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Marbling in Switzerland

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  • Jake Benson
    Greetings, everyone! I wanted to throw in my 2 cents. I agree that looking for distributors of food suppliers for carragheenan is a good place to start- but
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 26, 2002
      Greetings, everyone!

      I wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

      I agree that looking for distributors of food suppliers for carragheenan is
      a good place to start- but you may find you have to test the various
      strengths to arrive at a successful method- so hard work and patience just
      as Milena said.

      At the Ascona bookbinding school, which Vi mentioned, they do proffer a type
      of marbling which is referred to "Ascona Marbling". It is done with a type
      of oil color floated on a fairly viscous size, which appears to me to be a
      cellulose ether of some sort- It may be Methyl cellulose, but also could be
      ethulose (Sold under a brand name of Tylose). Since the oil colors react
      very strongly compared to acrylic and from water colors, the tougher size
      seems to be a good balance. Anne Chambers also told me once that she found
      Ethulose a better size for acrylics.

      Ironically, I had always noticed a resemblance between Tini Miura's
      "Oleaugraphs" and the style of marbling using the "Ascona Method". I knew
      that Tini had studied in Ascona with the master binder Hugo Peller (in
      1963). At the IMG, I asked her about this, and if she learned the marbling
      there. She replied that she had developed the marbling on her own, and had
      actually taught Hugo's Wife how to do it at that time .... And from that
      emerged the so-called "Ascona Style".

      A) you can contact the Ascona school and get their kit. They also sell
      quality bookbinding tools and supplies.

      B) you can search dairy suppliers (no shortage of that in Switzerland!) for
      carragheenan, but may have to try several varieties.

      C) Karli Frigge and Geert Van Daal in Holland both used cooked moss- maybe
      dried Irish Moss can be found in a health food store?

      D) Marie Ange Doizy in France mentions using Guar gum. This is also an
      additive to foods. Ingrid Weimann told me that Christopher Weimann used
      Guar Gum, with acrylic colors. I also think Michel Duval used a Gum bath
      with oil colors. Suppliers in Paris could be Rouge et Plé (Bookbinding),
      Sennelier (art supplies and high quality pigments), or perhaps a bookbinding
      supplier such as Jullien Leather can refer you to sources.

      E) Nedim Sönmex in Germany has developed a line of "Sönmez Marbling
      Colors"- a type of water color, which he told me is based on Halfer's
      formulas. These appeared very nice and consistent, and would be suitable
      for traditional work. I am not sure if he is selling them to his students
      or not. He also uses carragheenan powder. As he is Germany, perhaps this
      is another source to chase. Personally, I make my own colors from dry
      pigments and have used a number of pigments available from the german
      company Kremer Pigmente. Kremer sells other supplies like Methyl Cellulose
      that can be used as a size with acrylics. Schminke also makes excellent,
      finely ground pigments, but I like Dr. Kremer's quantity prices.

      Everyone's name is listed in the directory that is aviable from Marie
      Palowoda.

      Most important of all, please let us all know WHAT you find in the end, as
      these kinds of questions appear periodically. We need to develop an
      awareness of supplies available in different countries around the world...


      Happy Hunting!

      Jake Benson


      Benson's Hand Bindery
      Fine Custom Bookbinding & Conservation
      Hand Marbled Papers
      1319 B Summerville Ave.
      Columbia S.C. 29201
      Phone: 803.799.1853
      jemiljan@...
    • James M Mahoney
      I would like to add to Jake s comments on using Guar Gum - for the beautiful papers Marianne Peters of France had and was selling at the Gathering, she said
      Message 2 of 4 , Sep 26, 2002
        I would like to add to Jake's comments on using Guar Gum - for the
        beautiful papers Marianne Peters of France had and was selling at the
        Gathering, she said she uses Guar gum. I suggest you get in touch with
        her (she is also listed in the Marblers Directory) for more information
        on that.

        Monita Mahoney
        On Thu, 26 Sep 2002 16:03:52 -0400 Jake Benson
        <jemiljan@...> writes:
        > Greetings, everyone!
        >
        > I wanted to throw in my 2 cents.
        >
        > I agree that looking for distributors of food suppliers for
        > carragheenan is
        > a good place to start- but you may find you have to test the
        > various
        > strengths to arrive at a successful method- so hard work and
        > patience just
        > as Milena said.
        >
        > At the Ascona bookbinding school, which Vi mentioned, they do
        > proffer a type
        > of marbling which is referred to "Ascona Marbling". It is done with
        > a type
        > of oil color floated on a fairly viscous size, which appears to me
        > to be a
        > cellulose ether of some sort- It may be Methyl cellulose, but also
        > could be
        > ethulose (Sold under a brand name of Tylose). Since the oil colors
        > react
        > very strongly compared to acrylic and from water colors, the tougher
        > size
        > seems to be a good balance. Anne Chambers also told me once that
        > she found
        > Ethulose a better size for acrylics.
        >
        > Ironically, I had always noticed a resemblance between Tini Miura's
        > "Oleaugraphs" and the style of marbling using the "Ascona Method".
        > I knew
        > that Tini had studied in Ascona with the master binder Hugo Peller
        > (in
        > 1963). At the IMG, I asked her about this, and if she learned the
        > marbling
        > there. She replied that she had developed the marbling on her own,
        > and had
        > actually taught Hugo's Wife how to do it at that time .... And from
        > that
        > emerged the so-called "Ascona Style".
        >
        > A) you can contact the Ascona school and get their kit. They also
        > sell
        > quality bookbinding tools and supplies.
        >
        > B) you can search dairy suppliers (no shortage of that in
        > Switzerland!) for
        > carragheenan, but may have to try several varieties.
        >
        > C) Karli Frigge and Geert Van Daal in Holland both used cooked moss-
        > maybe
        > dried Irish Moss can be found in a health food store?
        >
        > D) Marie Ange Doizy in France mentions using Guar gum. This is also
        > an
        > additive to foods. Ingrid Weimann told me that Christopher Weimann
        > used
        > Guar Gum, with acrylic colors. I also think Michel Duval used a Gum
        > bath
        > with oil colors. Suppliers in Paris could be Rouge et Plé
        > (Bookbinding),
        > Sennelier (art supplies and high quality pigments), or perhaps a
        > bookbinding
        > supplier such as Jullien Leather can refer you to sources.
        >
        > E) Nedim Sönmex in Germany has developed a line of "Sönmez
        > Marbling
        > Colors"- a type of water color, which he told me is based on
        > Halfer's
        > formulas. These appeared very nice and consistent, and would be
        > suitable
        > for traditional work. I am not sure if he is selling them to his
        > students
        > or not. He also uses carragheenan powder. As he is Germany,
        > perhaps this
        > is another source to chase. Personally, I make my own colors from
        > dry
        > pigments and have used a number of pigments available from the
        > german
        > company Kremer Pigmente. Kremer sells other supplies like Methyl
        > Cellulose
        > that can be used as a size with acrylics. Schminke also makes
        > excellent,
        > finely ground pigments, but I like Dr. Kremer's quantity prices.
        >
        > Everyone's name is listed in the directory that is aviable from
        > Marie
        > Palowoda.
        >
        > Most important of all, please let us all know WHAT you find in the
        > end, as
        > these kinds of questions appear periodically. We need to develop
        > an
        > awareness of supplies available in different countries around the
        > world...
        >
        >
        > Happy Hunting!
        >
        > Jake Benson
        >
        >
        > Benson's Hand Bindery
        > Fine Custom Bookbinding & Conservation
        > Hand Marbled Papers
        > 1319 B Summerville Ave.
        > Columbia S.C. 29201
        > Phone: 803.799.1853
        > jemiljan@...
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • V. Wilson
        Jake - In The Book (now in my possession) both Geert and Lia van Daal state that their samples were produced using powdered carrageen. It would be worth
        Message 3 of 4 , Sep 27, 2002
          Jake - In "The Book" (now in my possession) both Geert and Lia van Daal
          state that their samples were produced using powdered carrageen. It would
          be worth enquiring of them where they obtain it.

          Vi W
        • MARLENE
          Hello everyone, Thanks a million for all this good advice, I was in Germany for the weekend and seized the opportunity to investigate the marbling equipment
          Message 4 of 4 , Sep 30, 2002
            Hello everyone,

            Thanks a million for all this good advice,

            I was in Germany for the weekend and seized the opportunity to
            investigate the marbling equipment they have in Munich. It seems it has
            also gone out of fashion there but I eventually found a Deka set (the
            size powder is still a mystery though) I’m looking forward to testing.

            I’ll say more when I have read the book I’ve ordered ("The Ultimate
            Marbling Handbook" by Diane Maurer-Mathison). I had to order by chance
            since there wasn’t anything at all at my local bookshops.



            Tried Pebeo again and tests are better but sometimes the paint just
            “peels” off the paper when the sheet or fabric is being rinsed (???).

            A still very determined Marlene ;-)

            -----Message d'origine-----
            De : Jake Benson [mailto:jemiljan@...]
            Envoyé : jeudi, 26. septembre 2002 22:04
            À : Marbling list
            Objet : [Marbling] Marbling in Switzerland



            Greetings, everyone!

            I wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

            I agree that looking for distributors of food suppliers for carragheenan
            is
            a good place to start- but you may find you have to test the various
            strengths to arrive at a successful method- so hard work and patience
            just
            as Milena said.

            At the Ascona bookbinding school, which Vi mentioned, they do proffer a
            type
            of marbling which is referred to "Ascona Marbling". It is done with a
            type
            of oil color floated on a fairly viscous size, which appears to me to be
            a
            cellulose ether of some sort- It may be Methyl cellulose, but also could
            be
            ethulose (Sold under a brand name of Tylose). Since the oil colors
            react
            very strongly compared to acrylic and from water colors, the tougher
            size
            seems to be a good balance. Anne Chambers also told me once that she
            found
            Ethulose a better size for acrylics.

            Ironically, I had always noticed a resemblance between Tini Miura's
            "Oleaugraphs" and the style of marbling using the "Ascona Method". I
            knew
            that Tini had studied in Ascona with the master binder Hugo Peller (in
            1963). At the IMG, I asked her about this, and if she learned the
            marbling
            there. She replied that she had developed the marbling on her own, and
            had
            actually taught Hugo's Wife how to do it at that time .... And from that
            emerged the so-called "Ascona Style".

            A) you can contact the Ascona school and get their kit. They also sell
            quality bookbinding tools and supplies.

            B) you can search dairy suppliers (no shortage of that in Switzerland!)
            for
            carragheenan, but may have to try several varieties.

            C) Karli Frigge and Geert Van Daal in Holland both used cooked moss-
            maybe
            dried Irish Moss can be found in a health food store?

            D) Marie Ange Doizy in France mentions using Guar gum. This is also an
            additive to foods. Ingrid Weimann told me that Christopher Weimann used
            Guar Gum, with acrylic colors. I also think Michel Duval used a Gum
            bath
            with oil colors. Suppliers in Paris could be Rouge et Plé
            (Bookbinding),
            Sennelier (art supplies and high quality pigments), or perhaps a
            bookbinding
            supplier such as Jullien Leather can refer you to sources.

            E) Nedim Sönmex in Germany has developed a line of "Sönmez Marbling
            Colors"- a type of water color, which he told me is based on Halfer's
            formulas. These appeared very nice and consistent, and would be
            suitable
            for traditional work. I am not sure if he is selling them to his
            students
            or not. He also uses carragheenan powder. As he is Germany, perhaps
            this
            is another source to chase. Personally, I make my own colors from dry
            pigments and have used a number of pigments available from the german
            company Kremer Pigmente. Kremer sells other supplies like Methyl
            Cellulose
            that can be used as a size with acrylics. Schminke also makes
            excellent,
            finely ground pigments, but I like Dr. Kremer's quantity prices.

            Everyone's name is listed in the directory that is aviable from Marie
            Palowoda.

            Most important of all, please let us all know WHAT you find in the end,
            as
            these kinds of questions appear periodically. We need to develop an
            awareness of supplies available in different countries around the
            world...


            Happy Hunting!

            Jake Benson


            Benson's Hand Bindery
            Fine Custom Bookbinding & Conservation
            Hand Marbled Papers
            1319 B Summerville Ave.
            Columbia S.C. 29201
            Phone: 803.799.1853
            jemiljan@...








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