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Methylcellulose

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  • Geri Burgert
    Please pardon an ignorant question from a rank amateur. I ve seen people mention carageenan and methylcellulose in the same context. Are they interchangeable?
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 11, 2003
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      Please pardon an ignorant question from a rank amateur. I've seen people
      mention carageenan and methylcellulose in the same context. Are they
      interchangeable? I've used only carageenan so far.

      Thank you for your kind help!
      Geri
    • Dave Allen
      Jill, I have heard that you have to mix ammonia in with Methyle cellulose. Dave ... David Allen Beddall Bookbinding Conservation & Restoration 840 Snowdrop
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 11, 2003
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        Jill,
        I have heard that you have to mix ammonia in with Methyle cellulose.
        Dave
        At 07:22 PM 11/11/03 -0500, you wrote:
        >They are two different substances. I can't quote anyone on it--but--I have
        >the impression more people use the carrageenan than the
        >methylcellulose...........As a rank amateur myself--i much prefer the
        >carrageenan.
        >Jill
        >----- Original Message -----
        >From: "Geri Burgert" <gburgert@...>
        >To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
        >Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 4:29 PM
        >Subject: [Marbling] Methylcellulose
        >
        >
        >> Please pardon an ignorant question from a rank amateur. I've seen people
        >> mention carageenan and methylcellulose in the same context. Are they
        >> interchangeable? I've used only carageenan so far.
        >>
        >> Thank you for your kind help!
        >> Geri
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        David Allen
        Beddall Bookbinding Conservation & Restoration
        840 Snowdrop Avenue
        Victoria, British Columbia
        CANADA V8Z 2N4
        (250) 888-9380
        http://www.webvictoria.com/beddall
        "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." -- Groucho Marx
        How wonderful opera would be if there were no singers.
        - Gioacchino Rossini, 1792 - 1868
      • J Dolphin
        They are two different substances. I can t quote anyone on it--but--I have the impression more people use the carrageenan than the methylcellulose...........As
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 11, 2003
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          They are two different substances. I can't quote anyone on it--but--I have
          the impression more people use the carrageenan than the
          methylcellulose...........As a rank amateur myself--i much prefer the
          carrageenan.
          Jill
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Geri Burgert" <gburgert@...>
          To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 4:29 PM
          Subject: [Marbling] Methylcellulose


          > Please pardon an ignorant question from a rank amateur. I've seen people
          > mention carageenan and methylcellulose in the same context. Are they
          > interchangeable? I've used only carageenan so far.
          >
          > Thank you for your kind help!
          > Geri
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • J Dolphin
          Well--I don t know..............When I have used the methylcellulose--I used it without.................Okay folks--what s the take on This one????????? Jill
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 11, 2003
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            Well--I don't know..............When I have used the methylcellulose--I used
            it without.................Okay folks--what's the take on This one?????????
            Jill
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Dave Allen" <allen@...>
            To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 7:19 PM
            Subject: Re: [Marbling] Methylcellulose


            > Jill,
            > I have heard that you have to mix ammonia in with Methyle cellulose.
            > Dave
            > At 07:22 PM 11/11/03 -0500, you wrote:
            > >They are two different substances. I can't quote anyone on it--but--I
            have
            > >the impression more people use the carrageenan than the
            > >methylcellulose...........As a rank amateur myself--i much prefer the
            > >carrageenan.
            > >Jill
            > >----- Original Message -----
            > >From: "Geri Burgert" <gburgert@...>
            > >To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            > >Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 4:29 PM
            > >Subject: [Marbling] Methylcellulose
            > >
            > >
            > >> Please pardon an ignorant question from a rank amateur. I've seen
            people
            > >> mention carageenan and methylcellulose in the same context. Are they
            > >> interchangeable? I've used only carageenan so far.
            > >>
            > >> Thank you for your kind help!
            > >> Geri
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >>
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >
            > David Allen
            > Beddall Bookbinding Conservation & Restoration
            > 840 Snowdrop Avenue
            > Victoria, British Columbia
            > CANADA V8Z 2N4
            > (250) 888-9380
            > http://www.webvictoria.com/beddall
            > "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's
            too dark to read." -- Groucho Marx
            > How wonderful opera would be if there were no singers.
            > - Gioacchino Rossini, 1792 - 1868
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
          • gretchen vansant
            As a fabric marbler,and a really new-bee of only 6years doing this.I,ve found I prefer methol cellulose,I find it easyer to prepare,and it keeps better in
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 11, 2003
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              As a fabric marbler,and a really "new-bee" of only 6years doing this.I,ve found I prefer methol cellulose,I find it easyer to prepare,and it "keeps better in the hot seasons.But I,ve read,or noticed, here with other "real" paper/fabric marblers and they like carregeenan better.I found certain paints work better,with either one kind of bath,maybe not with the other.visa-versa. Do you stick with a sure thing,or experiment? thats up to the artist,and with me has kept me low in funds.Gotta fund my art habit...good luck! gretchen

              Geri Burgert <gburgert@...> wrote:Please pardon an ignorant question from a rank amateur. I've seen people
              mention carageenan and methylcellulose in the same context. Are they
              interchangeable? I've used only carageenan so far.

              Thank you for your kind help!
              Geri



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            • gretchen vansant
              Funny I didn,t see the original question.....I guess I use a table spoon of CLEAR ammonia when mixing my bath,per 2 1/2 gallons of water. gretchen J
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 11, 2003
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                Funny I didn,t see the original question.....I guess I use a table spoon of CLEAR ammonia when mixing my bath,per 2 1/2 gallons of water. gretchen


                J Dolphin <jdolphin@...> wrote:
                Well--I don't know..............When I have used the methylcellulose--I used
                it without.................Okay folks--what's the take on This one?????????
                Jill
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Dave Allen" <allen@...>
                To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 7:19 PM
                Subject: Re: [Marbling] Methylcellulose


                > Jill,
                > I have heard that you have to mix ammonia in with Methyle cellulose.
                > Dave
                > At 07:22 PM 11/11/03 -0500, you wrote:
                > >They are two different substances. I can't quote anyone on it--but--I
                have
                > >the impression more people use the carrageenan than the
                > >methylcellulose...........As a rank amateur myself--i much prefer the
                > >carrageenan.
                > >Jill
                > >----- Original Message -----
                > >From: "Geri Burgert" <gburgert@...>
                > >To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                > >Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 4:29 PM
                > >Subject: [Marbling] Methylcellulose
                > >
                > >
                > >> Please pardon an ignorant question from a rank amateur. I've seen
                people
                > >> mention carageenan and methylcellulose in the same context. Are they
                > >> interchangeable? I've used only carageenan so far.
                > >>
                > >> Thank you for your kind help!
                > >> Geri
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
                > >
                > David Allen
                > Beddall Bookbinding Conservation & Restoration
                > 840 Snowdrop Avenue
                > Victoria, British Columbia
                > CANADA V8Z 2N4
                > (250) 888-9380
                > http://www.webvictoria.com/beddall
                > "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's
                too dark to read." -- Groucho Marx
                > How wonderful opera would be if there were no singers.
                > - Gioacchino Rossini, 1792 - 1868
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >



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              • hamburgerbuntpapier_de
                As acrylics is not acrylics is not acrylics, methylcellulose is not methylcellulose is not methylcellulose. Kremer s Germany offers five sorts, and there
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 29, 2005
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                  As acrylics is not acrylics is not acrylics, methylcellulose is not methylcellulose is not
                  methylcellulose. Kremer's Germany offers five sorts, and there (meaning: here in Germany)
                  are several suppliers of wallpaper paste with something they claim to be MC on offer. Each
                  sort behaves in another way and needs another solution. Don't despair - test.

                  Susanne Krause
                • Jake Benson
                  To piggy-back on Susanne s comment, I d like to gently remind everyone that I posted a detailed message about the different kinds of methyl cell a few years
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jan 29, 2005
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                    To piggy-back on Susanne's comment, I'd like to gently remind everyone that I posted a
                    detailed message about the different kinds of methyl cell a few years ago...

                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling/message/642

                    This was distilled from an even longer posting that I made to the Book Arts List.

                    http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byform/mailing-lists/bookarts/2001/08/msg00059.html

                    If you are using MC in bookbinding, you may want to look at both postings.

                    Has anyone has used the type made by Van Waters and Rogers, and sold
                    by Daniel Smith, for papermaking size. It was cheaper than some others available.

                    Carol mentioned using ammoina and vinegar, which is SPECIFICALLY used for "cold-water
                    dispersible grade MC", sold for marbling by Pro Chem, Earth Guild, Dharma
                    Trading, and other suppliers. They don't tell you what they are selling. Most varieties are
                    dispersed in hot water, and not cold. This formula has been "surface treated" for that
                    specific purpose, and is a bit more expensive.

                    Iris- i could never get water color to float on any kind of MC.
                    Perhaps if I used photo-flo or soap ?
                    tobacco leaf juice? Lol!

                    As far as Martha marbling.... perhaps it will inspire younger people to have an interest in
                    this? I get the feeling sometimes I'm one of the younger ones in here...

                    Jake
                  • IRIS NEVINS
                    glad I am not the only one with watercolor/MC woes....not that I am glad you had trouble, but glad to know it wasn t me!LOL! Marbling is so humbling! iris ...
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jan 29, 2005
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                      glad I am not the only one with watercolor/MC woes....not that I am glad you had trouble, but glad to know it wasn't me!LOL! Marbling is so humbling!

                      iris
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Jake Benson<mailto:handbindery@...>
                      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 1:58 PM
                      Subject: [Marbling] Re: Methylcellulose




                      To piggy-back on Susanne's comment, I'd like to gently remind everyone that I posted a
                      detailed message about the different kinds of methyl cell a few years ago...

                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling/message/642<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling/message/642>

                      This was distilled from an even longer posting that I made to the Book Arts List.

                      http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byform/mailing-lists/bookarts/2001/08/msg00059.html<http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byform/mailing-lists/bookarts/2001/08/msg00059.html>

                      If you are using MC in bookbinding, you may want to look at both postings.

                      Has anyone has used the type made by Van Waters and Rogers, and sold
                      by Daniel Smith, for papermaking size. It was cheaper than some others available.

                      Carol mentioned using ammoina and vinegar, which is SPECIFICALLY used for "cold-water
                      dispersible grade MC", sold for marbling by Pro Chem, Earth Guild, Dharma
                      Trading, and other suppliers. They don't tell you what they are selling. Most varieties are
                      dispersed in hot water, and not cold. This formula has been "surface treated" for that
                      specific purpose, and is a bit more expensive.

                      Iris- i could never get water color to float on any kind of MC.
                      Perhaps if I used photo-flo or soap ?
                      tobacco leaf juice? Lol!

                      As far as Martha marbling.... perhaps it will inspire younger people to have an interest in
                      this? I get the feeling sometimes I'm one of the younger ones in here...

                      Jake










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