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Re: [Marbling] Hello from Switzerland...

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  • Jan Bond
    Hi Marlene, I ve used the Pebeo marbling paints, and found they work well. Although you describe them as somewhat liquid, they re the same consistency as other
    Message 1 of 23 , Sep 18, 2002
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      Hi Marlene,

      I've used the Pebeo marbling paints, and found they work well. Although you
      describe them as somewhat liquid, they're the same consistency as other
      products. You're right about the limited color palette, though. Pebeo also
      has a product called Setacolor, iridescents in a wide range of colors,
      meant for fabrics. Many of them make good marbling paints if they are mixed
      half and half or more with water, and they are another way to give you more
      variety. The gold and the copper work especially well and give nice effects.

      You don't say what kind of size was in your starter kit, only that you had
      problems with it. I used to use sodium alginate, as carrageenan doesn't
      seem to be available anywhere in Canada. After all the comments on this
      list about the superiority of carageenan, I finally ordered some (I got
      mine from Galen Berry). It really made a big difference.

      I also ordered some of his acrylic paints, and some of his tools, and they
      are all good products.

      If you are ordering from Galen, I highly recommend buying his instruction
      pamphlet. It has very clear information about techniques, and also about
      mixing your own paints.

      At the moment I still have some Pebeo on hand, some of Galen's paints, and
      some Liquitiex artist acrylics that I mix with water, and they all work. I
      also haven't had any problems using more than one type of acrylic at the
      same time.

      Good luck.

      Jan

      At 11:23 AM 9/18/2002 +0200, you wrote:
      >Hi all
      >
      >My name's Marlene (40, hubby, two kids and a cat :-)) and I'd like to
      >introduce myself to you as a new member.
      >
      >I just finished my second tests in marbling and I must say it is
      >difficult to obtain something nice with the stuff I am using (Pebeo
      >starter kit). This technique is not well known around here and I will
      >probably have to get books through Amazon to know a little more. Or find
      >other paints.
      >
      >First of all I had problems with the thickener which clodded and gave me
      >a hell of a time. and then there are only 9 colours in the kit I bought
      >so you have to mix a lot before you get a nice set of shades that go
      >together. The rake went through the somewhat liquid paints (they're
      >ready made) and not much came out of it.
      >
      >But most of all I am a beginner and need to learn a lot more.
      >
      >I am not a beginner in other handicrafts like making clothes, silk
      >painting, knitting etc.. but my past experience clearly is not of much
      >use in marbling.
      >
      >I wonder if anyone would care to listen to a few of my questions. or
      >spending some time explaining to me what you share on this list.
      >
      >I was looking for info and discovered Galen Berry's site
      >http://hometown.aol.com/marbling/marbling/index.htm
      >
      >and looked - with awe - at all the gorgeous examples he made, does
      >anyone know his work and use the supplies they sell?
      >
      >I wish you all a great day wherever you are and hope to hear about you.
      >
      >Marlene
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
    • Melinda Jensen
      Jan, Could you please tell me how much water you mix with the Liquatex? I have the Utrecht paints which I thought would be liquid and am guessing at water
      Message 2 of 23 , Sep 18, 2002
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        Jan,
        Could you please tell me how much water you mix with the Liquatex? I have the Utrecht paints which I thought would be liquid and am guessing at water ratio.
        Thanks,
        Melinda
        soaplady@...
        www.southvalleysoaps.com
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Jan Bond
        To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 12:53 PM
        Subject: Re: [Marbling] Hello from Switzerland...


        Hi Marlene,

        I've used the Pebeo marbling paints, and found they work well. Although you
        describe them as somewhat liquid, they're the same consistency as other
        products. You're right about the limited color palette, though. Pebeo also
        has a product called Setacolor, iridescents in a wide range of colors,
        meant for fabrics. Many of them make good marbling paints if they are mixed
        half and half or more with water, and they are another way to give you more
        variety. The gold and the copper work especially well and give nice effects.

        You don't say what kind of size was in your starter kit, only that you had
        problems with it. I used to use sodium alginate, as carrageenan doesn't
        seem to be available anywhere in Canada. After all the comments on this
        list about the superiority of carageenan, I finally ordered some (I got
        mine from Galen Berry). It really made a big difference.

        I also ordered some of his acrylic paints, and some of his tools, and they
        are all good products.

        If you are ordering from Galen, I highly recommend buying his instruction
        pamphlet. It has very clear information about techniques, and also about
        mixing your own paints.

        At the moment I still have some Pebeo on hand, some of Galen's paints, and
        some Liquitiex artist acrylics that I mix with water, and they all work. I
        also haven't had any problems using more than one type of acrylic at the
        same time.

        Good luck.

        Jan

        At 11:23 AM 9/18/2002 +0200, you wrote:
        >Hi all
        >
        >My name's Marlene (40, hubby, two kids and a cat :-)) and I'd like to
        >introduce myself to you as a new member.
        >
        >I just finished my second tests in marbling and I must say it is
        >difficult to obtain something nice with the stuff I am using (Pebeo
        >starter kit). This technique is not well known around here and I will
        >probably have to get books through Amazon to know a little more. Or find
        >other paints.
        >
        >First of all I had problems with the thickener which clodded and gave me
        >a hell of a time. and then there are only 9 colours in the kit I bought
        >so you have to mix a lot before you get a nice set of shades that go
        >together. The rake went through the somewhat liquid paints (they're
        >ready made) and not much came out of it.
        >
        >But most of all I am a beginner and need to learn a lot more.
        >
        >I am not a beginner in other handicrafts like making clothes, silk
        >painting, knitting etc.. but my past experience clearly is not of much
        >use in marbling.
        >
        >I wonder if anyone would care to listen to a few of my questions. or
        >spending some time explaining to me what you share on this list.
        >
        >I was looking for info and discovered Galen Berry's site
        >http://hometown.aol.com/marbling/marbling/index.htm
        >
        >and looked - with awe - at all the gorgeous examples he made, does
        >anyone know his work and use the supplies they sell?
        >
        >I wish you all a great day wherever you are and hope to hear about you.
        >
        >Marlene
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >



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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jan Bond
        Melinda, I haven t used Utrecht paints, but they are one of the three brands (Liquitex, Rembrandt, Utrecht) that Galen Berry recommends using. The ratio is
        Message 3 of 23 , Sep 18, 2002
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          Melinda,

          I haven't used Utrecht paints, but they are one of the three brands
          (Liquitex, Rembrandt, Utrecht) that Galen Berry recommends using.

          The ratio is about 4 parts water to one part paint, but will vary with the
          intensity you want. I don't measure, and haven't had any problems, so it
          seems a forgiving process.

          Jan

          At 01:33 PM 9/18/2002 -0700, you wrote:
          >Jan,
          >Could you please tell me how much water you mix with the Liquatex? I have
          >the Utrecht paints which I thought would be liquid and am guessing at water
          >ratio.
          >Thanks,
          >Melinda
          >soaplady@...
          >www.southvalleysoaps.com
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Jan Bond
          > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 12:53 PM
          > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Hello from Switzerland...
          >
          >
          > Hi Marlene,
          >
          > I've used the Pebeo marbling paints, and found they work well. Although you
          > describe them as somewhat liquid, they're the same consistency as other
          > products. You're right about the limited color palette, though. Pebeo also
          > has a product called Setacolor, iridescents in a wide range of colors,
          > meant for fabrics. Many of them make good marbling paints if they are mixed
          > half and half or more with water, and they are another way to give you more
          > variety. The gold and the copper work especially well and give nice effects.
          >
          > You don't say what kind of size was in your starter kit, only that you had
          > problems with it. I used to use sodium alginate, as carrageenan doesn't
          > seem to be available anywhere in Canada. After all the comments on this
          > list about the superiority of carageenan, I finally ordered some (I got
          > mine from Galen Berry). It really made a big difference.
          >
          > I also ordered some of his acrylic paints, and some of his tools, and they
          > are all good products.
          >
          > If you are ordering from Galen, I highly recommend buying his instruction
          > pamphlet. It has very clear information about techniques, and also about
          > mixing your own paints.
          >
          > At the moment I still have some Pebeo on hand, some of Galen's paints, and
          > some Liquitiex artist acrylics that I mix with water, and they all work. I
          > also haven't had any problems using more than one type of acrylic at the
          > same time.
          >
          > Good luck.
          >
          > Jan
          >
          > At 11:23 AM 9/18/2002 +0200, you wrote:
          > >Hi all
          > >
          > >My name's Marlene (40, hubby, two kids and a cat :-)) and I'd like to
          > >introduce myself to you as a new member.
          > >
          > >I just finished my second tests in marbling and I must say it is
          > >difficult to obtain something nice with the stuff I am using (Pebeo
          > >starter kit). This technique is not well known around here and I will
          > >probably have to get books through Amazon to know a little more. Or find
          > >other paints.
          > >
          > >First of all I had problems with the thickener which clodded and gave me
          > >a hell of a time. and then there are only 9 colours in the kit I bought
          > >so you have to mix a lot before you get a nice set of shades that go
          > >together. The rake went through the somewhat liquid paints (they're
          > >ready made) and not much came out of it.
          > >
          > >But most of all I am a beginner and need to learn a lot more.
          > >
          > >I am not a beginner in other handicrafts like making clothes, silk
          > >painting, knitting etc.. but my past experience clearly is not of much
          > >use in marbling.
          > >
          > >I wonder if anyone would care to listen to a few of my questions. or
          > >spending some time explaining to me what you share on this list.
          > >
          > >I was looking for info and discovered Galen Berry's site
          > >http://hometown.aol.com/marbling/marbling/index.htm
          > >
          > >and looked - with awe - at all the gorgeous examples he made, does
          > >anyone know his work and use the supplies they sell?
          > >
          > >I wish you all a great day wherever you are and hope to hear about you.
          > >
          > >Marlene
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >
          >
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
        • Melinda Jensen
          Thank you Jan, That is why I purchased them is Galen Berry s booklet. I also got his tools but thought I could do so much better on price for paints and now
          Message 4 of 23 , Sep 18, 2002
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            Thank you Jan,
            That is why I purchased them is Galen Berry's booklet.
            I also got his tools but thought I could do so much better on price for paints and now wish I could send these back to try his. Oh well, live and learn.
            Melinda
            soaplady@...
            www.southvalleysoaps.com
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Jan Bond
            To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 2:39 PM
            Subject: [Marbling] Paint/water ratios


            Melinda,

            I haven't used Utrecht paints, but they are one of the three brands
            (Liquitex, Rembrandt, Utrecht) that Galen Berry recommends using.

            The ratio is about 4 parts water to one part paint, but will vary with the
            intensity you want. I don't measure, and haven't had any problems, so it
            seems a forgiving process.

            Jan

            At 01:33 PM 9/18/2002 -0700, you wrote:
            >Jan,
            >Could you please tell me how much water you mix with the Liquatex? I have
            >the Utrecht paints which I thought would be liquid and am guessing at water
            >ratio.
            >Thanks,
            >Melinda
            >soaplady@...
            >www.southvalleysoaps.com
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Jan Bond
            > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 12:53 PM
            > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Hello from Switzerland...
            >
            >
            > Hi Marlene,
            >
            > I've used the Pebeo marbling paints, and found they work well. Although you
            > describe them as somewhat liquid, they're the same consistency as other
            > products. You're right about the limited color palette, though. Pebeo also
            > has a product called Setacolor, iridescents in a wide range of colors,
            > meant for fabrics. Many of them make good marbling paints if they are mixed
            > half and half or more with water, and they are another way to give you more
            > variety. The gold and the copper work especially well and give nice effects.
            >
            > You don't say what kind of size was in your starter kit, only that you had
            > problems with it. I used to use sodium alginate, as carrageenan doesn't
            > seem to be available anywhere in Canada. After all the comments on this
            > list about the superiority of carageenan, I finally ordered some (I got
            > mine from Galen Berry). It really made a big difference.
            >
            > I also ordered some of his acrylic paints, and some of his tools, and they
            > are all good products.
            >
            > If you are ordering from Galen, I highly recommend buying his instruction
            > pamphlet. It has very clear information about techniques, and also about
            > mixing your own paints.
            >
            > At the moment I still have some Pebeo on hand, some of Galen's paints, and
            > some Liquitiex artist acrylics that I mix with water, and they all work. I
            > also haven't had any problems using more than one type of acrylic at the
            > same time.
            >
            > Good luck.
            >
            > Jan
            >
            > At 11:23 AM 9/18/2002 +0200, you wrote:
            > >Hi all
            > >
            > >My name's Marlene (40, hubby, two kids and a cat :-)) and I'd like to
            > >introduce myself to you as a new member.
            > >
            > >I just finished my second tests in marbling and I must say it is
            > >difficult to obtain something nice with the stuff I am using (Pebeo
            > >starter kit). This technique is not well known around here and I will
            > >probably have to get books through Amazon to know a little more. Or find
            > >other paints.
            > >
            > >First of all I had problems with the thickener which clodded and gave me
            > >a hell of a time. and then there are only 9 colours in the kit I bought
            > >so you have to mix a lot before you get a nice set of shades that go
            > >together. The rake went through the somewhat liquid paints (they're
            > >ready made) and not much came out of it.
            > >
            > >But most of all I am a beginner and need to learn a lot more.
            > >
            > >I am not a beginner in other handicrafts like making clothes, silk
            > >painting, knitting etc.. but my past experience clearly is not of much
            > >use in marbling.
            > >
            > >I wonder if anyone would care to listen to a few of my questions. or
            > >spending some time explaining to me what you share on this list.
            > >
            > >I was looking for info and discovered Galen Berry's site
            > >http://hometown.aol.com/marbling/marbling/index.htm
            > >
            > >and looked - with awe - at all the gorgeous examples he made, does
            > >anyone know his work and use the supplies they sell?
            > >
            > >I wish you all a great day wherever you are and hope to hear about you.
            > >
            > >Marlene
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > ADVERTISEMENT
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            >
            >
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >



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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • otkinkay@aol.com
            Dear Melinda, I forgot to invite you over if you can come. I work during the day but perhaps some weekend. It is always more fun working together. Judy K
            Message 5 of 23 , Sep 19, 2002
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              Dear Melinda,
              I forgot to invite you over if you can come. I work during the day but perhaps some weekend. It is always more fun working together.
              Judy K
            • Melinda Jensen
              Judy..Where are you located. I d love to get together with someone else and share info and technique. I am in southern Oregon near CA. border Melinda
              Message 6 of 23 , Sep 19, 2002
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                Judy..Where are you located. I'd love to get together with someone else and share info and technique. I am in southern Oregon near CA. border
                Melinda
                soaplady@...
                www.southvalleysoaps.com
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: otkinkay@...
                To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 10:43 AM
                Subject: Re: [Marbling] Paint/water ratios


                Dear Melinda,
                I forgot to invite you over if you can come. I work during the day but perhaps some weekend. It is always more fun working together.
                Judy K

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              • otkinkay@aol.com
                I m sorry I mixed you up with someone in Manhattan.Love Judy
                Message 7 of 23 , Sep 20, 2002
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                  I'm sorry I mixed you up with someone in Manhattan.Love Judy
                • Ann Lederer
                  Galen s supplies and work are both excellent! Ann Lederer (Beaver) ... Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! [Non-text portions of this
                  Message 8 of 23 , Sep 24, 2002
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                    Galen's supplies and work are both excellent! Ann Lederer (Beaver)



                    ---------------------------------
                    Do you Yahoo!?
                    New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Melinda Jensen
                    Have you used his paint? I am so frustrated with trying different paints...I just want to be able to try marbling for awhile without fighting the paint.
                    Message 9 of 23 , Sep 24, 2002
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                      Have you used his paint? I am so frustrated with trying different paints...I just want to be able to try marbling for awhile without fighting the paint.
                      Melinda
                      soaplady@...
                      www.southvalleysoaps.com
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Ann Lederer
                      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 9:26 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Marbling] Hello from Switzerland...



                      Galen's supplies and work are both excellent! Ann Lederer (Beaver)



                      ---------------------------------
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                      New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • MARLENE
                      Hello Iris, John Ang, Sandy and Jan, and all the other members Thanks for your messages and sorry for the delay. Jonacs was the other site that made me rush
                      Message 10 of 23 , Sep 25, 2002
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                        Hello Iris, John Ang, Sandy and Jan, and all the other members



                        Thanks for your messages and sorry for the delay.



                        Jonacs was the other site that made me rush into the shop and try to
                        find the marbling kit…(apart from Galen Berry) thank you John also for
                        your offer to answer my questions. I have a few today! I believe you
                        live in Singapore and I went there a few years ago. What a change of
                        climate and scenery. I loved it. We unfortunately didn’t see much of the
                        sun because forest fires in Malaysia brought all the dust and fumes
                        over.



                        I won’t give up marbling even if the result is still rather poor! And
                        as for supplies from the States, you know white powders have no chance
                        at all at the customs – Galen also said so. I’ll just have to make do
                        with Pebeo or find out my own stuff otherwise. Has anyone tried to make
                        the size with starch paste? Or tried with oil paints?



                        Unfortunately marbling seems to be totally unknown here . It was
                        fashionable here in the eighties but you cannot find books or other
                        providers than Pebeo. Luckily I found some literature at Amazon and
                        Galen kindly agreed to send his booklet over.



                        Jan, as for Pebeo the size is mysterious since they do not mention what
                        it is. They call it thickener! I found that some colors did “eat” others
                        which then go under. It does not float properly and certainly not “side
                        by side”



                        With Pebeo, the paper is not sponged with alum before it is used and the
                        rake does not have a significant effect (a wooden stick and pins (like
                        the ones for sewing) was provided and you had to make it first.



                        I haven’t tried with material yet but eventually I would like to use it
                        too.



                        I also tried different acrilics and had to dilute them. It is not very
                        easy to get the right quality.



                        How many times can one use the size with Carageenan?



                        I am definitely not giving up but need some more practice and advice ;-)



                        Take care

                        Marlene

                        -----Message d'origine-----
                        De : Jan Bond [mailto:jan@...]
                        Envoyé : mercredi, 18. septembre 2002 21:54
                        À : Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                        Objet : Re: [Marbling] Hello from Switzerland...



                        Hi Marlene,

                        I've used the Pebeo marbling paints, and found they work well. Although
                        you
                        describe them as somewhat liquid, they're the same consistency as other
                        products. You're right about the limited color palette, though. Pebeo
                        also
                        has a product called Setacolor, iridescents in a wide range of colors,
                        meant for fabrics. Many of them make good marbling paints if they are
                        mixed
                        half and half or more with water, and they are another way to give you
                        more
                        variety. The gold and the copper work especially well and give nice
                        effects.

                        You don't say what kind of size was in your starter kit, only that you
                        had
                        problems with it. I used to use sodium alginate, as carrageenan doesn't
                        seem to be available anywhere in Canada. After all the comments on this
                        list about the superiority of carageenan, I finally ordered some (I got
                        mine from Galen Berry). It really made a big difference.

                        I also ordered some of his acrylic paints, and some of his tools, and
                        they
                        are all good products.

                        If you are ordering from Galen, I highly recommend buying his
                        instruction
                        pamphlet. It has very clear information about techniques, and also about
                        mixing your own paints.

                        At the moment I still have some Pebeo on hand, some of Galen's paints,
                        and
                        some Liquitiex artist acrylics that I mix with water, and they all work.
                        I
                        also haven't had any problems using more than one type of acrylic at the
                        same time.

                        Good luck.

                        Jan





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • V. Wilson
                        Hi Marlene Have you tried contacting your customs people to see if you could get some kind of ruling about the importation of carrageen. Perhaps Nancy at
                        Message 11 of 23 , Sep 25, 2002
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                          Hi Marlene

                          Have you tried contacting your customs people to see if you could get some
                          kind of ruling about the importation of carrageen. Perhaps Nancy at
                          Colophon could advise, as she ships to Australia. You could ask the
                          supplier to provide a certificate stating the contents and its
                          use. Another alternative is to contact some of the European marblers to
                          find out how they source their supplies. Geert van Daal and Karli Frigge
                          from the Netherlands use powdered carrageen, and Marie Ange Doizy of France
                          may use powdered, or boiled carrageen. Their names will be in the marbling
                          directory which has just been produced by Marie Palowoda. Carrageen in its
                          natural state should be available in Europe, and there are many recipes
                          around on how to produce the size.

                          I don't think you need to give up on carrageen yet!! :-)

                          Please contact me personally or via the list if you need further information

                          Vi Wilson

                          Try contacting this bookbinding school in Switzerland.
                          jnfo@...
                          www.cbl-ascona.ch/
                          Phone +41 091 825 11 62
                        • V. Wilson
                          Marlene I am sure you realized that the email should have read info@cbl-ascona.ch Sorry for the typo Vi W
                          Message 12 of 23 , Sep 25, 2002
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                            Marlene

                            I am sure you realized that the email should have read

                            info@...

                            Sorry for the typo

                            Vi W
                          • mpmh60201
                            Hello to all of using suffering with formulas and decisions about what brand to use: I have been marbling about two decades and have shelves of paints I have
                            Message 13 of 23 , Sep 25, 2002
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                              Hello to all of using suffering with formulas and decisions about what
                              brand to use: I have been marbling about two decades and have shelves
                              of paints I have tested and used in some way. Everything works...it
                              is patience that needs adjusting! There is no set formula for any
                              paint, ink, etc. That is where ALL the variables come into play.
                              Galen, Iris and many others have put thousands of hours into their
                              craft and that is why they are GOOD at what they do best! Nothing
                              comes easy in the field of paper marbling unless you settle for
                              mediocity. The pros have not. Professor Mehmed Ali Kagitci, writing
                              in Palette Magazine many, many years ago- about marbling in Turkey,
                              said: "To all appearances, marbling is an easy process; the materials
                              could hardly be simpler. And yet there is scarcely any other craft
                              which is so exposed to extraneous influences and which success depends
                              so much on chance. Consequently,the majority of those who attempt to
                              learn the technique give it up again after a short time. This also
                              explains why their have always been so few ebru masters." I suggest
                              that the MAJORITY of you study the history of marbling (it is
                              fascinating), rather than jump around to find just the right formulas
                              to make your day a bit easier! "No pain, no gain" is certainly true!
                              I'm "still struggling after all these years..."
                              (and loving it)!
                            • johnacs@pacific.net.sg
                              Dear Marlene, I went to Switzerland a few years ago. Beautiful countryside and mountains. Actually the forest fire came from neighbouring Indonesia. They burn
                              Message 14 of 23 , Sep 25, 2002
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                                Dear Marlene,
                                I went to Switzerland a few years ago. Beautiful countryside and mountains.
                                Actually the forest fire came from neighbouring Indonesia. They burn the
                                forest to clear land for farming. Happens every year around mid-year.

                                >Hello Iris, John Ang, Sandy and Jan, and all the other members
                                >
                                >
                                >Jonacs was the other site that made me rush into the shop and try to
                                >find the marbling kit…(apart from Galen Berry) thank you John also for
                                >your offer to answer my questions. I have a few today! I believe you
                                >live in Singapore and I went there a few years ago. What a change of
                                >climate and scenery. I loved it. We unfortunately didn’t see much of the
                                >sun because forest fires in Malaysia brought all the dust and fumes
                                >over.
                                >

                                I had a hard time searching for Carageenan too. But finally found one
                                supplier which sells this stuff to manufacturers of puddings, jellies,
                                ice-creams. Try searching your local yellow pages under "Food gums",
                                "baking ingredient supplies" etc. Take note the supplier might have many
                                grades of carageenan. What I did was asked for some samples of a few grades
                                and tested them for suitability and cost.


                                >I won’t give up marbling even if the result is still rather poor! And
                                >as for supplies from the States, you know white powders have no chance
                                >at all at the customs ­ Galen also said so. I’ll just have to make do
                                >with Pebeo or find out my own stuff otherwise. Has anyone tried to make
                                >the size with starch paste? Or tried with oil paints?


                                The size can last about 4 days (in my case) before it starts to lose its
                                viscosity and starts to smell.

                                >How many times can one use the size with Carageenan?
                                >
                                >
                              • Gail MacKenzie
                                Hello Milena and all, Yes, you are right, everything works, maybe just not quite the way you hoped it would!! I am on my third day of playing chemist and
                                Message 15 of 23 , Sep 25, 2002
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                                  Hello Milena and all,

                                  Yes, you are right, everything works, maybe just not quite the way you hoped
                                  it would!! I am on my third day of playing chemist and slowly turning into
                                  the mad scientist trying to get the result that I want. Who knows, maybe
                                  tomorrow!! I have been working on a acrylic tiger¹s eye for 10 years now.

                                  Best wishes to all. The conference was wonderful and such a pleasure to
                                  meet so many whom I only knew by name. Besides that; I really had fun!!

                                  Regards, Gail


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Jan Bond
                                  Marlene, I haven t had the paint problems you describe with the Pebeo paints--with sodium alginate as the size or with carrageenan. I didn t buy a whole kit
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Sep 25, 2002
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                                    Marlene,

                                    I haven't had the paint problems you describe with the Pebeo paints--with
                                    sodium alginate as the size or with carrageenan. I didn't buy a whole kit
                                    (haven't seen one here from Pebeo), but bought all the bits separately. Too
                                    bad it's a mystery what they have given you for size.

                                    I definitely have to alum the papers. You'd know you needed alum if your
                                    pattern ran or washed off when you rinsed it. It sounds as if you've got
                                    problems before you get that far, though.

                                    Florence and Venice are marbling centers, so perhaps supplies are available
                                    from Italy.

                                    Jan



                                    Jan

                                    At 10:57 PM 9/25/2002 +0200, you wrote:
                                    >Hello Iris, John Ang, Sandy and Jan, and all the other members
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Thanks for your messages and sorry for the delay.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Jonacs was the other site that made me rush into the shop and try to
                                    >find the marbling kit…(apart from Galen Berry) thank you John also for
                                    >your offer to answer my questions. I have a few today! I believe you
                                    >live in Singapore and I went there a few years ago. What a change of
                                    >climate and scenery. I loved it. We unfortunately didn’t see much of the
                                    >sun because forest fires in Malaysia brought all the dust and fumes
                                    >over.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >I won’t give up marbling even if the result is still rather poor! And
                                    >as for supplies from the States, you know white powders have no chance
                                    >at all at the customs ­ Galen also said so. I’ll just have to make do
                                    >with Pebeo or find out my own stuff otherwise. Has anyone tried to make
                                    >the size with starch paste? Or tried with oil paints?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Unfortunately marbling seems to be totally unknown here . It was
                                    >fashionable here in the eighties but you cannot find books or other
                                    >providers than Pebeo. Luckily I found some literature at Amazon and
                                    >Galen kindly agreed to send his booklet over.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Jan, as for Pebeo the size is mysterious since they do not mention what
                                    >it is. They call it thickener! I found that some colors did “eat” others
                                    >which then go under. It does not float properly and certainly not “side
                                    >by side”
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >With Pebeo, the paper is not sponged with alum before it is used and the
                                    >rake does not have a significant effect (a wooden stick and pins (like
                                    >the ones for sewing) was provided and you had to make it first.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >I haven’t tried with material yet but eventually I would like to use it
                                    >too.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >I also tried different acrilics and had to dilute them. It is not very
                                    >easy to get the right quality.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >How many times can one use the size with Carageenan?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >I am definitely not giving up but need some more practice and advice ;-)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Take care
                                    >
                                    >Marlene
                                    >
                                    >-----Message d'origine-----
                                    >De : Jan Bond [mailto:jan@...]
                                    >Envoyé : mercredi, 18. septembre 2002 21:54
                                    >À : Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                    >Objet : Re: [Marbling] Hello from Switzerland...
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Hi Marlene,
                                    >
                                    >I've used the Pebeo marbling paints, and found they work well. Although
                                    >you
                                    >describe them as somewhat liquid, they're the same consistency as other
                                    >products. You're right about the limited color palette, though. Pebeo
                                    >also
                                    >has a product called Setacolor, iridescents in a wide range of colors,
                                    >meant for fabrics. Many of them make good marbling paints if they are
                                    >mixed
                                    >half and half or more with water, and they are another way to give you
                                    >more
                                    >variety. The gold and the copper work especially well and give nice
                                    >effects.
                                    >
                                    >You don't say what kind of size was in your starter kit, only that you
                                    >had
                                    >problems with it. I used to use sodium alginate, as carrageenan doesn't
                                    >seem to be available anywhere in Canada. After all the comments on this
                                    >list about the superiority of carageenan, I finally ordered some (I got
                                    >mine from Galen Berry). It really made a big difference.
                                    >
                                    >I also ordered some of his acrylic paints, and some of his tools, and
                                    >they
                                    >are all good products.
                                    >
                                    >If you are ordering from Galen, I highly recommend buying his
                                    >instruction
                                    >pamphlet. It has very clear information about techniques, and also about
                                    >mixing your own paints.
                                    >
                                    >At the moment I still have some Pebeo on hand, some of Galen's paints,
                                    >and
                                    >some Liquitiex artist acrylics that I mix with water, and they all work.
                                    >I
                                    >also haven't had any problems using more than one type of acrylic at the
                                    >same time.
                                    >
                                    >Good luck.
                                    >
                                    >Jan
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    >
                                  • Melinda Jensen
                                    Jan, You had replied to me earlier about the ratio of water to paint and intensity. I finally got a good ratio with the Utrecht paints. But I sometimes feel
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Sep 30, 2002
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                                      Jan,
                                      You had replied to me earlier about the ratio of water to paint and intensity. I finally got a good ratio with the Utrecht paints. But I sometimes feel the brightness or intensity is low. Now that I have them working do I reduce water for Oxgall to get brightness.
                                      I am so excited that I actually made a pattern today and there is no greater anticipation than waiting to see your finished product.
                                      Appreciate if anyone can answer question above.
                                      Thank you
                                      Melinda
                                      soaplady@...
                                      www.southvalleysoaps.com
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Jan Bond
                                      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 2:39 PM
                                      Subject: [Marbling] Paint/water ratios


                                      Melinda,

                                      I haven't used Utrecht paints, but they are one of the three brands
                                      (Liquitex, Rembrandt, Utrecht) that Galen Berry recommends using.

                                      The ratio is about 4 parts water to one part paint, but will vary with the
                                      intensity you want. I don't measure, and haven't had any problems, so it
                                      seems a forgiving process.

                                      Jan

                                      At 01:33 PM 9/18/2002 -0700, you wrote:
                                      >Jan,
                                      >Could you please tell me how much water you mix with the Liquatex? I have
                                      >the Utrecht paints which I thought would be liquid and am guessing at water
                                      >ratio.
                                      >Thanks,
                                      >Melinda
                                      >soaplady@...
                                      >www.southvalleysoaps.com
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: Jan Bond
                                      > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 12:53 PM
                                      > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Hello from Switzerland...
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Hi Marlene,
                                      >
                                      > I've used the Pebeo marbling paints, and found they work well. Although you
                                      > describe them as somewhat liquid, they're the same consistency as other
                                      > products. You're right about the limited color palette, though. Pebeo also
                                      > has a product called Setacolor, iridescents in a wide range of colors,
                                      > meant for fabrics. Many of them make good marbling paints if they are mixed
                                      > half and half or more with water, and they are another way to give you more
                                      > variety. The gold and the copper work especially well and give nice effects.
                                      >
                                      > You don't say what kind of size was in your starter kit, only that you had
                                      > problems with it. I used to use sodium alginate, as carrageenan doesn't
                                      > seem to be available anywhere in Canada. After all the comments on this
                                      > list about the superiority of carageenan, I finally ordered some (I got
                                      > mine from Galen Berry). It really made a big difference.
                                      >
                                      > I also ordered some of his acrylic paints, and some of his tools, and they
                                      > are all good products.
                                      >
                                      > If you are ordering from Galen, I highly recommend buying his instruction
                                      > pamphlet. It has very clear information about techniques, and also about
                                      > mixing your own paints.
                                      >
                                      > At the moment I still have some Pebeo on hand, some of Galen's paints, and
                                      > some Liquitiex artist acrylics that I mix with water, and they all work. I
                                      > also haven't had any problems using more than one type of acrylic at the
                                      > same time.
                                      >
                                      > Good luck.
                                      >
                                      > Jan
                                      >
                                      > At 11:23 AM 9/18/2002 +0200, you wrote:
                                      > >Hi all
                                      > >
                                      > >My name's Marlene (40, hubby, two kids and a cat :-)) and I'd like to
                                      > >introduce myself to you as a new member.
                                      > >
                                      > >I just finished my second tests in marbling and I must say it is
                                      > >difficult to obtain something nice with the stuff I am using (Pebeo
                                      > >starter kit). This technique is not well known around here and I will
                                      > >probably have to get books through Amazon to know a little more. Or find
                                      > >other paints.
                                      > >
                                      > >First of all I had problems with the thickener which clodded and gave me
                                      > >a hell of a time. and then there are only 9 colours in the kit I bought
                                      > >so you have to mix a lot before you get a nice set of shades that go
                                      > >together. The rake went through the somewhat liquid paints (they're
                                      > >ready made) and not much came out of it.
                                      > >
                                      > >But most of all I am a beginner and need to learn a lot more.
                                      > >
                                      > >I am not a beginner in other handicrafts like making clothes, silk
                                      > >painting, knitting etc.. but my past experience clearly is not of much
                                      > >use in marbling.
                                      > >
                                      > >I wonder if anyone would care to listen to a few of my questions. or
                                      > >spending some time explaining to me what you share on this list.
                                      > >
                                      > >I was looking for info and discovered Galen Berry's site
                                      > >http://hometown.aol.com/marbling/marbling/index.htm
                                      > >
                                      > >and looked - with awe - at all the gorgeous examples he made, does
                                      > >anyone know his work and use the supplies they sell?
                                      > >
                                      > >I wish you all a great day wherever you are and hope to hear about you.
                                      > >
                                      > >Marlene
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
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                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
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                                    • irisnevins
                                      It really depends on the paint! Some need no dilution, others a lot. You need to experiment, and sometimes as in the case with cadmium reds, to get the proper
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Oct 1, 2002
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                                        It really depends on the paint! Some need no dilution, others a lot. You
                                        need to experiment, and sometimes as in the case with cadmium reds, to get
                                        the proper intensity you need MORE water, not less, because it is a heavy
                                        pigment which may weigh more than the size can bear. it can start to sink a
                                        little and you won't even see it, yet the paper will pick up a pale liver
                                        color where you see bright red on the size. If this happens...dilute a
                                        little more to allow it to float better...
                                        Iris Nevins
                                      • Melinda Jensen
                                        Thank you very much, This is the kind of information you do not get from the books. I appreciate it! Melinda soaplady@mind.net www.southvalleysoaps.com ...
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Oct 1, 2002
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                                          Thank you very much,
                                          This is the kind of information you do not get from the books. I appreciate it!
                                          Melinda
                                          soaplady@...
                                          www.southvalleysoaps.com
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: irisnevins
                                          To: INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 5:07 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [Marbling] Paint/water ratios


                                          It really depends on the paint! Some need no dilution, others a lot. You
                                          need to experiment, and sometimes as in the case with cadmium reds, to get
                                          the proper intensity you need MORE water, not less, because it is a heavy
                                          pigment which may weigh more than the size can bear. it can start to sink a
                                          little and you won't even see it, yet the paper will pick up a pale liver
                                          color where you see bright red on the size. If this happens...dilute a
                                          little more to allow it to float better...
                                          Iris Nevins

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