5297Re: [Marbling] Re: Need Help
- Aug 8, 2009It's really hard to say what to do, every type paint is different. Not just acrylic, or watercolor, but within the types, what brand it is matters. there is no generic "marbling paint" formula, each maker makes it differently. Believing there is a marbling paint formula is like assuming there is only one cake recipe. The big mistake many make though is thinking denser paint will give brighter color. What happens often is that the specific gravity or weight of the paint, if heavier than the size, will cause it to sink and you will get pale color or no color. Add a bit of water and thin it down more, you will likely get it floating and get brighter color.
Acrylics don't often respond well to ox gall, but you can thin down Photo Flo and use it as you would ox-gall. I can't tell you how much because I don't know your paint, and don't know how thick or how thin the size is etc., but a 78 degree size is going to lose viscosity at a more rapid rate and could cause sinking. Try cooler if possible. I'd try about 10 drops Photo Flo in 1/4 cup water and use as gall. Ox-gall works best with water color paints or gouache. You can say a drop or two only, but it depends how strong the gall is, how thin the paint is. For my paints I use as a starting point about eight drops from a little drop bottle, a drop equals about half a drop from a regular eye dropper. So I use eight of mine which is like four from an eye dropper in 1 cup of paint...but then will add a little more to some other colors, and some days it all wants more gall than others, depends on weather, humidity, surface tension.
You really just need to experiment. Borax in the size, I utterly hate it. It never did any good for me and only made the paints fuzzy looking and pale. For that reason too, it's a bad idea to use water for size or paint that comes from a water softener. I make my paints with distilled water, just because it rules out the water as a problem. I have in a pinch made paint for my own use with hard tap water many times, and it behaved just the same as with distilled, in fact some of the colors behaved BETTER. I don't sell it that way though, especially in case I need to troubleshoot for someone using it, I can rule out water as a problem. otherwise the formulas for the colors are identical.
I make all my size with very, very hard tap water. I tend to be a sloppy and haphazard marbler, many would be horrified, and use what's easiest without going overboard on additives, in fact use none in the size. It works best fresh, so I make what I need for one day, no more, and make more for the next day if I marble again, it's so fast and easy, why preserve a filthy size, it's depressing to me to look at the grey mess the next morning first thing. The only difference I find in hard water as opposed to soft, distilled etc. for size, is that the same way hard water doesn't lather up the soap as much as soft, you need a little more carrageenan to get the same viscosity, so I round the Tablespoons a bit. That's the only difference I ever had. I use hard tap water for my alum too. I was never taught to marble so used what I had with little adjustments if needed, and had no thought about additives or being super clean or worried about hard or soft water or preservatives etc. It was always streamlined and simple yet worked fine. Sometimes I think it gets overly complicated where not necessary and causes people frustration. No problems usually marbling this way for 31 years...expect those mysterious days where things just don't feel like working for some odd reason you never find out. Then you do the same exact things the next day and all is fine. My bigger issues revolve around the shoveling of too much calcium carbonate into papers which neutralizes the alum...that issue seems to make all others child's play. It is a serious threat to marbling, and something you have little control over. Your other materials you can tweak this way and that, but unless you start making paper you are at the mercy of the paper mills.
You really need to play with everything, and read as much as you can. Everyone will tell you something else, and there are many "right ways" that have worked for people, so try everything until you hit on what works for you best. There are many books and instructions out there, and it's always of great value to take a class with an experienced marbler. That is the best, in person they can often figure out the problem in a few minutes. In fact learn in person from as many as possible, and you will find your way best that way.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Goode<mailto:watermarktile@...>
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Need Help
Ox gall usually just needs a drop or two at most,
78 degrees may be a bit to hot try a bit cooler if you can.
I am not sure about Borax I have heard about people using it with success.
Try thinning with alcohol on the blues no ox gall with the alcohol.
try some bottled water to thin and just a drop of ox then maybe another.
keep trying eventually you will have something.
Some days I just have to walk away for a few and come back refreshed relaxed
and ready again.
I believe this is what makes marbling marbling...its not easy but it can and
Others will have have advice.
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:58 PM, simonl332002 <MARYER8@...<mailto:MARYER8@...>> wrote:
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com> <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John Goode
> <watermarktile@...> wrote:
> I am using differnt types of paint hoping to hit on the one that is the
> brightest and best, Liquitex soft body, createx airbrush colors, Jacquard
> textile color, and Lumiere from Jacquard. The room temp is about 78, (I like
> it warm)Faucet water is mixed with Borox water softner. I am thinning the
> paints either with water or ox gall. Sure appreciate your helping John.
> Hi Mary
> > which paints are you using?
> > what is the room temp?
> > what water makes the carrageenan? tap or rain or bottled?
> > what are we mixing with the paints? ox gall?
> > do not give up we all have these things happen at the tank.
> > Maybe we can diagnose with a bit more info.
> > Thanks John Goode
> > On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:30 PM, simonl332002 <MARYER8@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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