Thanks for the info.....I think the Permalin papers are more forgiving of
acrylics than the watercolors. I have found the tech at Permalin to be
helpful and is willing to exchange, to what I don't know but he is sending
I spoke at length to him yesterday. I realize there is no plot, they just
don't, understandably tailor their product to marblers and all our quirks.
There is nothing wrong with their paper, this I agree with. What my major
objection was, was that the TEST sheets they sent marbled beautifully. a
salesperson GUARANTEED me that the papers I would buy would be from the
SAME RUN, SAME FORMULA period. She said to buy a lot in case they started
changing things, which they had been talking about. I sent the order in
writing, explaining why I must have the same stuff. I ordered 3,000 sheets
on her advice. Then another person said she should never have promised me
the same run.
But they are being cooperative. If I can't find a suitable exchange they
will send a half refund, which I feel unfair due to the promises I was
made. If I can find an alternative sheet from them I will take it and use
it up. But from here on in (and I shall be informed of any formula changes)
I am sticking to Natur Text from Atlantic papers. It costs 4X as much and I
have had to put up my prices by 50 cents (had not raised in 4 years
anyway), but it is a beautiful and luxurious paper. It is wove, and for a
laid paper I like the Ingres. Ironically, these papers are buffered, but
apparently not with much excess, as I can still taste the alum when dried
on the paper. And oddly enough...on the permalin test sheets I could taste
it, but NOT on the 3,000 I ordered. Maybe the commercial papers are just
dumping a great excess of CC in or other buffer.....and yes, it affects the
sheets strength horribly.....I have had more corners tear and papers ruined
that I can count. It's like the fibers are shortened or something, the wet
strength went way down too on the Classic Linen that I got. Stuck with
2,000 sheets of that too.
I have agreed to be a reseller for the Natur Text and Ingres for Atlantic,
on my website along with the other supplies(they only deal in quantity
orders). I just love these papers so much, I almost wish I had had this
problem earlier! Well, not really! But it is nice after all this travail to
discover something that is way better than before.
I am just kissing the feet of the Marbling Dieties right now that I am able
to work at all! It has been a horror show of ghastly running color and torn
Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
I am once again connected to this dialogue. I had been connected to
ListOne, but got discouraged with the time it took to sort through
things to find items of interest to me. Now the flashing ads on Yahoo
are just the limit. Ugh! I am trying to sort through to find letters
that have tidbits for me, and to see what is happening, I suppose.
A caller recently informed me that there was a lot of talk about
Permalin papers having suddenly become "no good."
schleiker had called me in a panic, so I was worried too. I think I need
more information about exactly which papers have failed, as I have been
using Permalin for years and the last 3 cartons bought recently are
fine. Black (the new Coal), Cream, RedBordeaux. The papers I had trouble
with in the past were when they mistakenly substituted "New White" for
the Cream. The new white was acid free and acted a lot like paper towel.
Absorbent to the point the alum was not strong enough on the surface to
allow patterns to set. It also was so weak the papers tore when I tried
to do paste patterns on them. I now use them for backing when we press
the finished papers in the dry mount press. Recycled content is OK but
not acid free. For most of my work I buffer the papers to correct pH.
There was one version of a fabulous deep black " Ultra Black" that was
too absorbent for marbling, but I loved it for the painted papers. So
dark and rich. Discontinued because it leaked glue through the sheet
when used in industrial binding. Another bad paper was the light gray,
which was fine until it became more absorbent and pinholed. The painted
papers (which have a lot of runny colors) would go through tiny holes
and leak onto the backs. Trouble city for a line of framers paper I was
Anyway, I recently called my Permalin paper rep, and asked him to find
out what the fuss was about. He did so and informed me he could find no
news at all about paper formulas or pulps being intentionally changed.
Like there is not a plot. No secrets, etc. Each time I have received a
carton of "bad" paper, Permalin has replaced it.
The Permalin line is made up of papers from several mills. Permalin
contracts to have runs of paper made to their specifications. It is
mostly sold in huge rolls to the commercial trade binderies, and the
papers are made to suit their needs. It has to be very strong, take
gluing well and able to be embossed with a variety of surface patterns.
Naturally they are not in absolute control of the makeup of the pulps,
and they get unfortunate surprises that end up costing a lot of money.
The effort is to have a reliable and uniform product.
Call me if you want to buy Permalin papers to try. I usually have 15
If you like, see www.skycraft.com for the colors. 1-800-578-5608
I will be glad to address technical questions about paints,pigments and
mediums for marbling. I know WAY too much and am too remote
geographically to teach much. Too far away from the market and I did
that years ago anyway. All that schlepping!
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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From: PEGGY <peggy@...
Mailing-List: list Marbling@yahoogroups.com
Delivered-To: mailing list Marbling@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 00:06:47 -0800
Subject: [Marbling] tech questions re paper
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