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Re: [Marbling] Marbling Base

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  • gretchen vansant
    Hello Edwa,check out dharma trading they have all I need for marbling,but different paints work differently on methel verses carageenan...its all trial and
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 13, 2003
      Hello Edwa,check out "dharma trading" they have all I need for marbling,but different paints work differently on methel verses carageenan...its all trial and error

      Dr Zayus <greatgrapefruit@...> wrote:Hi everyone. My name is Edwa and I've been lurking in this group for
      a while. I've been marbling on pro chem's methylcel but I want to try
      carrageanan. Where can I find some at a decent price? I'm also
      looking for dyes to use on fabric (cotton and silk mostly) thatwill
      be more permanat than what pro chen offers - any suggestions?
      Thanks any happy marbling!


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    • hhumler
      I am curious about your statement about dyes from pro chem. Have you not had good results with them? I have been using their methyl cel and marbling colors
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 14, 2003
        I am curious about your statement about dyes from pro chem. Have you
        not had good results with them? I have been using their methyl cel
        and marbling colors for a number of years and am generally quite
        pleased with what i get. But I have never tried anything else. Am I
        missing something? Certainly what I get looks as nice as the postings
        in the files but maybe there is room for improvement??? Any comments
        you have or anyone else has on the pros and cons of pro chem would be
        greatly appreciated.


        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Dr Zayus" <greatgrapefruit@y...> wrote:
        > Hi everyone. My name is Edwa and I've been lurking in this group for
        > a while. I've been marbling on pro chem's methylcel but I want to try
        > carrageanan. Where can I find some at a decent price? I'm also
        > looking for dyes to use on fabric (cotton and silk mostly) thatwill
        > be more permanat than what pro chen offers - any suggestions?
        > Thanks any happy marbling!
      • gretchen vansant
        Yeah know I never thought of pro-chemical,geeeze I bought my dyes though them in the 70,s but marbling products great...and good prices I see too!...Hey can
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 15, 2003
          Yeah know I never thought of pro-chemical,geeeze I bought my dyes though them in the 70,s but marbling products great...and good prices I see too!...Hey can any one tell me...I,ve never used an"extender" how does it work? I,ll use oxgall occasionally for better spread in an old or thick color,but is an extender different? And what "luminescent" paint works for anyone? (using methol) Thanks Gretchen

          Dr Zayus <greatgrapefruit@...> wrote: Hi everyone. My name is Edwa and I've been lurking in this group for
          a while. I've been marbling on pro chem's methyl but I want to try
          carrageen. Where can I find some at a decent price? I'm also
          looking for dyes to use on fabric (cotton and silk mostly) thatwill
          be more permanat than what pro chen offers - any suggestions?
          Thanks any happy marbling!


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        • Dr Zayus
          Thanks to those that replied to my questions about carrageenan in bulk and dyes that are washable. I ve been using Dharma Trading (thanks Gretchen)to buy blank
          Message 4 of 15 , Sep 18, 2003
            Thanks to those that replied to my questions about carrageenan in
            bulk and dyes that are washable.

            I've been using Dharma Trading (thanks Gretchen)to buy blank silks
            and find them a great resource for a variety of supplies and ideas,
            but their price for carrageenan seems high compared to the price for
            methyl cel from pro chem. I also use pro chem for their MX fiber
            reactive dyes. Comparing the two I see quite a markup by Dharma
            (understanably) when thay sell prochem products and since I buy in
            bulk I find it less expensive to seek out the individual
            manufacturers of products and supplies.

            When I marble, I marble large pieces of fabric, usually 60 inches
            wide and up to 8 feet long. For this I create a huge "table" on my
            work space floor. I mix about 35 gallons of methyl cel at a time to
            accomodate such a large table, hence my desire to find as
            inexpensive supplier for carrageenan as possible. The ease of mixing
            such a large quantity of base using methyl cel is attractive, but
            having only used methyl cel I am curious to experiment with
            carrageenan. From all I read I'm led to believe it has better
            characteristics for fine lines and intricate patterns than methyl
            cel.

            I have been using methyl cel and pro chem marbling colors since 1989
            with no real complaints other than the fact that fabric marbled
            using these colors doesn't wash well. That makes me curious about
            airbrush inks and how washable they are. I've sewn several styles of
            purses and backpack like bags out of fabric I've marbled and sold or
            given them to friends After a while they all seem to fade as the
            color wears off. Neckties tend to rub off color of shirt collars.
            This make me wonder (hhumler) if I am "missing out" on something
            too. Dharma sells a variety of these dyes it says marblers "love"
            them. Any comments fellow marblers?

            Anywho just wondering still if anyone knows of a supplier less
            expensive for carrageenan than Dharma?

            Edwa
          • irisnevins
            What does Dharma charge for carrageenan? RE; colors washing off,,,,try acrylics, I have never had any color fading over nearly two decades of making silk
            Message 5 of 15 , Sep 18, 2003
              What does Dharma charge for carrageenan?

              RE; colors washing off,,,,try acrylics, I have never had any color fading
              over nearly two decades of making silk scarves, if washed by soaking in
              something like Woolite or even Ivory liquid and water. If you scrub or
              throw into washing machine the colors could fade. After all this is a
              surface design, and can be scrubbed off with harsh washing methods.
              Iris Nevins

              Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
              >
              Thanks to those that replied to my questions about carrageenan in
              bulk and dyes that are washable.

              I've been using Dharma Trading (thanks Gretchen)to buy blank silks
              and find them a great resource for a variety of supplies and ideas,
              but their price for carrageenan seems high compared to the price for
              methyl cel from pro chem. I also use pro chem for their MX fiber
              reactive dyes. Comparing the two I see quite a markup by Dharma
              (understanably) when thay sell prochem products and since I buy in
              bulk I find it less expensive to seek out the individual
              manufacturers of products and supplies.

              When I marble, I marble large pieces of fabric, usually 60 inches
              wide and up to 8 feet long. For this I create a huge "table" on my
              work space floor. I mix about 35 gallons of methyl cel at a time to
              accomodate such a large table, hence my desire to find as
              inexpensive supplier for carrageenan as possible. The ease of mixing
              such a large quantity of base using methyl cel is attractive, but
              having only used methyl cel I am curious to experiment with
              carrageenan. From all I read I'm led to believe it has better
              characteristics for fine lines and intricate patterns than methyl
              cel.

              I have been using methyl cel and pro chem marbling colors since 1989
              with no real complaints other than the fact that fabric marbled
              using these colors doesn't wash well. That makes me curious about
              airbrush inks and how washable they are. I've sewn several styles of
              purses and backpack like bags out of fabric I've marbled and sold or
              given them to friends After a while they all seem to fade as the
              color wears off. Neckties tend to rub off color of shirt collars.
              This make me wonder (hhumler) if I am "missing out" on something
              too. Dharma sells a variety of these dyes it says marblers "love"
              them. Any comments fellow marblers?

              Anywho just wondering still if anyone knows of a supplier less
              expensive for carrageenan than Dharma?

              Edwa





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              Subject: [Marbling] Re: Marbling Base
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            • Dr Zayus
              Hi Iris. Dharma s carrageenan is $29.95 per pound,makes about 14gallons. Dick Blick has two kinds: cook and no cook, $15.95 per pound and $21.95 per HALF pound
              Message 6 of 15 , Sep 18, 2003
                Hi Iris.
                Dharma's carrageenan is $29.95 per pound,makes about 14gallons. Dick
                Blick has two kinds: cook and no cook, $15.95 per pound and $21.95
                per HALF pound respectively. Not sure on the yields. Methyl cel from
                pro chem is $10.97 per pound and yield about 14 gallons per pound.
                When I buy several pounds the price drops to like $7.50 or so per
                pound
                I have a variety of Liquitex colors, an acrylic, that I have used
                with some success after much trial and error. I'm curious to try Ph
                Martins and/or Versatex air brush inks next.
                The fading I've seen has mostly been on drawstring closure style
                shoulder/backpack bags I've made where the colors seem to have
                rubbed off after several months of use. Those were marbled with pro
                chem water based marbling colors. I never did ask if the bags had
                been washed in a machine or not. I realize that marbling is a suface
                design and I'm striving to find the most colorful and lasting inks I
                can.
                Thanks,
                Edwa
              • irisnevins
                Hmmm....I charge $24 (plus shipping)per pound currently, blender type, certainly to not make too much on it, but try to keep it moderately low priced. Anyway,
                Message 7 of 15 , Sep 18, 2003
                  Hmmm....I charge $24 (plus shipping)per pound currently, blender type,
                  certainly to not make too much on it, but try to keep it moderately low
                  priced.

                  Anyway, don't mean this as a sales pitch, you can find more current info at
                  my site.
                  marblingpaper.com

                  IrisNevins


                  Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                  >Hi Iris.
                  Dharma's carrageenan is $29.95 per pound,makes about 14gallons. Dick
                  Blick has two kinds: cook and no cook, $15.95 per pound and $21.95
                  per HALF pound respectively. Not sure on the yields. Methyl cel from
                  pro chem is $10.97 per pound and yield about 14 gallons per pound.
                  When I buy several pounds the price drops to like $7.50 or so per
                  pound
                  I have a variety of Liquitex colors, an acrylic, that I have used
                  with some success after much trial and error. I'm curious to try Ph
                  Martins and/or Versatex air brush inks next.
                  The fading I've seen has mostly been on drawstring closure style
                  shoulder/backpack bags I've made where the colors seem to have
                  rubbed off after several months of use. Those were marbled with pro
                  chem water based marbling colors. I never did ask if the bags had
                  been washed in a machine or not. I realize that marbling is a suface
                  design and I'm striving to find the most colorful and lasting inks I
                  can.
                  Thanks,
                  Edwa<
                • gretchen vansant
                  Hi Edwa, After ALOT of trial and error (an yes I ,m the babe in the woods here for time marbling) I REALLY like Dr phil martins spectrolites,alittle
                  Message 8 of 15 , Sep 18, 2003
                    Hi Edwa, After ALOT of trial and error (an yes I ,m the babe in the woods here for time marbling) I REALLY like Dr phil martins spectrolites,alittle expensive,but I get GREAT results. I use these paints on methol. Remember to wash your peices first,before aluming.The sythopol is what I use. happy trails gretchen
                    Dr Zayus <greatgrapefruit@...> wrote:Hi Iris.
                    Dharma's carrageenan is $29.95 per pound,makes about 14gallons. Dick
                    Blick has two kinds: cook and no cook, $15.95 per pound and $21.95
                    per HALF pound respectively. Not sure on the yields. Methyl cel from
                    pro chem is $10.97 per pound and yield about 14 gallons per pound.
                    When I buy several pounds the price drops to like $7.50 or so per
                    pound
                    I have a variety of Liquitex colors, an acrylic, that I have used
                    with some success after much trial and error. I'm curious to try Ph
                    Martins and/or Versatex air brush inks next.
                    The fading I've seen has mostly been on drawstring closure style
                    shoulder/backpack bags I've made where the colors seem to have
                    rubbed off after several months of use. Those were marbled with pro
                    chem water based marbling colors. I never did ask if the bags had
                    been washed in a machine or not. I realize that marbling is a suface
                    design and I'm striving to find the most colorful and lasting inks I
                    can.
                    Thanks,
                    Edwa


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                  • gretchen vansant
                    Great note Edwa, and your welcome, YOUR VAT IS HUGE!....LOL I,ve got accouple hints....If your water is fairly good out of tap....use it ,I used distilled
                    Message 9 of 15 , Sep 18, 2003
                      Great note Edwa, and your welcome, YOUR VAT IS HUGE!....LOL I,ve got accouple hints....If your water is fairly good out of tap....use it ,I used distilled untill recently and well I get fine results with tap water. I get great deals from "Exotic Silks "(regarding fabric) in ca(they have a site) thats if you have a resale licence,or not? Good Luck

                      Dr Zayus <greatgrapefruit@...> wrote:Thanks to those that replied to my questions about carrageenan in
                      bulk and dyes that are washable.

                      I've been using Dharma Trading (thanks Gretchen)to buy blank silks
                      and find them a great resource for a variety of supplies and ideas,
                      but their price for carrageenan seems high compared to the price for
                      methyl cel from pro chem. I also use pro chem for their MX fiber
                      reactive dyes. Comparing the two I see quite a markup by Dharma
                      (understanably) when thay sell prochem products and since I buy in
                      bulk I find it less expensive to seek out the individual
                      manufacturers of products and supplies.

                      When I marble, I marble large pieces of fabric, usually 60 inches
                      wide and up to 8 feet long. For this I create a huge "table" on my
                      work space floor. I mix about 35 gallons of methyl cel at a time to
                      accomodate such a large table, hence my desire to find as
                      inexpensive supplier for carrageenan as possible. The ease of mixing
                      such a large quantity of base using methyl cel is attractive, but
                      having only used methyl cel I am curious to experiment with
                      carrageenan. From all I read I'm led to believe it has better
                      characteristics for fine lines and intricate patterns than methyl
                      cel.

                      I have been using methyl cel and pro chem marbling colors since 1989
                      with no real complaints other than the fact that fabric marbled
                      using these colors doesn't wash well. That makes me curious about
                      airbrush inks and how washable they are. I've sewn several styles of
                      purses and backpack like bags out of fabric I've marbled and sold or
                      given them to friends After a while they all seem to fade as the
                      color wears off. Neckties tend to rub off color of shirt collars.
                      This make me wonder (hhumler) if I am "missing out" on something
                      too. Dharma sells a variety of these dyes it says marblers "love"
                      them. Any comments fellow marblers?

                      Anywho just wondering still if anyone knows of a supplier less
                      expensive for carrageenan than Dharma?

                      Edwa


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                    • Maria Vernersson
                      Dear everybody, A stupid question from a marbling novice: Why do you alum when you use methyl cellulose and acrylics??? I have been marbling on and off for a
                      Message 10 of 15 , Sep 19, 2003
                        Dear everybody,

                        A stupid question from a marbling novice:
                        Why do you alum when you use methyl cellulose and acrylics???

                        I have been marbling on and off for a couple of years, paper only, though
                        (and the occasional piece of wood), first with oil colour and methyl, the
                        last year or so with acrylics and methyl, and I have never ever alumed my
                        papers. Colour never bleeds or washes off. I have put my papers through
                        some pretty rough tests to check.
                        Always assumed aluming was a carragheanan thing (although I never
                        understood why the base would matter so much in that particular respect).

                        maria vernersson

                        Marbling@yahoogroups.com writes:
                        >Hi Edwa, After ALOT of trial and error (an yes I ,m the babe in the woods
                        >here for time marbling) I REALLY like Dr phil martins
                        >spectrolites,alittle expensive,but I get GREAT results. I use these
                        >paints on methol. Remember to wash your peices first,before aluming.The
                        >sythopol is what I use. happy trails gretchen
                        >Dr Zayus <greatgrapefruit@...> wrote:Hi Iris.
                        >Dharma's carrageenan is $29.95 per pound,makes about 14gallons. Dick
                        >Blick has two kinds: cook and no cook, $15.95 per pound and $21.95
                        >per HALF pound respectively. Not sure on the yields. Methyl cel from
                        >pro chem is $10.97 per pound and yield about 14 gallons per pound.
                        >When I buy several pounds the price drops to like $7.50 or so per
                        >pound
                        >I have a variety of Liquitex colors, an acrylic, that I have used
                        >with some success after much trial and error. I'm curious to try Ph
                        >Martins and/or Versatex air brush inks next.
                        >The fading I've seen has mostly been on drawstring closure style
                        >shoulder/backpack bags I've made where the colors seem to have
                        >rubbed off after several months of use. Those were marbled with pro
                        >chem water based marbling colors. I never did ask if the bags had
                        >been washed in a machine or not. I realize that marbling is a suface
                        >design and I'm striving to find the most colorful and lasting inks I
                        >can.
                        >Thanks,
                        >Edwa
                        >
                        >
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                      • irisnevins
                        If the colors are adjusted right, I need no alum either with my own acrylics. BUT.....let s see what happens with all this buffered paper! I spoke to a paper
                        Message 11 of 15 , Sep 19, 2003
                          If the colors are adjusted right, I need no alum either with my own
                          acrylics. BUT.....let's see what happens with all this buffered paper!

                          I spoke to a paper Co. yesterday and they say the calcium carbonate cannot
                          be washed off....it is thrown in with the paper pulp, not applied after.
                          Maybe doubling up the alum could counteract this.....? Ouch......wonder
                          what it will do to the paper. It deserves a try though.

                          iris nevins

                          Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                          >Dear everybody,

                          A stupid question from a marbling novice:
                          Why do you alum when you use methyl cellulose and acrylics???

                          I have been marbling on and off for a couple of years, paper only, though
                          (and the occasional piece of wood), first with oil colour and methyl, the
                          last year or so with acrylics and methyl, and I have never ever alumed my
                          papers. Colour never bleeds or washes off. I have put my papers through
                          some pretty rough tests to check.
                          Always assumed aluming was a carragheanan thing (although I never
                          understood why the base would matter so much in that particular respect).

                          maria vernersson <
                        • Dr Zayus
                          I marble cotton duck to make my packs and purses out of. You just need to make sure the duck is not too tight of a weave, this makes it harder/longer for the
                          Message 12 of 15 , Sep 20, 2003
                            I marble cotton duck to make my packs and purses out of. You just
                            need to make sure the duck is not too tight of a weave, this makes
                            it harder/longer for the design to be absorbed. ---






                            In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Bryant" <jsbryant@c...> wrote:
                            > Hi, I've wanted to marble some canvas bags, also, but haven't
                            tried yet. (I would think the bags mentioned below are canvas.)
                            Any ideas for making the marbling more permanent? From some books
                            that I've read, canvas is harder to marble, but not impossible.
                            thanks.
                            >
                            > Cynthia


                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Steve Bryant
                            Hi, I ve wanted to marble some canvas bags, also, but haven t tried yet. (I would think the bags mentioned below are canvas.) Any ideas for making the
                            Message 13 of 15 , Sep 20, 2003
                              Hi, I've wanted to marble some canvas bags, also, but haven't tried yet. (I would think the bags mentioned below are canvas.) Any ideas for making the marbling more permanent? From some books that I've read, canvas is harder to marble, but not impossible. thanks.

                              Cynthia
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Dr Zayus
                              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 5:35 PM
                              Subject: [Marbling] Re: Marbling Base


                              Hi Iris.
                              Dharma's carrageenan is $29.95 per pound,makes about 14gallons. Dick
                              Blick has two kinds: cook and no cook, $15.95 per pound and $21.95
                              per HALF pound respectively. Not sure on the yields. Methyl cel from
                              pro chem is $10.97 per pound and yield about 14 gallons per pound.
                              When I buy several pounds the price drops to like $7.50 or so per
                              pound
                              I have a variety of Liquitex colors, an acrylic, that I have used
                              with some success after much trial and error. I'm curious to try Ph
                              Martins and/or Versatex air brush inks next.
                              The fading I've seen has mostly been on drawstring closure style
                              shoulder/backpack bags I've made where the colors seem to have
                              rubbed off after several months of use. Those were marbled with pro
                              chem water based marbling colors. I never did ask if the bags had
                              been washed in a machine or not. I realize that marbling is a suface
                              design and I'm striving to find the most colorful and lasting inks I
                              can.
                              Thanks,
                              Edwa


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                              ADVERTISEMENT




                              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Steve Bryant
                              Oops! I believe I read these messages in the wrong order. It seems that the question of using canvas was answered by Iris. So, canvas probably works better,
                              Message 14 of 15 , Sep 20, 2003
                                Oops! I believe I read these messages in the wrong order. It seems that the question of using canvas was answered by Iris. So, canvas probably works better, if not washed in a machine.

                                Cynthia
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: irisnevins
                                To: INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 4:45 PM
                                Subject: [Marbling] Re: Marbling Base


                                What does Dharma charge for carrageenan?

                                RE; colors washing off,,,,try acrylics, I have never had any color fading
                                over nearly two decades of making silk scarves, if washed by soaking in
                                something like Woolite or even Ivory liquid and water. If you scrub or
                                throw into washing machine the colors could fade. After all this is a
                                surface design, and can be scrubbed off with harsh washing methods.
                                Iris Nevins

                                Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                Thanks to those that replied to my questions about carrageenan in
                                bulk and dyes that are washable.

                                I've been using Dharma Trading (thanks Gretchen)to buy blank silks
                                and find them a great resource for a variety of supplies and ideas,
                                but their price for carrageenan seems high compared to the price for
                                methyl cel from pro chem. I also use pro chem for their MX fiber
                                reactive dyes. Comparing the two I see quite a markup by Dharma
                                (understanably) when thay sell prochem products and since I buy in
                                bulk I find it less expensive to seek out the individual
                                manufacturers of products and supplies.

                                When I marble, I marble large pieces of fabric, usually 60 inches
                                wide and up to 8 feet long. For this I create a huge "table" on my
                                work space floor. I mix about 35 gallons of methyl cel at a time to
                                accomodate such a large table, hence my desire to find as
                                inexpensive supplier for carrageenan as possible. The ease of mixing
                                such a large quantity of base using methyl cel is attractive, but
                                having only used methyl cel I am curious to experiment with
                                carrageenan. From all I read I'm led to believe it has better
                                characteristics for fine lines and intricate patterns than methyl
                                cel.

                                I have been using methyl cel and pro chem marbling colors since 1989
                                with no real complaints other than the fact that fabric marbled
                                using these colors doesn't wash well. That makes me curious about
                                airbrush inks and how washable they are. I've sewn several styles of
                                purses and backpack like bags out of fabric I've marbled and sold or
                                given them to friends After a while they all seem to fade as the
                                color wears off. Neckties tend to rub off color of shirt collars.
                                This make me wonder (hhumler) if I am "missing out" on something
                                too. Dharma sells a variety of these dyes it says marblers "love"
                                them. Any comments fellow marblers?

                                Anywho just wondering still if anyone knows of a supplier less
                                expensive for carrageenan than Dharma?

                                Edwa





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