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Re: [Marbling] paint rinses off

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  • IrisNevins
    If you need just small sheets, Strathmore writing paper is good from stationary store. I use Classic laid or Classic Linen and you have to buy cartons of at
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 5, 2003
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      If you need just small sheets, Strathmore writing paper is good from
      stationary store.

      I use Classic laid or Classic Linen and you have to buy cartons of at least
      1,000. Look up PAPER in your LOCAL yellow pages. They have local
      distributors all over.

      Iris Nevins
      www.marblingpaper.com
    • IrisNevins
      PS....I sell alum, as do other suppliers. On many acrylics you do not need alum much of the time...it is different for each kind. Marbling paint is not
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 5, 2003
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        PS....I sell alum, as do other suppliers.

        On many acrylics you do not need alum much of the time...it is different
        for each kind. Marbling "paint" is not generic. Each brand will work very
        differently.

        IrisNevins
        www.marblingpaper.com
      • susaglenn
        Let me fine tune the suggested formula below: Start with 50% GAC 900 and 50% alcohol (70%). Try using 2 parts of this mix with 1 part of the Ceramcoat paint.
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 5, 2003
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          Let me fine tune the suggested formula below: Start with 50% GAC 900
          and 50% alcohol (70%). Try using 2 parts of this mix with 1 part of
          the Ceramcoat paint. You might want to thin all of your paints down
          to 1 part paint and 3 parts of the 50-50 mix. It is up to you. I
          think that I was marbling on colored fabric when I was using the 33%
          paint mix and if you are marbling on white paper, the 25% paint may
          work just fine and be easier.

          Susa Glenn


          --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "susaglenn" <sglenn@c...> wrote:
          > Hi, I've used Ceramcoat paints with some good successes on fabric.
          I
          > used 1/3 Ceramcoat, 1/3 Golden Acrylics GAC 900 (fabric medium)
          and
          > 1/3 alcohol (70%). The alcohol is a double sided issue here. It
          > makes the acrylic paint pigment moil around on the surface of the
          > size when dropped so it doesn't sink and it also will react to
          some
          > paint pigments so that the mixture gloms in the jar and is a
          > hopeless mess. I think the paint tech people said that organic
          > (inorganic?) pigments react to alcohol. Try Ceramcoat Bright Red,
          > Bright Yellow, and now I've forgotten which blue. Test several.
          The
          > red blues are very agressive on their spread & the green blues
          glom
          > from the alcohol. I finally got one to work, I just can't remember
          > which. Their white is nice. Their black is nice. Actually, their
          > gold (Emperor's Gold, not the others) worked very well, was great
          > with the alcohol, & printed on white paper. Amazing. I alumed my
          > paper; I've forgotten the alum strength.
          >
          > This mix takes longer to fully expand when dropped on the size so
          > there were times that I would cover my tray for a minute to keep
          the
          > paint from drying & give the spread more time. As long as I let
          the
          > last paint spread, I could stack up more paint on the size. I
          guess
          > you could use distilled water instead, but then you are back to
          the
          > pigment staying in the center of the expanding circle of paint and
          > falling through to the bottom. The Golden GAC 900 makes the paint
          > spread and makes it more agressive on its spread so you can
          actually
          > balance your paints with it. I have marbled paper successfully
          with
          > this mix, but I mainly work on fabric and I've moved on to other
          > paint concoctions now. I think that Delta makes a fabric medium,
          but
          > it doesn't work the same as the Golden GAC 900; it is thicker,
          > heavier.
          >
          > Good luck! Susa Glenn
          >
          > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "juliepoulton" <madronewood@a...>
          > wrote:
          > > Hi! I am brand new to marbling, so I have lots of questions. I do
          > > have a book and I have read several websites on marbling but
          > haven't
          > > been
          > > able to figure some things out. I am a bit desperate because I
          > have
          > > a group of friends coming over Weds. night to do marbling with
          me!
          > >
          > > The main problem I am having is the paint is rinsing right off
          the
          > > paper. In fact, on my last one, it began to run off the paper
          > before
          > > I
          > > even began to rinse it. And the gold paint I used did not stick
          to
          > > the
          > > paper at all! ( Though I will say the gold is quite thick, even
          > > diluted, so I guess it needs more dilution.)
          > >
          > > The book I have says the problem may lie with something in my
          > papers
          > > (but this is happening with 3 different papers), with my alum
          > > concentration(I used 1 T alum to 1 cup H2O), with having too
          much
          > > paint (it was a little thin and there were even some blank
          spaces),
          > > or
          > > if my paper was too damp (was almost dry).
          > >
          > > My choice of papers may leave something to be desired. I used
          > printer
          > > paper, watercolor paper, and drawing paper. Could the paper be
          the
          > > problem? Any suggestions for what type of appropriate paper I
          > could
          > > get at a Ben Franklin store?
          > >
          > > I am using carrageenan, and Delta Ceramcoat acrylic paints.
          > >
          > > I have very hard tap water, so used distilled water to mix the
          > > carrageenan and to dilute my acrylic paints. However, a couple
          > drops
          > > of hard water may have gotten in some paint colors. Can this
          cause
          > a
          > > problem? Also, can I rinse with hard water at the end?
          > >
          > > I am having a hard time cleaning the surface of the bath. I
          tried
          > to
          > > clean it with 4" strips of newspaper. I must have used at least
          > 12
          > > strips, but can't seem to get all the paint off the surface. any
          > > tips?
          > >
          > > I have a vat that is too big for my 8.5 X 11 papers. Is it ok to
          > > "fill
          > > in" the empty space with more paint after making one page, then
          > make
          > > another page, or does the surface have to be cleaned each time?
          > >
          > > Ok, that's a lot of questions!! But if I can just get the paint
          to
          > > stick to the papers, I will be happy!
          > >
          > > Thanks in advance,
          > > madronewood
        • del stubbs
          Now a question about GAC 900....a week ago I talked with a tech person at Golden paints asking specifically what all the GAC s were for (there is everything
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 5, 2003
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            Now a question about GAC 900....a week ago I talked with a tech person
            at Golden paints asking specifically what all the "GAC's" were for
            (there is everything from GAC 100-900. He told me that the GAC 900 was
            for fabric only, and not to use it for paper (he knew I was marbling -
            and he is a marbler himself...). The reason he said not to use the 900
            on paper was that it needs heat to really set the paint when it is mixed
            with the 900......but it sounds as though some of you are using the 900
            on paper successfully? I'm always interested in hearing "the rest of
            the story" - and pros and cons.

            Also - another perspective on ceramcoat......when my husband and I
            started marbling 10 years ago or so - we bought ceramcoat paints,
            because they were an inexpensive way to explore a new craft. We used
            them on carageenan, and never had much trouble with them (after we got
            through the marbling "initiation" phases......!) We were able to get
            some very good results with Ceramcoat, and still use them sometimes. We
            have switched, for the most part, to Golden fluid acrylics - and I find
            that there is a definite difference in quality and "performance" between
            the 2 brand names. My observations when comparing the two - Ceramcoat
            paint is not as dense color as Golden - the pigments in ceramcoat paint
            don't seem to be ground as fine - there is more "contamination" in
            Ceramcoat (ie. chunks of pigment).....and Ceramcoat "spreadabilty"
            varies significantly. Mary-Celine Thouin (Stubbs)

            susaglenn wrote:

            > Let me fine tune the suggested formula below: Start with 50% GAC 900
            > and 50% alcohol (70%). Try using 2 parts of this mix with 1 part of
            > the Ceramcoat paint. You might want to thin all of your paints down
            > to 1 part paint and 3 parts of the 50-50 mix. It is up to you. I
            > think that I was marbling on colored fabric when I was using the 33%
            > paint mix and if you are marbling on white paper, the 25% paint may
            > work just fine and be easier.
            >
            > Susa Glenn
            >
            >
            > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "susaglenn" <sglenn@c...> wrote:
            > > Hi, I've used Ceramcoat paints with some good successes on fabric.
            > I
            > > used 1/3 Ceramcoat, 1/3 Golden Acrylics GAC 900 (fabric medium)
            > and
            > > 1/3 alcohol (70%). The alcohol is a double sided issue here. It
            > > makes the acrylic paint pigment moil around on the surface of the
            > > size when dropped so it doesn't sink and it also will react to
            > some
            > > paint pigments so that the mixture gloms in the jar and is a
            > > hopeless mess. I think the paint tech people said that organic
            > > (inorganic?) pigments react to alcohol. Try Ceramcoat Bright Red,
            > > Bright Yellow, and now I've forgotten which blue. Test several.
            > The
            > > red blues are very agressive on their spread & the green blues
            > glom
            > > from the alcohol. I finally got one to work, I just can't remember
            > > which. Their white is nice. Their black is nice. Actually, their
            > > gold (Emperor's Gold, not the others) worked very well, was great
            > > with the alcohol, & printed on white paper. Amazing. I alumed my
            > > paper; I've forgotten the alum strength.
            > >
            > > This mix takes longer to fully expand when dropped on the size so
            > > there were times that I would cover my tray for a minute to keep
            > the
            > > paint from drying & give the spread more time. As long as I let
            > the
            > > last paint spread, I could stack up more paint on the size. I
            > guess
            > > you could use distilled water instead, but then you are back to
            > the
            > > pigment staying in the center of the expanding circle of paint and
            > > falling through to the bottom. The Golden GAC 900 makes the paint
            > > spread and makes it more agressive on its spread so you can
            > actually
            > > balance your paints with it. I have marbled paper successfully
            > with
            > > this mix, but I mainly work on fabric and I've moved on to other
            > > paint concoctions now. I think that Delta makes a fabric medium,
            > but
            > > it doesn't work the same as the Golden GAC 900; it is thicker,
            > > heavier.
            > >
            > > Good luck! Susa Glenn
            > >
            > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "juliepoulton" <madronewood@a...>
            > > wrote:
            > > > Hi! I am brand new to marbling, so I have lots of questions. I do
            > > > have a book and I have read several websites on marbling but
            > > haven't
            > > > been
            > > > able to figure some things out. I am a bit desperate because I
            > > have
            > > > a group of friends coming over Weds. night to do marbling with
            > me!
            > > >
            > > > The main problem I am having is the paint is rinsing right off
            > the
            > > > paper. In fact, on my last one, it began to run off the paper
            > > before
            > > > I
            > > > even began to rinse it. And the gold paint I used did not stick
            > to
            > > > the
            > > > paper at all! ( Though I will say the gold is quite thick, even
            > > > diluted, so I guess it needs more dilution.)
            > > >
            > > > The book I have says the problem may lie with something in my
            > > papers
            > > > (but this is happening with 3 different papers), with my alum
            > > > concentration(I used 1 T alum to 1 cup H2O), with having too
            > much
            > > > paint (it was a little thin and there were even some blank
            > spaces),
            > > > or
            > > > if my paper was too damp (was almost dry).
            > > >
            > > > My choice of papers may leave something to be desired. I used
            > > printer
            > > > paper, watercolor paper, and drawing paper. Could the paper be
            > the
            > > > problem? Any suggestions for what type of appropriate paper I
            > > could
            > > > get at a Ben Franklin store?
            > > >
            > > > I am using carrageenan, and Delta Ceramcoat acrylic paints.
            > > >
            > > > I have very hard tap water, so used distilled water to mix the
            > > > carrageenan and to dilute my acrylic paints. However, a couple
            > > drops
            > > > of hard water may have gotten in some paint colors. Can this
            > cause
            > > a
            > > > problem? Also, can I rinse with hard water at the end?
            > > >
            > > > I am having a hard time cleaning the surface of the bath. I
            > tried
            > > to
            > > > clean it with 4" strips of newspaper. I must have used at least
            > > 12
            > > > strips, but can't seem to get all the paint off the surface. any
            > > > tips?
            > > >
            > > > I have a vat that is too big for my 8.5 X 11 papers. Is it ok to
            > > > "fill
            > > > in" the empty space with more paint after making one page, then
            > > make
            > > > another page, or does the surface have to be cleaned each time?
            > > >
            > > > Ok, that's a lot of questions!! But if I can just get the paint
            > to
            > > > stick to the papers, I will be happy!
            > > >
            > > > Thanks in advance,
            > > > madronewood
            >
            >
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          • susaglenn
            I agree with all you ve said & I too use Golden Fluids now. The advantage that I see for a beginner to use Ceramcoat is that even though the pigment load is
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 5, 2003
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              I agree with all you've said & I too use Golden Fluids now. The
              advantage that I see for a beginner to use Ceramcoat is that even
              though the pigment load is MUCH lower and there's sometimes some
              glop that needs to be strained out and the paint needs to be stirred
              up because it has separated from sitting on the shelf for who knows
              how long, Ceramcoat will give you nice thread quality and won't
              shatter so easily like the Golden fluids. There's something in there
              that makes it smooth & easier to work with.

              On the question about not using GAC 900 on paper: The GAC 900 has to
              be heat set so the fabric will be washable. If you don't plan to
              wash your marbled paper you don't need to heat set it. The alum on
              the paper is going to hold the pigment to the paper fibers. I really
              don't see why you couldn't use the 900 if you wanted to unless it
              messes up the archival quality of the paper.

              The alcohol that I use also helps with pigment problems as it acts
              as a solvent.

              Susa Glenn

              --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, del stubbs <mdstubbs@p...> wrote:
              > Now a question about GAC 900....a week ago I talked with a tech
              person
              > at Golden paints asking specifically what all the "GAC's" were for
              > (there is everything from GAC 100-900. He told me that the GAC
              900 was
              > for fabric only, and not to use it for paper (he knew I was
              marbling -
              > and he is a marbler himself...). The reason he said not to use
              the 900
              > on paper was that it needs heat to really set the paint when it is
              mixed
              > with the 900......but it sounds as though some of you are using
              the 900
              > on paper successfully? I'm always interested in hearing "the rest
              of
              > the story" - and pros and cons.
              >
              > Also - another perspective on ceramcoat......when my husband and I
              > started marbling 10 years ago or so - we bought ceramcoat paints,
              > because they were an inexpensive way to explore a new craft. We
              used
              > them on carageenan, and never had much trouble with them (after we
              got
              > through the marbling "initiation" phases......!) We were able to
              get
              > some very good results with Ceramcoat, and still use them
              sometimes. We
              > have switched, for the most part, to Golden fluid acrylics - and I
              find
              > that there is a definite difference in quality and "performance"
              between
              > the 2 brand names. My observations when comparing the two -
              Ceramcoat
              > paint is not as dense color as Golden - the pigments in ceramcoat
              paint
              > don't seem to be ground as fine - there is more "contamination" in
              > Ceramcoat (ie. chunks of pigment).....and Ceramcoat "spreadabilty"
              > varies significantly. Mary-Celine Thouin (Stubbs)
              >
              > susaglenn wrote:
              >
              > > Let me fine tune the suggested formula below: Start with 50%
              GAC 900
              > > and 50% alcohol (70%). Try using 2 parts of this mix with 1 part
              of
              > > the Ceramcoat paint. You might want to thin all of your paints
              down
              > > to 1 part paint and 3 parts of the 50-50 mix. It is up to you. I
              > > think that I was marbling on colored fabric when I was using the
              33%
              > > paint mix and if you are marbling on white paper, the 25% paint
              may
              > > work just fine and be easier.
              > >
              > > Susa Glenn
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "susaglenn" <sglenn@c...> wrote:
              > > > Hi, I've used Ceramcoat paints with some good successes on
              fabric.
              > > I
              > > > used 1/3 Ceramcoat, 1/3 Golden Acrylics GAC 900 (fabric medium)
              > > and
              > > > 1/3 alcohol (70%). The alcohol is a double sided issue here. It
              > > > makes the acrylic paint pigment moil around on the surface of
              the
              > > > size when dropped so it doesn't sink and it also will react to
              > > some
              > > > paint pigments so that the mixture gloms in the jar and is a
              > > > hopeless mess. I think the paint tech people said that organic
              > > > (inorganic?) pigments react to alcohol. Try Ceramcoat Bright
              Red,
              > > > Bright Yellow, and now I've forgotten which blue. Test several.
              > > The
              > > > red blues are very agressive on their spread & the green blues
              > > glom
              > > > from the alcohol. I finally got one to work, I just can't
              remember
              > > > which. Their white is nice. Their black is nice. Actually,
              their
              > > > gold (Emperor's Gold, not the others) worked very well, was
              great
              > > > with the alcohol, & printed on white paper. Amazing. I alumed
              my
              > > > paper; I've forgotten the alum strength.
              > > >
              > > > This mix takes longer to fully expand when dropped on the size
              so
              > > > there were times that I would cover my tray for a minute to
              keep
              > > the
              > > > paint from drying & give the spread more time. As long as I let
              > > the
              > > > last paint spread, I could stack up more paint on the size. I
              > > guess
              > > > you could use distilled water instead, but then you are back to
              > > the
              > > > pigment staying in the center of the expanding circle of paint
              and
              > > > falling through to the bottom. The Golden GAC 900 makes the
              paint
              > > > spread and makes it more agressive on its spread so you can
              > > actually
              > > > balance your paints with it. I have marbled paper successfully
              > > with
              > > > this mix, but I mainly work on fabric and I've moved on to
              other
              > > > paint concoctions now. I think that Delta makes a fabric
              medium,
              > > but
              > > > it doesn't work the same as the Golden GAC 900; it is thicker,
              > > > heavier.
              > > >
              > > > Good luck! Susa Glenn
              > > >
              > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "juliepoulton"
              <madronewood@a...>
              > > > wrote:
              > > > > Hi! I am brand new to marbling, so I have lots of questions.
              I do
              > > > > have a book and I have read several websites on marbling but
              > > > haven't
              > > > > been
              > > > > able to figure some things out. I am a bit desperate because
              I
              > > > have
              > > > > a group of friends coming over Weds. night to do marbling
              with
              > > me!
              > > > >
              > > > > The main problem I am having is the paint is rinsing right
              off
              > > the
              > > > > paper. In fact, on my last one, it began to run off the paper
              > > > before
              > > > > I
              > > > > even began to rinse it. And the gold paint I used did not
              stick
              > > to
              > > > > the
              > > > > paper at all! ( Though I will say the gold is quite thick,
              even
              > > > > diluted, so I guess it needs more dilution.)
              > > > >
              > > > > The book I have says the problem may lie with something in my
              > > > papers
              > > > > (but this is happening with 3 different papers), with my alum
              > > > > concentration(I used 1 T alum to 1 cup H2O), with having too
              > > much
              > > > > paint (it was a little thin and there were even some blank
              > > spaces),
              > > > > or
              > > > > if my paper was too damp (was almost dry).
              > > > >
              > > > > My choice of papers may leave something to be desired. I used
              > > > printer
              > > > > paper, watercolor paper, and drawing paper. Could the paper
              be
              > > the
              > > > > problem? Any suggestions for what type of appropriate paper I
              > > > could
              > > > > get at a Ben Franklin store?
              > > > >
              > > > > I am using carrageenan, and Delta Ceramcoat acrylic paints.
              > > > >
              > > > > I have very hard tap water, so used distilled water to mix
              the
              > > > > carrageenan and to dilute my acrylic paints. However, a
              couple
              > > > drops
              > > > > of hard water may have gotten in some paint colors. Can this
              > > cause
              > > > a
              > > > > problem? Also, can I rinse with hard water at the end?
              > > > >
              > > > > I am having a hard time cleaning the surface of the bath. I
              > > tried
              > > > to
              > > > > clean it with 4" strips of newspaper. I must have used at
              least
              > > > 12
              > > > > strips, but can't seem to get all the paint off the surface.
              any
              > > > > tips?
              > > > >
              > > > > I have a vat that is too big for my 8.5 X 11 papers. Is it
              ok to
              > > > > "fill
              > > > > in" the empty space with more paint after making one page,
              then
              > > > make
              > > > > another page, or does the surface have to be cleaned each
              time?
              > > > >
              > > > > Ok, that's a lot of questions!! But if I can just get the
              paint
              > > to
              > > > > stick to the papers, I will be happy!
              > > > >
              > > > > Thanks in advance,
              > > > > madronewood
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > ADVERTISEMENT
              >
              >
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
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