Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

6773Re: methyl cellulose

Expand Messages
  • jemiljan
    Aug 18, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Caryl,

      Both of these forms from Dharma and Pro-Chem are the "surface treated" forms of hydroxypropyl methylcellose (HPMC).

      A considerable problem in this discussion has been the use of the term "methyl cellulose" for a very wide variety of cellulose ethers. They are not the same.

      Please refer to my earlier discussion of this topic:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling/message/4467

      best,

      Jake Benson
      --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, carylhanc@... wrote:
      >
      > Hi, Iris and all,
      >
      >
      > I use M/C, usually purchased from Dharma. Their "recipe" calls for 1 ounce (3-1/2 TBSP) powder to 1 gallon of room temp water, while stirring. Then stirring in 1 teaspoon of CLEAR ammonia, and letting it rest for 20 minutes, stir again, and play. We have water here with a pH often below 6, so I tend to add about 1 TABLESPOON of ammonia, as I have found that necessary to get the pH up high enough for the M/C to swell.
      > I believe that the M/C from Pro-Chem requires the same amount of ammonia, but also requires an equal amount of vinegar to adjust the pH. I have been known to be wrong, and don't have any Pro-Chem's to check.
      >
      >
      > Of course, "feel" comes into play, but I have found that the above amounts are about right - unless I am really playing around.
      >
      >
      > I should also add that I use acrylics, often Pro-Chem's, but with Goldens, liquitex as well as the inexpensive craft ones, and they usually play fairly well together. If not, some dilute Photo-Flo usually solves the problem.
      >
      >
      > HTH!
      > Caryl Hancock, indianapolis
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>
      > To: Marbling <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Fri, Aug 17, 2012 2:38 pm
      > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: methyl cellulose
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Thanks Aaron... maybe I was unclear...yes, I would fine tune it by feel, BUT... not being a user of it at all, I have no clue what the additives needed are in the first place. We fine tune it by ear but have a basic starting point is what I need, so if anyone has an idea as to how much water say, to a TBS of it, if it needs any ammonia and how much per TBS etc.
      >
      > Iris
      > www.marblingpaper.com
      >
      > On 08/17/12, Aaron Salik<aaron@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Iris,
      >
      > I couldn't agree with you more, and this is why we don't typically provide
      > recipes with our products.
      >
      > Since we sell to a wide and varied group of customers (bookbinders, art
      > conservators, marblers, etc) that all use these products in very different
      > ways, it is impossible to have a recipe that works for all applications.
      > It's like a bag of flour having a recipe on it. Our customers are also
      > typically trained professionals, and recipes are more guidelines than hard
      > and fast rules.
      >
      > I certainly don't mean to put you on the spot, but you are the one who
      > asked for a recipe and then replied that you never use one but do it by
      > feel. We feel the same.
      >
      > Jake, I agree. Most people marbling at a high level don't use Methyl
      > Cellulose for marbling, but some do who want a cheaper alternative to
      > carageenan. I don't think there is any question the results are sub
      > standard, but everything has its time and place. For example when Martha
      > Stewart featured a marbling project, and I can't remember if it was on her
      > tv show, magazine, or online) she used methyl cellulose and referenced as
      > as the source where she obtained the supplies. This is a perfect group for
      > MC and not carageenan -)
      >
      > What we sell as this generic form of methyl cellulose is Culminal
      > methylcellulose MC 2000. It is methyl cellulose, not MHPC or other similar
      > forms. It works for marbling. We do also sell other methyl cellulose
      > products that are more expensive and desired for specific art conservation
      > treatments, such as Dow A4C and Aqualon Cellulose Gum CMC 7H3SF PH which is
      > actually a carboxyl methyl cellulose.
      >
      > If there is anyone out there who uses methyl cellulose for their marbling
      > and would like to help me develop a baseline recipe for the product we sell
      > for this application, I would gladly send some samples. Please contact me
      > directly at aaron@...
      >
      > --
      > Regards,
      > Aaron Salik
      >
      > Talas
      > 330 Morgan Ave
      > Brooklyn NY 11211
      > 212-219-0770 Phone
      > 212-219-0735 Fax
      > http://talasonline.com
      > http://talasonline.blogspot.com/
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Show all 28 messages in this topic