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Re: [Marbling] Re: Marbling Base

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  • gretchen vansant
    Great note Edwa, and your welcome, YOUR VAT IS HUGE!....LOL I,ve got accouple hints....If your water is fairly good out of tap....use it ,I used distilled
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 18, 2003
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      Great note Edwa, and your welcome, YOUR VAT IS HUGE!....LOL I,ve got accouple hints....If your water is fairly good out of tap....use it ,I used distilled untill recently and well I get fine results with tap water. I get great deals from "Exotic Silks "(regarding fabric) in ca(they have a site) thats if you have a resale licence,or not? Good Luck

      Dr Zayus <greatgrapefruit@...> wrote:Thanks to those that replied to my questions about carrageenan in
      bulk and dyes that are washable.

      I've been using Dharma Trading (thanks Gretchen)to buy blank silks
      and find them a great resource for a variety of supplies and ideas,
      but their price for carrageenan seems high compared to the price for
      methyl cel from pro chem. I also use pro chem for their MX fiber
      reactive dyes. Comparing the two I see quite a markup by Dharma
      (understanably) when thay sell prochem products and since I buy in
      bulk I find it less expensive to seek out the individual
      manufacturers of products and supplies.

      When I marble, I marble large pieces of fabric, usually 60 inches
      wide and up to 8 feet long. For this I create a huge "table" on my
      work space floor. I mix about 35 gallons of methyl cel at a time to
      accomodate such a large table, hence my desire to find as
      inexpensive supplier for carrageenan as possible. The ease of mixing
      such a large quantity of base using methyl cel is attractive, but
      having only used methyl cel I am curious to experiment with
      carrageenan. From all I read I'm led to believe it has better
      characteristics for fine lines and intricate patterns than methyl
      cel.

      I have been using methyl cel and pro chem marbling colors since 1989
      with no real complaints other than the fact that fabric marbled
      using these colors doesn't wash well. That makes me curious about
      airbrush inks and how washable they are. I've sewn several styles of
      purses and backpack like bags out of fabric I've marbled and sold or
      given them to friends After a while they all seem to fade as the
      color wears off. Neckties tend to rub off color of shirt collars.
      This make me wonder (hhumler) if I am "missing out" on something
      too. Dharma sells a variety of these dyes it says marblers "love"
      them. Any comments fellow marblers?

      Anywho just wondering still if anyone knows of a supplier less
      expensive for carrageenan than Dharma?

      Edwa


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    • Maria Vernersson
      Dear everybody, A stupid question from a marbling novice: Why do you alum when you use methyl cellulose and acrylics??? I have been marbling on and off for a
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 19, 2003
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        Dear everybody,

        A stupid question from a marbling novice:
        Why do you alum when you use methyl cellulose and acrylics???

        I have been marbling on and off for a couple of years, paper only, though
        (and the occasional piece of wood), first with oil colour and methyl, the
        last year or so with acrylics and methyl, and I have never ever alumed my
        papers. Colour never bleeds or washes off. I have put my papers through
        some pretty rough tests to check.
        Always assumed aluming was a carragheanan thing (although I never
        understood why the base would matter so much in that particular respect).

        maria vernersson

        Marbling@yahoogroups.com writes:
        >Hi Edwa, After ALOT of trial and error (an yes I ,m the babe in the woods
        >here for time marbling) I REALLY like Dr phil martins
        >spectrolites,alittle expensive,but I get GREAT results. I use these
        >paints on methol. Remember to wash your peices first,before aluming.The
        >sythopol is what I use. happy trails gretchen
        >Dr Zayus <greatgrapefruit@...> wrote:Hi Iris.
        >Dharma's carrageenan is $29.95 per pound,makes about 14gallons. Dick
        >Blick has two kinds: cook and no cook, $15.95 per pound and $21.95
        >per HALF pound respectively. Not sure on the yields. Methyl cel from
        >pro chem is $10.97 per pound and yield about 14 gallons per pound.
        >When I buy several pounds the price drops to like $7.50 or so per
        >pound
        >I have a variety of Liquitex colors, an acrylic, that I have used
        >with some success after much trial and error. I'm curious to try Ph
        >Martins and/or Versatex air brush inks next.
        >The fading I've seen has mostly been on drawstring closure style
        >shoulder/backpack bags I've made where the colors seem to have
        >rubbed off after several months of use. Those were marbled with pro
        >chem water based marbling colors. I never did ask if the bags had
        >been washed in a machine or not. I realize that marbling is a suface
        >design and I'm striving to find the most colorful and lasting inks I
        >can.
        >Thanks,
        >Edwa
        >
        >
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      • irisnevins
        If the colors are adjusted right, I need no alum either with my own acrylics. BUT.....let s see what happens with all this buffered paper! I spoke to a paper
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 19, 2003
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          If the colors are adjusted right, I need no alum either with my own
          acrylics. BUT.....let's see what happens with all this buffered paper!

          I spoke to a paper Co. yesterday and they say the calcium carbonate cannot
          be washed off....it is thrown in with the paper pulp, not applied after.
          Maybe doubling up the alum could counteract this.....? Ouch......wonder
          what it will do to the paper. It deserves a try though.

          iris nevins

          Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
          >Dear everybody,

          A stupid question from a marbling novice:
          Why do you alum when you use methyl cellulose and acrylics???

          I have been marbling on and off for a couple of years, paper only, though
          (and the occasional piece of wood), first with oil colour and methyl, the
          last year or so with acrylics and methyl, and I have never ever alumed my
          papers. Colour never bleeds or washes off. I have put my papers through
          some pretty rough tests to check.
          Always assumed aluming was a carragheanan thing (although I never
          understood why the base would matter so much in that particular respect).

          maria vernersson <
        • Dr Zayus
          I marble cotton duck to make my packs and purses out of. You just need to make sure the duck is not too tight of a weave, this makes it harder/longer for the
          Message 4 of 15 , Sep 20, 2003
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            I marble cotton duck to make my packs and purses out of. You just
            need to make sure the duck is not too tight of a weave, this makes
            it harder/longer for the design to be absorbed. ---






            In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Bryant" <jsbryant@c...> wrote:
            > Hi, I've wanted to marble some canvas bags, also, but haven't
            tried yet. (I would think the bags mentioned below are canvas.)
            Any ideas for making the marbling more permanent? From some books
            that I've read, canvas is harder to marble, but not impossible.
            thanks.
            >
            > Cynthia


            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Steve Bryant
            Hi, I ve wanted to marble some canvas bags, also, but haven t tried yet. (I would think the bags mentioned below are canvas.) Any ideas for making the
            Message 5 of 15 , Sep 20, 2003
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              Hi, I've wanted to marble some canvas bags, also, but haven't tried yet. (I would think the bags mentioned below are canvas.) Any ideas for making the marbling more permanent? From some books that I've read, canvas is harder to marble, but not impossible. thanks.

              Cynthia
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Dr Zayus
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 5:35 PM
              Subject: [Marbling] Re: Marbling Base


              Hi Iris.
              Dharma's carrageenan is $29.95 per pound,makes about 14gallons. Dick
              Blick has two kinds: cook and no cook, $15.95 per pound and $21.95
              per HALF pound respectively. Not sure on the yields. Methyl cel from
              pro chem is $10.97 per pound and yield about 14 gallons per pound.
              When I buy several pounds the price drops to like $7.50 or so per
              pound
              I have a variety of Liquitex colors, an acrylic, that I have used
              with some success after much trial and error. I'm curious to try Ph
              Martins and/or Versatex air brush inks next.
              The fading I've seen has mostly been on drawstring closure style
              shoulder/backpack bags I've made where the colors seem to have
              rubbed off after several months of use. Those were marbled with pro
              chem water based marbling colors. I never did ask if the bags had
              been washed in a machine or not. I realize that marbling is a suface
              design and I'm striving to find the most colorful and lasting inks I
              can.
              Thanks,
              Edwa


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Steve Bryant
              Oops! I believe I read these messages in the wrong order. It seems that the question of using canvas was answered by Iris. So, canvas probably works better,
              Message 6 of 15 , Sep 20, 2003
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                Oops! I believe I read these messages in the wrong order. It seems that the question of using canvas was answered by Iris. So, canvas probably works better, if not washed in a machine.

                Cynthia
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: irisnevins
                To: INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 4:45 PM
                Subject: [Marbling] Re: Marbling Base


                What does Dharma charge for carrageenan?

                RE; colors washing off,,,,try acrylics, I have never had any color fading
                over nearly two decades of making silk scarves, if washed by soaking in
                something like Woolite or even Ivory liquid and water. If you scrub or
                throw into washing machine the colors could fade. After all this is a
                surface design, and can be scrubbed off with harsh washing methods.
                Iris Nevins

                Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                >
                Thanks to those that replied to my questions about carrageenan in
                bulk and dyes that are washable.

                I've been using Dharma Trading (thanks Gretchen)to buy blank silks
                and find them a great resource for a variety of supplies and ideas,
                but their price for carrageenan seems high compared to the price for
                methyl cel from pro chem. I also use pro chem for their MX fiber
                reactive dyes. Comparing the two I see quite a markup by Dharma
                (understanably) when thay sell prochem products and since I buy in
                bulk I find it less expensive to seek out the individual
                manufacturers of products and supplies.

                When I marble, I marble large pieces of fabric, usually 60 inches
                wide and up to 8 feet long. For this I create a huge "table" on my
                work space floor. I mix about 35 gallons of methyl cel at a time to
                accomodate such a large table, hence my desire to find as
                inexpensive supplier for carrageenan as possible. The ease of mixing
                such a large quantity of base using methyl cel is attractive, but
                having only used methyl cel I am curious to experiment with
                carrageenan. From all I read I'm led to believe it has better
                characteristics for fine lines and intricate patterns than methyl
                cel.

                I have been using methyl cel and pro chem marbling colors since 1989
                with no real complaints other than the fact that fabric marbled
                using these colors doesn't wash well. That makes me curious about
                airbrush inks and how washable they are. I've sewn several styles of
                purses and backpack like bags out of fabric I've marbled and sold or
                given them to friends After a while they all seem to fade as the
                color wears off. Neckties tend to rub off color of shirt collars.
                This make me wonder (hhumler) if I am "missing out" on something
                too. Dharma sells a variety of these dyes it says marblers "love"
                them. Any comments fellow marblers?

                Anywho just wondering still if anyone knows of a supplier less
                expensive for carrageenan than Dharma?

                Edwa





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