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[Marbling] paint rinses off

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  • IrisNevins
    PS....I sell alum, as do other suppliers. On many acrylics you do not need alum much of the time...it is different for each kind. Marbling paint is not
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 5, 2003
      PS....I sell alum, as do other suppliers.

      On many acrylics you do not need alum much of the time...it is different
      for each kind. Marbling "paint" is not generic. Each brand will work very
      differently.

      IrisNevins
      www.marblingpaper.com
    • susaglenn
      Let me fine tune the suggested formula below: Start with 50% GAC 900 and 50% alcohol (70%). Try using 2 parts of this mix with 1 part of the Ceramcoat paint.
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 5, 2003
        Let me fine tune the suggested formula below: Start with 50% GAC 900
        and 50% alcohol (70%). Try using 2 parts of this mix with 1 part of
        the Ceramcoat paint. You might want to thin all of your paints down
        to 1 part paint and 3 parts of the 50-50 mix. It is up to you. I
        think that I was marbling on colored fabric when I was using the 33%
        paint mix and if you are marbling on white paper, the 25% paint may
        work just fine and be easier.

        Susa Glenn


        --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "susaglenn" <sglenn@c...> wrote:
        > Hi, I've used Ceramcoat paints with some good successes on fabric.
        I
        > used 1/3 Ceramcoat, 1/3 Golden Acrylics GAC 900 (fabric medium)
        and
        > 1/3 alcohol (70%). The alcohol is a double sided issue here. It
        > makes the acrylic paint pigment moil around on the surface of the
        > size when dropped so it doesn't sink and it also will react to
        some
        > paint pigments so that the mixture gloms in the jar and is a
        > hopeless mess. I think the paint tech people said that organic
        > (inorganic?) pigments react to alcohol. Try Ceramcoat Bright Red,
        > Bright Yellow, and now I've forgotten which blue. Test several.
        The
        > red blues are very agressive on their spread & the green blues
        glom
        > from the alcohol. I finally got one to work, I just can't remember
        > which. Their white is nice. Their black is nice. Actually, their
        > gold (Emperor's Gold, not the others) worked very well, was great
        > with the alcohol, & printed on white paper. Amazing. I alumed my
        > paper; I've forgotten the alum strength.
        >
        > This mix takes longer to fully expand when dropped on the size so
        > there were times that I would cover my tray for a minute to keep
        the
        > paint from drying & give the spread more time. As long as I let
        the
        > last paint spread, I could stack up more paint on the size. I
        guess
        > you could use distilled water instead, but then you are back to
        the
        > pigment staying in the center of the expanding circle of paint and
        > falling through to the bottom. The Golden GAC 900 makes the paint
        > spread and makes it more agressive on its spread so you can
        actually
        > balance your paints with it. I have marbled paper successfully
        with
        > this mix, but I mainly work on fabric and I've moved on to other
        > paint concoctions now. I think that Delta makes a fabric medium,
        but
        > it doesn't work the same as the Golden GAC 900; it is thicker,
        > heavier.
        >
        > Good luck! Susa Glenn
        >
        > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "juliepoulton" <madronewood@a...>
        > wrote:
        > > Hi! I am brand new to marbling, so I have lots of questions. I do
        > > have a book and I have read several websites on marbling but
        > haven't
        > > been
        > > able to figure some things out. I am a bit desperate because I
        > have
        > > a group of friends coming over Weds. night to do marbling with
        me!
        > >
        > > The main problem I am having is the paint is rinsing right off
        the
        > > paper. In fact, on my last one, it began to run off the paper
        > before
        > > I
        > > even began to rinse it. And the gold paint I used did not stick
        to
        > > the
        > > paper at all! ( Though I will say the gold is quite thick, even
        > > diluted, so I guess it needs more dilution.)
        > >
        > > The book I have says the problem may lie with something in my
        > papers
        > > (but this is happening with 3 different papers), with my alum
        > > concentration(I used 1 T alum to 1 cup H2O), with having too
        much
        > > paint (it was a little thin and there were even some blank
        spaces),
        > > or
        > > if my paper was too damp (was almost dry).
        > >
        > > My choice of papers may leave something to be desired. I used
        > printer
        > > paper, watercolor paper, and drawing paper. Could the paper be
        the
        > > problem? Any suggestions for what type of appropriate paper I
        > could
        > > get at a Ben Franklin store?
        > >
        > > I am using carrageenan, and Delta Ceramcoat acrylic paints.
        > >
        > > I have very hard tap water, so used distilled water to mix the
        > > carrageenan and to dilute my acrylic paints. However, a couple
        > drops
        > > of hard water may have gotten in some paint colors. Can this
        cause
        > a
        > > problem? Also, can I rinse with hard water at the end?
        > >
        > > I am having a hard time cleaning the surface of the bath. I
        tried
        > to
        > > clean it with 4" strips of newspaper. I must have used at least
        > 12
        > > strips, but can't seem to get all the paint off the surface. any
        > > tips?
        > >
        > > I have a vat that is too big for my 8.5 X 11 papers. Is it ok to
        > > "fill
        > > in" the empty space with more paint after making one page, then
        > make
        > > another page, or does the surface have to be cleaned each time?
        > >
        > > Ok, that's a lot of questions!! But if I can just get the paint
        to
        > > stick to the papers, I will be happy!
        > >
        > > Thanks in advance,
        > > madronewood
      • del stubbs
        Now a question about GAC 900....a week ago I talked with a tech person at Golden paints asking specifically what all the GAC s were for (there is everything
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 5, 2003
          Now a question about GAC 900....a week ago I talked with a tech person
          at Golden paints asking specifically what all the "GAC's" were for
          (there is everything from GAC 100-900. He told me that the GAC 900 was
          for fabric only, and not to use it for paper (he knew I was marbling -
          and he is a marbler himself...). The reason he said not to use the 900
          on paper was that it needs heat to really set the paint when it is mixed
          with the 900......but it sounds as though some of you are using the 900
          on paper successfully? I'm always interested in hearing "the rest of
          the story" - and pros and cons.

          Also - another perspective on ceramcoat......when my husband and I
          started marbling 10 years ago or so - we bought ceramcoat paints,
          because they were an inexpensive way to explore a new craft. We used
          them on carageenan, and never had much trouble with them (after we got
          through the marbling "initiation" phases......!) We were able to get
          some very good results with Ceramcoat, and still use them sometimes. We
          have switched, for the most part, to Golden fluid acrylics - and I find
          that there is a definite difference in quality and "performance" between
          the 2 brand names. My observations when comparing the two - Ceramcoat
          paint is not as dense color as Golden - the pigments in ceramcoat paint
          don't seem to be ground as fine - there is more "contamination" in
          Ceramcoat (ie. chunks of pigment).....and Ceramcoat "spreadabilty"
          varies significantly. Mary-Celine Thouin (Stubbs)

          susaglenn wrote:

          > Let me fine tune the suggested formula below: Start with 50% GAC 900
          > and 50% alcohol (70%). Try using 2 parts of this mix with 1 part of
          > the Ceramcoat paint. You might want to thin all of your paints down
          > to 1 part paint and 3 parts of the 50-50 mix. It is up to you. I
          > think that I was marbling on colored fabric when I was using the 33%
          > paint mix and if you are marbling on white paper, the 25% paint may
          > work just fine and be easier.
          >
          > Susa Glenn
          >
          >
          > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "susaglenn" <sglenn@c...> wrote:
          > > Hi, I've used Ceramcoat paints with some good successes on fabric.
          > I
          > > used 1/3 Ceramcoat, 1/3 Golden Acrylics GAC 900 (fabric medium)
          > and
          > > 1/3 alcohol (70%). The alcohol is a double sided issue here. It
          > > makes the acrylic paint pigment moil around on the surface of the
          > > size when dropped so it doesn't sink and it also will react to
          > some
          > > paint pigments so that the mixture gloms in the jar and is a
          > > hopeless mess. I think the paint tech people said that organic
          > > (inorganic?) pigments react to alcohol. Try Ceramcoat Bright Red,
          > > Bright Yellow, and now I've forgotten which blue. Test several.
          > The
          > > red blues are very agressive on their spread & the green blues
          > glom
          > > from the alcohol. I finally got one to work, I just can't remember
          > > which. Their white is nice. Their black is nice. Actually, their
          > > gold (Emperor's Gold, not the others) worked very well, was great
          > > with the alcohol, & printed on white paper. Amazing. I alumed my
          > > paper; I've forgotten the alum strength.
          > >
          > > This mix takes longer to fully expand when dropped on the size so
          > > there were times that I would cover my tray for a minute to keep
          > the
          > > paint from drying & give the spread more time. As long as I let
          > the
          > > last paint spread, I could stack up more paint on the size. I
          > guess
          > > you could use distilled water instead, but then you are back to
          > the
          > > pigment staying in the center of the expanding circle of paint and
          > > falling through to the bottom. The Golden GAC 900 makes the paint
          > > spread and makes it more agressive on its spread so you can
          > actually
          > > balance your paints with it. I have marbled paper successfully
          > with
          > > this mix, but I mainly work on fabric and I've moved on to other
          > > paint concoctions now. I think that Delta makes a fabric medium,
          > but
          > > it doesn't work the same as the Golden GAC 900; it is thicker,
          > > heavier.
          > >
          > > Good luck! Susa Glenn
          > >
          > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "juliepoulton" <madronewood@a...>
          > > wrote:
          > > > Hi! I am brand new to marbling, so I have lots of questions. I do
          > > > have a book and I have read several websites on marbling but
          > > haven't
          > > > been
          > > > able to figure some things out. I am a bit desperate because I
          > > have
          > > > a group of friends coming over Weds. night to do marbling with
          > me!
          > > >
          > > > The main problem I am having is the paint is rinsing right off
          > the
          > > > paper. In fact, on my last one, it began to run off the paper
          > > before
          > > > I
          > > > even began to rinse it. And the gold paint I used did not stick
          > to
          > > > the
          > > > paper at all! ( Though I will say the gold is quite thick, even
          > > > diluted, so I guess it needs more dilution.)
          > > >
          > > > The book I have says the problem may lie with something in my
          > > papers
          > > > (but this is happening with 3 different papers), with my alum
          > > > concentration(I used 1 T alum to 1 cup H2O), with having too
          > much
          > > > paint (it was a little thin and there were even some blank
          > spaces),
          > > > or
          > > > if my paper was too damp (was almost dry).
          > > >
          > > > My choice of papers may leave something to be desired. I used
          > > printer
          > > > paper, watercolor paper, and drawing paper. Could the paper be
          > the
          > > > problem? Any suggestions for what type of appropriate paper I
          > > could
          > > > get at a Ben Franklin store?
          > > >
          > > > I am using carrageenan, and Delta Ceramcoat acrylic paints.
          > > >
          > > > I have very hard tap water, so used distilled water to mix the
          > > > carrageenan and to dilute my acrylic paints. However, a couple
          > > drops
          > > > of hard water may have gotten in some paint colors. Can this
          > cause
          > > a
          > > > problem? Also, can I rinse with hard water at the end?
          > > >
          > > > I am having a hard time cleaning the surface of the bath. I
          > tried
          > > to
          > > > clean it with 4" strips of newspaper. I must have used at least
          > > 12
          > > > strips, but can't seem to get all the paint off the surface. any
          > > > tips?
          > > >
          > > > I have a vat that is too big for my 8.5 X 11 papers. Is it ok to
          > > > "fill
          > > > in" the empty space with more paint after making one page, then
          > > make
          > > > another page, or does the surface have to be cleaned each time?
          > > >
          > > > Ok, that's a lot of questions!! But if I can just get the paint
          > to
          > > > stick to the papers, I will be happy!
          > > >
          > > > Thanks in advance,
          > > > madronewood
          >
          >
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          ADVERTISEMENT


          >
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        • susaglenn
          I agree with all you ve said & I too use Golden Fluids now. The advantage that I see for a beginner to use Ceramcoat is that even though the pigment load is
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 5, 2003
            I agree with all you've said & I too use Golden Fluids now. The
            advantage that I see for a beginner to use Ceramcoat is that even
            though the pigment load is MUCH lower and there's sometimes some
            glop that needs to be strained out and the paint needs to be stirred
            up because it has separated from sitting on the shelf for who knows
            how long, Ceramcoat will give you nice thread quality and won't
            shatter so easily like the Golden fluids. There's something in there
            that makes it smooth & easier to work with.

            On the question about not using GAC 900 on paper: The GAC 900 has to
            be heat set so the fabric will be washable. If you don't plan to
            wash your marbled paper you don't need to heat set it. The alum on
            the paper is going to hold the pigment to the paper fibers. I really
            don't see why you couldn't use the 900 if you wanted to unless it
            messes up the archival quality of the paper.

            The alcohol that I use also helps with pigment problems as it acts
            as a solvent.

            Susa Glenn

            --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, del stubbs <mdstubbs@p...> wrote:
            > Now a question about GAC 900....a week ago I talked with a tech
            person
            > at Golden paints asking specifically what all the "GAC's" were for
            > (there is everything from GAC 100-900. He told me that the GAC
            900 was
            > for fabric only, and not to use it for paper (he knew I was
            marbling -
            > and he is a marbler himself...). The reason he said not to use
            the 900
            > on paper was that it needs heat to really set the paint when it is
            mixed
            > with the 900......but it sounds as though some of you are using
            the 900
            > on paper successfully? I'm always interested in hearing "the rest
            of
            > the story" - and pros and cons.
            >
            > Also - another perspective on ceramcoat......when my husband and I
            > started marbling 10 years ago or so - we bought ceramcoat paints,
            > because they were an inexpensive way to explore a new craft. We
            used
            > them on carageenan, and never had much trouble with them (after we
            got
            > through the marbling "initiation" phases......!) We were able to
            get
            > some very good results with Ceramcoat, and still use them
            sometimes. We
            > have switched, for the most part, to Golden fluid acrylics - and I
            find
            > that there is a definite difference in quality and "performance"
            between
            > the 2 brand names. My observations when comparing the two -
            Ceramcoat
            > paint is not as dense color as Golden - the pigments in ceramcoat
            paint
            > don't seem to be ground as fine - there is more "contamination" in
            > Ceramcoat (ie. chunks of pigment).....and Ceramcoat "spreadabilty"
            > varies significantly. Mary-Celine Thouin (Stubbs)
            >
            > susaglenn wrote:
            >
            > > Let me fine tune the suggested formula below: Start with 50%
            GAC 900
            > > and 50% alcohol (70%). Try using 2 parts of this mix with 1 part
            of
            > > the Ceramcoat paint. You might want to thin all of your paints
            down
            > > to 1 part paint and 3 parts of the 50-50 mix. It is up to you. I
            > > think that I was marbling on colored fabric when I was using the
            33%
            > > paint mix and if you are marbling on white paper, the 25% paint
            may
            > > work just fine and be easier.
            > >
            > > Susa Glenn
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "susaglenn" <sglenn@c...> wrote:
            > > > Hi, I've used Ceramcoat paints with some good successes on
            fabric.
            > > I
            > > > used 1/3 Ceramcoat, 1/3 Golden Acrylics GAC 900 (fabric medium)
            > > and
            > > > 1/3 alcohol (70%). The alcohol is a double sided issue here. It
            > > > makes the acrylic paint pigment moil around on the surface of
            the
            > > > size when dropped so it doesn't sink and it also will react to
            > > some
            > > > paint pigments so that the mixture gloms in the jar and is a
            > > > hopeless mess. I think the paint tech people said that organic
            > > > (inorganic?) pigments react to alcohol. Try Ceramcoat Bright
            Red,
            > > > Bright Yellow, and now I've forgotten which blue. Test several.
            > > The
            > > > red blues are very agressive on their spread & the green blues
            > > glom
            > > > from the alcohol. I finally got one to work, I just can't
            remember
            > > > which. Their white is nice. Their black is nice. Actually,
            their
            > > > gold (Emperor's Gold, not the others) worked very well, was
            great
            > > > with the alcohol, & printed on white paper. Amazing. I alumed
            my
            > > > paper; I've forgotten the alum strength.
            > > >
            > > > This mix takes longer to fully expand when dropped on the size
            so
            > > > there were times that I would cover my tray for a minute to
            keep
            > > the
            > > > paint from drying & give the spread more time. As long as I let
            > > the
            > > > last paint spread, I could stack up more paint on the size. I
            > > guess
            > > > you could use distilled water instead, but then you are back to
            > > the
            > > > pigment staying in the center of the expanding circle of paint
            and
            > > > falling through to the bottom. The Golden GAC 900 makes the
            paint
            > > > spread and makes it more agressive on its spread so you can
            > > actually
            > > > balance your paints with it. I have marbled paper successfully
            > > with
            > > > this mix, but I mainly work on fabric and I've moved on to
            other
            > > > paint concoctions now. I think that Delta makes a fabric
            medium,
            > > but
            > > > it doesn't work the same as the Golden GAC 900; it is thicker,
            > > > heavier.
            > > >
            > > > Good luck! Susa Glenn
            > > >
            > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "juliepoulton"
            <madronewood@a...>
            > > > wrote:
            > > > > Hi! I am brand new to marbling, so I have lots of questions.
            I do
            > > > > have a book and I have read several websites on marbling but
            > > > haven't
            > > > > been
            > > > > able to figure some things out. I am a bit desperate because
            I
            > > > have
            > > > > a group of friends coming over Weds. night to do marbling
            with
            > > me!
            > > > >
            > > > > The main problem I am having is the paint is rinsing right
            off
            > > the
            > > > > paper. In fact, on my last one, it began to run off the paper
            > > > before
            > > > > I
            > > > > even began to rinse it. And the gold paint I used did not
            stick
            > > to
            > > > > the
            > > > > paper at all! ( Though I will say the gold is quite thick,
            even
            > > > > diluted, so I guess it needs more dilution.)
            > > > >
            > > > > The book I have says the problem may lie with something in my
            > > > papers
            > > > > (but this is happening with 3 different papers), with my alum
            > > > > concentration(I used 1 T alum to 1 cup H2O), with having too
            > > much
            > > > > paint (it was a little thin and there were even some blank
            > > spaces),
            > > > > or
            > > > > if my paper was too damp (was almost dry).
            > > > >
            > > > > My choice of papers may leave something to be desired. I used
            > > > printer
            > > > > paper, watercolor paper, and drawing paper. Could the paper
            be
            > > the
            > > > > problem? Any suggestions for what type of appropriate paper I
            > > > could
            > > > > get at a Ben Franklin store?
            > > > >
            > > > > I am using carrageenan, and Delta Ceramcoat acrylic paints.
            > > > >
            > > > > I have very hard tap water, so used distilled water to mix
            the
            > > > > carrageenan and to dilute my acrylic paints. However, a
            couple
            > > > drops
            > > > > of hard water may have gotten in some paint colors. Can this
            > > cause
            > > > a
            > > > > problem? Also, can I rinse with hard water at the end?
            > > > >
            > > > > I am having a hard time cleaning the surface of the bath. I
            > > tried
            > > > to
            > > > > clean it with 4" strips of newspaper. I must have used at
            least
            > > > 12
            > > > > strips, but can't seem to get all the paint off the surface.
            any
            > > > > tips?
            > > > >
            > > > > I have a vat that is too big for my 8.5 X 11 papers. Is it
            ok to
            > > > > "fill
            > > > > in" the empty space with more paint after making one page,
            then
            > > > make
            > > > > another page, or does the surface have to be cleaned each
            time?
            > > > >
            > > > > Ok, that's a lot of questions!! But if I can just get the
            paint
            > > to
            > > > > stick to the papers, I will be happy!
            > > > >
            > > > > Thanks in advance,
            > > > > madronewood
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > ADVERTISEMENT
            >
            >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
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