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5056Re: [Marbling] Making our own base papers

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  • John Goode
    Mar 2 6:33 PM
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      Hi Iris and All
      I have used a big lucite 3" roll to roll the paper pulp flat on cotton twill
      then stack on bread racks to dry and on window screens. I have had to run a
      dehumidifier so it drys and not molds...The cost of distilled water is paid
      for with the electric used for it. I also used a food type carrageenan for
      sizing.. a very small amount. It helped bind the cotton together.
      Twinrocker paper supply sells cotton linters that are incredible.Put them
      in a blender and away you go fill a litter box pan( sound familiar..I bet
      you are already a pro ) pour onto a screen or use a little screen you made
      using a picture frame and a stapler with plastic window screen.. Your in
      The fact that you will not rule out a Hollander beater tells me this is
      I have always wanted to start a paper house co op where we/it would make art
      papers special for those that have to have what they have to have.I made
      water colors paper this way for some older artists that liked the paper
      It is incredible, but really I do appreciate the flat real papers that we
      all use it just got exciting remembering the days youth and paper
      dreams.Photos as promised soon.
      Yours in Ebru..

      On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 11:48 AM, irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote:

      > The problem I have seen, mainly with students bringing hand made paper
      > to a class to marble, was that it is too porous and textured and the colors
      > were too soft and fuzzy or would bleed. Have you a way to make a nice tight
      > weave if that is the right word? I don't mind a laid look to the paper, I
      > think it adds class, even if my customers want the flat wove papers. I have
      > seen a demo of nice simple papermaking that, even though a sheet at a time,
      > with the mix being done in a blender, it was suitable for marbling, laid
      > finish, good weight, would guess about 70lb. Nice watermark too. This was a
      > professional papermaker though doing a small scale demo all day at a show,
      > on and off, and I was the marbling demo person. She used something like
      > window screens for it. How long would it take, say to make even 10 papers in
      > a day on this scale? Is it something one could do in a few hours at the end
      > of the day and stockpile the papers? I do have plenty of room, in fact, if
      > need be, a small barn I could devote to papermaking. A Hollander beater is
      > not out of the question either if it comes to that. In a way the thought
      > excites me! I felt this way about paint making decades ago.
      > Though it took many thousands of dollars trying this throwing away that
      > (and still does at times, LOL! I think I have finally found a good red sub
      > for cadmium, which I won't sell any longer due to the law suit happy people
      > out there who hear "heavy metal" and sue you...though you'd win, it is fully
      > legal, you could lose a fortune in legal fees) and finally at very least
      > have control of my own colors. That itself was major, as there is no "paint
      > formula" ....each pigment will differ in what it needs in what amounts to
      > work, most pigments will not work or are not compatible with marbling as I
      > found at great expense, and it has been a many decades study of chemical and
      > physical properties, loads of wasted materials, and I still experiment all
      > the time in hopes of improving the paints, they are never "there yet",
      > always could be better. So I am ready to devote the same care and study to
      > paper making should it become necessary. I hope it doesn't, I just don't
      > know how I will find time to do more!
      > Iris Nevins
      > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: John Goode<mailto:watermarktile@...<watermarktile%40gmail.com>>
      > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:
      > Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>>
      > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:37 AM
      > Subject: Re: [Marbling] Making our own base papers
      > Hi Iris and all.
      > Iris I encourage you to at least try to make paper a few times and marble
      > the sheets.
      > The work would be full circle at that point.The next level.
      > Is there anyone that makes paper that you could contract to make yours for
      > you?
      > I know when I made some hand made paper and marbled it .People were much
      > more interested, it became double fine art .Same with marbled fabric, If I
      > marbled the fabric and had clothing sewn from it. It steps into another
      > dimension.
      > I remember talking to Dexter Ing on the phone, twenty years ago when he
      > convinced me" people will never see the marbling on a T shirt because it
      > was
      > on a T shirt they would just see a T shirt."
      > So when I tried ceramics I found the same thing, if marbling on a factory
      > dust pressed tile then that is what it is.
      > If marbling on a handmade tile, it becomes rare, more artistic so does the
      > wall that matches it etc.
      > When I learned to make tile from scratch it became a 10 year process.When I
      > needed a porcelain that was not produced I made my own, same with all my
      > ingredients, full circle, real fine art.
      > I know we all have to paint on corporate made crap but there is another
      > way!
      > PLEASE try it once. Show people the work believe me you will be self
      > satisfied and others will feel it and pay more for it.
      > Could some one post the directions for making paper by hand that will stand
      > up to marbling here?
      > There must be some here that make their own. I plan to spend some time
      > doing
      > this soon.
      > Thanks for listening!
      > Peace thru Ebru
      > John Goode
      > watermarktile.com
      > On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 7:16 AM, irisnevins <irisnevins@...<irisnevins%40verizon.net>
      > <mailto:irisnevins@... <irisnevins%40verizon.net>>> wrote:
      > > Susanne, I know it's got to be at least as hard as learning marbling, I
      > > would never think to do it unless there was absolutely no paper left that
      > > worked anymore.
      > >
      > > Unfortunately just about all vellum finish printing papers in the US have
      > > gone "acid free". I have even asked some companies what they did with
      > their
      > > old stock and they said they threw it out, no one wants it anymore for
      > book
      > > printing or whatever. I would have bought up as much as possible.
      > >
      > > I have now though, gotten intrigued about paper making, not for
      > commercial
      > > use or selling but for my own use, which would be time consuming enough.
      > I
      > > am not 20 by a long shot but still have loads of energy and curiosity as
      > to
      > > how things work, and that sort of thing spurs me on. I have gone this
      > route
      > > by building my own musical instruments, learning classical jewelry making
      > in
      > > depth, so might just at some point take an intro course to see what's
      > > involved. Sometimes I hate things I try, like the casting process in
      > jewelry
      > > making, I like the model making, wax carving, but the process, so boring.
      > I
      > > do simple sand casting for flat pieces myself, the rest I will send out.
      > If
      > > I find I love doing something, I am the original obsessive compulsive,
      > and
      > > it's not work to me, but a joy, and I can work endlessly on it and feel
      > > energized. The real problem, is keeping adding yet one more thing to do!
      > >
      > > I'll seek out more papers first though, and when the best is found, shall
      > > hoard it, LOL! I do wish some mid size paper company would come up with a
      > > paper specifically designed for all types of marbling, one in a laid
      > finish,
      > > one a wove/vellum finish and some nice colors for those who want them,
      > and
      > > be done with it. There is a market for it...not a huge one, but I sure
      > would
      > > buy a lot if the price were reasonable.
      > >
      > > Iris Nevins
      > > www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<
      > http://www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>>
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: Susanne Krause<mailto:studio@...<studio%40hamburgerbuntpapier.de>
      > <studio%40hamburgerbuntpapier.de<mailto:studio@...<studio%40hamburgerbuntpapier.de>
      > <studio@... <studio%40hamburgerbuntpapier.de>>>>
      > >
      > > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:
      > Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>> <Marbling%
      > 40yahoogroups.com><mailto:
      > > Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:
      > Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>> <Marbling%
      > 40yahoogroups.com>>
      > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 3:01 AM
      > > Subject: [Marbling] Making our own base papers
      > >
      > > Hi Iris,
      > > and hi to all the others wondering about paper making,
      > >
      > > for making decorated papers professionally, meaning to earn your
      > > livelyhood by it, forget about making your own base papers unless you
      > > are about twenty years of age, have the time and the money to invest
      > > in 10 years of full time learning, plus 10 more years of learning the
      > > techniques of paper decoration you wish to learn, plus more years in
      > > which to learn combining both.
      > >
      > > It may sound harsh but that's exactly how it is. We're all repeating
      > > all the time that you cannot learn marbling (or any of the other
      > > tchniques) quickly and easily. An enormous percentage of all the
      > > postings in this group is about technical problems and the tricks our
      > > materials play on us. Paper making is just the same; and on top of it
      > > all a professional set up needs even more space and money than the
      > > professional set up for paper decoration.
      > >
      > > A person can have enormous fun making paper, just as they can have
      > > enormous fun making marbled papers or whatever. It's very, very
      > > exciting work and just as addictive as making decorated papers. It's a
      > > sensational experience to be responsible for the whole thing.
      > > Nevertheless it is idiotic on the commercial level, and it is
      > > adventurous on the emotional (to say the least). It is the simple
      > > truth that there are just so many really good papers makers, just as
      > > there are just so many really good paper decorators. Once in a while
      > > there may be an exceptionally gifted and dedicated person who can do
      > > both in equally good quality, but these persons are just that:
      > > exceptions. We're not a profession of exceptions (except in the field
      > > of mild madness).
      > >
      > > I could go on and on about this, but let me finish with a suggestion:
      > > try printing papers. They are velin, sturdy, comparatively cheap and
      > > available with or without buffering. I'm using them for dribbled,
      > > early 20th century and some 19th century pastes. I'm told they marble
      > > fine.
      > > Susanne krause
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > ------------------------------------
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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