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Re: [Marbling] Allergies

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  • gretchen vansant
    LOL Gail! I does taste alittle like salty unsweeted lemonade! Sometimes I,ll Test the waters by alittle lick .But yes never in great amounts. Gail
    Message 1 of 29 , Sep 14, 2003
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      LOL Gail! I does taste alittle like salty unsweeted lemonade! Sometimes I,ll "Test" the waters by alittle "lick".But yes never in great amounts.

      Gail MacKenzie <gailmackenzi@...> wrote:I am glad that alum, as a hazard, came up. Ask for a safety data sheet
      from your supplier. It will tell you that alum should not be inhaled, wash
      off skin immediately and do not get it in your eyes. It is an irritant and
      1 scant teaspoon (you know it tastes like unsweetened lemon lime koolade) is
      a fatal dose for the average adult!!


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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    • irisnevins
      Wonder why they use it in pickling then? I have been tasting my papers many years, if I forgot to mark the alumed side! irisnevins Message text written by
      Message 2 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
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        Wonder why they use it in pickling then? I have been tasting my papers many
        years, if I forgot to mark the alumed side!
        irisnevins

        Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        >Gail MacKenzie <gailmackenzi@...> wrote:I am glad that alum, as a
        hazard, came up. Ask for a safety data sheet
        from your supplier. It will tell you that alum should not be inhaled, wash
        off skin immediately and do not get it in your eyes. It is an irritant and
        1 scant teaspoon (you know it tastes like unsweetened lemon lime koolade)
        is
        a fatal dose for the average adult!!
        <
      • sixshort
        -Thanks for all the replies re chemical hazards of handling paints, alum, solvents etc. I take the utmost care, always rub lanolin or barrier cream into my
        Message 3 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
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          -Thanks for all the replies re chemical hazards of handling paints,
          alum, solvents etc. I take the utmost care, always rub lanolin or
          barrier cream into my hands, wear dispoable latex gloves, take care
          not to inhale any powdered paints or alum etc. so will have to do
          some sleuth work to find out just what is causing the sneezing when I
          start working with the paints, opening jars and so on. Perhaps
          supermarket disposable gloves are not resistant to
          chemicals . . . . .
          I think that newcomers to marbling should be made aware of the
          potentially dangerous chemicals they will be using, and trained in
          the routine use of safety measures. Many of us have come to marbling
          with no previous training in such things, and only a hazy
          recollection of chemistry lessons at school. After a couple of years
          of marbling it finally dawned on me that I should take safety
          precautions seriously!-- Joan Ajala
          In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
          > Wonder why they use it in pickling then? I have been tasting my
          papers many
          > years, if I forgot to mark the alumed side!
          > irisnevins
          >
          > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
          > >Gail MacKenzie <gailmackenzi@s...> wrote:I am glad that alum, as a
          > hazard, came up. Ask for a safety data sheet
          > from your supplier. It will tell you that alum should not be
          inhaled, wash
          > off skin immediately and do not get it in your eyes. It is an
          irritant and
          > 1 scant teaspoon (you know it tastes like unsweetened lemon lime
          koolade)
          > is
          > a fatal dose for the average adult!!
          > <
        • marblehead@iwon.com
          Aluminum in any form is a suspected cause of dementia/Alzheimers. This hasn t yet been proven, but it s something to think about when handling alum. ae ...
          Message 4 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
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            Aluminum in any form is a suspected cause of dementia/Alzheimers. This hasn't yet been proven, but it's something to think about when handling alum.

            ae



            --- On Mon 09/15, sixshort < sixshort@... > wrote:
            From: sixshort [mailto: sixshort@...]
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:29:37 -0000
            Subject: [Marbling] Re: Allergies

            <html><body>


            <tt>
            -Thanks for all the replies re chemical hazards of handling paints, <BR>
            alum, solvents etc. I take the utmost care, always rub lanolin or <BR>
            barrier cream into my hands, wear dispoable latex gloves, take care <BR>
            not to inhale any powdered paints or alum etc. so will have to do <BR>
            some sleuth work to find out just what is causing the sneezing when I <BR>
            start working with the paints, opening jars and so on.� Perhaps <BR>
            supermarket disposable gloves are not resistant to <BR>
            chemicals . . . . . <BR>
            I think that newcomers to marbling should be made aware of the <BR>
            potentially dangerous chemicals they will be using, and trained in <BR>
            the routine use of safety measures.� Many of us have come to marbling <BR>
            with no previous training in such things, and only a hazy <BR>
            recollection of chemistry lessons at school.� After a couple of years <BR>
            of marbling it finally dawned on me that I should take safety <BR>
            precautions seriously!--�� Joan Ajala������������������������������ <BR>
            In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:<BR>
            > Wonder why they use it in pickling then? I have been tasting my <BR>
            papers many<BR>
            > years, if I forgot to mark the alumed side!<BR>
            > irisnevins<BR>
            > <BR>
            > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<BR>
            > >Gail MacKenzie <gailmackenzi@s...> wrote:I am glad� that alum, as a<BR>
            > hazard, came up.� Ask for a safety data sheet<BR>
            > from your supplier.� It will tell you that alum should not be <BR>
            inhaled, wash<BR>
            > off skin immediately and do not get it in your eyes.� It is an <BR>
            irritant and<BR>
            > 1 scant teaspoon (you know it tastes like unsweetened lemon lime <BR>
            koolade)<BR>
            > is<BR>
            > a fatal dose for the average adult!! <BR>
            > <<BR>
            <BR>
            </tt>

            <br>

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          • gretchen vansant
            wrote: Aluminum in any form is a suspected cause of dementia/Alzheimers. This hasn t yet been proven, but it s something to think about
            Message 5 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
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              <marblehead@...> wrote:

              Aluminum in any form is a suspected cause of dementia/Alzheimers. This hasn't yet been proven, but it's something to think about when handling alum.

              ae



              --- On Mon 09/15, sixshort < sixshort@... > wrote:
              From: sixshort [mailto: sixshort@...]
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:29:37 -0000
              Subject: [Marbling] Re: Allergies





              -Thanks for all the replies re chemical hazards of handling paints,

              alum, solvents etc. I take the utmost care, always rub lanolin or

              barrier cream into my hands, wear dispoable latex gloves, take care

              not to inhale any powdered paints or alum etc. so will have to do

              some sleuth work to find out just what is causing the sneezing when I

              start working with the paints, opening jars and so on. Perhaps

              supermarket disposable gloves are not resistant to

              chemicals . . . . .

              I think that newcomers to marbling should be made aware of the

              potentially dangerous chemicals they will be using, and trained in

              the routine use of safety measures. Many of us have come to marbling

              with no previous training in such things, and only a hazy

              recollection of chemistry lessons at school. After a couple of years

              of marbling it finally dawned on me that I should take safety

              precautions seriously!-- Joan Ajala

              In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins wrote:

              > Wonder why they use it in pickling then? I have been tasting my

              papers many

              > years, if I forgot to mark the alumed side!

              > irisnevins

              >

              > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com

              > >Gail MacKenzie wrote:I am glad that alum, as a

              > hazard, came up. Ask for a safety data sheet

              > from your supplier. It will tell you that alum should not be

              inhaled, wash

              > off skin immediately and do not get it in your eyes. It is an

              irritant and

              > 1 scant teaspoon (you know it tastes like unsweetened lemon lime

              koolade)

              > is

              > a fatal dose for the average adult!!

              > <












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            • IrisNevins
              Oh it s been extremely minor...only when I forgot to mark the back which is almost never! I was tested last year extensively with blood...they say better than
              Message 6 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
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                Oh it's been extremely minor...only when I forgot to mark the back which is
                almost never! I was tested last year extensively with blood...they say
                better than hair now. Am OK....surprisingly! DeTox programs.....i can't
                handle due to hypoglycemia. I have tried and black. I drink tons of water
                these days though which is supposedly the cure for many ills.
                thank ye,
                Iris Nevins

                Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                >Iris...years of alum tasting is something to think about. After all,
                there
                is that connection between aluminum and dementia. You might want to have a
                test for mineral content. I know a little about testing hair. I also
                know
                that every year I go for a week long thorough detoxing at the Optimum
                Health Institute in San Diego and by the third day my mouth tastes like I
                have an aluminum spoon in it!! It takes 2-3 days to go away. Gail <
              • Gail MacKenzie
                Iris...years of alum tasting is something to think about. After all, there is that connection between aluminum and dementia. You might want to have a test for
                Message 7 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
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                  Iris...years of alum tasting is something to think about. After all, there
                  is that connection between aluminum and dementia. You might want to have a
                  test for mineral content. I know a little about testing hair. I also know
                  that every year I go for a week long thorough detoxing at the Optimum
                  Health Institute in San Diego and by the third day my mouth tastes like I
                  have an aluminum spoon in it!! It takes 2-3 days to go away. Gail


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Susa Glenn
                  Hi Iris, If you want to see if you are carrying a load of aluminum from slurping on your alumed paper, you need to be tested for heavy metal toxicity with an
                  Message 8 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
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                    Hi Iris,
                    If you want to see if you are carrying a load of aluminum from
                    slurping on your alumed paper, you need to be tested for heavy metal
                    toxicity with an IV chelation treatment followed by saving all of
                    your urine for (I've forgotten...aluminum load was heavy...dementia
                    is imminent...) maybe 6 hours and then handing the jug back to the
                    doctor so they can send some off to be analized. The chelation IV
                    takes, oh, 3-4 hours. They did a hair analysis on me too, but the
                    doctor trusted the above urine test more as the aluminum is a heavy
                    metal and is firmly linked to your cells until set free by the
                    chelating agent, EDTA. Because it is chemically linked to your
                    cells, it isn't just floating around loose in your blood so it is
                    hard to test for with a simple blood test. I had aluminum pretty
                    bad, along with lead, cadmium, and arsenic. I also tested as hyper-
                    sensitive to aluminum (sorta like an allergy).

                    Anyway.... If you are sneezing, it means that you are getting minute
                    particles of alum in you and your body really doesn't want any more,
                    thanks anyway. Breathing it into your lungs is a MUCH more efficient
                    way of getting a toxic load into your body than daubing it onto your
                    skin. I'm not real sure where it ranks with slurping it off of paper
                    though.

                    Susa Glenn

                    --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, IrisNevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
                    > Oh it's been extremely minor...only when I forgot to mark the back
                    which is
                    > almost never! I was tested last year extensively with blood...they
                    say
                    > better than hair now. Am OK....surprisingly! DeTox programs.....i
                    can't
                    > handle due to hypoglycemia. I have tried and black. I drink tons
                    of water
                    > these days though which is supposedly the cure for many ills.
                    > thank ye,
                    > Iris Nevins
                    >
                    > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                    > >Iris...years of alum tasting is something to think about. After
                    all,
                    > there
                    > is that connection between aluminum and dementia. You might want
                    to have a
                    > test for mineral content. I know a little about testing hair. I
                    also
                    > know
                    > that every year I go for a week long thorough detoxing at the
                    Optimum
                    > Health Institute in San Diego and by the third day my mouth tastes
                    like I
                    > have an aluminum spoon in it!! It takes 2-3 days to go away. Gail <
                  • M. Gilbert
                    Quick question from a newbie... any chance wearing one of those paper face masks would help prevent inhalation, or are the particles too small? This is sorta
                    Message 9 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
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                      Quick question from a newbie... any chance wearing one of those paper face
                      masks would help prevent inhalation, or are the particles too small? This
                      is sorta scary.

                      - Michelle Gilbert
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Susa Glenn [mailto:sglenn@...]
                      Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:57 PM
                      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [Marbling] Re: Allergies


                      Hi Iris,
                      If you want to see if you are carrying a load of aluminum from
                      slurping on your alumed paper, you need to be tested for heavy metal
                      toxicity with an IV chelation treatment followed by saving all of
                      your urine for (I've forgotten...aluminum load was heavy...dementia
                      is imminent...) maybe 6 hours and then handing the jug back to the
                      doctor so they can send some off to be analized. The chelation IV
                      takes, oh, 3-4 hours. They did a hair analysis on me too, but the
                      doctor trusted the above urine test more as the aluminum is a heavy
                      metal and is firmly linked to your cells until set free by the
                      chelating agent, EDTA. Because it is chemically linked to your
                      cells, it isn't just floating around loose in your blood so it is
                      hard to test for with a simple blood test. I had aluminum pretty
                      bad, along with lead, cadmium, and arsenic. I also tested as hyper-
                      sensitive to aluminum (sorta like an allergy).

                      Anyway.... If you are sneezing, it means that you are getting minute
                      particles of alum in you and your body really doesn't want any more,
                      thanks anyway. Breathing it into your lungs is a MUCH more efficient
                      way of getting a toxic load into your body than daubing it onto your
                      skin. I'm not real sure where it ranks with slurping it off of paper
                      though.

                      Susa Glenn

                      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, IrisNevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
                      > Oh it's been extremely minor...only when I forgot to mark the back
                      which is
                      > almost never! I was tested last year extensively with blood...they
                      say
                      > better than hair now. Am OK....surprisingly! DeTox programs.....i
                      can't
                      > handle due to hypoglycemia. I have tried and black. I drink tons
                      of water
                      > these days though which is supposedly the cure for many ills.
                      > thank ye,
                      > Iris Nevins
                      >
                      > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                      > >Iris...years of alum tasting is something to think about. After
                      all,
                      > there
                      > is that connection between aluminum and dementia. You might want
                      to have a
                      > test for mineral content. I know a little about testing hair. I
                      also
                      > know
                      > that every year I go for a week long thorough detoxing at the
                      Optimum
                      > Health Institute in San Diego and by the third day my mouth tastes
                      like I
                      > have an aluminum spoon in it!! It takes 2-3 days to go away. Gail <


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                    • J Dolphin
                      You need the right mask for the right job.........hence--check with your local hardware companies for what they offer for various work. ...........Alum here
                      Message 10 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
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                        You need the right mask for the right job.........hence--check with your
                        local hardware companies for what they offer for various work.
                        ...........Alum here for marblers will be in two different states--the
                        first--where it is powder and you are pouring the crystals. The
                        second--where it is liquid once mixed with water......Would an ordinary
                        surgical paper mask work? I don't know.
                        Jill
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "M. Gilbert" <michelle.gilbert@...>
                        To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 5:01 PM
                        Subject: RE: [Marbling] Re: Allergies


                        > Quick question from a newbie... any chance wearing one of those paper face
                        > masks would help prevent inhalation, or are the particles too small? This
                        > is sorta scary.
                        >
                        > - Michelle Gilbert
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Susa Glenn [mailto:sglenn@...]
                        > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:57 PM
                        > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Allergies
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi Iris,
                        > If you want to see if you are carrying a load of aluminum from
                        > slurping on your alumed paper, you need to be tested for heavy metal
                        > toxicity with an IV chelation treatment followed by saving all of
                        > your urine for (I've forgotten...aluminum load was heavy...dementia
                        > is imminent...) maybe 6 hours and then handing the jug back to the
                        > doctor so they can send some off to be analized. The chelation IV
                        > takes, oh, 3-4 hours. They did a hair analysis on me too, but the
                        > doctor trusted the above urine test more as the aluminum is a heavy
                        > metal and is firmly linked to your cells until set free by the
                        > chelating agent, EDTA. Because it is chemically linked to your
                        > cells, it isn't just floating around loose in your blood so it is
                        > hard to test for with a simple blood test. I had aluminum pretty
                        > bad, along with lead, cadmium, and arsenic. I also tested as hyper-
                        > sensitive to aluminum (sorta like an allergy).
                        >
                        > Anyway.... If you are sneezing, it means that you are getting minute
                        > particles of alum in you and your body really doesn't want any more,
                        > thanks anyway. Breathing it into your lungs is a MUCH more efficient
                        > way of getting a toxic load into your body than daubing it onto your
                        > skin. I'm not real sure where it ranks with slurping it off of paper
                        > though.
                        >
                        > Susa Glenn
                        >
                        > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, IrisNevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
                        > > Oh it's been extremely minor...only when I forgot to mark the back
                        > which is
                        > > almost never! I was tested last year extensively with blood...they
                        > say
                        > > better than hair now. Am OK....surprisingly! DeTox programs.....i
                        > can't
                        > > handle due to hypoglycemia. I have tried and black. I drink tons
                        > of water
                        > > these days though which is supposedly the cure for many ills.
                        > > thank ye,
                        > > Iris Nevins
                        > >
                        > > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                        > > >Iris...years of alum tasting is something to think about. After
                        > all,
                        > > there
                        > > is that connection between aluminum and dementia. You might want
                        > to have a
                        > > test for mineral content. I know a little about testing hair. I
                        > also
                        > > know
                        > > that every year I go for a week long thorough detoxing at the
                        > Optimum
                        > > Health Institute in San Diego and by the third day my mouth tastes
                        > like I
                        > > have an aluminum spoon in it!! It takes 2-3 days to go away. Gail <
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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                        >
                      • Gail MacKenzie
                        Thanks Susan...your message to Iris was very informative. Gail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Message 11 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
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                          Thanks Susan...your message to Iris was very informative. Gail


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • irisnevins
                          I can t imagine alum in solution...liquid....would require a mask. If I have to alum in a mask I think i d rather quit. I can see it when the particles of
                          Message 12 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
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                            I can't imagine alum in solution...liquid....would require a mask. If I
                            have to alum in a mask I think i'd rather quit. I can see it when the
                            particles of powder fly around, but not while liquid. Same goes for
                            pigments...not good to breathe but once in liquid paint? I couldn't imagine
                            it is a problem...and if it is, so be it. I'd rather be comfortable. I just
                            hold my breath while spooning out the alum....can't stand the sneezles! But
                            paint surely doesn't bother me. I have also decided to marble sans gloves,
                            only wear them while aluming because it makes my hands crawl.

                            Iris Nevins


                            Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            You need the right mask for the right job.........hence--check with
                            your
                            local hardware companies for what they offer for various work.
                            ...........Alum here for marblers will be in two different states--the
                            first--where it is powder and you are pouring the crystals. The
                            second--where it is liquid once mixed with water......Would an ordinary
                            surgical paper mask work? I don't know.
                            Jill<
                          • irisnevins
                            Thanks for info.....but how does one get rid of it all? These detox programs nearly kill me. I know apple pectin carries lead out....maybe an apple a day does
                            Message 13 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Thanks for info.....but how does one get rid of it all? These detox
                              programs nearly kill me. I know apple pectin carries lead out....maybe an
                              apple a day does keep the Dr. away?
                              irisnevins

                              Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                              >Hi Iris,
                              If you want to see if you are carrying a load of aluminum from
                              slurping on your alumed paper, you need to be tested for heavy metal
                              toxicity with an IV chelation treatment followed by saving all of
                              your urine for (I've forgotten...aluminum load was heavy...dementia
                              is imminent...) maybe 6 hours and then handing the jug back to the
                              doctor so they can send some off to be analized. The chelation IV
                              takes, oh, 3-4 hours. They did a hair analysis on me too, but the
                              doctor trusted the above urine test more as the aluminum is a heavy
                              metal and is firmly linked to your cells until set free by the
                              chelating agent, EDTA. Because it is chemically linked to your
                              cells, it isn't just floating around loose in your blood so it is
                              hard to test for with a simple blood test. I had aluminum pretty
                              bad, along with lead, cadmium, and arsenic. I also tested as hyper-
                              sensitive to aluminum (sorta like an allergy).

                              Anyway.... If you are sneezing, it means that you are getting minute
                              particles of alum in you and your body really doesn't want any more,
                              thanks anyway. Breathing it into your lungs is a MUCH more efficient
                              way of getting a toxic load into your body than daubing it onto your
                              skin. I'm not real sure where it ranks with slurping it off of paper
                              though.

                              Susa Glenn<
                            • irisnevins
                              PS...I really am not slurping alum! the once in a blue moon taste test......which by the way cannot be tasted on the danged newly buffered paper......back to
                              Message 14 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
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                                PS...I really am not slurping alum! the once in a blue moon taste
                                test......which by the way cannot be tasted on the danged newly buffered
                                paper......back to that....anyone care to mention which other papers work
                                for them? Mimi and I are going a little crazy right now.
                                I.Nevins

                                Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                >Hi Iris,
                                If you want to see if you are carrying a load of aluminum from
                                slurping on your alumed paper, you need to be tested for heavy metal
                                toxicity with an IV chelation treatment followed by saving all of
                                your urine for (I've forgotten...aluminum load was heavy...dementia
                                is imminent...) maybe 6 hours and then handing the jug back to the
                                doctor so they can send some off to be analized. The chelation IV
                                takes, oh, 3-4 hours. They did a hair analysis on me too, but the
                                doctor trusted the above urine test more as the aluminum is a heavy
                                metal and is firmly linked to your cells until set free by the
                                chelating agent, EDTA. Because it is chemically linked to your
                                cells, it isn't just floating around loose in your blood so it is
                                hard to test for with a simple blood test. I had aluminum pretty
                                bad, along with lead, cadmium, and arsenic. I also tested as hyper-
                                sensitive to aluminum (sorta like an allergy).

                                Anyway.... If you are sneezing, it means that you are getting minute
                                particles of alum in you and your body really doesn't want any more,
                                thanks anyway. Breathing it into your lungs is a MUCH more efficient
                                way of getting a toxic load into your body than daubing it onto your
                                skin. I'm not real sure where it ranks with slurping it off of paper
                                though.

                                Susa Glenn<
                              • Susa Glenn
                                I went through over 60 chelation treatments in 1994 because I got really sick (Dursban poisoning) and the doctor put me through a big time general detox
                                Message 15 of 29 , Sep 16, 2003
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                                  I went through over 60 chelation treatments in 1994 because I got
                                  really sick (Dursban poisoning) and the doctor put me through a big
                                  time general detox program to lower my overall load of toxins.
                                  Nobody knew it was Dursban at the time; I found out about 6 months
                                  later. After 9 months and all that chelation, I was much better, but
                                  the aluminum still showed up as a problem on the urinalysis because
                                  it was still coming out of my body. I just avoid aluminum now; no
                                  antiperspirant, no aluminum pans, no sodas in aluminum cans, etc.

                                  I just hold my breath when pouring in the alum crystals. My alum
                                  crystals just don't seem to be getting air born, so I really haven't
                                  been very concerned about it. I don't use a mask either, Iris. I use
                                  long gloves when I hang up my fabric to dry and I do worry about the
                                  drips getting on me. If you can actually see the stuff in the air
                                  or if you can smell it, I think that you should definitely wear a
                                  dust mask. I stir the stuff into the water at arm's length and avoid
                                  breathing any rising steam from the hot water. If you can smell it,
                                  it means that it is in your lungs and is going into your
                                  bloodstream.

                                  The detox progams are especially hard on a person if they are
                                  carrying a heavy load of toxins because the detoxing stirs them up
                                  from wherever the body has parked them and so you can become more
                                  symptomatic during the detox process. A good doctor is essential. I
                                  have a load of mercury too, but I can't handle the side effects of
                                  the detox program for that so I haven't been able to get rid of it.

                                  I never heard that apple pectin would carry lead out. EDTA works
                                  real well though.

                                  Susa Glenn

                                  --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
                                  > Thanks for info.....but how does one get rid of it all? These detox
                                  > programs nearly kill me. I know apple pectin carries lead
                                  out....maybe an
                                  > apple a day does keep the Dr. away?
                                  > irisnevins
                                  >
                                  > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                  > >Hi Iris,
                                  > If you want to see if you are carrying a load of aluminum from
                                  > slurping on your alumed paper, you need to be tested for heavy
                                  metal
                                  > toxicity with an IV chelation treatment followed by saving all of
                                  > your urine for (I've forgotten...aluminum load was
                                  heavy...dementia
                                  > is imminent...) maybe 6 hours and then handing the jug back to
                                  the
                                  > doctor so they can send some off to be analized. The chelation IV
                                  > takes, oh, 3-4 hours. They did a hair analysis on me too, but the
                                  > doctor trusted the above urine test more as the aluminum is a
                                  heavy
                                  > metal and is firmly linked to your cells until set free by the
                                  > chelating agent, EDTA. Because it is chemically linked to your
                                  > cells, it isn't just floating around loose in your blood so it is
                                  > hard to test for with a simple blood test. I had aluminum pretty
                                  > bad, along with lead, cadmium, and arsenic. I also tested as
                                  hyper-
                                  > sensitive to aluminum (sorta like an allergy).
                                  >
                                  > Anyway.... If you are sneezing, it means that you are getting
                                  minute
                                  > particles of alum in you and your body really doesn't want any
                                  more,
                                  > thanks anyway. Breathing it into your lungs is a MUCH more
                                  efficient
                                  > way of getting a toxic load into your body than daubing it onto
                                  your
                                  > skin. I'm not real sure where it ranks with slurping it off of
                                  paper
                                  > though.
                                  >
                                  > Susa Glenn<
                                • irisnevins
                                  Many years ago when I did stained glass work my teacher told us about the pectin, then I read it somewhere else too. We breathed lots of lead fumes from the
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Sep 16, 2003
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                                    Many years ago when I did stained glass work my teacher told us about the
                                    pectin, then I read it somewhere else too. We breathed lots of lead fumes
                                    from the lead caming and the solder. Now, in my other role as jeweler I use
                                    a lot of solder, polishing compounds and such. I find it utterly impossible
                                    to wear a mask while doing fine jewelry work, because the magnifying
                                    glasses I wear fog up. So I just will take my chances .....just love it too
                                    much to give it up. Never mind all the cut fingers ....open wounds with all
                                    that dirt around.....

                                    IrisNevins

                                    Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                    >
                                    I went through over 60 chelation treatments in 1994 because I got
                                    really sick (Dursban poisoning) and the doctor put me through a big
                                    time general detox program to lower my overall load of toxins.
                                    Nobody knew it was Dursban at the time; I found out about 6 months
                                    later. After 9 months and all that chelation, I was much better, but
                                    the aluminum still showed up as a problem on the urinalysis because
                                    it was still coming out of my body. I just avoid aluminum now; no
                                    antiperspirant, no aluminum pans, no sodas in aluminum cans, etc.

                                    I just hold my breath when pouring in the alum crystals. My alum
                                    crystals just don't seem to be getting air born, so I really haven't
                                    been very concerned about it. I don't use a mask either, Iris. I use
                                    long gloves when I hang up my fabric to dry and I do worry about the
                                    drips getting on me. If you can actually see the stuff in the air
                                    or if you can smell it, I think that you should definitely wear a
                                    dust mask. I stir the stuff into the water at arm's length and avoid
                                    breathing any rising steam from the hot water. If you can smell it,
                                    it means that it is in your lungs and is going into your
                                    bloodstream.

                                    The detox progams are especially hard on a person if they are
                                    carrying a heavy load of toxins because the detoxing stirs them up
                                    from wherever the body has parked them and so you can become more
                                    symptomatic during the detox process. A good doctor is essential. I
                                    have a load of mercury too, but I can't handle the side effects of
                                    the detox program for that so I haven't been able to get rid of it.

                                    I never heard that apple pectin would carry lead out. EDTA works
                                    real well though.

                                    Susa Glenn<
                                  • Steve Bryant
                                    Hi, All of this alum talk makes me think of my recent sinus infection & crud. The antibiotic prescribed tasted like metal or copper-like (not that I eat
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Sep 20, 2003
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                                      Hi, All of this alum talk makes me think of my recent sinus infection & "crud." The antibiotic prescribed tasted like metal or copper-like (not that I eat metal) and my urine smelled like it as well. My mouth had this taste of something weird. Makes one wonder ...

                                      I haven't marbled since July, so I don't think that had any effect here. This is a typical side effect of this medication. Sometimes, I'd rather be sick than put up with the meds.

                                      Cynthia
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Susa Glenn
                                      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:56 PM
                                      Subject: [Marbling] Re: Allergies


                                      Hi Iris,
                                      If you want to see if you are carrying a load of aluminum from
                                      slurping on your alumed paper, you need to be tested for heavy metal
                                      toxicity with an IV chelation treatment followed by saving all of
                                      your urine for (I've forgotten...aluminum load was heavy...dementia
                                      is imminent...) maybe 6 hours and then handing the jug back to the
                                      doctor so they can send some off to be analized. The chelation IV
                                      takes, oh, 3-4 hours. They did a hair analysis on me too, but the
                                      doctor trusted the above urine test more as the aluminum is a heavy
                                      metal and is firmly linked to your cells until set free by the
                                      chelating agent, EDTA. Because it is chemically linked to your
                                      cells, it isn't just floating around loose in your blood so it is
                                      hard to test for with a simple blood test. I had aluminum pretty
                                      bad, along with lead, cadmium, and arsenic. I also tested as hyper-
                                      sensitive to aluminum (sorta like an allergy).

                                      Anyway.... If you are sneezing, it means that you are getting minute
                                      particles of alum in you and your body really doesn't want any more,
                                      thanks anyway. Breathing it into your lungs is a MUCH more efficient
                                      way of getting a toxic load into your body than daubing it onto your
                                      skin. I'm not real sure where it ranks with slurping it off of paper
                                      though.

                                      Susa Glenn

                                      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, IrisNevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
                                      > Oh it's been extremely minor...only when I forgot to mark the back
                                      which is
                                      > almost never! I was tested last year extensively with blood...they
                                      say
                                      > better than hair now. Am OK....surprisingly! DeTox programs.....i
                                      can't
                                      > handle due to hypoglycemia. I have tried and black. I drink tons
                                      of water
                                      > these days though which is supposedly the cure for many ills.
                                      > thank ye,
                                      > Iris Nevins
                                      >
                                      > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                      > >Iris...years of alum tasting is something to think about. After
                                      all,
                                      > there
                                      > is that connection between aluminum and dementia. You might want
                                      to have a
                                      > test for mineral content. I know a little about testing hair. I
                                      also
                                      > know
                                      > that every year I go for a week long thorough detoxing at the
                                      Optimum
                                      > Health Institute in San Diego and by the third day my mouth tastes
                                      like I
                                      > have an aluminum spoon in it!! It takes 2-3 days to go away. Gail <


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                                    • Steve Bryant
                                      My grandfather had Alzheimer s -- it s not a nice thing. My prayers go out to anyone who is dealing with this condition. Anyway, Mom started using copper
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Sep 20, 2003
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                                        My grandfather had Alzheimer's -- it's not a nice thing. My prayers go out to anyone who is dealing with this condition. Anyway, Mom started using copper bottom cooking utensils. Later, I read that aluminum may not be that big of a factor. Cynthia
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: gretchen vansant
                                        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 8:55 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Allergies




                                        <marblehead@...> wrote:

                                        Aluminum in any form is a suspected cause of dementia/Alzheimers. This hasn't yet been proven, but it's something to think about when handling alum.

                                        ae



                                        --- On Mon 09/15, sixshort < sixshort@... > wrote:
                                        From: sixshort [mailto: sixshort@...]
                                        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:29:37 -0000
                                        Subject: [Marbling] Re: Allergies





                                        -Thanks for all the replies re chemical hazards of handling paints,

                                        alum, solvents etc. I take the utmost care, always rub lanolin or

                                        barrier cream into my hands, wear dispoable latex gloves, take care

                                        not to inhale any powdered paints or alum etc. so will have to do

                                        some sleuth work to find out just what is causing the sneezing when I

                                        start working with the paints, opening jars and so on. Perhaps

                                        supermarket disposable gloves are not resistant to

                                        chemicals . . . . .

                                        I think that newcomers to marbling should be made aware of the

                                        potentially dangerous chemicals they will be using, and trained in

                                        the routine use of safety measures. Many of us have come to marbling

                                        with no previous training in such things, and only a hazy

                                        recollection of chemistry lessons at school. After a couple of years

                                        of marbling it finally dawned on me that I should take safety

                                        precautions seriously!-- Joan Ajala

                                        In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins wrote:

                                        > Wonder why they use it in pickling then? I have been tasting my

                                        papers many

                                        > years, if I forgot to mark the alumed side!

                                        > irisnevins

                                        >

                                        > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com

                                        > >Gail MacKenzie wrote:I am glad that alum, as a

                                        > hazard, came up. Ask for a safety data sheet

                                        > from your supplier. It will tell you that alum should not be

                                        inhaled, wash

                                        > off skin immediately and do not get it in your eyes. It is an

                                        irritant and

                                        > 1 scant teaspoon (you know it tastes like unsweetened lemon lime

                                        koolade)

                                        > is

                                        > a fatal dose for the average adult!!

                                        > <












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                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • irisnevins
                                        My Mothin In Law has it, she is at least one of the happy ones...she seems to be living inside her happiest memories. Still so sad. I have read that too about
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Sep 21, 2003
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                                          My Mothin In Law has it, she is at least one of the happy ones...she seems
                                          to be living inside her happiest memories. Still so sad. I have read that
                                          too about aluminum not being so much a worry, but one never knows what to
                                          believe since they keep changing their minds.....maybe there should be a
                                          study on all these studies to see why they are so inconsistent. ALuminum
                                          pots are bad, copper pots are bad.....cast iron is bad too if you get too
                                          much iron from cooking in it, it is bad for your heart.....mmmm....what
                                          have we left out? Anything.....oh teflon at high temps is supposedly bad.

                                          It's very confusing, isn't it.
                                          Iris Nevins

                                          Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                          >My grandfather had Alzheimer's -- it's not a nice thing. My prayers go
                                          out to anyone who is dealing with this condition. Anyway, Mom started
                                          using copper bottom cooking utensils. Later, I read that aluminum may not
                                          be that big of a factor. Cynthia
                                          <
                                        • hamburgerbuntpapier_de
                                          It s the mixture that does it... too much is always bad, of anything... and there s that thing about personal sensitivities... give yourself a healthy mixture
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Sep 21, 2003
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                                            It's the mixture that does it... too much is always bad, of anything...
                                            and there's that thing about personal sensitivities... give yourself a
                                            healthy mixture of everything and take care with things that can be and
                                            should be avoided, and you can't go really wrong. I think.

                                            Susanne Krause
                                          • Gail MacKenzie
                                            ... Rudolph Steiner of the Theosophist Society suggested gold as the best cooking pot!! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Sep 21, 2003
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              > My Mothin In Law has it, she is at least one of the happy ones...she seems
                                              > to be living inside her happiest memories. Still so sad. I have read that
                                              > too about aluminum not being so much a worry, but one never knows what to
                                              > believe since they keep changing their minds.....maybe there should be a
                                              > study on all these studies to see why they are so inconsistent. ALuminum
                                              > pots are bad, copper pots are bad.....cast iron is bad too if you get too
                                              > much iron from cooking in it, it is bad for your heart.....mmmm....what
                                              > have we left out? Anything.....oh teflon at high temps is supposedly bad.
                                              >
                                              > It's very confusing, isn't it.
                                              > Iris Nevins
                                              Rudolph Steiner of the Theosophist Society suggested gold as the best
                                              cooking pot!!


                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • sixshort
                                              I would wish! I have had my best laugh for ages at the thought of my stove coated in melted gold cooking pots. This is such a great chat (read laugh) line.
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Sep 21, 2003
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                                                I would wish! I have had my best laugh for ages at the thought of my
                                                stove coated in melted gold cooking pots. This is such a great chat
                                                (read laugh) line. Joan Ajala.--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Gail
                                                MacKenzie <gailmackenzi@s...> wrote:
                                                > > My Mothin In Law has it, she is at least one of the happy
                                                ones...she seems
                                                > > to be living inside her happiest memories. Still so sad. I have
                                                read that
                                                > > too about aluminum not being so much a worry, but one never knows
                                                what to
                                                > > believe since they keep changing their minds.....maybe there
                                                should be a
                                                > > study on all these studies to see why they are so inconsistent.
                                                ALuminum
                                                > > pots are bad, copper pots are bad.....cast iron is bad too if you
                                                get too
                                                > > much iron from cooking in it, it is bad for your
                                                heart.....mmmm....what
                                                > > have we left out? Anything.....oh teflon at high temps is
                                                supposedly bad.
                                                > >
                                                > > It's very confusing, isn't it.
                                                > > Iris Nevins
                                                > Rudolph Steiner of the Theosophist Society suggested gold as the
                                                best
                                                > cooking pot!!
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • sixshort
                                                ... anything... ... yourself a ... and
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Sep 21, 2003
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                                                  --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                                                  <hamburgerbuntpapier@t...> wrote:
                                                  > It's the mixture that does it... too much is always bad, of
                                                  anything...
                                                  > and there's that thing about personal sensitivities... give
                                                  yourself a
                                                  > healthy mixture of everything and take care with things that can be
                                                  and
                                                  > should be avoided, and you can't go really wrong. I think.
                                                  >
                                                  > Susanne Krause
                                                • sixshort
                                                  ... anything... ... yourself a ... and
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Sep 21, 2003
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                                                    <hamburgerbuntpapier@t...> wrote:
                                                    > It's the mixture that does it... too much is always bad, of
                                                    anything...
                                                    > and there's that thing about personal sensitivities... give
                                                    yourself a
                                                    > healthy mixture of everything and take care with things that can be
                                                    and
                                                    > should be avoided, and you can't go really wrong. I think.
                                                    >
                                                    > Susanne Krause
                                                  • sixshort
                                                    -Thanks, Susanne. Sounds as if commonsense rules the day. I was very interested in viewing your website, with its varied use of marbled papers. You mentioned
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Sep 21, 2003
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      -Thanks, Susanne. Sounds as if commonsense rules the day. I was very
                                                      interested in viewing your website, with its varied use of marbled
                                                      papers. You mentioned in Message 1896 that Hahnemuhle Natural Line
                                                      Ingra Paper and Bruga paper are good for marbling. As Vi Wilson
                                                      remarked, we are in a paper desert in Australia, and although we
                                                      spend heaps on various kinds of paper, can't find a fine all-purpose
                                                      paper for watercolour marbling that doesn't cost the earth. Can you
                                                      tell us more about these papers, and their availability? Joan Ajala
                                                      <hamburgerbuntpapier@t...> wrote:
                                                      > It's the mixture that does it... too much is always bad, of
                                                      anything...
                                                      > and there's that thing about personal sensitivities... give
                                                      yourself a
                                                      > healthy mixture of everything and take care with things that can be
                                                      and
                                                      > should be avoided, and you can't go really wrong. I think.
                                                      >
                                                      > Susanne Krause
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