Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

paint rinses off

Expand Messages
  • juliepoulton
    Thanks to Iris for all the advice and info! Now I have more questions. None of my paints sunk, but I will dilute further and avoid the gold. Plus I will get
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 5, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Thanks to Iris for all the advice and info!

      Now I have more questions.

      None of my paints sunk, but I will dilute further and avoid the gold.
      Plus I will get that charcoal paper.

      Where do you get papers from and what do you get? My interests would
      be to make (small) wrapping papers, cards, or paper to cover a box.
      Also, does stationery usually work? (like those blank cards they sell
      in art stores?)

      How can I tell how much carrageenan to add to my hard h2o?

      Yes, I am using alum from the grocery store! Not sure where else to
      get it in this rural town, but I will order some real stuff for next
      time. One person sent me a direct email saying that I don't need to
      alum if I am using acrylics. Anyone else have comments on this?

      Thanks
      -madronewood
    • Geri Burgert
      In addition to Madronewood s previous questions, I would also like to ask one: I, too, am searching for a source for inexpensive paper for marbling. I need
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 5, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        In addition to Madronewood's previous questions, I would also like to ask one:

        I, too, am searching for a source for inexpensive paper for marbling. I need something fairly thin because I hope to use the marbled paper to package homemade scented soaps. Help?

        TIA, Geri



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ann Lederer
        You might want to try galen berry s web site for ordering materials.... juliepoulton wrote:Thanks to Iris for all the advice and
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 5, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          You might want to try galen berry's web site for ordering materials....
          juliepoulton <madronewood@...> wrote:Thanks to Iris for all the advice and info!

          Now I have more questions.

          None of my paints sunk, but I will dilute further and avoid the gold.
          Plus I will get that charcoal paper.

          Where do you get papers from and what do you get? My interests would
          be to make (small) wrapping papers, cards, or paper to cover a box.
          Also, does stationery usually work? (like those blank cards they sell
          in art stores?)

          How can I tell how much carrageenan to add to my hard h2o?

          Yes, I am using alum from the grocery store! Not sure where else to
          get it in this rural town, but I will order some real stuff for next
          time. One person sent me a direct email saying that I don't need to
          alum if I am using acrylics. Anyone else have comments on this?

          Thanks
          -madronewood



          Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



          ---------------------------------
          Do you Yahoo!?
          Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • IrisNevins
          Wrong alum. wrong paper......no wonder. Ceramcoat is generally OK if you pick the right colors, and I can t say now what they are....forgot long ago. Round
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 5, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Wrong alum. wrong paper......no wonder. Ceramcoat is generally OK if you
            pick the right colors, and I can't say now what they are....forgot long
            ago.

            Round your tablespoons of carrageenan instead of level. Very easy.

            IrisNevins
            www.marblingpaper.com
          • IrisNevins
            If you need just small sheets, Strathmore writing paper is good from stationary store. I use Classic laid or Classic Linen and you have to buy cartons of at
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 5, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              If you need just small sheets, Strathmore writing paper is good from
              stationary store.

              I use Classic laid or Classic Linen and you have to buy cartons of at least
              1,000. Look up PAPER in your LOCAL yellow pages. They have local
              distributors all over.

              Iris Nevins
              www.marblingpaper.com
            • IrisNevins
              PS....I sell alum, as do other suppliers. On many acrylics you do not need alum much of the time...it is different for each kind. Marbling paint is not
              Message 6 of 12 , Mar 5, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                PS....I sell alum, as do other suppliers.

                On many acrylics you do not need alum much of the time...it is different
                for each kind. Marbling "paint" is not generic. Each brand will work very
                differently.

                IrisNevins
                www.marblingpaper.com
              • susaglenn
                Let me fine tune the suggested formula below: Start with 50% GAC 900 and 50% alcohol (70%). Try using 2 parts of this mix with 1 part of the Ceramcoat paint.
                Message 7 of 12 , Mar 5, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  Let me fine tune the suggested formula below: Start with 50% GAC 900
                  and 50% alcohol (70%). Try using 2 parts of this mix with 1 part of
                  the Ceramcoat paint. You might want to thin all of your paints down
                  to 1 part paint and 3 parts of the 50-50 mix. It is up to you. I
                  think that I was marbling on colored fabric when I was using the 33%
                  paint mix and if you are marbling on white paper, the 25% paint may
                  work just fine and be easier.

                  Susa Glenn


                  --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "susaglenn" <sglenn@c...> wrote:
                  > Hi, I've used Ceramcoat paints with some good successes on fabric.
                  I
                  > used 1/3 Ceramcoat, 1/3 Golden Acrylics GAC 900 (fabric medium)
                  and
                  > 1/3 alcohol (70%). The alcohol is a double sided issue here. It
                  > makes the acrylic paint pigment moil around on the surface of the
                  > size when dropped so it doesn't sink and it also will react to
                  some
                  > paint pigments so that the mixture gloms in the jar and is a
                  > hopeless mess. I think the paint tech people said that organic
                  > (inorganic?) pigments react to alcohol. Try Ceramcoat Bright Red,
                  > Bright Yellow, and now I've forgotten which blue. Test several.
                  The
                  > red blues are very agressive on their spread & the green blues
                  glom
                  > from the alcohol. I finally got one to work, I just can't remember
                  > which. Their white is nice. Their black is nice. Actually, their
                  > gold (Emperor's Gold, not the others) worked very well, was great
                  > with the alcohol, & printed on white paper. Amazing. I alumed my
                  > paper; I've forgotten the alum strength.
                  >
                  > This mix takes longer to fully expand when dropped on the size so
                  > there were times that I would cover my tray for a minute to keep
                  the
                  > paint from drying & give the spread more time. As long as I let
                  the
                  > last paint spread, I could stack up more paint on the size. I
                  guess
                  > you could use distilled water instead, but then you are back to
                  the
                  > pigment staying in the center of the expanding circle of paint and
                  > falling through to the bottom. The Golden GAC 900 makes the paint
                  > spread and makes it more agressive on its spread so you can
                  actually
                  > balance your paints with it. I have marbled paper successfully
                  with
                  > this mix, but I mainly work on fabric and I've moved on to other
                  > paint concoctions now. I think that Delta makes a fabric medium,
                  but
                  > it doesn't work the same as the Golden GAC 900; it is thicker,
                  > heavier.
                  >
                  > Good luck! Susa Glenn
                  >
                  > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "juliepoulton" <madronewood@a...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > Hi! I am brand new to marbling, so I have lots of questions. I do
                  > > have a book and I have read several websites on marbling but
                  > haven't
                  > > been
                  > > able to figure some things out. I am a bit desperate because I
                  > have
                  > > a group of friends coming over Weds. night to do marbling with
                  me!
                  > >
                  > > The main problem I am having is the paint is rinsing right off
                  the
                  > > paper. In fact, on my last one, it began to run off the paper
                  > before
                  > > I
                  > > even began to rinse it. And the gold paint I used did not stick
                  to
                  > > the
                  > > paper at all! ( Though I will say the gold is quite thick, even
                  > > diluted, so I guess it needs more dilution.)
                  > >
                  > > The book I have says the problem may lie with something in my
                  > papers
                  > > (but this is happening with 3 different papers), with my alum
                  > > concentration(I used 1 T alum to 1 cup H2O), with having too
                  much
                  > > paint (it was a little thin and there were even some blank
                  spaces),
                  > > or
                  > > if my paper was too damp (was almost dry).
                  > >
                  > > My choice of papers may leave something to be desired. I used
                  > printer
                  > > paper, watercolor paper, and drawing paper. Could the paper be
                  the
                  > > problem? Any suggestions for what type of appropriate paper I
                  > could
                  > > get at a Ben Franklin store?
                  > >
                  > > I am using carrageenan, and Delta Ceramcoat acrylic paints.
                  > >
                  > > I have very hard tap water, so used distilled water to mix the
                  > > carrageenan and to dilute my acrylic paints. However, a couple
                  > drops
                  > > of hard water may have gotten in some paint colors. Can this
                  cause
                  > a
                  > > problem? Also, can I rinse with hard water at the end?
                  > >
                  > > I am having a hard time cleaning the surface of the bath. I
                  tried
                  > to
                  > > clean it with 4" strips of newspaper. I must have used at least
                  > 12
                  > > strips, but can't seem to get all the paint off the surface. any
                  > > tips?
                  > >
                  > > I have a vat that is too big for my 8.5 X 11 papers. Is it ok to
                  > > "fill
                  > > in" the empty space with more paint after making one page, then
                  > make
                  > > another page, or does the surface have to be cleaned each time?
                  > >
                  > > Ok, that's a lot of questions!! But if I can just get the paint
                  to
                  > > stick to the papers, I will be happy!
                  > >
                  > > Thanks in advance,
                  > > madronewood
                • del stubbs
                  Now a question about GAC 900....a week ago I talked with a tech person at Golden paints asking specifically what all the GAC s were for (there is everything
                  Message 8 of 12 , Mar 5, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Now a question about GAC 900....a week ago I talked with a tech person
                    at Golden paints asking specifically what all the "GAC's" were for
                    (there is everything from GAC 100-900. He told me that the GAC 900 was
                    for fabric only, and not to use it for paper (he knew I was marbling -
                    and he is a marbler himself...). The reason he said not to use the 900
                    on paper was that it needs heat to really set the paint when it is mixed
                    with the 900......but it sounds as though some of you are using the 900
                    on paper successfully? I'm always interested in hearing "the rest of
                    the story" - and pros and cons.

                    Also - another perspective on ceramcoat......when my husband and I
                    started marbling 10 years ago or so - we bought ceramcoat paints,
                    because they were an inexpensive way to explore a new craft. We used
                    them on carageenan, and never had much trouble with them (after we got
                    through the marbling "initiation" phases......!) We were able to get
                    some very good results with Ceramcoat, and still use them sometimes. We
                    have switched, for the most part, to Golden fluid acrylics - and I find
                    that there is a definite difference in quality and "performance" between
                    the 2 brand names. My observations when comparing the two - Ceramcoat
                    paint is not as dense color as Golden - the pigments in ceramcoat paint
                    don't seem to be ground as fine - there is more "contamination" in
                    Ceramcoat (ie. chunks of pigment).....and Ceramcoat "spreadabilty"
                    varies significantly. Mary-Celine Thouin (Stubbs)

                    susaglenn wrote:

                    > Let me fine tune the suggested formula below: Start with 50% GAC 900
                    > and 50% alcohol (70%). Try using 2 parts of this mix with 1 part of
                    > the Ceramcoat paint. You might want to thin all of your paints down
                    > to 1 part paint and 3 parts of the 50-50 mix. It is up to you. I
                    > think that I was marbling on colored fabric when I was using the 33%
                    > paint mix and if you are marbling on white paper, the 25% paint may
                    > work just fine and be easier.
                    >
                    > Susa Glenn
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "susaglenn" <sglenn@c...> wrote:
                    > > Hi, I've used Ceramcoat paints with some good successes on fabric.
                    > I
                    > > used 1/3 Ceramcoat, 1/3 Golden Acrylics GAC 900 (fabric medium)
                    > and
                    > > 1/3 alcohol (70%). The alcohol is a double sided issue here. It
                    > > makes the acrylic paint pigment moil around on the surface of the
                    > > size when dropped so it doesn't sink and it also will react to
                    > some
                    > > paint pigments so that the mixture gloms in the jar and is a
                    > > hopeless mess. I think the paint tech people said that organic
                    > > (inorganic?) pigments react to alcohol. Try Ceramcoat Bright Red,
                    > > Bright Yellow, and now I've forgotten which blue. Test several.
                    > The
                    > > red blues are very agressive on their spread & the green blues
                    > glom
                    > > from the alcohol. I finally got one to work, I just can't remember
                    > > which. Their white is nice. Their black is nice. Actually, their
                    > > gold (Emperor's Gold, not the others) worked very well, was great
                    > > with the alcohol, & printed on white paper. Amazing. I alumed my
                    > > paper; I've forgotten the alum strength.
                    > >
                    > > This mix takes longer to fully expand when dropped on the size so
                    > > there were times that I would cover my tray for a minute to keep
                    > the
                    > > paint from drying & give the spread more time. As long as I let
                    > the
                    > > last paint spread, I could stack up more paint on the size. I
                    > guess
                    > > you could use distilled water instead, but then you are back to
                    > the
                    > > pigment staying in the center of the expanding circle of paint and
                    > > falling through to the bottom. The Golden GAC 900 makes the paint
                    > > spread and makes it more agressive on its spread so you can
                    > actually
                    > > balance your paints with it. I have marbled paper successfully
                    > with
                    > > this mix, but I mainly work on fabric and I've moved on to other
                    > > paint concoctions now. I think that Delta makes a fabric medium,
                    > but
                    > > it doesn't work the same as the Golden GAC 900; it is thicker,
                    > > heavier.
                    > >
                    > > Good luck! Susa Glenn
                    > >
                    > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "juliepoulton" <madronewood@a...>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > > Hi! I am brand new to marbling, so I have lots of questions. I do
                    > > > have a book and I have read several websites on marbling but
                    > > haven't
                    > > > been
                    > > > able to figure some things out. I am a bit desperate because I
                    > > have
                    > > > a group of friends coming over Weds. night to do marbling with
                    > me!
                    > > >
                    > > > The main problem I am having is the paint is rinsing right off
                    > the
                    > > > paper. In fact, on my last one, it began to run off the paper
                    > > before
                    > > > I
                    > > > even began to rinse it. And the gold paint I used did not stick
                    > to
                    > > > the
                    > > > paper at all! ( Though I will say the gold is quite thick, even
                    > > > diluted, so I guess it needs more dilution.)
                    > > >
                    > > > The book I have says the problem may lie with something in my
                    > > papers
                    > > > (but this is happening with 3 different papers), with my alum
                    > > > concentration(I used 1 T alum to 1 cup H2O), with having too
                    > much
                    > > > paint (it was a little thin and there were even some blank
                    > spaces),
                    > > > or
                    > > > if my paper was too damp (was almost dry).
                    > > >
                    > > > My choice of papers may leave something to be desired. I used
                    > > printer
                    > > > paper, watercolor paper, and drawing paper. Could the paper be
                    > the
                    > > > problem? Any suggestions for what type of appropriate paper I
                    > > could
                    > > > get at a Ben Franklin store?
                    > > >
                    > > > I am using carrageenan, and Delta Ceramcoat acrylic paints.
                    > > >
                    > > > I have very hard tap water, so used distilled water to mix the
                    > > > carrageenan and to dilute my acrylic paints. However, a couple
                    > > drops
                    > > > of hard water may have gotten in some paint colors. Can this
                    > cause
                    > > a
                    > > > problem? Also, can I rinse with hard water at the end?
                    > > >
                    > > > I am having a hard time cleaning the surface of the bath. I
                    > tried
                    > > to
                    > > > clean it with 4" strips of newspaper. I must have used at least
                    > > 12
                    > > > strips, but can't seem to get all the paint off the surface. any
                    > > > tips?
                    > > >
                    > > > I have a vat that is too big for my 8.5 X 11 papers. Is it ok to
                    > > > "fill
                    > > > in" the empty space with more paint after making one page, then
                    > > make
                    > > > another page, or does the surface have to be cleaned each time?
                    > > >
                    > > > Ok, that's a lot of questions!! But if I can just get the paint
                    > to
                    > > > stick to the papers, I will be happy!
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks in advance,
                    > > > madronewood
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    ADVERTISEMENT


                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  • susaglenn
                    I agree with all you ve said & I too use Golden Fluids now. The advantage that I see for a beginner to use Ceramcoat is that even though the pigment load is
                    Message 9 of 12 , Mar 5, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I agree with all you've said & I too use Golden Fluids now. The
                      advantage that I see for a beginner to use Ceramcoat is that even
                      though the pigment load is MUCH lower and there's sometimes some
                      glop that needs to be strained out and the paint needs to be stirred
                      up because it has separated from sitting on the shelf for who knows
                      how long, Ceramcoat will give you nice thread quality and won't
                      shatter so easily like the Golden fluids. There's something in there
                      that makes it smooth & easier to work with.

                      On the question about not using GAC 900 on paper: The GAC 900 has to
                      be heat set so the fabric will be washable. If you don't plan to
                      wash your marbled paper you don't need to heat set it. The alum on
                      the paper is going to hold the pigment to the paper fibers. I really
                      don't see why you couldn't use the 900 if you wanted to unless it
                      messes up the archival quality of the paper.

                      The alcohol that I use also helps with pigment problems as it acts
                      as a solvent.

                      Susa Glenn

                      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, del stubbs <mdstubbs@p...> wrote:
                      > Now a question about GAC 900....a week ago I talked with a tech
                      person
                      > at Golden paints asking specifically what all the "GAC's" were for
                      > (there is everything from GAC 100-900. He told me that the GAC
                      900 was
                      > for fabric only, and not to use it for paper (he knew I was
                      marbling -
                      > and he is a marbler himself...). The reason he said not to use
                      the 900
                      > on paper was that it needs heat to really set the paint when it is
                      mixed
                      > with the 900......but it sounds as though some of you are using
                      the 900
                      > on paper successfully? I'm always interested in hearing "the rest
                      of
                      > the story" - and pros and cons.
                      >
                      > Also - another perspective on ceramcoat......when my husband and I
                      > started marbling 10 years ago or so - we bought ceramcoat paints,
                      > because they were an inexpensive way to explore a new craft. We
                      used
                      > them on carageenan, and never had much trouble with them (after we
                      got
                      > through the marbling "initiation" phases......!) We were able to
                      get
                      > some very good results with Ceramcoat, and still use them
                      sometimes. We
                      > have switched, for the most part, to Golden fluid acrylics - and I
                      find
                      > that there is a definite difference in quality and "performance"
                      between
                      > the 2 brand names. My observations when comparing the two -
                      Ceramcoat
                      > paint is not as dense color as Golden - the pigments in ceramcoat
                      paint
                      > don't seem to be ground as fine - there is more "contamination" in
                      > Ceramcoat (ie. chunks of pigment).....and Ceramcoat "spreadabilty"
                      > varies significantly. Mary-Celine Thouin (Stubbs)
                      >
                      > susaglenn wrote:
                      >
                      > > Let me fine tune the suggested formula below: Start with 50%
                      GAC 900
                      > > and 50% alcohol (70%). Try using 2 parts of this mix with 1 part
                      of
                      > > the Ceramcoat paint. You might want to thin all of your paints
                      down
                      > > to 1 part paint and 3 parts of the 50-50 mix. It is up to you. I
                      > > think that I was marbling on colored fabric when I was using the
                      33%
                      > > paint mix and if you are marbling on white paper, the 25% paint
                      may
                      > > work just fine and be easier.
                      > >
                      > > Susa Glenn
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "susaglenn" <sglenn@c...> wrote:
                      > > > Hi, I've used Ceramcoat paints with some good successes on
                      fabric.
                      > > I
                      > > > used 1/3 Ceramcoat, 1/3 Golden Acrylics GAC 900 (fabric medium)
                      > > and
                      > > > 1/3 alcohol (70%). The alcohol is a double sided issue here. It
                      > > > makes the acrylic paint pigment moil around on the surface of
                      the
                      > > > size when dropped so it doesn't sink and it also will react to
                      > > some
                      > > > paint pigments so that the mixture gloms in the jar and is a
                      > > > hopeless mess. I think the paint tech people said that organic
                      > > > (inorganic?) pigments react to alcohol. Try Ceramcoat Bright
                      Red,
                      > > > Bright Yellow, and now I've forgotten which blue. Test several.
                      > > The
                      > > > red blues are very agressive on their spread & the green blues
                      > > glom
                      > > > from the alcohol. I finally got one to work, I just can't
                      remember
                      > > > which. Their white is nice. Their black is nice. Actually,
                      their
                      > > > gold (Emperor's Gold, not the others) worked very well, was
                      great
                      > > > with the alcohol, & printed on white paper. Amazing. I alumed
                      my
                      > > > paper; I've forgotten the alum strength.
                      > > >
                      > > > This mix takes longer to fully expand when dropped on the size
                      so
                      > > > there were times that I would cover my tray for a minute to
                      keep
                      > > the
                      > > > paint from drying & give the spread more time. As long as I let
                      > > the
                      > > > last paint spread, I could stack up more paint on the size. I
                      > > guess
                      > > > you could use distilled water instead, but then you are back to
                      > > the
                      > > > pigment staying in the center of the expanding circle of paint
                      and
                      > > > falling through to the bottom. The Golden GAC 900 makes the
                      paint
                      > > > spread and makes it more agressive on its spread so you can
                      > > actually
                      > > > balance your paints with it. I have marbled paper successfully
                      > > with
                      > > > this mix, but I mainly work on fabric and I've moved on to
                      other
                      > > > paint concoctions now. I think that Delta makes a fabric
                      medium,
                      > > but
                      > > > it doesn't work the same as the Golden GAC 900; it is thicker,
                      > > > heavier.
                      > > >
                      > > > Good luck! Susa Glenn
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "juliepoulton"
                      <madronewood@a...>
                      > > > wrote:
                      > > > > Hi! I am brand new to marbling, so I have lots of questions.
                      I do
                      > > > > have a book and I have read several websites on marbling but
                      > > > haven't
                      > > > > been
                      > > > > able to figure some things out. I am a bit desperate because
                      I
                      > > > have
                      > > > > a group of friends coming over Weds. night to do marbling
                      with
                      > > me!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The main problem I am having is the paint is rinsing right
                      off
                      > > the
                      > > > > paper. In fact, on my last one, it began to run off the paper
                      > > > before
                      > > > > I
                      > > > > even began to rinse it. And the gold paint I used did not
                      stick
                      > > to
                      > > > > the
                      > > > > paper at all! ( Though I will say the gold is quite thick,
                      even
                      > > > > diluted, so I guess it needs more dilution.)
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The book I have says the problem may lie with something in my
                      > > > papers
                      > > > > (but this is happening with 3 different papers), with my alum
                      > > > > concentration(I used 1 T alum to 1 cup H2O), with having too
                      > > much
                      > > > > paint (it was a little thin and there were even some blank
                      > > spaces),
                      > > > > or
                      > > > > if my paper was too damp (was almost dry).
                      > > > >
                      > > > > My choice of papers may leave something to be desired. I used
                      > > > printer
                      > > > > paper, watercolor paper, and drawing paper. Could the paper
                      be
                      > > the
                      > > > > problem? Any suggestions for what type of appropriate paper I
                      > > > could
                      > > > > get at a Ben Franklin store?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I am using carrageenan, and Delta Ceramcoat acrylic paints.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I have very hard tap water, so used distilled water to mix
                      the
                      > > > > carrageenan and to dilute my acrylic paints. However, a
                      couple
                      > > > drops
                      > > > > of hard water may have gotten in some paint colors. Can this
                      > > cause
                      > > > a
                      > > > > problem? Also, can I rinse with hard water at the end?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I am having a hard time cleaning the surface of the bath. I
                      > > tried
                      > > > to
                      > > > > clean it with 4" strips of newspaper. I must have used at
                      least
                      > > > 12
                      > > > > strips, but can't seem to get all the paint off the surface.
                      any
                      > > > > tips?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I have a vat that is too big for my 8.5 X 11 papers. Is it
                      ok to
                      > > > > "fill
                      > > > > in" the empty space with more paint after making one page,
                      then
                      > > > make
                      > > > > another page, or does the surface have to be cleaned each
                      time?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Ok, that's a lot of questions!! But if I can just get the
                      paint
                      > > to
                      > > > > stick to the papers, I will be happy!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Thanks in advance,
                      > > > > madronewood
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      > ADVERTISEMENT
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      Service.
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.