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Re: [Marbling] Marbling Base

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  • gretchen vansant
    Yeah know I never thought of pro-chemical,geeeze I bought my dyes though them in the 70,s but marbling products great...and good prices I see too!...Hey can
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 15 12:18 AM
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      Yeah know I never thought of pro-chemical,geeeze I bought my dyes though them in the 70,s but marbling products great...and good prices I see too!...Hey can any one tell me...I,ve never used an"extender" how does it work? I,ll use oxgall occasionally for better spread in an old or thick color,but is an extender different? And what "luminescent" paint works for anyone? (using methol) Thanks Gretchen

      Dr Zayus <greatgrapefruit@...> wrote: Hi everyone. My name is Edwa and I've been lurking in this group for
      a while. I've been marbling on pro chem's methyl but I want to try
      carrageen. Where can I find some at a decent price? I'm also
      looking for dyes to use on fabric (cotton and silk mostly) thatwill
      be more permanat than what pro chen offers - any suggestions?
      Thanks any happy marbling!


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    • Dr Zayus
      Thanks to those that replied to my questions about carrageenan in bulk and dyes that are washable. I ve been using Dharma Trading (thanks Gretchen)to buy blank
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 18 12:56 PM
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        Thanks to those that replied to my questions about carrageenan in
        bulk and dyes that are washable.

        I've been using Dharma Trading (thanks Gretchen)to buy blank silks
        and find them a great resource for a variety of supplies and ideas,
        but their price for carrageenan seems high compared to the price for
        methyl cel from pro chem. I also use pro chem for their MX fiber
        reactive dyes. Comparing the two I see quite a markup by Dharma
        (understanably) when thay sell prochem products and since I buy in
        bulk I find it less expensive to seek out the individual
        manufacturers of products and supplies.

        When I marble, I marble large pieces of fabric, usually 60 inches
        wide and up to 8 feet long. For this I create a huge "table" on my
        work space floor. I mix about 35 gallons of methyl cel at a time to
        accomodate such a large table, hence my desire to find as
        inexpensive supplier for carrageenan as possible. The ease of mixing
        such a large quantity of base using methyl cel is attractive, but
        having only used methyl cel I am curious to experiment with
        carrageenan. From all I read I'm led to believe it has better
        characteristics for fine lines and intricate patterns than methyl
        cel.

        I have been using methyl cel and pro chem marbling colors since 1989
        with no real complaints other than the fact that fabric marbled
        using these colors doesn't wash well. That makes me curious about
        airbrush inks and how washable they are. I've sewn several styles of
        purses and backpack like bags out of fabric I've marbled and sold or
        given them to friends After a while they all seem to fade as the
        color wears off. Neckties tend to rub off color of shirt collars.
        This make me wonder (hhumler) if I am "missing out" on something
        too. Dharma sells a variety of these dyes it says marblers "love"
        them. Any comments fellow marblers?

        Anywho just wondering still if anyone knows of a supplier less
        expensive for carrageenan than Dharma?

        Edwa
      • irisnevins
        What does Dharma charge for carrageenan? RE; colors washing off,,,,try acrylics, I have never had any color fading over nearly two decades of making silk
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 18 4:45 PM
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          What does Dharma charge for carrageenan?

          RE; colors washing off,,,,try acrylics, I have never had any color fading
          over nearly two decades of making silk scarves, if washed by soaking in
          something like Woolite or even Ivory liquid and water. If you scrub or
          throw into washing machine the colors could fade. After all this is a
          surface design, and can be scrubbed off with harsh washing methods.
          Iris Nevins

          Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
          >
          Thanks to those that replied to my questions about carrageenan in
          bulk and dyes that are washable.

          I've been using Dharma Trading (thanks Gretchen)to buy blank silks
          and find them a great resource for a variety of supplies and ideas,
          but their price for carrageenan seems high compared to the price for
          methyl cel from pro chem. I also use pro chem for their MX fiber
          reactive dyes. Comparing the two I see quite a markup by Dharma
          (understanably) when thay sell prochem products and since I buy in
          bulk I find it less expensive to seek out the individual
          manufacturers of products and supplies.

          When I marble, I marble large pieces of fabric, usually 60 inches
          wide and up to 8 feet long. For this I create a huge "table" on my
          work space floor. I mix about 35 gallons of methyl cel at a time to
          accomodate such a large table, hence my desire to find as
          inexpensive supplier for carrageenan as possible. The ease of mixing
          such a large quantity of base using methyl cel is attractive, but
          having only used methyl cel I am curious to experiment with
          carrageenan. From all I read I'm led to believe it has better
          characteristics for fine lines and intricate patterns than methyl
          cel.

          I have been using methyl cel and pro chem marbling colors since 1989
          with no real complaints other than the fact that fabric marbled
          using these colors doesn't wash well. That makes me curious about
          airbrush inks and how washable they are. I've sewn several styles of
          purses and backpack like bags out of fabric I've marbled and sold or
          given them to friends After a while they all seem to fade as the
          color wears off. Neckties tend to rub off color of shirt collars.
          This make me wonder (hhumler) if I am "missing out" on something
          too. Dharma sells a variety of these dyes it says marblers "love"
          them. Any comments fellow marblers?

          Anywho just wondering still if anyone knows of a supplier less
          expensive for carrageenan than Dharma?

          Edwa





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          Subject: [Marbling] Re: Marbling Base
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        • Dr Zayus
          Hi Iris. Dharma s carrageenan is $29.95 per pound,makes about 14gallons. Dick Blick has two kinds: cook and no cook, $15.95 per pound and $21.95 per HALF pound
          Message 4 of 15 , Sep 18 5:35 PM
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            Hi Iris.
            Dharma's carrageenan is $29.95 per pound,makes about 14gallons. Dick
            Blick has two kinds: cook and no cook, $15.95 per pound and $21.95
            per HALF pound respectively. Not sure on the yields. Methyl cel from
            pro chem is $10.97 per pound and yield about 14 gallons per pound.
            When I buy several pounds the price drops to like $7.50 or so per
            pound
            I have a variety of Liquitex colors, an acrylic, that I have used
            with some success after much trial and error. I'm curious to try Ph
            Martins and/or Versatex air brush inks next.
            The fading I've seen has mostly been on drawstring closure style
            shoulder/backpack bags I've made where the colors seem to have
            rubbed off after several months of use. Those were marbled with pro
            chem water based marbling colors. I never did ask if the bags had
            been washed in a machine or not. I realize that marbling is a suface
            design and I'm striving to find the most colorful and lasting inks I
            can.
            Thanks,
            Edwa
          • irisnevins
            Hmmm....I charge $24 (plus shipping)per pound currently, blender type, certainly to not make too much on it, but try to keep it moderately low priced. Anyway,
            Message 5 of 15 , Sep 18 6:13 PM
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              Hmmm....I charge $24 (plus shipping)per pound currently, blender type,
              certainly to not make too much on it, but try to keep it moderately low
              priced.

              Anyway, don't mean this as a sales pitch, you can find more current info at
              my site.
              marblingpaper.com

              IrisNevins


              Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
              >Hi Iris.
              Dharma's carrageenan is $29.95 per pound,makes about 14gallons. Dick
              Blick has two kinds: cook and no cook, $15.95 per pound and $21.95
              per HALF pound respectively. Not sure on the yields. Methyl cel from
              pro chem is $10.97 per pound and yield about 14 gallons per pound.
              When I buy several pounds the price drops to like $7.50 or so per
              pound
              I have a variety of Liquitex colors, an acrylic, that I have used
              with some success after much trial and error. I'm curious to try Ph
              Martins and/or Versatex air brush inks next.
              The fading I've seen has mostly been on drawstring closure style
              shoulder/backpack bags I've made where the colors seem to have
              rubbed off after several months of use. Those were marbled with pro
              chem water based marbling colors. I never did ask if the bags had
              been washed in a machine or not. I realize that marbling is a suface
              design and I'm striving to find the most colorful and lasting inks I
              can.
              Thanks,
              Edwa<
            • gretchen vansant
              Hi Edwa, After ALOT of trial and error (an yes I ,m the babe in the woods here for time marbling) I REALLY like Dr phil martins spectrolites,alittle
              Message 6 of 15 , Sep 18 9:15 PM
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                Hi Edwa, After ALOT of trial and error (an yes I ,m the babe in the woods here for time marbling) I REALLY like Dr phil martins spectrolites,alittle expensive,but I get GREAT results. I use these paints on methol. Remember to wash your peices first,before aluming.The sythopol is what I use. happy trails gretchen
                Dr Zayus <greatgrapefruit@...> wrote:Hi Iris.
                Dharma's carrageenan is $29.95 per pound,makes about 14gallons. Dick
                Blick has two kinds: cook and no cook, $15.95 per pound and $21.95
                per HALF pound respectively. Not sure on the yields. Methyl cel from
                pro chem is $10.97 per pound and yield about 14 gallons per pound.
                When I buy several pounds the price drops to like $7.50 or so per
                pound
                I have a variety of Liquitex colors, an acrylic, that I have used
                with some success after much trial and error. I'm curious to try Ph
                Martins and/or Versatex air brush inks next.
                The fading I've seen has mostly been on drawstring closure style
                shoulder/backpack bags I've made where the colors seem to have
                rubbed off after several months of use. Those were marbled with pro
                chem water based marbling colors. I never did ask if the bags had
                been washed in a machine or not. I realize that marbling is a suface
                design and I'm striving to find the most colorful and lasting inks I
                can.
                Thanks,
                Edwa


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              • gretchen vansant
                Great note Edwa, and your welcome, YOUR VAT IS HUGE!....LOL I,ve got accouple hints....If your water is fairly good out of tap....use it ,I used distilled
                Message 7 of 15 , Sep 18 9:22 PM
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                  Great note Edwa, and your welcome, YOUR VAT IS HUGE!....LOL I,ve got accouple hints....If your water is fairly good out of tap....use it ,I used distilled untill recently and well I get fine results with tap water. I get great deals from "Exotic Silks "(regarding fabric) in ca(they have a site) thats if you have a resale licence,or not? Good Luck

                  Dr Zayus <greatgrapefruit@...> wrote:Thanks to those that replied to my questions about carrageenan in
                  bulk and dyes that are washable.

                  I've been using Dharma Trading (thanks Gretchen)to buy blank silks
                  and find them a great resource for a variety of supplies and ideas,
                  but their price for carrageenan seems high compared to the price for
                  methyl cel from pro chem. I also use pro chem for their MX fiber
                  reactive dyes. Comparing the two I see quite a markup by Dharma
                  (understanably) when thay sell prochem products and since I buy in
                  bulk I find it less expensive to seek out the individual
                  manufacturers of products and supplies.

                  When I marble, I marble large pieces of fabric, usually 60 inches
                  wide and up to 8 feet long. For this I create a huge "table" on my
                  work space floor. I mix about 35 gallons of methyl cel at a time to
                  accomodate such a large table, hence my desire to find as
                  inexpensive supplier for carrageenan as possible. The ease of mixing
                  such a large quantity of base using methyl cel is attractive, but
                  having only used methyl cel I am curious to experiment with
                  carrageenan. From all I read I'm led to believe it has better
                  characteristics for fine lines and intricate patterns than methyl
                  cel.

                  I have been using methyl cel and pro chem marbling colors since 1989
                  with no real complaints other than the fact that fabric marbled
                  using these colors doesn't wash well. That makes me curious about
                  airbrush inks and how washable they are. I've sewn several styles of
                  purses and backpack like bags out of fabric I've marbled and sold or
                  given them to friends After a while they all seem to fade as the
                  color wears off. Neckties tend to rub off color of shirt collars.
                  This make me wonder (hhumler) if I am "missing out" on something
                  too. Dharma sells a variety of these dyes it says marblers "love"
                  them. Any comments fellow marblers?

                  Anywho just wondering still if anyone knows of a supplier less
                  expensive for carrageenan than Dharma?

                  Edwa


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                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



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                • Maria Vernersson
                  Dear everybody, A stupid question from a marbling novice: Why do you alum when you use methyl cellulose and acrylics??? I have been marbling on and off for a
                  Message 8 of 15 , Sep 19 12:09 AM
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                    Dear everybody,

                    A stupid question from a marbling novice:
                    Why do you alum when you use methyl cellulose and acrylics???

                    I have been marbling on and off for a couple of years, paper only, though
                    (and the occasional piece of wood), first with oil colour and methyl, the
                    last year or so with acrylics and methyl, and I have never ever alumed my
                    papers. Colour never bleeds or washes off. I have put my papers through
                    some pretty rough tests to check.
                    Always assumed aluming was a carragheanan thing (although I never
                    understood why the base would matter so much in that particular respect).

                    maria vernersson

                    Marbling@yahoogroups.com writes:
                    >Hi Edwa, After ALOT of trial and error (an yes I ,m the babe in the woods
                    >here for time marbling) I REALLY like Dr phil martins
                    >spectrolites,alittle expensive,but I get GREAT results. I use these
                    >paints on methol. Remember to wash your peices first,before aluming.The
                    >sythopol is what I use. happy trails gretchen
                    >Dr Zayus <greatgrapefruit@...> wrote:Hi Iris.
                    >Dharma's carrageenan is $29.95 per pound,makes about 14gallons. Dick
                    >Blick has two kinds: cook and no cook, $15.95 per pound and $21.95
                    >per HALF pound respectively. Not sure on the yields. Methyl cel from
                    >pro chem is $10.97 per pound and yield about 14 gallons per pound.
                    >When I buy several pounds the price drops to like $7.50 or so per
                    >pound
                    >I have a variety of Liquitex colors, an acrylic, that I have used
                    >with some success after much trial and error. I'm curious to try Ph
                    >Martins and/or Versatex air brush inks next.
                    >The fading I've seen has mostly been on drawstring closure style
                    >shoulder/backpack bags I've made where the colors seem to have
                    >rubbed off after several months of use. Those were marbled with pro
                    >chem water based marbling colors. I never did ask if the bags had
                    >been washed in a machine or not. I realize that marbling is a suface
                    >design and I'm striving to find the most colorful and lasting inks I
                    >can.
                    >Thanks,
                    >Edwa
                    >
                    >
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                  • irisnevins
                    If the colors are adjusted right, I need no alum either with my own acrylics. BUT.....let s see what happens with all this buffered paper! I spoke to a paper
                    Message 9 of 15 , Sep 19 5:08 AM
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                      If the colors are adjusted right, I need no alum either with my own
                      acrylics. BUT.....let's see what happens with all this buffered paper!

                      I spoke to a paper Co. yesterday and they say the calcium carbonate cannot
                      be washed off....it is thrown in with the paper pulp, not applied after.
                      Maybe doubling up the alum could counteract this.....? Ouch......wonder
                      what it will do to the paper. It deserves a try though.

                      iris nevins

                      Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                      >Dear everybody,

                      A stupid question from a marbling novice:
                      Why do you alum when you use methyl cellulose and acrylics???

                      I have been marbling on and off for a couple of years, paper only, though
                      (and the occasional piece of wood), first with oil colour and methyl, the
                      last year or so with acrylics and methyl, and I have never ever alumed my
                      papers. Colour never bleeds or washes off. I have put my papers through
                      some pretty rough tests to check.
                      Always assumed aluming was a carragheanan thing (although I never
                      understood why the base would matter so much in that particular respect).

                      maria vernersson <
                    • Dr Zayus
                      I marble cotton duck to make my packs and purses out of. You just need to make sure the duck is not too tight of a weave, this makes it harder/longer for the
                      Message 10 of 15 , Sep 20 12:53 PM
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                        I marble cotton duck to make my packs and purses out of. You just
                        need to make sure the duck is not too tight of a weave, this makes
                        it harder/longer for the design to be absorbed. ---






                        In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Bryant" <jsbryant@c...> wrote:
                        > Hi, I've wanted to marble some canvas bags, also, but haven't
                        tried yet. (I would think the bags mentioned below are canvas.)
                        Any ideas for making the marbling more permanent? From some books
                        that I've read, canvas is harder to marble, but not impossible.
                        thanks.
                        >
                        > Cynthia


                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Steve Bryant
                        Hi, I ve wanted to marble some canvas bags, also, but haven t tried yet. (I would think the bags mentioned below are canvas.) Any ideas for making the
                        Message 11 of 15 , Sep 20 1:08 PM
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                          Hi, I've wanted to marble some canvas bags, also, but haven't tried yet. (I would think the bags mentioned below are canvas.) Any ideas for making the marbling more permanent? From some books that I've read, canvas is harder to marble, but not impossible. thanks.

                          Cynthia
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Dr Zayus
                          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 5:35 PM
                          Subject: [Marbling] Re: Marbling Base


                          Hi Iris.
                          Dharma's carrageenan is $29.95 per pound,makes about 14gallons. Dick
                          Blick has two kinds: cook and no cook, $15.95 per pound and $21.95
                          per HALF pound respectively. Not sure on the yields. Methyl cel from
                          pro chem is $10.97 per pound and yield about 14 gallons per pound.
                          When I buy several pounds the price drops to like $7.50 or so per
                          pound
                          I have a variety of Liquitex colors, an acrylic, that I have used
                          with some success after much trial and error. I'm curious to try Ph
                          Martins and/or Versatex air brush inks next.
                          The fading I've seen has mostly been on drawstring closure style
                          shoulder/backpack bags I've made where the colors seem to have
                          rubbed off after several months of use. Those were marbled with pro
                          chem water based marbling colors. I never did ask if the bags had
                          been washed in a machine or not. I realize that marbling is a suface
                          design and I'm striving to find the most colorful and lasting inks I
                          can.
                          Thanks,
                          Edwa


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                          ADVERTISEMENT




                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Steve Bryant
                          Oops! I believe I read these messages in the wrong order. It seems that the question of using canvas was answered by Iris. So, canvas probably works better,
                          Message 12 of 15 , Sep 20 1:10 PM
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                            Oops! I believe I read these messages in the wrong order. It seems that the question of using canvas was answered by Iris. So, canvas probably works better, if not washed in a machine.

                            Cynthia
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: irisnevins
                            To: INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 4:45 PM
                            Subject: [Marbling] Re: Marbling Base


                            What does Dharma charge for carrageenan?

                            RE; colors washing off,,,,try acrylics, I have never had any color fading
                            over nearly two decades of making silk scarves, if washed by soaking in
                            something like Woolite or even Ivory liquid and water. If you scrub or
                            throw into washing machine the colors could fade. After all this is a
                            surface design, and can be scrubbed off with harsh washing methods.
                            Iris Nevins

                            Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            Thanks to those that replied to my questions about carrageenan in
                            bulk and dyes that are washable.

                            I've been using Dharma Trading (thanks Gretchen)to buy blank silks
                            and find them a great resource for a variety of supplies and ideas,
                            but their price for carrageenan seems high compared to the price for
                            methyl cel from pro chem. I also use pro chem for their MX fiber
                            reactive dyes. Comparing the two I see quite a markup by Dharma
                            (understanably) when thay sell prochem products and since I buy in
                            bulk I find it less expensive to seek out the individual
                            manufacturers of products and supplies.

                            When I marble, I marble large pieces of fabric, usually 60 inches
                            wide and up to 8 feet long. For this I create a huge "table" on my
                            work space floor. I mix about 35 gallons of methyl cel at a time to
                            accomodate such a large table, hence my desire to find as
                            inexpensive supplier for carrageenan as possible. The ease of mixing
                            such a large quantity of base using methyl cel is attractive, but
                            having only used methyl cel I am curious to experiment with
                            carrageenan. From all I read I'm led to believe it has better
                            characteristics for fine lines and intricate patterns than methyl
                            cel.

                            I have been using methyl cel and pro chem marbling colors since 1989
                            with no real complaints other than the fact that fabric marbled
                            using these colors doesn't wash well. That makes me curious about
                            airbrush inks and how washable they are. I've sewn several styles of
                            purses and backpack like bags out of fabric I've marbled and sold or
                            given them to friends After a while they all seem to fade as the
                            color wears off. Neckties tend to rub off color of shirt collars.
                            This make me wonder (hhumler) if I am "missing out" on something
                            too. Dharma sells a variety of these dyes it says marblers "love"
                            them. Any comments fellow marblers?

                            Anywho just wondering still if anyone knows of a supplier less
                            expensive for carrageenan than Dharma?

                            Edwa





                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





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