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Allergies

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  • J Dolphin
    Of allergies to substances for marbling--my first guess--is certainly a sensitivity to something in the air around your set up. Thanks very much for posting
    Message 1 of 29 , Sep 7, 2003
      Of allergies to substances for marbling--my first guess--is certainly a
      sensitivity to something in the air around your set up.
      Thanks very much for posting this--as the subject of toxic artist
      materials--has never really come up on this list.
      I welcome the readers to offer their suggestions and experiences--and
      maybe--collectively--we'll all see some commonalities to prevent hazards.
      Jill
      ++++++++++++++++++

      Joan Ajala
      > P.S. Has anyone else become allergic to marbling paints/oxgall/alum
      > etc.? Whatever is causing it, I sneeze uncontrollably for some five
      > minutes whenever I start uncovering or working with marbling
      > constituents. It doesn't last, fortunately.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      >
      >
      >
    • irisnevins
      When I spoon out the alum to mix it, I ALWAYS hold my breath...or else have a sneezing fit. I also hate the feel of aluming without gloves...it makes my skin
      Message 2 of 29 , Sep 7, 2003
        When I spoon out the alum to mix it, I ALWAYS hold my breath...or else have
        a sneezing fit. I also hate the feel of aluming without gloves...it makes
        my skin crawl for hours later. Guess it is astringent. Formaldehyd based
        size preservative, if there is a bottle open for five minutes I get ill. I
        just make enough size for the day instead now.

        Iris Nevins
      • J Dolphin
        You have a very good point about alum as powder--and inhalant. Other types of alum are used in pickling--and there is a type used--when disslolved in water--as
        Message 3 of 29 , Sep 7, 2003
          You have a very good point about alum as powder--and inhalant. Other
          types of alum are used in pickling--and there is a type used--when
          disslolved in water--as a foot bath/ disinfecant.
          Jill
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...>
          To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 8:39 AM
          Subject: [Marbling] Allergies


          > When I spoon out the alum to mix it, I ALWAYS hold my breath...or else
          have
          > a sneezing fit. I also hate the feel of aluming without gloves...it makes
          > my skin crawl for hours later. Guess it is astringent. Formaldehyd based
          > size preservative, if there is a bottle open for five minutes I get ill. I
          > just make enough size for the day instead now.
          >
          > Iris Nevins
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • Gail MacKenzie
          I am glad that alum, as a hazard, came up. Ask for a safety data sheet from your supplier. It will tell you that alum should not be inhaled, wash off skin
          Message 4 of 29 , Sep 14, 2003
            I am glad that alum, as a hazard, came up. Ask for a safety data sheet
            from your supplier. It will tell you that alum should not be inhaled, wash
            off skin immediately and do not get it in your eyes. It is an irritant and
            1 scant teaspoon (you know it tastes like unsweetened lemon lime koolade) is
            a fatal dose for the average adult!!


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • gretchen vansant
            LOL Gail! I does taste alittle like salty unsweeted lemonade! Sometimes I,ll Test the waters by alittle lick .But yes never in great amounts. Gail
            Message 5 of 29 , Sep 14, 2003
              LOL Gail! I does taste alittle like salty unsweeted lemonade! Sometimes I,ll "Test" the waters by alittle "lick".But yes never in great amounts.

              Gail MacKenzie <gailmackenzi@...> wrote:I am glad that alum, as a hazard, came up. Ask for a safety data sheet
              from your supplier. It will tell you that alum should not be inhaled, wash
              off skin immediately and do not get it in your eyes. It is an irritant and
              1 scant teaspoon (you know it tastes like unsweetened lemon lime koolade) is
              a fatal dose for the average adult!!


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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            • irisnevins
              Wonder why they use it in pickling then? I have been tasting my papers many years, if I forgot to mark the alumed side! irisnevins Message text written by
              Message 6 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
                Wonder why they use it in pickling then? I have been tasting my papers many
                years, if I forgot to mark the alumed side!
                irisnevins

                Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                >Gail MacKenzie <gailmackenzi@...> wrote:I am glad that alum, as a
                hazard, came up. Ask for a safety data sheet
                from your supplier. It will tell you that alum should not be inhaled, wash
                off skin immediately and do not get it in your eyes. It is an irritant and
                1 scant teaspoon (you know it tastes like unsweetened lemon lime koolade)
                is
                a fatal dose for the average adult!!
                <
              • sixshort
                -Thanks for all the replies re chemical hazards of handling paints, alum, solvents etc. I take the utmost care, always rub lanolin or barrier cream into my
                Message 7 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
                  -Thanks for all the replies re chemical hazards of handling paints,
                  alum, solvents etc. I take the utmost care, always rub lanolin or
                  barrier cream into my hands, wear dispoable latex gloves, take care
                  not to inhale any powdered paints or alum etc. so will have to do
                  some sleuth work to find out just what is causing the sneezing when I
                  start working with the paints, opening jars and so on. Perhaps
                  supermarket disposable gloves are not resistant to
                  chemicals . . . . .
                  I think that newcomers to marbling should be made aware of the
                  potentially dangerous chemicals they will be using, and trained in
                  the routine use of safety measures. Many of us have come to marbling
                  with no previous training in such things, and only a hazy
                  recollection of chemistry lessons at school. After a couple of years
                  of marbling it finally dawned on me that I should take safety
                  precautions seriously!-- Joan Ajala
                  In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
                  > Wonder why they use it in pickling then? I have been tasting my
                  papers many
                  > years, if I forgot to mark the alumed side!
                  > irisnevins
                  >
                  > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                  > >Gail MacKenzie <gailmackenzi@s...> wrote:I am glad that alum, as a
                  > hazard, came up. Ask for a safety data sheet
                  > from your supplier. It will tell you that alum should not be
                  inhaled, wash
                  > off skin immediately and do not get it in your eyes. It is an
                  irritant and
                  > 1 scant teaspoon (you know it tastes like unsweetened lemon lime
                  koolade)
                  > is
                  > a fatal dose for the average adult!!
                  > <
                • marblehead@iwon.com
                  Aluminum in any form is a suspected cause of dementia/Alzheimers. This hasn t yet been proven, but it s something to think about when handling alum. ae ...
                  Message 8 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
                    Aluminum in any form is a suspected cause of dementia/Alzheimers. This hasn't yet been proven, but it's something to think about when handling alum.

                    ae



                    --- On Mon 09/15, sixshort < sixshort@... > wrote:
                    From: sixshort [mailto: sixshort@...]
                    To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:29:37 -0000
                    Subject: [Marbling] Re: Allergies

                    <html><body>


                    <tt>
                    -Thanks for all the replies re chemical hazards of handling paints, <BR>
                    alum, solvents etc. I take the utmost care, always rub lanolin or <BR>
                    barrier cream into my hands, wear dispoable latex gloves, take care <BR>
                    not to inhale any powdered paints or alum etc. so will have to do <BR>
                    some sleuth work to find out just what is causing the sneezing when I <BR>
                    start working with the paints, opening jars and so on.� Perhaps <BR>
                    supermarket disposable gloves are not resistant to <BR>
                    chemicals . . . . . <BR>
                    I think that newcomers to marbling should be made aware of the <BR>
                    potentially dangerous chemicals they will be using, and trained in <BR>
                    the routine use of safety measures.� Many of us have come to marbling <BR>
                    with no previous training in such things, and only a hazy <BR>
                    recollection of chemistry lessons at school.� After a couple of years <BR>
                    of marbling it finally dawned on me that I should take safety <BR>
                    precautions seriously!--�� Joan Ajala������������������������������ <BR>
                    In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:<BR>
                    > Wonder why they use it in pickling then? I have been tasting my <BR>
                    papers many<BR>
                    > years, if I forgot to mark the alumed side!<BR>
                    > irisnevins<BR>
                    > <BR>
                    > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<BR>
                    > >Gail MacKenzie <gailmackenzi@s...> wrote:I am glad� that alum, as a<BR>
                    > hazard, came up.� Ask for a safety data sheet<BR>
                    > from your supplier.� It will tell you that alum should not be <BR>
                    inhaled, wash<BR>
                    > off skin immediately and do not get it in your eyes.� It is an <BR>
                    irritant and<BR>
                    > 1 scant teaspoon (you know it tastes like unsweetened lemon lime <BR>
                    koolade)<BR>
                    > is<BR>
                    > a fatal dose for the average adult!! <BR>
                    > <<BR>
                    <BR>
                    </tt>

                    <br>

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                  • gretchen vansant
                    wrote: Aluminum in any form is a suspected cause of dementia/Alzheimers. This hasn t yet been proven, but it s something to think about
                    Message 9 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
                      <marblehead@...> wrote:

                      Aluminum in any form is a suspected cause of dementia/Alzheimers. This hasn't yet been proven, but it's something to think about when handling alum.

                      ae



                      --- On Mon 09/15, sixshort < sixshort@... > wrote:
                      From: sixshort [mailto: sixshort@...]
                      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:29:37 -0000
                      Subject: [Marbling] Re: Allergies





                      -Thanks for all the replies re chemical hazards of handling paints,

                      alum, solvents etc. I take the utmost care, always rub lanolin or

                      barrier cream into my hands, wear dispoable latex gloves, take care

                      not to inhale any powdered paints or alum etc. so will have to do

                      some sleuth work to find out just what is causing the sneezing when I

                      start working with the paints, opening jars and so on. Perhaps

                      supermarket disposable gloves are not resistant to

                      chemicals . . . . .

                      I think that newcomers to marbling should be made aware of the

                      potentially dangerous chemicals they will be using, and trained in

                      the routine use of safety measures. Many of us have come to marbling

                      with no previous training in such things, and only a hazy

                      recollection of chemistry lessons at school. After a couple of years

                      of marbling it finally dawned on me that I should take safety

                      precautions seriously!-- Joan Ajala

                      In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins wrote:

                      > Wonder why they use it in pickling then? I have been tasting my

                      papers many

                      > years, if I forgot to mark the alumed side!

                      > irisnevins

                      >

                      > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com

                      > >Gail MacKenzie wrote:I am glad that alum, as a

                      > hazard, came up. Ask for a safety data sheet

                      > from your supplier. It will tell you that alum should not be

                      inhaled, wash

                      > off skin immediately and do not get it in your eyes. It is an

                      irritant and

                      > 1 scant teaspoon (you know it tastes like unsweetened lemon lime

                      koolade)

                      > is

                      > a fatal dose for the average adult!!

                      > <












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                    • IrisNevins
                      Oh it s been extremely minor...only when I forgot to mark the back which is almost never! I was tested last year extensively with blood...they say better than
                      Message 10 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
                        Oh it's been extremely minor...only when I forgot to mark the back which is
                        almost never! I was tested last year extensively with blood...they say
                        better than hair now. Am OK....surprisingly! DeTox programs.....i can't
                        handle due to hypoglycemia. I have tried and black. I drink tons of water
                        these days though which is supposedly the cure for many ills.
                        thank ye,
                        Iris Nevins

                        Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                        >Iris...years of alum tasting is something to think about. After all,
                        there
                        is that connection between aluminum and dementia. You might want to have a
                        test for mineral content. I know a little about testing hair. I also
                        know
                        that every year I go for a week long thorough detoxing at the Optimum
                        Health Institute in San Diego and by the third day my mouth tastes like I
                        have an aluminum spoon in it!! It takes 2-3 days to go away. Gail <
                      • Gail MacKenzie
                        Iris...years of alum tasting is something to think about. After all, there is that connection between aluminum and dementia. You might want to have a test for
                        Message 11 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
                          Iris...years of alum tasting is something to think about. After all, there
                          is that connection between aluminum and dementia. You might want to have a
                          test for mineral content. I know a little about testing hair. I also know
                          that every year I go for a week long thorough detoxing at the Optimum
                          Health Institute in San Diego and by the third day my mouth tastes like I
                          have an aluminum spoon in it!! It takes 2-3 days to go away. Gail


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Susa Glenn
                          Hi Iris, If you want to see if you are carrying a load of aluminum from slurping on your alumed paper, you need to be tested for heavy metal toxicity with an
                          Message 12 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
                            Hi Iris,
                            If you want to see if you are carrying a load of aluminum from
                            slurping on your alumed paper, you need to be tested for heavy metal
                            toxicity with an IV chelation treatment followed by saving all of
                            your urine for (I've forgotten...aluminum load was heavy...dementia
                            is imminent...) maybe 6 hours and then handing the jug back to the
                            doctor so they can send some off to be analized. The chelation IV
                            takes, oh, 3-4 hours. They did a hair analysis on me too, but the
                            doctor trusted the above urine test more as the aluminum is a heavy
                            metal and is firmly linked to your cells until set free by the
                            chelating agent, EDTA. Because it is chemically linked to your
                            cells, it isn't just floating around loose in your blood so it is
                            hard to test for with a simple blood test. I had aluminum pretty
                            bad, along with lead, cadmium, and arsenic. I also tested as hyper-
                            sensitive to aluminum (sorta like an allergy).

                            Anyway.... If you are sneezing, it means that you are getting minute
                            particles of alum in you and your body really doesn't want any more,
                            thanks anyway. Breathing it into your lungs is a MUCH more efficient
                            way of getting a toxic load into your body than daubing it onto your
                            skin. I'm not real sure where it ranks with slurping it off of paper
                            though.

                            Susa Glenn

                            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, IrisNevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
                            > Oh it's been extremely minor...only when I forgot to mark the back
                            which is
                            > almost never! I was tested last year extensively with blood...they
                            say
                            > better than hair now. Am OK....surprisingly! DeTox programs.....i
                            can't
                            > handle due to hypoglycemia. I have tried and black. I drink tons
                            of water
                            > these days though which is supposedly the cure for many ills.
                            > thank ye,
                            > Iris Nevins
                            >
                            > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                            > >Iris...years of alum tasting is something to think about. After
                            all,
                            > there
                            > is that connection between aluminum and dementia. You might want
                            to have a
                            > test for mineral content. I know a little about testing hair. I
                            also
                            > know
                            > that every year I go for a week long thorough detoxing at the
                            Optimum
                            > Health Institute in San Diego and by the third day my mouth tastes
                            like I
                            > have an aluminum spoon in it!! It takes 2-3 days to go away. Gail <
                          • M. Gilbert
                            Quick question from a newbie... any chance wearing one of those paper face masks would help prevent inhalation, or are the particles too small? This is sorta
                            Message 13 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
                              Quick question from a newbie... any chance wearing one of those paper face
                              masks would help prevent inhalation, or are the particles too small? This
                              is sorta scary.

                              - Michelle Gilbert
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Susa Glenn [mailto:sglenn@...]
                              Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:57 PM
                              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [Marbling] Re: Allergies


                              Hi Iris,
                              If you want to see if you are carrying a load of aluminum from
                              slurping on your alumed paper, you need to be tested for heavy metal
                              toxicity with an IV chelation treatment followed by saving all of
                              your urine for (I've forgotten...aluminum load was heavy...dementia
                              is imminent...) maybe 6 hours and then handing the jug back to the
                              doctor so they can send some off to be analized. The chelation IV
                              takes, oh, 3-4 hours. They did a hair analysis on me too, but the
                              doctor trusted the above urine test more as the aluminum is a heavy
                              metal and is firmly linked to your cells until set free by the
                              chelating agent, EDTA. Because it is chemically linked to your
                              cells, it isn't just floating around loose in your blood so it is
                              hard to test for with a simple blood test. I had aluminum pretty
                              bad, along with lead, cadmium, and arsenic. I also tested as hyper-
                              sensitive to aluminum (sorta like an allergy).

                              Anyway.... If you are sneezing, it means that you are getting minute
                              particles of alum in you and your body really doesn't want any more,
                              thanks anyway. Breathing it into your lungs is a MUCH more efficient
                              way of getting a toxic load into your body than daubing it onto your
                              skin. I'm not real sure where it ranks with slurping it off of paper
                              though.

                              Susa Glenn

                              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, IrisNevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
                              > Oh it's been extremely minor...only when I forgot to mark the back
                              which is
                              > almost never! I was tested last year extensively with blood...they
                              say
                              > better than hair now. Am OK....surprisingly! DeTox programs.....i
                              can't
                              > handle due to hypoglycemia. I have tried and black. I drink tons
                              of water
                              > these days though which is supposedly the cure for many ills.
                              > thank ye,
                              > Iris Nevins
                              >
                              > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                              > >Iris...years of alum tasting is something to think about. After
                              all,
                              > there
                              > is that connection between aluminum and dementia. You might want
                              to have a
                              > test for mineral content. I know a little about testing hair. I
                              also
                              > know
                              > that every year I go for a week long thorough detoxing at the
                              Optimum
                              > Health Institute in San Diego and by the third day my mouth tastes
                              like I
                              > have an aluminum spoon in it!! It takes 2-3 days to go away. Gail <


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                            • J Dolphin
                              You need the right mask for the right job.........hence--check with your local hardware companies for what they offer for various work. ...........Alum here
                              Message 14 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
                                You need the right mask for the right job.........hence--check with your
                                local hardware companies for what they offer for various work.
                                ...........Alum here for marblers will be in two different states--the
                                first--where it is powder and you are pouring the crystals. The
                                second--where it is liquid once mixed with water......Would an ordinary
                                surgical paper mask work? I don't know.
                                Jill
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "M. Gilbert" <michelle.gilbert@...>
                                To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 5:01 PM
                                Subject: RE: [Marbling] Re: Allergies


                                > Quick question from a newbie... any chance wearing one of those paper face
                                > masks would help prevent inhalation, or are the particles too small? This
                                > is sorta scary.
                                >
                                > - Michelle Gilbert
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: Susa Glenn [mailto:sglenn@...]
                                > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:57 PM
                                > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: [Marbling] Re: Allergies
                                >
                                >
                                > Hi Iris,
                                > If you want to see if you are carrying a load of aluminum from
                                > slurping on your alumed paper, you need to be tested for heavy metal
                                > toxicity with an IV chelation treatment followed by saving all of
                                > your urine for (I've forgotten...aluminum load was heavy...dementia
                                > is imminent...) maybe 6 hours and then handing the jug back to the
                                > doctor so they can send some off to be analized. The chelation IV
                                > takes, oh, 3-4 hours. They did a hair analysis on me too, but the
                                > doctor trusted the above urine test more as the aluminum is a heavy
                                > metal and is firmly linked to your cells until set free by the
                                > chelating agent, EDTA. Because it is chemically linked to your
                                > cells, it isn't just floating around loose in your blood so it is
                                > hard to test for with a simple blood test. I had aluminum pretty
                                > bad, along with lead, cadmium, and arsenic. I also tested as hyper-
                                > sensitive to aluminum (sorta like an allergy).
                                >
                                > Anyway.... If you are sneezing, it means that you are getting minute
                                > particles of alum in you and your body really doesn't want any more,
                                > thanks anyway. Breathing it into your lungs is a MUCH more efficient
                                > way of getting a toxic load into your body than daubing it onto your
                                > skin. I'm not real sure where it ranks with slurping it off of paper
                                > though.
                                >
                                > Susa Glenn
                                >
                                > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, IrisNevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
                                > > Oh it's been extremely minor...only when I forgot to mark the back
                                > which is
                                > > almost never! I was tested last year extensively with blood...they
                                > say
                                > > better than hair now. Am OK....surprisingly! DeTox programs.....i
                                > can't
                                > > handle due to hypoglycemia. I have tried and black. I drink tons
                                > of water
                                > > these days though which is supposedly the cure for many ills.
                                > > thank ye,
                                > > Iris Nevins
                                > >
                                > > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                > > >Iris...years of alum tasting is something to think about. After
                                > all,
                                > > there
                                > > is that connection between aluminum and dementia. You might want
                                > to have a
                                > > test for mineral content. I know a little about testing hair. I
                                > also
                                > > know
                                > > that every year I go for a week long thorough detoxing at the
                                > Optimum
                                > > Health Institute in San Diego and by the third day my mouth tastes
                                > like I
                                > > have an aluminum spoon in it!! It takes 2-3 days to go away. Gail <
                                >
                                >
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                              • Gail MacKenzie
                                Thanks Susan...your message to Iris was very informative. Gail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                Message 15 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
                                  Thanks Susan...your message to Iris was very informative. Gail


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • irisnevins
                                  I can t imagine alum in solution...liquid....would require a mask. If I have to alum in a mask I think i d rather quit. I can see it when the particles of
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
                                    I can't imagine alum in solution...liquid....would require a mask. If I
                                    have to alum in a mask I think i'd rather quit. I can see it when the
                                    particles of powder fly around, but not while liquid. Same goes for
                                    pigments...not good to breathe but once in liquid paint? I couldn't imagine
                                    it is a problem...and if it is, so be it. I'd rather be comfortable. I just
                                    hold my breath while spooning out the alum....can't stand the sneezles! But
                                    paint surely doesn't bother me. I have also decided to marble sans gloves,
                                    only wear them while aluming because it makes my hands crawl.

                                    Iris Nevins


                                    Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                    >
                                    You need the right mask for the right job.........hence--check with
                                    your
                                    local hardware companies for what they offer for various work.
                                    ...........Alum here for marblers will be in two different states--the
                                    first--where it is powder and you are pouring the crystals. The
                                    second--where it is liquid once mixed with water......Would an ordinary
                                    surgical paper mask work? I don't know.
                                    Jill<
                                  • irisnevins
                                    Thanks for info.....but how does one get rid of it all? These detox programs nearly kill me. I know apple pectin carries lead out....maybe an apple a day does
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
                                      Thanks for info.....but how does one get rid of it all? These detox
                                      programs nearly kill me. I know apple pectin carries lead out....maybe an
                                      apple a day does keep the Dr. away?
                                      irisnevins

                                      Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                      >Hi Iris,
                                      If you want to see if you are carrying a load of aluminum from
                                      slurping on your alumed paper, you need to be tested for heavy metal
                                      toxicity with an IV chelation treatment followed by saving all of
                                      your urine for (I've forgotten...aluminum load was heavy...dementia
                                      is imminent...) maybe 6 hours and then handing the jug back to the
                                      doctor so they can send some off to be analized. The chelation IV
                                      takes, oh, 3-4 hours. They did a hair analysis on me too, but the
                                      doctor trusted the above urine test more as the aluminum is a heavy
                                      metal and is firmly linked to your cells until set free by the
                                      chelating agent, EDTA. Because it is chemically linked to your
                                      cells, it isn't just floating around loose in your blood so it is
                                      hard to test for with a simple blood test. I had aluminum pretty
                                      bad, along with lead, cadmium, and arsenic. I also tested as hyper-
                                      sensitive to aluminum (sorta like an allergy).

                                      Anyway.... If you are sneezing, it means that you are getting minute
                                      particles of alum in you and your body really doesn't want any more,
                                      thanks anyway. Breathing it into your lungs is a MUCH more efficient
                                      way of getting a toxic load into your body than daubing it onto your
                                      skin. I'm not real sure where it ranks with slurping it off of paper
                                      though.

                                      Susa Glenn<
                                    • irisnevins
                                      PS...I really am not slurping alum! the once in a blue moon taste test......which by the way cannot be tasted on the danged newly buffered paper......back to
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Sep 15, 2003
                                        PS...I really am not slurping alum! the once in a blue moon taste
                                        test......which by the way cannot be tasted on the danged newly buffered
                                        paper......back to that....anyone care to mention which other papers work
                                        for them? Mimi and I are going a little crazy right now.
                                        I.Nevins

                                        Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                        >Hi Iris,
                                        If you want to see if you are carrying a load of aluminum from
                                        slurping on your alumed paper, you need to be tested for heavy metal
                                        toxicity with an IV chelation treatment followed by saving all of
                                        your urine for (I've forgotten...aluminum load was heavy...dementia
                                        is imminent...) maybe 6 hours and then handing the jug back to the
                                        doctor so they can send some off to be analized. The chelation IV
                                        takes, oh, 3-4 hours. They did a hair analysis on me too, but the
                                        doctor trusted the above urine test more as the aluminum is a heavy
                                        metal and is firmly linked to your cells until set free by the
                                        chelating agent, EDTA. Because it is chemically linked to your
                                        cells, it isn't just floating around loose in your blood so it is
                                        hard to test for with a simple blood test. I had aluminum pretty
                                        bad, along with lead, cadmium, and arsenic. I also tested as hyper-
                                        sensitive to aluminum (sorta like an allergy).

                                        Anyway.... If you are sneezing, it means that you are getting minute
                                        particles of alum in you and your body really doesn't want any more,
                                        thanks anyway. Breathing it into your lungs is a MUCH more efficient
                                        way of getting a toxic load into your body than daubing it onto your
                                        skin. I'm not real sure where it ranks with slurping it off of paper
                                        though.

                                        Susa Glenn<
                                      • Susa Glenn
                                        I went through over 60 chelation treatments in 1994 because I got really sick (Dursban poisoning) and the doctor put me through a big time general detox
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Sep 16, 2003
                                          I went through over 60 chelation treatments in 1994 because I got
                                          really sick (Dursban poisoning) and the doctor put me through a big
                                          time general detox program to lower my overall load of toxins.
                                          Nobody knew it was Dursban at the time; I found out about 6 months
                                          later. After 9 months and all that chelation, I was much better, but
                                          the aluminum still showed up as a problem on the urinalysis because
                                          it was still coming out of my body. I just avoid aluminum now; no
                                          antiperspirant, no aluminum pans, no sodas in aluminum cans, etc.

                                          I just hold my breath when pouring in the alum crystals. My alum
                                          crystals just don't seem to be getting air born, so I really haven't
                                          been very concerned about it. I don't use a mask either, Iris. I use
                                          long gloves when I hang up my fabric to dry and I do worry about the
                                          drips getting on me. If you can actually see the stuff in the air
                                          or if you can smell it, I think that you should definitely wear a
                                          dust mask. I stir the stuff into the water at arm's length and avoid
                                          breathing any rising steam from the hot water. If you can smell it,
                                          it means that it is in your lungs and is going into your
                                          bloodstream.

                                          The detox progams are especially hard on a person if they are
                                          carrying a heavy load of toxins because the detoxing stirs them up
                                          from wherever the body has parked them and so you can become more
                                          symptomatic during the detox process. A good doctor is essential. I
                                          have a load of mercury too, but I can't handle the side effects of
                                          the detox program for that so I haven't been able to get rid of it.

                                          I never heard that apple pectin would carry lead out. EDTA works
                                          real well though.

                                          Susa Glenn

                                          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
                                          > Thanks for info.....but how does one get rid of it all? These detox
                                          > programs nearly kill me. I know apple pectin carries lead
                                          out....maybe an
                                          > apple a day does keep the Dr. away?
                                          > irisnevins
                                          >
                                          > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                          > >Hi Iris,
                                          > If you want to see if you are carrying a load of aluminum from
                                          > slurping on your alumed paper, you need to be tested for heavy
                                          metal
                                          > toxicity with an IV chelation treatment followed by saving all of
                                          > your urine for (I've forgotten...aluminum load was
                                          heavy...dementia
                                          > is imminent...) maybe 6 hours and then handing the jug back to
                                          the
                                          > doctor so they can send some off to be analized. The chelation IV
                                          > takes, oh, 3-4 hours. They did a hair analysis on me too, but the
                                          > doctor trusted the above urine test more as the aluminum is a
                                          heavy
                                          > metal and is firmly linked to your cells until set free by the
                                          > chelating agent, EDTA. Because it is chemically linked to your
                                          > cells, it isn't just floating around loose in your blood so it is
                                          > hard to test for with a simple blood test. I had aluminum pretty
                                          > bad, along with lead, cadmium, and arsenic. I also tested as
                                          hyper-
                                          > sensitive to aluminum (sorta like an allergy).
                                          >
                                          > Anyway.... If you are sneezing, it means that you are getting
                                          minute
                                          > particles of alum in you and your body really doesn't want any
                                          more,
                                          > thanks anyway. Breathing it into your lungs is a MUCH more
                                          efficient
                                          > way of getting a toxic load into your body than daubing it onto
                                          your
                                          > skin. I'm not real sure where it ranks with slurping it off of
                                          paper
                                          > though.
                                          >
                                          > Susa Glenn<
                                        • irisnevins
                                          Many years ago when I did stained glass work my teacher told us about the pectin, then I read it somewhere else too. We breathed lots of lead fumes from the
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Sep 16, 2003
                                            Many years ago when I did stained glass work my teacher told us about the
                                            pectin, then I read it somewhere else too. We breathed lots of lead fumes
                                            from the lead caming and the solder. Now, in my other role as jeweler I use
                                            a lot of solder, polishing compounds and such. I find it utterly impossible
                                            to wear a mask while doing fine jewelry work, because the magnifying
                                            glasses I wear fog up. So I just will take my chances .....just love it too
                                            much to give it up. Never mind all the cut fingers ....open wounds with all
                                            that dirt around.....

                                            IrisNevins

                                            Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                            >
                                            I went through over 60 chelation treatments in 1994 because I got
                                            really sick (Dursban poisoning) and the doctor put me through a big
                                            time general detox program to lower my overall load of toxins.
                                            Nobody knew it was Dursban at the time; I found out about 6 months
                                            later. After 9 months and all that chelation, I was much better, but
                                            the aluminum still showed up as a problem on the urinalysis because
                                            it was still coming out of my body. I just avoid aluminum now; no
                                            antiperspirant, no aluminum pans, no sodas in aluminum cans, etc.

                                            I just hold my breath when pouring in the alum crystals. My alum
                                            crystals just don't seem to be getting air born, so I really haven't
                                            been very concerned about it. I don't use a mask either, Iris. I use
                                            long gloves when I hang up my fabric to dry and I do worry about the
                                            drips getting on me. If you can actually see the stuff in the air
                                            or if you can smell it, I think that you should definitely wear a
                                            dust mask. I stir the stuff into the water at arm's length and avoid
                                            breathing any rising steam from the hot water. If you can smell it,
                                            it means that it is in your lungs and is going into your
                                            bloodstream.

                                            The detox progams are especially hard on a person if they are
                                            carrying a heavy load of toxins because the detoxing stirs them up
                                            from wherever the body has parked them and so you can become more
                                            symptomatic during the detox process. A good doctor is essential. I
                                            have a load of mercury too, but I can't handle the side effects of
                                            the detox program for that so I haven't been able to get rid of it.

                                            I never heard that apple pectin would carry lead out. EDTA works
                                            real well though.

                                            Susa Glenn<
                                          • Steve Bryant
                                            Hi, All of this alum talk makes me think of my recent sinus infection & crud. The antibiotic prescribed tasted like metal or copper-like (not that I eat
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Sep 20, 2003
                                              Hi, All of this alum talk makes me think of my recent sinus infection & "crud." The antibiotic prescribed tasted like metal or copper-like (not that I eat metal) and my urine smelled like it as well. My mouth had this taste of something weird. Makes one wonder ...

                                              I haven't marbled since July, so I don't think that had any effect here. This is a typical side effect of this medication. Sometimes, I'd rather be sick than put up with the meds.

                                              Cynthia
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: Susa Glenn
                                              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:56 PM
                                              Subject: [Marbling] Re: Allergies


                                              Hi Iris,
                                              If you want to see if you are carrying a load of aluminum from
                                              slurping on your alumed paper, you need to be tested for heavy metal
                                              toxicity with an IV chelation treatment followed by saving all of
                                              your urine for (I've forgotten...aluminum load was heavy...dementia
                                              is imminent...) maybe 6 hours and then handing the jug back to the
                                              doctor so they can send some off to be analized. The chelation IV
                                              takes, oh, 3-4 hours. They did a hair analysis on me too, but the
                                              doctor trusted the above urine test more as the aluminum is a heavy
                                              metal and is firmly linked to your cells until set free by the
                                              chelating agent, EDTA. Because it is chemically linked to your
                                              cells, it isn't just floating around loose in your blood so it is
                                              hard to test for with a simple blood test. I had aluminum pretty
                                              bad, along with lead, cadmium, and arsenic. I also tested as hyper-
                                              sensitive to aluminum (sorta like an allergy).

                                              Anyway.... If you are sneezing, it means that you are getting minute
                                              particles of alum in you and your body really doesn't want any more,
                                              thanks anyway. Breathing it into your lungs is a MUCH more efficient
                                              way of getting a toxic load into your body than daubing it onto your
                                              skin. I'm not real sure where it ranks with slurping it off of paper
                                              though.

                                              Susa Glenn

                                              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, IrisNevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
                                              > Oh it's been extremely minor...only when I forgot to mark the back
                                              which is
                                              > almost never! I was tested last year extensively with blood...they
                                              say
                                              > better than hair now. Am OK....surprisingly! DeTox programs.....i
                                              can't
                                              > handle due to hypoglycemia. I have tried and black. I drink tons
                                              of water
                                              > these days though which is supposedly the cure for many ills.
                                              > thank ye,
                                              > Iris Nevins
                                              >
                                              > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >Iris...years of alum tasting is something to think about. After
                                              all,
                                              > there
                                              > is that connection between aluminum and dementia. You might want
                                              to have a
                                              > test for mineral content. I know a little about testing hair. I
                                              also
                                              > know
                                              > that every year I go for a week long thorough detoxing at the
                                              Optimum
                                              > Health Institute in San Diego and by the third day my mouth tastes
                                              like I
                                              > have an aluminum spoon in it!! It takes 2-3 days to go away. Gail <


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                                            • Steve Bryant
                                              My grandfather had Alzheimer s -- it s not a nice thing. My prayers go out to anyone who is dealing with this condition. Anyway, Mom started using copper
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Sep 20, 2003
                                                My grandfather had Alzheimer's -- it's not a nice thing. My prayers go out to anyone who is dealing with this condition. Anyway, Mom started using copper bottom cooking utensils. Later, I read that aluminum may not be that big of a factor. Cynthia
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: gretchen vansant
                                                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 8:55 AM
                                                Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Allergies




                                                <marblehead@...> wrote:

                                                Aluminum in any form is a suspected cause of dementia/Alzheimers. This hasn't yet been proven, but it's something to think about when handling alum.

                                                ae



                                                --- On Mon 09/15, sixshort < sixshort@... > wrote:
                                                From: sixshort [mailto: sixshort@...]
                                                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                                Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:29:37 -0000
                                                Subject: [Marbling] Re: Allergies





                                                -Thanks for all the replies re chemical hazards of handling paints,

                                                alum, solvents etc. I take the utmost care, always rub lanolin or

                                                barrier cream into my hands, wear dispoable latex gloves, take care

                                                not to inhale any powdered paints or alum etc. so will have to do

                                                some sleuth work to find out just what is causing the sneezing when I

                                                start working with the paints, opening jars and so on. Perhaps

                                                supermarket disposable gloves are not resistant to

                                                chemicals . . . . .

                                                I think that newcomers to marbling should be made aware of the

                                                potentially dangerous chemicals they will be using, and trained in

                                                the routine use of safety measures. Many of us have come to marbling

                                                with no previous training in such things, and only a hazy

                                                recollection of chemistry lessons at school. After a couple of years

                                                of marbling it finally dawned on me that I should take safety

                                                precautions seriously!-- Joan Ajala

                                                In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins wrote:

                                                > Wonder why they use it in pickling then? I have been tasting my

                                                papers many

                                                > years, if I forgot to mark the alumed side!

                                                > irisnevins

                                                >

                                                > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com

                                                > >Gail MacKenzie wrote:I am glad that alum, as a

                                                > hazard, came up. Ask for a safety data sheet

                                                > from your supplier. It will tell you that alum should not be

                                                inhaled, wash

                                                > off skin immediately and do not get it in your eyes. It is an

                                                irritant and

                                                > 1 scant teaspoon (you know it tastes like unsweetened lemon lime

                                                koolade)

                                                > is

                                                > a fatal dose for the average adult!!

                                                > <












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                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • irisnevins
                                                My Mothin In Law has it, she is at least one of the happy ones...she seems to be living inside her happiest memories. Still so sad. I have read that too about
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Sep 21, 2003
                                                  My Mothin In Law has it, she is at least one of the happy ones...she seems
                                                  to be living inside her happiest memories. Still so sad. I have read that
                                                  too about aluminum not being so much a worry, but one never knows what to
                                                  believe since they keep changing their minds.....maybe there should be a
                                                  study on all these studies to see why they are so inconsistent. ALuminum
                                                  pots are bad, copper pots are bad.....cast iron is bad too if you get too
                                                  much iron from cooking in it, it is bad for your heart.....mmmm....what
                                                  have we left out? Anything.....oh teflon at high temps is supposedly bad.

                                                  It's very confusing, isn't it.
                                                  Iris Nevins

                                                  Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                                  >My grandfather had Alzheimer's -- it's not a nice thing. My prayers go
                                                  out to anyone who is dealing with this condition. Anyway, Mom started
                                                  using copper bottom cooking utensils. Later, I read that aluminum may not
                                                  be that big of a factor. Cynthia
                                                  <
                                                • hamburgerbuntpapier_de
                                                  It s the mixture that does it... too much is always bad, of anything... and there s that thing about personal sensitivities... give yourself a healthy mixture
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Sep 21, 2003
                                                    It's the mixture that does it... too much is always bad, of anything...
                                                    and there's that thing about personal sensitivities... give yourself a
                                                    healthy mixture of everything and take care with things that can be and
                                                    should be avoided, and you can't go really wrong. I think.

                                                    Susanne Krause
                                                  • Gail MacKenzie
                                                    ... Rudolph Steiner of the Theosophist Society suggested gold as the best cooking pot!! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Sep 21, 2003
                                                      > My Mothin In Law has it, she is at least one of the happy ones...she seems
                                                      > to be living inside her happiest memories. Still so sad. I have read that
                                                      > too about aluminum not being so much a worry, but one never knows what to
                                                      > believe since they keep changing their minds.....maybe there should be a
                                                      > study on all these studies to see why they are so inconsistent. ALuminum
                                                      > pots are bad, copper pots are bad.....cast iron is bad too if you get too
                                                      > much iron from cooking in it, it is bad for your heart.....mmmm....what
                                                      > have we left out? Anything.....oh teflon at high temps is supposedly bad.
                                                      >
                                                      > It's very confusing, isn't it.
                                                      > Iris Nevins
                                                      Rudolph Steiner of the Theosophist Society suggested gold as the best
                                                      cooking pot!!


                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • sixshort
                                                      I would wish! I have had my best laugh for ages at the thought of my stove coated in melted gold cooking pots. This is such a great chat (read laugh) line.
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Sep 21, 2003
                                                        I would wish! I have had my best laugh for ages at the thought of my
                                                        stove coated in melted gold cooking pots. This is such a great chat
                                                        (read laugh) line. Joan Ajala.--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Gail
                                                        MacKenzie <gailmackenzi@s...> wrote:
                                                        > > My Mothin In Law has it, she is at least one of the happy
                                                        ones...she seems
                                                        > > to be living inside her happiest memories. Still so sad. I have
                                                        read that
                                                        > > too about aluminum not being so much a worry, but one never knows
                                                        what to
                                                        > > believe since they keep changing their minds.....maybe there
                                                        should be a
                                                        > > study on all these studies to see why they are so inconsistent.
                                                        ALuminum
                                                        > > pots are bad, copper pots are bad.....cast iron is bad too if you
                                                        get too
                                                        > > much iron from cooking in it, it is bad for your
                                                        heart.....mmmm....what
                                                        > > have we left out? Anything.....oh teflon at high temps is
                                                        supposedly bad.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > It's very confusing, isn't it.
                                                        > > Iris Nevins
                                                        > Rudolph Steiner of the Theosophist Society suggested gold as the
                                                        best
                                                        > cooking pot!!
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      • sixshort
                                                        ... anything... ... yourself a ... and
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Sep 21, 2003
                                                          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                                                          <hamburgerbuntpapier@t...> wrote:
                                                          > It's the mixture that does it... too much is always bad, of
                                                          anything...
                                                          > and there's that thing about personal sensitivities... give
                                                          yourself a
                                                          > healthy mixture of everything and take care with things that can be
                                                          and
                                                          > should be avoided, and you can't go really wrong. I think.
                                                          >
                                                          > Susanne Krause
                                                        • sixshort
                                                          ... anything... ... yourself a ... and
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Sep 21, 2003
                                                            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
                                                            <hamburgerbuntpapier@t...> wrote:
                                                            > It's the mixture that does it... too much is always bad, of
                                                            anything...
                                                            > and there's that thing about personal sensitivities... give
                                                            yourself a
                                                            > healthy mixture of everything and take care with things that can be
                                                            and
                                                            > should be avoided, and you can't go really wrong. I think.
                                                            >
                                                            > Susanne Krause
                                                          • sixshort
                                                            -Thanks, Susanne. Sounds as if commonsense rules the day. I was very interested in viewing your website, with its varied use of marbled papers. You mentioned
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Sep 21, 2003
                                                              -Thanks, Susanne. Sounds as if commonsense rules the day. I was very
                                                              interested in viewing your website, with its varied use of marbled
                                                              papers. You mentioned in Message 1896 that Hahnemuhle Natural Line
                                                              Ingra Paper and Bruga paper are good for marbling. As Vi Wilson
                                                              remarked, we are in a paper desert in Australia, and although we
                                                              spend heaps on various kinds of paper, can't find a fine all-purpose
                                                              paper for watercolour marbling that doesn't cost the earth. Can you
                                                              tell us more about these papers, and their availability? Joan Ajala
                                                              <hamburgerbuntpapier@t...> wrote:
                                                              > It's the mixture that does it... too much is always bad, of
                                                              anything...
                                                              > and there's that thing about personal sensitivities... give
                                                              yourself a
                                                              > healthy mixture of everything and take care with things that can be
                                                              and
                                                              > should be avoided, and you can't go really wrong. I think.
                                                              >
                                                              > Susanne Krause
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