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Re: [Marbling] Sumi Paper

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  • tkuroda
    Hi Geri I am using very thin Sumi Paper(Japanese Paper for caligraphy) for Suminagashi/Suimonga (Japanese Marbling)  You can easily get Japanese Sumi Paper
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 8, 2003
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      Hi Geri
      I am using very thin Sumi Paper(Japanese Paper for caligraphy) for
      Suminagashi/Suimonga (Japanese Marbling)
       You can easily get Japanese Sumi Paper at any caligrpher's store in
      Japan.
      But, I recommend to use paper made of Kozo(Paper mulberry) or mitsumata
      because they never melt or brake up in the water.
      Sumi Paper made of cotton or pulpwood is not suitable because they melt or
      brake up in the water.
      Please open http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/~kuroda/
      for more information on Suimonga.
      T.Kuroda
      tkuroda@...


      Original Message -----
      From: "Geri Burgert" <gburgert@...>
      To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 5:23 AM
      Subject: [Marbling] Sumi Paper


      > I'm wondering if anyone uses Sumi painting paper for marbling?
      >
      > Thanks! Geri
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
    • Geri Burgert
      Thanks for the help! Geri [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 8, 2003
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        Thanks for the help!
        Geri



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Franklyn Smith
        I have been using Japanese paper for many years for marbling. Each does behave differently but I have never had a problem with the paper disintegrating - not
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 8, 2003
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          I have been using Japanese paper for many years for marbling. Each does
          behave differently but I have never had a problem with the paper
          disintegrating - not even very thin papers, other than repair tissue.
          You do have to be careful in picking up off the size. Don't use just
          finger tips. Pick up with the whole hand or even the back of the hand.

          Occasionally you will find a paper that resists the colour in spots.
          This is usually momigami and only some colours do it.

          The better the paper the better the result. The rolls of cheap sumi
          paper will not result in wonderful ebru paper but are good for
          suminagashi. Japanese hand made papers are so beautiful themselves that
          you can get very beautiful paper.

          Shelagh Smith

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Guffey [mailto:dguff@...]
          Sent: March 8, 2003 12:59 AM
          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Marbling] Sumi Paper

          > I'm wondering if anyone uses Sumi painting paper for marbling?
          >
          > Thanks! Geri

          Yes,

          I've marbled on Sumi paper (using acrylics) and you must work very
          quickly.
          Pulling the paper up as quickly, not letting it sit for any time at all
          or
          it will just dissolve.

          Although I've never tried it, you might iron the Sumi paper onto
          freezer
          paper first to give it added strength before marbling. I've seen this
          hint
          used to put thin paper
          through your printer, so I assume the freezer paper is removable
          afterwards.

          Good luck,

          d. guffey









          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • J Dolphin
          Welcome crystal! Although you can t attach a file directly to your post--you Can upload at the group home site. Go into the file menu--and just follow the
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 8, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Welcome crystal!
            Although you can't attach a file directly to your post--you Can upload
            at the group home site. Go into the file menu--and just follow the
            instructions and your image will be stored there for everyone to see.
            Jill
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "crystalmirror2002" <crystalmirror2002@...>
            To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 5:50 AM
            Subject: [Marbling] Re: Sumi Paper


            > Hi all -
            >
            > I just found this group 2 days ago and am very happy to find such
            > a virtual gathering of marblers. I am also very impressed to see
            > so many highly revered marblers having the willingness and
            > patience to share advice with beginning and experenced
            > marblers alike! I have been marbling for 20 years, not full time,
            > but in episodic, manic spurts which have yielded thousands of
            > sheets over the years. I always discover new things every single
            > time I marble and that is one of the experiences i love about this
            > artform.
            >
            > I have done a lot of marbling with sumi paper; one reason i really
            > like to use it is that it does not require alum (as is true also with
            > other papers that are unsized) .
            >
            > i like to use the sumi papers to pick up residual patterns that
            > float on the surface after i have removed a piece of paper that
            > didnt cover the whole tray. you know , those times when you
            > have such a beautiful, ephemeral, swirly pattern left on the size
            > that it just breaks your heart to scrape it off with newspaper and
            > you dont have any small sheets of paper alumed to pick it up
            > with? well that is usually when i use the sumi paper...since it
            > doesnt need to be alumed, and one can not plan the
            > serendipitious effects that can occur when the colors left at the
            > edges of the bath float into *beauty*. i keep several
            > sizes/weights/colors of sumi paper on hand for just this
            > purpose.
            >
            > i have also used the sumi papers as the 'primary target' for my
            > marbling, and even over marbled them many times. one of my
            > all time favorite marbles is a 15"x20" sheet of sumi paper which
            > is overmarbled twice. if i knew how to attach a jpg file to this
            > message i would put it out here for you to see. (is that even
            > possible?)
            >
            > I marble with even the most thin and fragile of sumi papers, and
            > to lift it off the size i simply put a piece of newspaper down
            > directly on the sumi paper (which does indeed get completely
            > saturated with the carrageenan as soon as you lay it down on
            > the size) and the sumi paper adheres to the newspaper, which
            > of course is plently strong enough to hold the wet sumi paper,
            > and strong enough also to withstand the rinsing process. i
            > leave the sumi paper on the newspaper until it is completely dry,
            > and then peel it off.
            >
            > occasionally, there may be some newpaper ink imprint left on
            > the sumi paper, but of the hundreds of sheets i have marbled
            > this way, i think maybe only 2% have had that ink stain problem.
            > i try to use newspaper pages with low ink loads to minimize the
            > potential for staining.
            >
            > even if i wouldnt use an ink stained paper in a piece of art, i find
            > that none of my friends object to having their birthday gifts
            > wrapped in a paper with a little newspapery spot on it. (though
            > certainly these days the messages that could be left from any
            > newspaper could be too depressing and might render a paper
            > ineligible for gift giving !) :>)
            >
            > pray for peace!
            > - Rain
            >
            > PS, i realize brevity is probably appreciated in these messages,
            > and apologize for the overblabbling my 1am cup of tea has
            > induced...
            >
            > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Geri Burgert <gburgert@o...>
            > wrote:
            > > I'm wondering if anyone uses Sumi painting paper for
            > marbling?
            > >
            > > Thanks! Geri
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • crystalmirror2002
            Hi all - I just found this group 2 days ago and am very happy to find such a virtual gathering of marblers. I am also very impressed to see so many highly
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 9, 2003
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              Hi all -

              I just found this group 2 days ago and am very happy to find such
              a virtual gathering of marblers. I am also very impressed to see
              so many highly revered marblers having the willingness and
              patience to share advice with beginning and experenced
              marblers alike! I have been marbling for 20 years, not full time,
              but in episodic, manic spurts which have yielded thousands of
              sheets over the years. I always discover new things every single
              time I marble and that is one of the experiences i love about this
              artform.

              I have done a lot of marbling with sumi paper; one reason i really
              like to use it is that it does not require alum (as is true also with
              other papers that are unsized) .

              i like to use the sumi papers to pick up residual patterns that
              float on the surface after i have removed a piece of paper that
              didnt cover the whole tray. you know , those times when you
              have such a beautiful, ephemeral, swirly pattern left on the size
              that it just breaks your heart to scrape it off with newspaper and
              you dont have any small sheets of paper alumed to pick it up
              with? well that is usually when i use the sumi paper...since it
              doesnt need to be alumed, and one can not plan the
              serendipitious effects that can occur when the colors left at the
              edges of the bath float into *beauty*. i keep several
              sizes/weights/colors of sumi paper on hand for just this
              purpose.

              i have also used the sumi papers as the 'primary target' for my
              marbling, and even over marbled them many times. one of my
              all time favorite marbles is a 15"x20" sheet of sumi paper which
              is overmarbled twice. if i knew how to attach a jpg file to this
              message i would put it out here for you to see. (is that even
              possible?)

              I marble with even the most thin and fragile of sumi papers, and
              to lift it off the size i simply put a piece of newspaper down
              directly on the sumi paper (which does indeed get completely
              saturated with the carrageenan as soon as you lay it down on
              the size) and the sumi paper adheres to the newspaper, which
              of course is plently strong enough to hold the wet sumi paper,
              and strong enough also to withstand the rinsing process. i
              leave the sumi paper on the newspaper until it is completely dry,
              and then peel it off.

              occasionally, there may be some newpaper ink imprint left on
              the sumi paper, but of the hundreds of sheets i have marbled
              this way, i think maybe only 2% have had that ink stain problem.
              i try to use newspaper pages with low ink loads to minimize the
              potential for staining.

              even if i wouldnt use an ink stained paper in a piece of art, i find
              that none of my friends object to having their birthday gifts
              wrapped in a paper with a little newspapery spot on it. (though
              certainly these days the messages that could be left from any
              newspaper could be too depressing and might render a paper
              ineligible for gift giving !) :>)

              pray for peace!
              - Rain

              PS, i realize brevity is probably appreciated in these messages,
              and apologize for the overblabbling my 1am cup of tea has
              induced...

              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Geri Burgert <gburgert@o...>
              wrote:
              > I'm wondering if anyone uses Sumi painting paper for
              marbling?
              >
              > Thanks! Geri
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Franklyn Smith
              Hi Rain, What a good idea, using newsprint to pick up the Japanese paper! Have you considered substituting unprinted newsprint paper which is usually available
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 9, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Rain,

                What a good idea, using newsprint to pick up the Japanese paper! Have
                you considered substituting unprinted newsprint paper which is usually
                available at art supply stores and certainly from paper distributors.
                It's pretty cheap and would eliminate the problem of the offset of the
                printers' ink .

                Shelagh Smith

                -----Original Message-----
                From: crystalmirror2002 [mailto:crystalmirror2002@...]
                Sent: March 9, 2003 5:50 AM
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Marbling] Re: Sumi Paper

                Hi all -

                I just found this group 2 days ago and am very happy to find such
                a virtual gathering of marblers. I am also very impressed to see
                so many highly revered marblers having the willingness and
                patience to share advice with beginning and experenced
                marblers alike! I have been marbling for 20 years, not full time,
                but in episodic, manic spurts which have yielded thousands of
                sheets over the years. I always discover new things every single
                time I marble and that is one of the experiences i love about this
                artform.

                I have done a lot of marbling with sumi paper; one reason i really
                like to use it is that it does not require alum (as is true also with
                other papers that are unsized) .

                i like to use the sumi papers to pick up residual patterns that
                float on the surface after i have removed a piece of paper that
                didnt cover the whole tray. you know , those times when you
                have such a beautiful, ephemeral, swirly pattern left on the size
                that it just breaks your heart to scrape it off with newspaper and
                you dont have any small sheets of paper alumed to pick it up
                with? well that is usually when i use the sumi paper...since it
                doesnt need to be alumed, and one can not plan the
                serendipitious effects that can occur when the colors left at the
                edges of the bath float into *beauty*. i keep several
                sizes/weights/colors of sumi paper on hand for just this
                purpose.

                i have also used the sumi papers as the 'primary target' for my
                marbling, and even over marbled them many times. one of my
                all time favorite marbles is a 15"x20" sheet of sumi paper which
                is overmarbled twice. if i knew how to attach a jpg file to this
                message i would put it out here for you to see. (is that even
                possible?)

                I marble with even the most thin and fragile of sumi papers, and
                to lift it off the size i simply put a piece of newspaper down
                directly on the sumi paper (which does indeed get completely
                saturated with the carrageenan as soon as you lay it down on
                the size) and the sumi paper adheres to the newspaper, which
                of course is plently strong enough to hold the wet sumi paper,
                and strong enough also to withstand the rinsing process. i
                leave the sumi paper on the newspaper until it is completely dry,
                and then peel it off.

                occasionally, there may be some newpaper ink imprint left on
                the sumi paper, but of the hundreds of sheets i have marbled
                this way, i think maybe only 2% have had that ink stain problem.
                i try to use newspaper pages with low ink loads to minimize the
                potential for staining.

                even if i wouldnt use an ink stained paper in a piece of art, i find
                that none of my friends object to having their birthday gifts
                wrapped in a paper with a little newspapery spot on it. (though
                certainly these days the messages that could be left from any
                newspaper could be too depressing and might render a paper
                ineligible for gift giving !) :>)

                pray for peace!
                - Rain

                PS, i realize brevity is probably appreciated in these messages,
                and apologize for the overblabbling my 1am cup of tea has
                induced...

                --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Geri Burgert <gburgert@o...>
                wrote:
                > I'm wondering if anyone uses Sumi painting paper for
                marbling?
                >
                > Thanks! Geri
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • Lavinia Adler
                Dear Crystalmirror , Don t apologize for overblabbing . Your message was very informative. Thanks, and welcome to the community. Lavinia ...
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 9, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear "Crystalmirror",
                  Don't apologize for "overblabbing". Your message was very informative.
                  Thanks, and welcome to the community.

                  Lavinia

                  >
                  > I have done a lot of marbling with sumi paper; one reason i really
                  > like to use it is that it does not require alum (as is true also
                  > with
                  > other papers that are unsized) ....

                  > PS, i realize brevity is probably appreciated in these messages,
                  > and apologize for the overblabbling my 1am cup of tea has
                  > induced...


                  ________________________________________________________________
                  Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
                  Only $9.95 per month!
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                • mpmh60201
                  As in traditional suminagashi: use a wooden dowel at the short end of the paper resting in the tray of size. Support the paper from underneath so that the end
                  Message 8 of 11 , Mar 12, 2003
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                    As in traditional suminagashi: use a wooden dowel at the short end of
                    the paper resting in the tray of size. Support the paper from
                    underneath so that the end wraps around the dowel a bit. Then lift
                    straight up and out of the tray. If the paper is delicate, DO NOT
                    TOUCH the paper on the dowel with your fingers! It will rip away.
                    Before using, cut the dowel just shorter than the width of the tray so
                    that your fingers can hold the dowel and not touch the paper. Also
                    make sure the width of the paper is shorter than the length of the
                    dowel. I then transfer papers to a blotter for drying or, if strong
                    enough, transfer them to a large slant board over my sinks to drain
                    and dry. If papers are too heavy to wrap around the dowel from beneath
                    the surface of the size, slide a wooden yardstick underneath for
                    support instead of a dowel. This will help distribute the w
                  • Ann Lederer
                    you can also get left over rolls of newsprint at many newspapers for a couple of dollars. Franklyn Smith wrote:Hi Rain, What a good idea,
                    Message 9 of 11 , Mar 14, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      you can also get left over rolls of newsprint at many newspapers for a couple of dollars.
                      Franklyn Smith <bembo@...> wrote:Hi Rain,

                      What a good idea, using newsprint to pick up the Japanese paper! Have
                      you considered substituting unprinted newsprint paper which is usually
                      available at art supply stores and certainly from paper distributors.
                      It's pretty cheap and would eliminate the problem of the offset of the
                      printers' ink .

                      Shelagh Smith

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: crystalmirror2002 [mailto:crystalmirror2002@...]
                      Sent: March 9, 2003 5:50 AM
                      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [Marbling] Re: Sumi Paper

                      Hi all -

                      I just found this group 2 days ago and am very happy to find such
                      a virtual gathering of marblers. I am also very impressed to see
                      so many highly revered marblers having the willingness and
                      patience to share advice with beginning and experenced
                      marblers alike! I have been marbling for 20 years, not full time,
                      but in episodic, manic spurts which have yielded thousands of
                      sheets over the years. I always discover new things every single
                      time I marble and that is one of the experiences i love about this
                      artform.

                      I have done a lot of marbling with sumi paper; one reason i really
                      like to use it is that it does not require alum (as is true also with
                      other papers that are unsized) .

                      i like to use the sumi papers to pick up residual patterns that
                      float on the surface after i have removed a piece of paper that
                      didnt cover the whole tray. you know , those times when you
                      have such a beautiful, ephemeral, swirly pattern left on the size
                      that it just breaks your heart to scrape it off with newspaper and
                      you dont have any small sheets of paper alumed to pick it up
                      with? well that is usually when i use the sumi paper...since it
                      doesnt need to be alumed, and one can not plan the
                      serendipitious effects that can occur when the colors left at the
                      edges of the bath float into *beauty*. i keep several
                      sizes/weights/colors of sumi paper on hand for just this
                      purpose.

                      i have also used the sumi papers as the 'primary target' for my
                      marbling, and even over marbled them many times. one of my
                      all time favorite marbles is a 15"x20" sheet of sumi paper which
                      is overmarbled twice. if i knew how to attach a jpg file to this
                      message i would put it out here for you to see. (is that even
                      possible?)

                      I marble with even the most thin and fragile of sumi papers, and
                      to lift it off the size i simply put a piece of newspaper down
                      directly on the sumi paper (which does indeed get completely
                      saturated with the carrageenan as soon as you lay it down on
                      the size) and the sumi paper adheres to the newspaper, which
                      of course is plently strong enough to hold the wet sumi paper,
                      and strong enough also to withstand the rinsing process. i
                      leave the sumi paper on the newspaper until it is completely dry,
                      and then peel it off.

                      occasionally, there may be some newpaper ink imprint left on
                      the sumi paper, but of the hundreds of sheets i have marbled
                      this way, i think maybe only 2% have had that ink stain problem.
                      i try to use newspaper pages with low ink loads to minimize the
                      potential for staining.

                      even if i wouldnt use an ink stained paper in a piece of art, i find
                      that none of my friends object to having their birthday gifts
                      wrapped in a paper with a little newspapery spot on it. (though
                      certainly these days the messages that could be left from any
                      newspaper could be too depressing and might render a paper
                      ineligible for gift giving !) :>)

                      pray for peace!
                      - Rain

                      PS, i realize brevity is probably appreciated in these messages,
                      and apologize for the overblabbling my 1am cup of tea has
                      induced...

                      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Geri Burgert <gburgert@o...>
                      wrote:
                      > I'm wondering if anyone uses Sumi painting paper for
                      marbling?
                      >
                      > Thanks! Geri
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




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