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
            > > do I clean them?
            > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
            > > further contaminate
            > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
            > > almost no humidity,
            > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
            > > skim using
            > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
            > > Any suggestions
            > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
            > > although I can
            > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
            > > flaw, I would
            > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
            > > make enough
            > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
            > > with a mind of
            > > its own. Thanks!
            > >
            > > Angie
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
            > http://photos.yahoo.com/
          • gretchen vansant
            You do have some experimenting to do Angela,I will say this....not all paints work in carreggeenan,and not all visa versa,with methol cell. Good luck
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 8, 2003
              You do have some experimenting to do Angela,I will say this....not all paints work in carreggeenan,and not all visa versa,with methol cell. Good luck gretchen


              Angela Drake <angiedrake@...> wrote:
              I'm curious as to how the alum contaminates the tank. Does excess
              alum not soak into the fabric and then releases itself on the surface
              of the size? I have had the opposite response about skimming the
              tank... some think I skim to often and am diluting the size. I have
              a lot of experimenting to do this week!

              Angie

              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
              wrote:
              > Dear Angela,
              > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
              > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
              > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
              > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
              > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
              > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
              > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
              > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
              > response. Good Luck.
              > Robin Olson, Chicago
              > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
              > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
              > > contaminated about
              > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
              > > blank spots in the
              > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
              > > carrageenan as my
              > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
              > > size was the
              > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
              > > the weather was
              > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
              > > just moved my work
              > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
              > > temperature is about
              > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
              > > do I clean them?
              > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
              > > further contaminate
              > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
              > > almost no humidity,
              > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
              > > skim using
              > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
              > > Any suggestions
              > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
              > > although I can
              > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
              > > flaw, I would
              > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
              > > make enough
              > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
              > > with a mind of
              > > its own. Thanks!
              > >
              > > Angie
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________
              > Do you Yahoo!?
              > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
              > http://photos.yahoo.com/


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • peggy skycraft
              Dear Angela: I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few seconds. Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is. Try adding
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 10, 2003
                Dear Angela:

                I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few "seconds."
                Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.

                Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken pattern
                and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.) Dissolve
                a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath (about
                two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a problem,
                add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
                your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add Calgon
                (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.

                There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
                worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh size
                and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic bacterial
                degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)

                Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
                Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it to be
                a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive carrageen.

                I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much dissolved
                acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be that
                the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.

                Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what the
                temprature or humidity is.

                Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
                Calgon solves this too.

                Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush. Rinse
                well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
                think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such are
                used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if I
                want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
                acrylic at all.

                Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.

                Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can be
                dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
                evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf in
                the size.

                Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the marbling.
                Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
                into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
                with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
                rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.

                Yours, Peggy Skycraft

                --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
                wrote:
                > Dear Angela,
                > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
                > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
                > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
                > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
                > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
                > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
                > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
                > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
                > response. Good Luck.
                > Robin Olson, Chicago
                > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
                > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
                > > contaminated about
                > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
                > > blank spots in the
                > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
                > > carrageenan as my
                > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
                > > size was the
                > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
                > > the weather was
                > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
                > > just moved my work
                > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
                > > temperature is about
                > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
                > > do I clean them?
                > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
                > > further contaminate
                > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
                > > almost no humidity,
                > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
                > > skim using
                > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
                > > Any suggestions
                > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
                > > although I can
                > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
                > > flaw, I would
                > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
                > > make enough
                > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
                > > with a mind of
                > > its own. Thanks!
                > >
                > > Angie
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > __________________________________
                > Do you Yahoo!?
                > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
                > http://photos.yahoo.com/
              • Gail MacKenzie
                ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 10, 2003
                  > Hello,
                  > I¹ve been away and seem to have missed the beginning of this thread, but here
                  > is my 2 cents. Alum contamination leaves jaggedly edges that resist being
                  > combed and leave ragged holes in the pattern...no lumps or bumps. You can
                  > sink the alum holes and spot clean the contamination with a piece of
                  > newspaper. Another problem may be the PH of the size and of the pigments you
                  > are using. They should be just about the same temperature and the same PH.
                  > Now your size PH can be tested with some PH tape (try your local, small
                  > pharmacy) as for the pigments, you¹ll need a PH meter or several pleading and
                  > insisting phone calls to your supplier to tell you what is the PH of their
                  > product. Here¹s where white vinegar, soda ash and ammonia come into play..to
                  > adjust the PH levels of your size. If you are using distilled water it will
                  > be around a 7 and this should work well with pigments that are as high as 9.
                  > What is your water source? Pure sodium hexemetaphosphate will soften your
                  > water but it will not change the PH. The powdered Calgon (scented somewhat)
                  > that you order from Benkiser will raise your PH. I also found out that is is
                  > a great for cleaning and polishing stainless ! Best wishes, Gail M.
                  >
                  > Dear Angela:
                  >
                  > I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few "seconds."
                  > Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.
                  >
                  > Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken pattern
                  > and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.) Dissolve
                  > a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath (about
                  > two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a problem,
                  > add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
                  > your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add Calgon
                  > (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.
                  >
                  > There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
                  > worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh size
                  > and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic bacterial
                  > degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)
                  >
                  > Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
                  > Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it to be
                  > a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive carrageen.
                  >
                  > I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much dissolved
                  > acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be that
                  > the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.
                  >
                  > Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what the
                  > temprature or humidity is.
                  >
                  > Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
                  > Calgon solves this too.
                  >
                  > Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush. Rinse
                  > well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
                  > think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such are
                  > used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if I
                  > want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
                  > acrylic at all.
                  >
                  > Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.
                  >
                  > Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can be
                  > dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
                  > evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf in
                  > the size.
                  >
                  > Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the marbling.
                  > Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
                  > into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
                  > with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
                  > rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.
                  >
                  > Yours, Peggy Skycraft
                  >
                  > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
                  > wrote:
                  >> > Dear Angela,
                  >> > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
                  >> > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
                  >> > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
                  >> > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
                  >> > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
                  >> > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
                  >> > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
                  >> > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
                  >> > response. Good Luck.
                  >> > Robin Olson, Chicago
                  >> > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
                  >>> > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
                  >>> > > contaminated about
                  >>> > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
                  >>> > > blank spots in the
                  >>> > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
                  >>> > > carrageenan as my
                  >>> > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
                  >>> > > size was the
                  >>> > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
                  >>> > > the weather was
                  >>> > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
                  >>> > > just moved my work
                  >>> > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
                  >>> > > temperature is about
                  >>> > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
                  >>> > > do I clean them?
                  >>> > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
                  >>> > > further contaminate
                  >>> > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
                  >>> > > almost no humidity,
                  >>> > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
                  >>> > > skim using
                  >>> > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
                  >>> > > Any suggestions
                  >>> > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
                  >>> > > although I can
                  >>> > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
                  >>> > > flaw, I would
                  >>> > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
                  >>> > > make enough
                  >>> > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
                  >>> > > with a mind of
                  >>> > > its own. Thanks!
                  >>> > >
                  >>> > > Angie
                  >>> > >
                  >>> > >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> > __________________________________
                  >> > Do you Yahoo!?
                  >> > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
                  >> > http://photos.yahoo.com/
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                  > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • irisnevins
                  Does all this just apply to acrylics? What about Calgon with watercolors? Not that I have any complaints.....sometimes ignorance is bliss. When I was figuring
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 10, 2003
                    Does all this just apply to acrylics? What about Calgon with watercolors?
                    Not that I have any complaints.....sometimes ignorance is bliss. When I was
                    figuring out marbling on my own with no one telling me right and wrong, I
                    just merrily used my extremely hard tapwater for everything and it always
                    worked. When I tried other things that were supposed to work they didn't.
                    I'll try anything in an attempt to make things easier and better, but if
                    anyone knows of the effect of these things on watercolor prior to my
                    experimenting and wasting time and materials I'd be interested. I know
                    Borax in the size is hell on my watercolors, as is water that comes from a
                    watersoftener...things go pale and fuzzy. I have learned to make "just
                    enough" size for the day though and have no interest in preserving it.
                    After doing over 100 sheets it's shot anyway, full of filth and you can
                    barely see anyway.

                    iris nevins

                    Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Hello,
                    > I¹ve been away and seem to have missed the beginning of this thread, but
                    here
                    > is my 2 cents. Alum contamination leaves jaggedly edges that resist
                    being
                    > combed and leave ragged holes in the pattern...no lumps or bumps. You
                    can
                    > sink the alum holes and spot clean the contamination with a piece of
                    > newspaper. Another problem may be the PH of the size and of the pigments
                    you
                    > are using. They should be just about the same temperature and the same
                    PH.
                    > Now your size PH can be tested with some PH tape (try your local, small
                    > pharmacy) as for the pigments, you¹ll need a PH meter or several pleading
                    and
                    > insisting phone calls to your supplier to tell you what is the PH of
                    their
                    > product. Here¹s where white vinegar, soda ash and ammonia come into
                    play..to
                    > adjust the PH levels of your size. If you are using distilled water it
                    will
                    > be around a 7 and this should work well with pigments that are as high as
                    9.
                    > What is your water source? Pure sodium hexemetaphosphate will soften
                    your
                    > water but it will not change the PH. The powdered Calgon (scented
                    somewhat)
                    > that you order from Benkiser will raise your PH. I also found out that
                    is is
                    > a great for cleaning and polishing stainless ! Best wishes, Gail M.
                    >
                    > Dear Angela:
                    >
                    > I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few "seconds."
                    > Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.
                    >
                    > Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken pattern
                    > and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.) Dissolve
                    > a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath (about
                    > two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a problem,
                    > add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
                    > your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add Calgon
                    > (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.
                    >
                    > There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
                    > worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh size
                    > and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic bacterial
                    > degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)
                    >
                    > Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
                    > Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it to be
                    > a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive carrageen.
                    >
                    > I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much dissolved
                    > acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be that
                    > the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.
                    >
                    > Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what the
                    > temprature or humidity is.
                    >
                    > Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
                    > Calgon solves this too.
                    >
                    > Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush. Rinse
                    > well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
                    > think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such are
                    > used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if I
                    > want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
                    > acrylic at all.
                    >
                    > Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.
                    >
                    > Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can be
                    > dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
                    > evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf in
                    > the size.
                    >
                    > Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the marbling.
                    > Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
                    > into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
                    > with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
                    > rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.
                    >
                    > Yours, Peggy Skycraft
                    >
                    > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
                    > wrote:
                    >> > Dear Angela,
                    >> > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
                    >> > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
                    >> > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
                    >> > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
                    >> > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
                    >> > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
                    >> > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
                    >> > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
                    >> > response. Good Luck.
                    >> > Robin Olson, Chicago
                    >> > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
                    >>> > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
                    >>> > > contaminated about
                    >>> > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
                    >>> > > blank spots in the
                    >>> > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
                    >>> > > carrageenan as my
                    >>> > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
                    >>> > > size was the
                    >>> > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
                    >>> > > the weather was
                    >>> > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
                    >>> > > just moved my work
                    >>> > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
                    >>> > > temperature is about
                    >>> > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
                    >>> > > do I clean them?
                    >>> > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
                    >>> > > further contaminate
                    >>> > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
                    >>> > > almost no humidity,
                    >>> > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
                    >>> > > skim using
                    >>> > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
                    >>> > > Any suggestions
                    >>> > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
                    >>> > > although I can
                    >>> > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
                    >>> > > flaw, I would
                    >>> > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
                    >>> > > make enough
                    >>> > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
                    >>> > > with a mind of
                    >>> > > its own. Thanks!
                    >>> > >
                    >>> > > Angie
                    >>> > >
                    >>> > >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > __________________________________
                    >> > Do you Yahoo!?
                    >> > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
                    >> > http://photos.yahoo.com/
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                    > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                    >



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                    Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:25:43 -0800
                    Subject: Re: [Marbling] Fix your troublesome size
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                  • carylhanc@aol.com
                    Hi, Peggy, Thank you for your thoughtful suggestions on working with size. Are you working with methylcel or carragheenan? I apologize if you hve mentioned
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 11, 2003
                      Hi, Peggy,
                      Thank you for your thoughtful suggestions on working with size. Are you
                      working with methylcel or carragheenan? I apologize if you hve mentioned that in
                      your previous posts....
                      Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis
                    • Gail MacKenzie
                      ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 11, 2003
                        > I don¹t know, Iris. I¹ll try some of your paints after I finish my run today
                        > and see what happens!! Gail
                        >
                        > Does all this just apply to acrylics? What about Calgon with watercolors?
                        > Not that I have any complaints.....sometimes ignorance is bliss. When I was
                        > figuring out marbling on my own with no one telling me right and wrong, I
                        > just merrily used my extremely hard tapwater for everything and it always
                        > worked. When I tried other things that were supposed to work they didn't.
                        > I'll try anything in an attempt to make things easier and better, but if
                        > anyone knows of the effect of these things on watercolor prior to my
                        > experimenting and wasting time and materials I'd be interested. I know
                        > Borax in the size is hell on my watercolors, as is water that comes from a
                        > watersoftener...things go pale and fuzzy. I have learned to make "just
                        > enough" size for the day though and have no interest in preserving it.
                        > After doing over 100 sheets it's shot anyway, full of filth and you can
                        > barely see anyway.
                        >
                        > iris nevins
                        >
                        > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                        >> >
                        >> > Hello,
                        >> > I¹ve been away and seem to have missed the beginning of this thread, but
                        > here
                        >> > is my 2 cents. Alum contamination leaves jaggedly edges that resist
                        > being
                        >> > combed and leave ragged holes in the pattern...no lumps or bumps. You
                        > can
                        >> > sink the alum holes and spot clean the contamination with a piece of
                        >> > newspaper. Another problem may be the PH of the size and of the pigments
                        > you
                        >> > are using. They should be just about the same temperature and the same
                        > PH.
                        >> > Now your size PH can be tested with some PH tape (try your local, small
                        >> > pharmacy) as for the pigments, you¹ll need a PH meter or several pleading
                        > and
                        >> > insisting phone calls to your supplier to tell you what is the PH of
                        > their
                        >> > product. Here¹s where white vinegar, soda ash and ammonia come into
                        > play..to
                        >> > adjust the PH levels of your size. If you are using distilled water it
                        > will
                        >> > be around a 7 and this should work well with pigments that are as high as
                        > 9.
                        >> > What is your water source? Pure sodium hexemetaphosphate will soften
                        > your
                        >> > water but it will not change the PH. The powdered Calgon (scented
                        > somewhat)
                        >> > that you order from Benkiser will raise your PH. I also found out that
                        > is is
                        >> > a great for cleaning and polishing stainless ! Best wishes, Gail M.
                        >> >
                        >> > Dear Angela:
                        >> >
                        >> > I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few "seconds."
                        >> > Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.
                        >> >
                        >> > Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken pattern
                        >> > and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.) Dissolve
                        >> > a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath (about
                        >> > two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a problem,
                        >> > add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
                        >> > your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add Calgon
                        >> > (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.
                        >> >
                        >> > There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
                        >> > worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh size
                        >> > and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic bacterial
                        >> > degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)
                        >> >
                        >> > Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
                        >> > Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it to be
                        >> > a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive carrageen.
                        >> >
                        >> > I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much dissolved
                        >> > acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be that
                        >> > the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.
                        >> >
                        >> > Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what the
                        >> > temprature or humidity is.
                        >> >
                        >> > Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
                        >> > Calgon solves this too.
                        >> >
                        >> > Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush. Rinse
                        >> > well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
                        >> > think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such are
                        >> > used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if I
                        >> > want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
                        >> > acrylic at all.
                        >> >
                        >> > Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.
                        >> >
                        >> > Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can be
                        >> > dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
                        >> > evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf in
                        >> > the size.
                        >> >
                        >> > Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the marbling.
                        >> > Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
                        >> > into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
                        >> > with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
                        >> > rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.
                        >> >
                        >> > Yours, Peggy Skycraft
                        >> >
                        >> > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
                        >> > wrote:
                        >>>> >> > Dear Angela,
                        >>>> >> > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
                        >>>> >> > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
                        >>>> >> > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
                        >>>> >> > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
                        >>>> >> > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
                        >>>> >> > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
                        >>>> >> > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
                        >>>> >> > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
                        >>>> >> > response. Good Luck.
                        >>>> >> > Robin Olson, Chicago
                        >>>> >> > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
                        >>>>>> >>> > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
                        >>>>>> >>> > > contaminated about
                        >>>>>> >>> > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
                        >>>>>> >>> > > blank spots in the
                        >>>>>> >>> > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
                        >>>>>> >>> > > carrageenan as my
                        >>>>>> >>> > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
                        >>>>>> >>> > > size was the
                        >>>>>> >>> > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
                        >>>>>> >>> > > the weather was
                        >>>>>> >>> > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
                        >>>>>> >>> > > just moved my work
                        >>>>>> >>> > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
                        >>>>>> >>> > > temperature is about
                        >>>>>> >>> > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
                        >>>>>> >>> > > do I clean them?
                        >>>>>> >>> > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
                        >>>>>> >>> > > further contaminate
                        >>>>>> >>> > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
                        >>>>>> >>> > > almost no humidity,
                        >>>>>> >>> > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
                        >>>>>> >>> > > skim using
                        >>>>>> >>> > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
                        >>>>>> >>> > > Any suggestions
                        >>>>>> >>> > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
                        >>>>>> >>> > > although I can
                        >>>>>> >>> > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
                        >>>>>> >>> > > flaw, I would
                        >>>>>> >>> > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
                        >>>>>> >>> > > make enough
                        >>>>>> >>> > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
                        >>>>>> >>> > > with a mind of
                        >>>>>> >>> > > its own. Thanks!
                        >>>>>> >>> > >
                        >>>>>> >>> > > Angie
                        >>>>>> >>> > >
                        >>>>>> >>> > >
                        >>>> >> >
                        >>>> >> >
                        >>>> >> > __________________________________
                        >>>> >> > Do you Yahoo!?
                        >>>> >> > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
                        >>>> >> > http://photos.yahoo.com/
                        >> >
                        >> >
                        >> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        >> >
                        >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                        >> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                        >> >
                        >
                        >
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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Angela Drake
                        After two marbling sessions I haven t definetly solved my problem, but I am not having as much trouble either. From everyone s descriptions, I am pretty sure
                        Message 11 of 16 , Dec 11, 2003
                          After two marbling sessions I haven't definetly solved my problem,
                          but I am not having as much trouble either. From everyone's
                          descriptions, I am pretty sure it is alum contamination. I had
                          increased the alum in my solution a couple of weeks ago. With a
                          weaker solution, I have had less trouble. Meticulous skimming has
                          helped. And I have also applied my paints more carefully (a very
                          hard thing, as I do like to fling the paint a little). When my vat
                          gets to the point that skimming doesn't help, I will try the calgon
                          (is this the same Calgon as in the "Calgon take me away" commercials?)

                          I have happily decided it is not the spectralite paints. They
                          disperse wonderfully, comb well and take to the fabric so well that I
                          didn't want to have to get rid of them. I can also dunk the finished
                          scarf in a bucket without concern that my pattern will come off.

                          The good news is that people seem to like the scarves I've shadow
                          marbled. Of course, I don't tell them that they were marbled a
                          second time because the first time I messed up!

                          Finally, thank you so much for all the responses. At first, I was a
                          little overwhelmed and began to doubt all that I had learned how to
                          do. But it is great to have so much response in so little time.
                          Some of the responses helped me "remember" to be more careful in
                          basic techniques (do we all get a little lazy with things we think we
                          understand?) and others have introduced ideas I hadn't heard of
                          before.

                          Angie




                          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "peggy skycraft" <peggy@s...> wrote:
                          > Dear Angela:
                          >
                          > I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very
                          few "seconds."
                          > Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.
                          >
                          > Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken pattern
                          > and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.)
                          Dissolve
                          > a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath
                          (about
                          > two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a problem,
                          > add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
                          > your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add Calgon
                          > (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.
                          >
                          > There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
                          > worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh
                          size
                          > and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic bacterial
                          > degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)
                          >
                          > Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
                          > Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it to
                          be
                          > a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive
                          carrageen.
                          >
                          > I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much dissolved
                          > acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be
                          that
                          > the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.
                          >
                          > Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what
                          the
                          > temprature or humidity is.
                          >
                          > Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
                          > Calgon solves this too.
                          >
                          > Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush.
                          Rinse
                          > well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
                          > think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such are
                          > used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if I
                          > want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
                          > acrylic at all.
                          >
                          > Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.
                          >
                          > Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can be
                          > dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
                          > evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf in
                          > the size.
                          >
                          > Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the
                          marbling.
                          > Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
                          > into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
                          > with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
                          > rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.
                          >
                          > Yours, Peggy Skycraft
                          >
                          > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
                          > wrote:
                          > > Dear Angela,
                          > > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
                          > > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
                          > > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
                          > > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
                          > > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
                          > > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
                          > > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
                          > > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
                          > > response. Good Luck.
                          > > Robin Olson, Chicago
                          > > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
                          > > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
                          > > > contaminated about
                          > > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
                          > > > blank spots in the
                          > > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
                          > > > carrageenan as my
                          > > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
                          > > > size was the
                          > > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
                          > > > the weather was
                          > > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
                          > > > just moved my work
                          > > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
                          > > > temperature is about
                          > > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
                          > > > do I clean them?
                          > > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
                          > > > further contaminate
                          > > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
                          > > > almost no humidity,
                          > > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
                          > > > skim using
                          > > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
                          > > > Any suggestions
                          > > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
                          > > > although I can
                          > > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
                          > > > flaw, I would
                          > > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
                          > > > make enough
                          > > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
                          > > > with a mind of
                          > > > its own. Thanks!
                          > > >
                          > > > Angie
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > __________________________________
                          > > Do you Yahoo!?
                          > > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
                          > > http://photos.yahoo.com/
                        • Angela Drake
                          Gail, I have been using tap water with no trouble until a couple of weeks ago. I know the Ph is low because we have to adjust the water for our fish tank...
                          Message 12 of 16 , Dec 11, 2003
                            Gail,

                            I have been using tap water with no trouble until a couple of weeks
                            ago. I know the Ph is low because we have to adjust the water for
                            our fish tank... hadn't considered it a problem for the marbling.
                            Looks like I'll be purchasing some calgon. Thanks!

                            Angie

                            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Gail MacKenzie <gailmackenzi@s...>
                            wrote:
                            > > Hello,
                            > > I¹ve been away and seem to have missed the beginning of this
                            thread, but here
                            > > is my 2 cents. Alum contamination leaves jaggedly edges that
                            resist being
                            > > combed and leave ragged holes in the pattern...no lumps or
                            bumps. You can
                            > > sink the alum holes and spot clean the contamination with a piece
                            of
                            > > newspaper. Another problem may be the PH of the size and of the
                            pigments you
                            > > are using. They should be just about the same temperature and
                            the same PH.
                            > > Now your size PH can be tested with some PH tape (try your local,
                            small
                            > > pharmacy) as for the pigments, you¹ll need a PH meter or several
                            pleading and
                            > > insisting phone calls to your supplier to tell you what is the PH
                            of their
                            > > product. Here¹s where white vinegar, soda ash and ammonia come
                            into play..to
                            > > adjust the PH levels of your size. If you are using distilled
                            water it will
                            > > be around a 7 and this should work well with pigments that are as
                            high as 9.
                            > > What is your water source? Pure sodium hexemetaphosphate will
                            soften your
                            > > water but it will not change the PH. The powdered Calgon
                            (scented somewhat)
                            > > that you order from Benkiser will raise your PH. I also found
                            out that is is
                            > > a great for cleaning and polishing stainless ! Best wishes,
                            Gail M.
                            > >
                            > > Dear Angela:
                            > >
                            > > I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very
                            few "seconds."
                            > > Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.
                            > >
                            > > Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken
                            pattern
                            > > and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.)
                            Dissolve
                            > > a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath
                            (about
                            > > two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a
                            problem,
                            > > add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
                            > > your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add
                            Calgon
                            > > (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.
                            > >
                            > > There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
                            > > worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh
                            size
                            > > and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic
                            bacterial
                            > > degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)
                            > >
                            > > Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
                            > > Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it
                            to be
                            > > a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive
                            carrageen.
                            > >
                            > > I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much
                            dissolved
                            > > acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be
                            that
                            > > the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.
                            > >
                            > > Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what
                            the
                            > > temprature or humidity is.
                            > >
                            > > Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
                            > > Calgon solves this too.
                            > >
                            > > Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush.
                            Rinse
                            > > well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
                            > > think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such
                            are
                            > > used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if
                            I
                            > > want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
                            > > acrylic at all.
                            > >
                            > > Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.
                            > >
                            > > Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can
                            be
                            > > dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
                            > > evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf
                            in
                            > > the size.
                            > >
                            > > Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the
                            marbling.
                            > > Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
                            > > into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
                            > > with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
                            > > rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.
                            > >
                            > > Yours, Peggy Skycraft
                            > >
                            > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson
                            <dave1robin@y...>
                            > > wrote:
                            > >> > Dear Angela,
                            > >> > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
                            > >> > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
                            > >> > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
                            > >> > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
                            > >> > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
                            > >> > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
                            > >> > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
                            > >> > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
                            > >> > response. Good Luck.
                            > >> > Robin Olson, Chicago
                            > >> > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
                            > >>> > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
                            > >>> > > contaminated about
                            > >>> > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
                            > >>> > > blank spots in the
                            > >>> > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
                            > >>> > > carrageenan as my
                            > >>> > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
                            > >>> > > size was the
                            > >>> > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
                            > >>> > > the weather was
                            > >>> > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
                            > >>> > > just moved my work
                            > >>> > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
                            > >>> > > temperature is about
                            > >>> > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
                            > >>> > > do I clean them?
                            > >>> > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
                            > >>> > > further contaminate
                            > >>> > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
                            > >>> > > almost no humidity,
                            > >>> > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
                            > >>> > > skim using
                            > >>> > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
                            > >>> > > Any suggestions
                            > >>> > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
                            > >>> > > although I can
                            > >>> > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
                            > >>> > > flaw, I would
                            > >>> > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
                            > >>> > > make enough
                            > >>> > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
                            > >>> > > with a mind of
                            > >>> > > its own. Thanks!
                            > >>> > >
                            > >>> > > Angie
                            > >>> > >
                            > >>> > >
                            > >> >
                            > >> >
                            > >> > __________________________________
                            > >> > Do you Yahoo!?
                            > >> > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
                            > >> > http://photos.yahoo.com/
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            > >
                            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                            Service
                            > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Steve Bryant
                            Hello, Does anyone know of a class/workshop in the southeast region for marbling scarves or other fabrics? I ve read books, etc, but I d like the hands-on
                            Message 13 of 16 , Dec 16, 2003
                              Hello, Does anyone know of a class/workshop in the southeast region for marbling scarves or other fabrics? I've read books, etc, but I'd like the "hands-on" learning. thanks. Cynthia


                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: peggy skycraft
                              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:43 PM
                              Subject: [Marbling] Fix your troublesome size


                              Dear Angela:

                              I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few "seconds."
                              Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.

                              Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken pattern
                              and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.) Dissolve
                              a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath (about
                              two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a problem,
                              add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
                              your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add Calgon
                              (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.

                              There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
                              worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh size
                              and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic bacterial
                              degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)

                              Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
                              Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it to be
                              a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive carrageen.

                              I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much dissolved
                              acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be that
                              the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.

                              Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what the
                              temprature or humidity is.

                              Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
                              Calgon solves this too.

                              Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush. Rinse
                              well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
                              think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such are
                              used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if I
                              want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
                              acrylic at all.

                              Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.

                              Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can be
                              dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
                              evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf in
                              the size.

                              Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the marbling.
                              Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
                              into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
                              with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
                              rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.

                              Yours, Peggy Skycraft

                              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
                              wrote:
                              > Dear Angela,
                              > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
                              > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
                              > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
                              > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
                              > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
                              > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
                              > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
                              > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
                              > response. Good Luck.
                              > Robin Olson, Chicago
                              > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
                              > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
                              > > contaminated about
                              > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
                              > > blank spots in the
                              > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
                              > > carrageenan as my
                              > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
                              > > size was the
                              > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
                              > > the weather was
                              > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
                              > > just moved my work
                              > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
                              > > temperature is about
                              > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
                              > > do I clean them?
                              > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
                              > > further contaminate
                              > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
                              > > almost no humidity,
                              > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
                              > > skim using
                              > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
                              > > Any suggestions
                              > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
                              > > although I can
                              > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
                              > > flaw, I would
                              > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
                              > > make enough
                              > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
                              > > with a mind of
                              > > its own. Thanks!
                              > >
                              > > Angie
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              > __________________________________
                              > Do you Yahoo!?
                              > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
                              > http://photos.yahoo.com/


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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • carylhanc@aol.com
                              Hi! Laura Sims is teaching a week long workshop at Arrowmont (Gatlinburg, TN) in late March. The website is www.arrowmont.org. Arrowmont was the site of the
                              Message 14 of 16 , Dec 17, 2003
                                Hi!
                                Laura Sims is teaching a week long workshop at Arrowmont (Gatlinburg, TN) in
                                late March. The website is www.arrowmont.org. Arrowmont was the site of the
                                Marbler's Gathering a year ago - great crafts center! (and the food is good,
                                too!)
                                HTH!
                                Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis
                              • James M Mahoney
                                Hello, Cynthia - I will be teaching a one-day class of fabric marbling on February 19th in New Bern, North Carolina if you are interested in that area of the
                                Message 15 of 16 , Dec 18, 2003
                                  Hello, Cynthia -
                                  I will be teaching a one-day class of fabric marbling on February 19th in
                                  New Bern, North Carolina if you are interested in that area of the
                                  southeast. If this is of any interest, please e-mail me and I will give
                                  you particulars.
                                  Monita Mahoney
                                  On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:07:08 -0800 "Steve Bryant" <jsbryant@...>
                                  writes:
                                  > Hello, Does anyone know of a class/workshop in the southeast
                                  > region for marbling scarves or other fabrics? I've read books, etc,
                                  > but I'd like the "hands-on" learning. thanks. Cynthia
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: peggy skycraft
                                  > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:43 PM
                                  > Subject: [Marbling] Fix your troublesome size
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Dear Angela:
                                  >
                                  > I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few
                                  > "seconds."
                                  > Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.
                                  >
                                  > Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken
                                  > pattern
                                  > and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.)
                                  > Dissolve
                                  > a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath
                                  > (about
                                  > two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a
                                  > problem,
                                  > add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I
                                  > think
                                  > your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add
                                  > Calgon
                                  > (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.
                                  >
                                  > There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I
                                  > have
                                  > worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding
                                  > fresh size
                                  > and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic
                                  > bacterial
                                  > degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors
                                  > breakup.)
                                  >
                                  > Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
                                  > Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it
                                  > to be
                                  > a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive
                                  > carrageen.
                                  >
                                  > I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much
                                  > dissolved
                                  > acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be
                                  > that
                                  > the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.
                                  >
                                  > Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what
                                  > the
                                  > temprature or humidity is.
                                  >
                                  > Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too
                                  > mineral.
                                  > Calgon solves this too.
                                  >
                                  > Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush.
                                  > Rinse
                                  > well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do
                                  > not
                                  > think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such
                                  > are
                                  > used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything
                                  > if I
                                  > want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible
                                  > with
                                  > acrylic at all.
                                  >
                                  > Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.
                                  >
                                  > Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk
                                  > can be
                                  > dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This
                                  > allows
                                  > evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum
                                  > dissolvingf in
                                  > the size.
                                  >
                                  > Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the
                                  > marbling.
                                  > Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip
                                  > back
                                  > into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and
                                  > rinse
                                  > with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them
                                  > to
                                  > rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.
                                  >
                                  > Yours, Peggy Skycraft
                                  >
                                  > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson
                                  > <dave1robin@y...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > > Dear Angela,
                                  > > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
                                  > > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
                                  > > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
                                  > > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
                                  > > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
                                  > > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
                                  > > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
                                  > > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
                                  > > response. Good Luck.
                                  > > Robin Olson, Chicago
                                  > > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
                                  > > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
                                  > > > contaminated about
                                  > > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
                                  > > > blank spots in the
                                  > > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
                                  > > > carrageenan as my
                                  > > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
                                  > > > size was the
                                  > > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
                                  > > > the weather was
                                  > > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
                                  > > > just moved my work
                                  > > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
                                  > > > temperature is about
                                  > > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
                                  > > > do I clean them?
                                  > > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
                                  > > > further contaminate
                                  > > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
                                  > > > almost no humidity,
                                  > > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
                                  > > > skim using
                                  > > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
                                  > > > Any suggestions
                                  > > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
                                  > > > although I can
                                  > > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
                                  > > > flaw, I would
                                  > > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
                                  > > > make enough
                                  > > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
                                  > > > with a mind of
                                  > > > its own. Thanks!
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Angie
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > __________________________________
                                  > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                  > > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
                                  > > http://photos.yahoo.com/
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                  > Service.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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