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Sumi Paper

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  • Geri Burgert
    I m wondering if anyone uses Sumi painting paper for marbling? Thanks! Geri [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 7, 2003
      I'm wondering if anyone uses Sumi painting paper for marbling?

      Thanks! Geri



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Guffey
      ... Yes, I ve marbled on Sumi paper (using acrylics) and you must work very quickly. Pulling the paper up as quickly, not letting it sit for any time at all or
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 7, 2003
        > I'm wondering if anyone uses Sumi painting paper for marbling?
        >
        > Thanks! Geri

        Yes,

        I've marbled on Sumi paper (using acrylics) and you must work very quickly.
        Pulling the paper up as quickly, not letting it sit for any time at all or
        it will just dissolve.

        Although I've never tried it, you might iron the Sumi paper onto freezer
        paper first to give it added strength before marbling. I've seen this hint
        used to put thin paper
        through your printer, so I assume the freezer paper is removable afterwards.

        Good luck,

        d. guffey
      • tkuroda
        Hi Geri I am using very thin Sumi Paper(Japanese Paper for caligraphy) for Suminagashi/Suimonga (Japanese Marbling)  You can easily get Japanese Sumi Paper
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 8, 2003
          Hi Geri
          I am using very thin Sumi Paper(Japanese Paper for caligraphy) for
          Suminagashi/Suimonga (Japanese Marbling)
           You can easily get Japanese Sumi Paper at any caligrpher's store in
          Japan.
          But, I recommend to use paper made of Kozo(Paper mulberry) or mitsumata
          because they never melt or brake up in the water.
          Sumi Paper made of cotton or pulpwood is not suitable because they melt or
          brake up in the water.
          Please open http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/~kuroda/
          for more information on Suimonga.
          T.Kuroda
          tkuroda@...


          Original Message -----
          From: "Geri Burgert" <gburgert@...>
          To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 5:23 AM
          Subject: [Marbling] Sumi Paper


          > I'm wondering if anyone uses Sumi painting paper for marbling?
          >
          > Thanks! Geri
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
        • Geri Burgert
          Thanks for the help! Geri [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 8, 2003
            Thanks for the help!
            Geri



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Franklyn Smith
            I have been using Japanese paper for many years for marbling. Each does behave differently but I have never had a problem with the paper disintegrating - not
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 8, 2003
              I have been using Japanese paper for many years for marbling. Each does
              behave differently but I have never had a problem with the paper
              disintegrating - not even very thin papers, other than repair tissue.
              You do have to be careful in picking up off the size. Don't use just
              finger tips. Pick up with the whole hand or even the back of the hand.

              Occasionally you will find a paper that resists the colour in spots.
              This is usually momigami and only some colours do it.

              The better the paper the better the result. The rolls of cheap sumi
              paper will not result in wonderful ebru paper but are good for
              suminagashi. Japanese hand made papers are so beautiful themselves that
              you can get very beautiful paper.

              Shelagh Smith

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Guffey [mailto:dguff@...]
              Sent: March 8, 2003 12:59 AM
              To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Marbling] Sumi Paper

              > I'm wondering if anyone uses Sumi painting paper for marbling?
              >
              > Thanks! Geri

              Yes,

              I've marbled on Sumi paper (using acrylics) and you must work very
              quickly.
              Pulling the paper up as quickly, not letting it sit for any time at all
              or
              it will just dissolve.

              Although I've never tried it, you might iron the Sumi paper onto
              freezer
              paper first to give it added strength before marbling. I've seen this
              hint
              used to put thin paper
              through your printer, so I assume the freezer paper is removable
              afterwards.

              Good luck,

              d. guffey









              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • J Dolphin
              Welcome crystal! Although you can t attach a file directly to your post--you Can upload at the group home site. Go into the file menu--and just follow the
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 8, 2003
                Welcome crystal!
                Although you can't attach a file directly to your post--you Can upload
                at the group home site. Go into the file menu--and just follow the
                instructions and your image will be stored there for everyone to see.
                Jill
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "crystalmirror2002" <crystalmirror2002@...>
                To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 5:50 AM
                Subject: [Marbling] Re: Sumi Paper


                > Hi all -
                >
                > I just found this group 2 days ago and am very happy to find such
                > a virtual gathering of marblers. I am also very impressed to see
                > so many highly revered marblers having the willingness and
                > patience to share advice with beginning and experenced
                > marblers alike! I have been marbling for 20 years, not full time,
                > but in episodic, manic spurts which have yielded thousands of
                > sheets over the years. I always discover new things every single
                > time I marble and that is one of the experiences i love about this
                > artform.
                >
                > I have done a lot of marbling with sumi paper; one reason i really
                > like to use it is that it does not require alum (as is true also with
                > other papers that are unsized) .
                >
                > i like to use the sumi papers to pick up residual patterns that
                > float on the surface after i have removed a piece of paper that
                > didnt cover the whole tray. you know , those times when you
                > have such a beautiful, ephemeral, swirly pattern left on the size
                > that it just breaks your heart to scrape it off with newspaper and
                > you dont have any small sheets of paper alumed to pick it up
                > with? well that is usually when i use the sumi paper...since it
                > doesnt need to be alumed, and one can not plan the
                > serendipitious effects that can occur when the colors left at the
                > edges of the bath float into *beauty*. i keep several
                > sizes/weights/colors of sumi paper on hand for just this
                > purpose.
                >
                > i have also used the sumi papers as the 'primary target' for my
                > marbling, and even over marbled them many times. one of my
                > all time favorite marbles is a 15"x20" sheet of sumi paper which
                > is overmarbled twice. if i knew how to attach a jpg file to this
                > message i would put it out here for you to see. (is that even
                > possible?)
                >
                > I marble with even the most thin and fragile of sumi papers, and
                > to lift it off the size i simply put a piece of newspaper down
                > directly on the sumi paper (which does indeed get completely
                > saturated with the carrageenan as soon as you lay it down on
                > the size) and the sumi paper adheres to the newspaper, which
                > of course is plently strong enough to hold the wet sumi paper,
                > and strong enough also to withstand the rinsing process. i
                > leave the sumi paper on the newspaper until it is completely dry,
                > and then peel it off.
                >
                > occasionally, there may be some newpaper ink imprint left on
                > the sumi paper, but of the hundreds of sheets i have marbled
                > this way, i think maybe only 2% have had that ink stain problem.
                > i try to use newspaper pages with low ink loads to minimize the
                > potential for staining.
                >
                > even if i wouldnt use an ink stained paper in a piece of art, i find
                > that none of my friends object to having their birthday gifts
                > wrapped in a paper with a little newspapery spot on it. (though
                > certainly these days the messages that could be left from any
                > newspaper could be too depressing and might render a paper
                > ineligible for gift giving !) :>)
                >
                > pray for peace!
                > - Rain
                >
                > PS, i realize brevity is probably appreciated in these messages,
                > and apologize for the overblabbling my 1am cup of tea has
                > induced...
                >
                > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Geri Burgert <gburgert@o...>
                > wrote:
                > > I'm wondering if anyone uses Sumi painting paper for
                > marbling?
                > >
                > > Thanks! Geri
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
              • crystalmirror2002
                Hi all - I just found this group 2 days ago and am very happy to find such a virtual gathering of marblers. I am also very impressed to see so many highly
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 9, 2003
                  Hi all -

                  I just found this group 2 days ago and am very happy to find such
                  a virtual gathering of marblers. I am also very impressed to see
                  so many highly revered marblers having the willingness and
                  patience to share advice with beginning and experenced
                  marblers alike! I have been marbling for 20 years, not full time,
                  but in episodic, manic spurts which have yielded thousands of
                  sheets over the years. I always discover new things every single
                  time I marble and that is one of the experiences i love about this
                  artform.

                  I have done a lot of marbling with sumi paper; one reason i really
                  like to use it is that it does not require alum (as is true also with
                  other papers that are unsized) .

                  i like to use the sumi papers to pick up residual patterns that
                  float on the surface after i have removed a piece of paper that
                  didnt cover the whole tray. you know , those times when you
                  have such a beautiful, ephemeral, swirly pattern left on the size
                  that it just breaks your heart to scrape it off with newspaper and
                  you dont have any small sheets of paper alumed to pick it up
                  with? well that is usually when i use the sumi paper...since it
                  doesnt need to be alumed, and one can not plan the
                  serendipitious effects that can occur when the colors left at the
                  edges of the bath float into *beauty*. i keep several
                  sizes/weights/colors of sumi paper on hand for just this
                  purpose.

                  i have also used the sumi papers as the 'primary target' for my
                  marbling, and even over marbled them many times. one of my
                  all time favorite marbles is a 15"x20" sheet of sumi paper which
                  is overmarbled twice. if i knew how to attach a jpg file to this
                  message i would put it out here for you to see. (is that even
                  possible?)

                  I marble with even the most thin and fragile of sumi papers, and
                  to lift it off the size i simply put a piece of newspaper down
                  directly on the sumi paper (which does indeed get completely
                  saturated with the carrageenan as soon as you lay it down on
                  the size) and the sumi paper adheres to the newspaper, which
                  of course is plently strong enough to hold the wet sumi paper,
                  and strong enough also to withstand the rinsing process. i
                  leave the sumi paper on the newspaper until it is completely dry,
                  and then peel it off.

                  occasionally, there may be some newpaper ink imprint left on
                  the sumi paper, but of the hundreds of sheets i have marbled
                  this way, i think maybe only 2% have had that ink stain problem.
                  i try to use newspaper pages with low ink loads to minimize the
                  potential for staining.

                  even if i wouldnt use an ink stained paper in a piece of art, i find
                  that none of my friends object to having their birthday gifts
                  wrapped in a paper with a little newspapery spot on it. (though
                  certainly these days the messages that could be left from any
                  newspaper could be too depressing and might render a paper
                  ineligible for gift giving !) :>)

                  pray for peace!
                  - Rain

                  PS, i realize brevity is probably appreciated in these messages,
                  and apologize for the overblabbling my 1am cup of tea has
                  induced...

                  --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Geri Burgert <gburgert@o...>
                  wrote:
                  > I'm wondering if anyone uses Sumi painting paper for
                  marbling?
                  >
                  > Thanks! Geri
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Franklyn Smith
                  Hi Rain, What a good idea, using newsprint to pick up the Japanese paper! Have you considered substituting unprinted newsprint paper which is usually available
                  Message 8 of 11 , Mar 9, 2003
                    Hi Rain,

                    What a good idea, using newsprint to pick up the Japanese paper! Have
                    you considered substituting unprinted newsprint paper which is usually
                    available at art supply stores and certainly from paper distributors.
                    It's pretty cheap and would eliminate the problem of the offset of the
                    printers' ink .

                    Shelagh Smith

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: crystalmirror2002 [mailto:crystalmirror2002@...]
                    Sent: March 9, 2003 5:50 AM
                    To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [Marbling] Re: Sumi Paper

                    Hi all -

                    I just found this group 2 days ago and am very happy to find such
                    a virtual gathering of marblers. I am also very impressed to see
                    so many highly revered marblers having the willingness and
                    patience to share advice with beginning and experenced
                    marblers alike! I have been marbling for 20 years, not full time,
                    but in episodic, manic spurts which have yielded thousands of
                    sheets over the years. I always discover new things every single
                    time I marble and that is one of the experiences i love about this
                    artform.

                    I have done a lot of marbling with sumi paper; one reason i really
                    like to use it is that it does not require alum (as is true also with
                    other papers that are unsized) .

                    i like to use the sumi papers to pick up residual patterns that
                    float on the surface after i have removed a piece of paper that
                    didnt cover the whole tray. you know , those times when you
                    have such a beautiful, ephemeral, swirly pattern left on the size
                    that it just breaks your heart to scrape it off with newspaper and
                    you dont have any small sheets of paper alumed to pick it up
                    with? well that is usually when i use the sumi paper...since it
                    doesnt need to be alumed, and one can not plan the
                    serendipitious effects that can occur when the colors left at the
                    edges of the bath float into *beauty*. i keep several
                    sizes/weights/colors of sumi paper on hand for just this
                    purpose.

                    i have also used the sumi papers as the 'primary target' for my
                    marbling, and even over marbled them many times. one of my
                    all time favorite marbles is a 15"x20" sheet of sumi paper which
                    is overmarbled twice. if i knew how to attach a jpg file to this
                    message i would put it out here for you to see. (is that even
                    possible?)

                    I marble with even the most thin and fragile of sumi papers, and
                    to lift it off the size i simply put a piece of newspaper down
                    directly on the sumi paper (which does indeed get completely
                    saturated with the carrageenan as soon as you lay it down on
                    the size) and the sumi paper adheres to the newspaper, which
                    of course is plently strong enough to hold the wet sumi paper,
                    and strong enough also to withstand the rinsing process. i
                    leave the sumi paper on the newspaper until it is completely dry,
                    and then peel it off.

                    occasionally, there may be some newpaper ink imprint left on
                    the sumi paper, but of the hundreds of sheets i have marbled
                    this way, i think maybe only 2% have had that ink stain problem.
                    i try to use newspaper pages with low ink loads to minimize the
                    potential for staining.

                    even if i wouldnt use an ink stained paper in a piece of art, i find
                    that none of my friends object to having their birthday gifts
                    wrapped in a paper with a little newspapery spot on it. (though
                    certainly these days the messages that could be left from any
                    newspaper could be too depressing and might render a paper
                    ineligible for gift giving !) :>)

                    pray for peace!
                    - Rain

                    PS, i realize brevity is probably appreciated in these messages,
                    and apologize for the overblabbling my 1am cup of tea has
                    induced...

                    --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Geri Burgert <gburgert@o...>
                    wrote:
                    > I'm wondering if anyone uses Sumi painting paper for
                    marbling?
                    >
                    > Thanks! Geri
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • Lavinia Adler
                    Dear Crystalmirror , Don t apologize for overblabbing . Your message was very informative. Thanks, and welcome to the community. Lavinia ...
                    Message 9 of 11 , Mar 9, 2003
                      Dear "Crystalmirror",
                      Don't apologize for "overblabbing". Your message was very informative.
                      Thanks, and welcome to the community.

                      Lavinia

                      >
                      > I have done a lot of marbling with sumi paper; one reason i really
                      > like to use it is that it does not require alum (as is true also
                      > with
                      > other papers that are unsized) ....

                      > PS, i realize brevity is probably appreciated in these messages,
                      > and apologize for the overblabbling my 1am cup of tea has
                      > induced...


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                    • mpmh60201
                      As in traditional suminagashi: use a wooden dowel at the short end of the paper resting in the tray of size. Support the paper from underneath so that the end
                      Message 10 of 11 , Mar 12, 2003
                        As in traditional suminagashi: use a wooden dowel at the short end of
                        the paper resting in the tray of size. Support the paper from
                        underneath so that the end wraps around the dowel a bit. Then lift
                        straight up and out of the tray. If the paper is delicate, DO NOT
                        TOUCH the paper on the dowel with your fingers! It will rip away.
                        Before using, cut the dowel just shorter than the width of the tray so
                        that your fingers can hold the dowel and not touch the paper. Also
                        make sure the width of the paper is shorter than the length of the
                        dowel. I then transfer papers to a blotter for drying or, if strong
                        enough, transfer them to a large slant board over my sinks to drain
                        and dry. If papers are too heavy to wrap around the dowel from beneath
                        the surface of the size, slide a wooden yardstick underneath for
                        support instead of a dowel. This will help distribute the w
                      • Ann Lederer
                        you can also get left over rolls of newsprint at many newspapers for a couple of dollars. Franklyn Smith wrote:Hi Rain, What a good idea,
                        Message 11 of 11 , Mar 14, 2003
                          you can also get left over rolls of newsprint at many newspapers for a couple of dollars.
                          Franklyn Smith <bembo@...> wrote:Hi Rain,

                          What a good idea, using newsprint to pick up the Japanese paper! Have
                          you considered substituting unprinted newsprint paper which is usually
                          available at art supply stores and certainly from paper distributors.
                          It's pretty cheap and would eliminate the problem of the offset of the
                          printers' ink .

                          Shelagh Smith

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: crystalmirror2002 [mailto:crystalmirror2002@...]
                          Sent: March 9, 2003 5:50 AM
                          To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [Marbling] Re: Sumi Paper

                          Hi all -

                          I just found this group 2 days ago and am very happy to find such
                          a virtual gathering of marblers. I am also very impressed to see
                          so many highly revered marblers having the willingness and
                          patience to share advice with beginning and experenced
                          marblers alike! I have been marbling for 20 years, not full time,
                          but in episodic, manic spurts which have yielded thousands of
                          sheets over the years. I always discover new things every single
                          time I marble and that is one of the experiences i love about this
                          artform.

                          I have done a lot of marbling with sumi paper; one reason i really
                          like to use it is that it does not require alum (as is true also with
                          other papers that are unsized) .

                          i like to use the sumi papers to pick up residual patterns that
                          float on the surface after i have removed a piece of paper that
                          didnt cover the whole tray. you know , those times when you
                          have such a beautiful, ephemeral, swirly pattern left on the size
                          that it just breaks your heart to scrape it off with newspaper and
                          you dont have any small sheets of paper alumed to pick it up
                          with? well that is usually when i use the sumi paper...since it
                          doesnt need to be alumed, and one can not plan the
                          serendipitious effects that can occur when the colors left at the
                          edges of the bath float into *beauty*. i keep several
                          sizes/weights/colors of sumi paper on hand for just this
                          purpose.

                          i have also used the sumi papers as the 'primary target' for my
                          marbling, and even over marbled them many times. one of my
                          all time favorite marbles is a 15"x20" sheet of sumi paper which
                          is overmarbled twice. if i knew how to attach a jpg file to this
                          message i would put it out here for you to see. (is that even
                          possible?)

                          I marble with even the most thin and fragile of sumi papers, and
                          to lift it off the size i simply put a piece of newspaper down
                          directly on the sumi paper (which does indeed get completely
                          saturated with the carrageenan as soon as you lay it down on
                          the size) and the sumi paper adheres to the newspaper, which
                          of course is plently strong enough to hold the wet sumi paper,
                          and strong enough also to withstand the rinsing process. i
                          leave the sumi paper on the newspaper until it is completely dry,
                          and then peel it off.

                          occasionally, there may be some newpaper ink imprint left on
                          the sumi paper, but of the hundreds of sheets i have marbled
                          this way, i think maybe only 2% have had that ink stain problem.
                          i try to use newspaper pages with low ink loads to minimize the
                          potential for staining.

                          even if i wouldnt use an ink stained paper in a piece of art, i find
                          that none of my friends object to having their birthday gifts
                          wrapped in a paper with a little newspapery spot on it. (though
                          certainly these days the messages that could be left from any
                          newspaper could be too depressing and might render a paper
                          ineligible for gift giving !) :>)

                          pray for peace!
                          - Rain

                          PS, i realize brevity is probably appreciated in these messages,
                          and apologize for the overblabbling my 1am cup of tea has
                          induced...

                          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Geri Burgert <gburgert@o...>
                          wrote:
                          > I'm wondering if anyone uses Sumi painting paper for
                          marbling?
                          >
                          > Thanks! Geri
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




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