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Re: [Marbling] Re: Buffering or...

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  • irisnevins
    Thanks Vi.....let s hope the solution is as simple as this (pardon the pun!) I will try it Monday...did you marble damp or dry...as in pre-alum a few days
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 14, 2003
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      Thanks Vi.....let's hope the solution is as simple as this (pardon the
      pun!) I will try it Monday...did you marble damp or dry...as in pre-alum a
      few days ahead? I do find the dry way works better, way better, with
      buffered paper than damp does.

      iris nevins

      Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      >
      Iris ...About 1/6th of a teaspoon in 2 pints of water, plus your alum
      quantity. For you that will need to be a little more salt, since a US
      teaspoon is 15 mls whereas ours is 20mls. The pint measure is 16 fluid
      ounces -- just to complicate matters! You might like to look at the
      article in Ink & Gall Vol.5 No. 2 Marbling With a Pinch of Salt. Whatever

      the difficulties I was having at that time, they seemed to resolve
      themselves. Different paper, perhaps. I do recall it was the Canson mi
      tiente that was such a pain, but because it was not the principal paper I
      used, it may have been a self-solving problem. Anyway, it is worth a try,
      and a few pounds of salt (if it works for you) is a lot cheaper than
      quitting 5000 sheets of paper.
      <
    • V. Wilson
      Usually damp, since the longer the alum was left in contact with the paper, the greater the risk of the colours washing off. I mentioned this in an email a
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 14, 2003
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        Usually damp, since the longer the alum was left in contact with the paper,
        the greater the risk of the colours washing off. I mentioned this in an
        email a couple of months ago, concerning some paper that Don Guyot
        had. Even now, if I come across a problem paper, I marble it as soon as I
        can, to minimize the reaction between the alum and the calcium carbonate,
        (if the calcium carbonate is the problem, and I suspect it is). Some
        papers, like the discontinued Chambray Text, could be marbled months after
        they were alummed. Sigh!!

        I will be interested to see what happens with the salt. It may have just
        been an idiosyncrasy of marbling, for me, at that time.

        Vi

        At 11:15 PM 14/11/2003, you wrote:
        >Thanks Vi.....let's hope the solution is as simple as this (pardon the
        >pun!) I will try it Monday...did you marble damp or dry...as in pre-alum a
        >few days ahead? I do find the dry way works better, way better, with
        >buffered paper than damp does.
        >
        >iris nevins



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • irisnevins
        hmmm....and I find the buffered paper works better dry! I will try aluming some with salt tomorrow for next week s work (gasp.... a 232 sheet order! It HAS TO
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 14, 2003
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          hmmm....and I find the buffered paper works better dry! I will try aluming
          some with salt tomorrow for next week's work (gasp.... a 232 sheet order!
          It HAS TO work!).

          I think that too much salt may "curdle" the size so will have heart in
          mouth!
          Iris Nevins


          Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
          >
          Usually damp, since the longer the alum was left in contact with the paper,

          the greater the risk of the colours washing off. I mentioned this in an
          email a couple of months ago, concerning some paper that Don Guyot
          had. Even now, if I come across a problem paper, I marble it as soon as I
          can, to minimize the reaction between the alum and the calcium carbonate,
          (if the calcium carbonate is the problem, and I suspect it is). Some
          papers, like the discontinued Chambray Text, could be marbled months after
          they were alummed. Sigh!!

          I will be interested to see what happens with the salt. It may have just
          been an idiosyncrasy of marbling, for me, at that time.

          Vi<
        • V. Wilson
          Iris, have you considered that it might be the increased amount of filler used in the manufacture of paper, making it a more receptive surface for modern
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 14, 2003
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            Iris, have you considered that it might be the increased amount of filler
            used in the manufacture of paper, making it a more receptive surface for
            modern printing methods - inkjet, laser, etc.? The following about paper
            manufacture--


            Fillers and pigments

            • Usage, preparation and processing of fillers and pigments (china clay,
            fine grounded and precipitated calcium carbonate, talc, mica and others)
            for paper industry
            • Evaluation of the quality of commercial and new types of fillers and pigments
            • Development and modification of fillers and pigments

            Bit of a soup really.
            Vi

            At 11:15 PM 14/11/2003, you wrote:
            >Thanks Vi.....let's hope the solution is as simple as this (pardon the
            >pun!) I will try it Monday...did you marble damp or dry...as in pre-alum a
            >few days ahead? I do find the dry way works better, way better, with
            >buffered paper than damp does.
            >
            >iris nevins
            >
            >Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            >Iris ...About 1/6th of a teaspoon in 2 pints of water, plus your alum
            >quantity. For you that will need to be a little more salt, since a US
            >teaspoon is 15 mls whereas ours is 20mls. The pint measure is 16 fluid
            >ounces -- just to complicate matters! You might like to look at the
            >article in Ink & Gall Vol.5 No. 2 Marbling With a Pinch of Salt. Whatever
            >
            >the difficulties I was having at that time, they seemed to resolve
            >themselves. Different paper, perhaps. I do recall it was the Canson mi
            >tiente that was such a pain, but because it was not the principal paper I
            >used, it may have been a self-solving problem. Anyway, it is worth a try,
            >and a few pounds of salt (if it works for you) is a lot cheaper than
            >quitting 5000 sheets of paper.
            ><
            >
            >
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • irisnevins
            Well, all I know is that numerous paper companies I have used or had contact with say that there is a recent addition of CC to the soup. So that s why I am
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 15, 2003
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              Well, all I know is that numerous paper companies I have used or had
              contact with say that there is a recent addition of CC to the soup. So
              that's why I am pretyy sure that is the culprit...unless they changed
              everything at the same time.
              thanks for that info,
              Iris



              Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
              >
              Iris, have you considered that it might be the increased amount of filler
              used in the manufacture of paper, making it a more receptive surface for
              modern printing methods - inkjet, laser, etc.? The following about paper
              manufacture--


              Fillers and pigments

              • Usage, preparation and processing of fillers and pigments (china clay,
              fine grounded and precipitated calcium carbonate, talc, mica and others)
              for paper industry
              • Evaluation of the quality of commercial and new types of fillers and
              pigments
              • Development and modification of fillers and pigments

              Bit of a soup really.
              Vi<
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