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6770Re: [Marbling] Re: methyl cellulose

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  • carylhanc@aol.com
    Aug 17, 2012
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      Hi, Iris and all,


      I use M/C, usually purchased from Dharma. Their "recipe" calls for 1 ounce (3-1/2 TBSP) powder to 1 gallon of room temp water, while stirring. Then stirring in 1 teaspoon of CLEAR ammonia, and letting it rest for 20 minutes, stir again, and play. We have water here with a pH often below 6, so I tend to add about 1 TABLESPOON of ammonia, as I have found that necessary to get the pH up high enough for the M/C to swell.
      I believe that the M/C from Pro-Chem requires the same amount of ammonia, but also requires an equal amount of vinegar to adjust the pH. I have been known to be wrong, and don't have any Pro-Chem's to check.


      Of course, "feel" comes into play, but I have found that the above amounts are about right - unless I am really playing around.


      I should also add that I use acrylics, often Pro-Chem's, but with Goldens, liquitex as well as the inexpensive craft ones, and they usually play fairly well together. If not, some dilute Photo-Flo usually solves the problem.


      HTH!
      Caryl Hancock, indianapolis



      -----Original Message-----
      From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>
      To: Marbling <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Fri, Aug 17, 2012 2:38 pm
      Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: methyl cellulose





      Thanks Aaron... maybe I was unclear...yes, I would fine tune it by feel, BUT... not being a user of it at all, I have no clue what the additives needed are in the first place. We fine tune it by ear but have a basic starting point is what I need, so if anyone has an idea as to how much water say, to a TBS of it, if it needs any ammonia and how much per TBS etc.

      Iris
      www.marblingpaper.com

      On 08/17/12, Aaron Salik<aaron@...> wrote:

      Hi Iris,

      I couldn't agree with you more, and this is why we don't typically provide
      recipes with our products.

      Since we sell to a wide and varied group of customers (bookbinders, art
      conservators, marblers, etc) that all use these products in very different
      ways, it is impossible to have a recipe that works for all applications.
      It's like a bag of flour having a recipe on it. Our customers are also
      typically trained professionals, and recipes are more guidelines than hard
      and fast rules.

      I certainly don't mean to put you on the spot, but you are the one who
      asked for a recipe and then replied that you never use one but do it by
      feel. We feel the same.

      Jake, I agree. Most people marbling at a high level don't use Methyl
      Cellulose for marbling, but some do who want a cheaper alternative to
      carageenan. I don't think there is any question the results are sub
      standard, but everything has its time and place. For example when Martha
      Stewart featured a marbling project, and I can't remember if it was on her
      tv show, magazine, or online) she used methyl cellulose and referenced as
      as the source where she obtained the supplies. This is a perfect group for
      MC and not carageenan -)

      What we sell as this generic form of methyl cellulose is Culminal
      methylcellulose MC 2000. It is methyl cellulose, not MHPC or other similar
      forms. It works for marbling. We do also sell other methyl cellulose
      products that are more expensive and desired for specific art conservation
      treatments, such as Dow A4C and Aqualon Cellulose Gum CMC 7H3SF PH which is
      actually a carboxyl methyl cellulose.

      If there is anyone out there who uses methyl cellulose for their marbling
      and would like to help me develop a baseline recipe for the product we sell
      for this application, I would gladly send some samples. Please contact me
      directly at aaron@...

      --
      Regards,
      Aaron Salik

      Talas
      330 Morgan Ave
      Brooklyn NY 11211
      212-219-0770 Phone
      212-219-0735 Fax
      http://talasonline.com
      http://talasonline.blogspot.com/

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