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  • irisnevins
    Hi Susanne.....I am working on an article for the Marbling Journal on papers (Marie....I PROMISE IT SOON, should be another week or two of testing a few more
    Message 1 of 22 , Oct 15, 2003
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      Hi Susanne.....I am working on an article for the Marbling Journal on
      papers (Marie....I PROMISE IT SOON, should be another week or two of
      testing a few more papers) I will post my findings ahead on this group. I
      am testing a lot of papers right now, and sadly most don't work, due to
      calcium carbonate buffering.

      The ones I like best right now and will likely choose as my standby papers
      are Hahnemuele Ingres for a textured and Permalin for a smooth paper. The
      Ingres is in big art stores but expensive. Permalin is in NYC at
      212-768-7500. You can request swatch books and sheets to test. There are
      large minimum orders required, I think about 650 sheets. I was considering
      adding suitable papers to my marbling supply line at a discount from the
      art stores, papers I would stock and test constantly and know worked, and
      could keep on top of the rediculous ruination of one good paper after
      another due to the current buffering practice. The papers were so good and
      so very long life before, I find this to be a politically correct selling
      point, and frankly the masses have no clue what it means. There is a place
      for is if desired for sure, but nowadays finding a non buffered paper (many
      of these were also acid neutral by the way so why bother) is near
      impossible.

      I was also speaking to one mill about creating a paper ideal for marbling
      and marketing it as such. One smaller mill is willing to try this if I
      would be willing to test it for them....the catch is the minumum order is
      about 40,000 sheets. I can currently store half of that, the investment
      high, but would be worth its weight in gold to be able to have some good
      reliable paper though.

      Sorry to rant on about this but even some of the manufacturers I have
      spoken to find this buffering silly, but the masses want it because they
      have been fed an idea they have no clue about,and they will lose sales
      unless they do this. It is really a problem.

      Anyway....papers I know work, are the Ingres, Canson...though it is also
      usually heavy, Strathmore Charcoal. I can get my newly buffered Classic
      Linen to work fairly well by using 1 1/2 TBS alum to a cup of hot water,
      but this must be bought in cartons of at least 1000 sheets and I don't
      recomment it anymore anyway. Before anyone faints over the huge amount of
      alum, remember that the buffering is still there counteracting most of the
      alum. I don't know if this works on other buffered papers and frankly am so
      fed up I don't want to try ordering and testing other bad papers. And I
      should mention that the tests are all done with my own paints, I don't have
      time to test how others work.....but any of you who use other paints I
      would really love to hear how they work on what papers. That could be a
      lively discussion here as well.

      Good luck,
      Iris Nevins
      www.marblingpaper.com


      Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
      >
      Hello marblers, I have been lurking for a while and have decided to ask you

      all a question that has been nagging at me for years. I work exclusively
      with Rising Stonehenge - a heavy printmaking paper. I need to start doing
      some marbling on a lighter weight paper. What is your favorite? Any quirks
      I
      should know about? Where do you order from - in the USA if possible. I
      appreciate in advance any information you would be willing to share with
      me.
      Thanks, Susanne<
    • Laura Sims
      Dear Gretchen, You can use air brush colors with Golden GAC 900 fabric medium. Once the print is dry it will need to be heat set by ironing on the reverse
      Message 2 of 22 , Mar 9, 2005
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        Dear Gretchen,

        You can use air brush colors with Golden GAC 900
        fabric medium. Once the print is dry it will need to
        be heat set by ironing on the reverse side. You may
        find that some of the air brush (ex. phthalo blue) get
        tiny holes in the paint membrane once it spreads to a
        full circle. If you want large stones instead of a
        manipulated pattern this can be a problem. Add some
        GAC 100 to strengthen it. Golden's line of Fluid
        Acrylics also work well. You also want to get some
        Golden Flow Release for a surfactant. The GAC 900
        aids in spreading most colors nicely, but if you want
        to use iridescents or some colors like dioxazine
        purple you will want to add a couple of drops of flow
        release to your mixture. Golden has a wonderful
        folder of information that they will send you about
        their paint. Ask for their marbling instruction as
        well.

        Best,
        Laura Sims
        Indigo Stone Studio

        --- gretchen vansant
        <vansantdesigns@...> wrote:
        > Hello to all....Well I'm fine tuning my fabric
        > marbling,so I'm tring new paints. Golden paints like
        > many of you paper marblers use.I was told to use
        > the air brush colors (unfortunately I only said I
        > was marbling ,not fabric marbling at the store )when
        > I got home I knowticed the instuctions said " not
        > for use on clothes" augh ...So what kind of "golden
        > paints" do I use for fabric (using methol cel bath)?
        > Is there a heatset for this product? and info would
        > be helpful. gretchen
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
        > removed]
        >
        >




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      • irisnevins
        when I use my own watercolor paints I hang them right up, you just have to get a feel for what the right amount of paint is. If you want/need to rinse I lay
        Message 3 of 22 , May 12, 2005
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          when I use my own watercolor paints I hang them right up, you just have to get a feel for what the right amount of paint is. If you want/need to rinse I lay them on a slanted board in a big sink and you can just gently pour water over them. Also most American made papers nowadays don't hold the paints as well if at all.

          iris nevins
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002@...>
          To: marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 8:27 PM
          Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)


          Hello Everyone, Well I somewhat mastered fabric marbling, but I've been doing some paper (as you know Iris !). So I ask you paper marbler's ,do you slide your paper off the edge of the vat to squeegee" off the size? or are you just lifting and gently rinsing, till size is off? I've gotten some smearing when rinsing off the size from the paper. I don't want to rinse to much which smears the paint,but I feel its still slippery. Does it matter if there's alittle size left on? Its trial and error here ...I don't want to spoil to many papers.Any thoughts are appreciated Thanks Gretchen



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        • gretchen vansant
          Iris ,I m purposely using the nature text,on your recomendation! So lets see! Thanks! Gretchen irisnevins wrote:when I use my own
          Message 4 of 22 , May 12, 2005
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            Iris ,I'm purposely using the nature text,on your recomendation! So lets see! Thanks! Gretchen

            irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote:when I use my own watercolor paints I hang them right up, you just have to get a feel for what the right amount of paint is. If you want/need to rinse I lay them on a slanted board in a big sink and you can just gently pour water over them. Also most American made papers nowadays don't hold the paints as well if at all.

            iris nevins
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002@...>
            To: marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 8:27 PM
            Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)


            Hello Everyone, Well I somewhat mastered fabric marbling, but I've been doing some paper (as you know Iris !). So I ask you paper marbler's ,do you slide your paper off the edge of the vat to squeegee" off the size? or are you just lifting and gently rinsing, till size is off? I've gotten some smearing when rinsing off the size from the paper. I don't want to rinse to much which smears the paint,but I feel its still slippery. Does it matter if there's alittle size left on? Its trial and error here ...I don't want to spoil to many papers.Any thoughts are appreciated Thanks Gretchen



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          • irisnevins
            Gretchen....ya think maybe they changed the paint formula? What brand...are others having the same problems with new batches of the stuff? Do you use methyl
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 16, 2005
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              Gretchen....ya think maybe they changed the paint formula? What brand...are others having the same problems with new batches of the stuff? Do you use methyl cel or carrageenan...maybe you got a different grade by accident. Check with the suppliers.Or have you?

              Iris NEvins

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002@...>
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 1:46 PM
              Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)


              Thank you everyone, again I'm trying to solve paint dropping problem. I'm doing everything the same,even more dispersent ,but no luck. First I'm gonna try warming up the room alittle more, afilter on the water source,new paints, If it comes down to it bottled distilled water. But alas using bottled water IS expensive for me. I use 22-26 gallons ,but its better than wasting time energy and supplies! Gretchen


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            • gretchen vansant
              I m useing everything from before I moved. So my paints are low in the bottle , perhapes they got warm when transported accross the country. But I really think
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 16, 2005
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                I'm useing everything from before I moved. So my paints are low in the bottle , perhapes they got warm when transported accross the country. But I really think its the calcium ,and the temp of the room. I should get some "testing tape?" to test the water ,or the size. Whats the proper Number for alkalitity? I am a methol celulose user. thanks for any help gretchen

                irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote: Gretchen....ya think maybe they changed the paint formula? What brand...are others having the same problems with new batches of the stuff? Do you use methyl cel or carrageenan...maybe you got a different grade by accident. Check with the suppliers.Or have you?

                Iris NEvins

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002@...>
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 1:46 PM
                Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)


                Thank you everyone, again I'm trying to solve paint dropping problem. I'm doing everything the same,even more dispersent ,but no luck. First I'm gonna try warming up the room alittle more, afilter on the water source,new paints, If it comes down to it bottled distilled water. But alas using bottled water IS expensive for me. I use 22-26 gallons ,but its better than wasting time energy and supplies! Gretchen


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              • Gail MacKenzie
                ... Yes, Gretchen, I think that Calgon has a product that will help. First, what paints and type of methyl cel are you using? It¹s hard to test the Ph of
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 17, 2005
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                  > I'm useing everything from before I moved. So my paints are low in the bottle
                  > , perhapes they got warm when transported accross the country. But I really
                  > think its the calcium ,and the temp of the room. I should get some "testing
                  > tape?" to test the water ,or the size. Whats the proper Number for alkalitity?
                  > I am a methol celulose user. thanks for any help gretchen
                  >
                  > irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote: Gretchen....ya think maybe they
                  > changed the paint formula? What brand...are others having the same problems
                  > with new batches of the stuff? Do you use methyl cel or carrageenan...maybe
                  > you got a different grade by accident. Check with the suppliers.Or have you?
                  >
                  > Iris NEvins
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002@...>
                  > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 1:46 PM
                  > Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)
                  >
                  >
                  > Thank you everyone, again I'm trying to solve paint dropping problem. I'm
                  > doing everything the same,even more dispersent ,but no luck. First I'm gonna
                  > try warming up the room alittle more, afilter on the water source,new paints,
                  > If it comes down to it bottled distilled water. But alas using bottled water
                  > IS expensive for me. I use 22-26 gallons ,but its better than wasting time
                  > energy and supplies! Gretchen
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                  >
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                  >
                  >
                  >
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                  Yes, Gretchen, I think that Calgon has a product that will help. First,
                  what paints and type of methyl cel are you using? It¹s hard to test the Ph
                  of the paints and I have yet to find a company that will tell me the Ph of
                  their products other than Ruppert, Gibbon and Spider in Northern CA...but,
                  they do have an 800 number.

                  Anyhow, the Calgon product is available by mail through their internet site.
                  It is the powdered form that comes in a box. I used to mix 4 gallons of
                  (very hard) water as cold as possible with one level cup of JM 5 methyl cel
                  and quickly stir in one level tablespoon of the calgon powder. It¹s the
                  most perfect product that I could find (and they removed the perfume about
                  10 years ago) The ideal Ph should be between 6-7 and the temperature of
                  everything above 65degrees. Iris and I had an interesting discussion once,
                  about how different our ideal conditions for marbling were!! Good luck
                  again. And to Iris...I can¹t wait to order the new CD!!


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • carylhanc@aol.com
                  ... Hi! This is interesting information about dissolving methylcel. Every package of methylcel that I have ever bought has you add non-sudsing ammonia, from
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 17, 2005
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                    In a message dated 11/17/05 10:54:13 AM, gailmackenzi@... writes:


                    > I used to mix 4 gallons of
                    > (very hard) water as cold as possible with one level cup of JM 5 methyl cel
                    > and quickly stir in one level tablespoon of the calgon powder. It〓s the
                    > most perfect product that I could find (and they removed the perfume about
                    > 10 years ago) The ideal Ph should be between 6-7
                    >

                    Hi!
                    This is interesting information about dissolving methylcel. Every package
                    of methylcel that I have ever bought has you add non-sudsing ammonia, from 1
                    tsp to 1 TBSP/gallon of water to dissolve the methylcel, which raises the pH
                    significantly - anywhere from 8 to 10+. Some instructions, then have you lower
                    the pH back to a more neutral pH by adding vinegar.

                    There must be many types/formulations of methylcel....
                    Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Gail MacKenzie
                    ... Opps!! you¹re right. Then, after stirring, I add 1/4 cup white vinegar to rebalance the Ph. The calgon powder raises the Ph besides softening the
                    Message 9 of 22 , Nov 17, 2005
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                      >
                      > In a message dated 11/17/05 10:54:13 AM, gailmackenzi@... writes:
                      >
                      >
                      >> > I used to mix 4 gallons of
                      >> > (very hard) water as cold as possible with one level cup of JM 5 methyl cel
                      >> > and quickly stir in one level tablespoon of the calgon powder. It?s the
                      >> > most perfect product that I could find (and they removed the perfume about
                      >> > 10 years ago) The ideal Ph should be between 6-7
                      >> >
                      >
                      > Hi!
                      > This is interesting information about dissolving methylcel. Every package
                      > of methylcel that I have ever bought has you add non-sudsing ammonia, from 1
                      > tsp to 1 TBSP/gallon of water to dissolve the methylcel, which raises the pH
                      > significantly - anywhere from 8 to 10+. Some instructions, then have you
                      > lower
                      > the pH back to a more neutral pH by adding vinegar.
                      >
                      > There must be many types/formulations of methylcel....
                      > Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
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                      Opps!! you¹re right. Then, after stirring, I add 1/4 cup white vinegar to
                      rebalance the Ph. The calgon powder raises the Ph besides softening the
                      water. You have to raise the PH to get the methyl cel to stay in
                      suspension. There are at least a dozen different kinds of methyl
                      cel....from ice cream and instant pudding thickeners to making the water at
                      water slides more slippery!!


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • carylhanc@aol.com
                      ... Hi! Whew! Thanks, Gail. I did not know that the calgon powder raised the pH, and figured I was missing something really important! Caryl Hancock in
                      Message 10 of 22 , Nov 17, 2005
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                        In a message dated 11/17/05 4:16:29 PM, gailmackenzi@... writes:


                        > Opps!! you〓re right. Then, after stirring, I add 1/4 cup white vinegar to
                        > rebalance the Ph. The calgon powder raises the Ph besides softening the
                        > water. You have to raise the PH to get the methyl cel to stay in
                        > suspension.
                        >

                        Hi!
                        Whew! Thanks, Gail. I did not know that the calgon powder raised the pH,
                        and figured I was missing something really important!
                        Caryl Hancock in frigid Indianapolis


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • irisnevins
                        Lovely work!!! Iris Nevins www.marblingpaper.com ... From: Huzur Yolu To:
                        Message 11 of 22 , May 4, 2010
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                          Lovely work!!!
                          Iris Nevins
                          www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: '' Huzur Yolu ''<mailto:huzuryolu@...>
                          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 8:41 AM
                          Subject: [Marbling] (unknown)


                          Welcome to my Ebru Website.

                          www.gulhaneebru.wordpress.com<http://www.gulhaneebru.wordpress.com/>



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