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3931Re: [Marbling] Indigo

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  • irisnevins
    Jan 11, 2007
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      Hmmm... well as usual in marbling, lots of factors in different places, different papers etc. do different things! I could never use it... Prussian, true, I avoid that too! Same reason. For me the indigo is worse.

      Iris Nevins
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: G. Dixon<mailto:gdixon@...>
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:30 PM
      Subject: Re: [Marbling] Indigo


      Iris,
      I have not found it to be a problem with the indigo I use - maybe a little more offset than the other colors when squeezed into tight, almost black veins (Prussian blue give me more of this when very concentrated than the indigo), but nothing much when aiming for any range of blue. I have had this problem on two occasions when the papers aluming was not quite strong enough (these were some papers that had sat around in a summer's humidity and they appeared to marble fine but would not hold the pigment when dry), but all the colors were affected to some extent, the earlier thrown on, and therefore more concentrated colors, more so than the later ones.
      Garrett
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: irisnevins
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:32 AM
      Subject: Re: [Marbling] Indigo


      Garrett... when on the paper though in a fairly deep application, so it is a dark blue, when it dries, doesn't it offset?

      I know most watercolor marbling will offset a little at least if you try to rub with a white kleenex for example, but ideally it should be very minimal and maybe show on the tissue a bit but not smear the paper or automatically offset onto an opposing sheet in a book.

      I find Indigo, at least the pigments I have used, it does this violently, unless used in the lightest application, well diluted. I know the answer is to spray fixative on it, but would mean doing easily 100 or more papers a week....ugh.... I prefer to use pigments that behave better for me. I leave the use of fixative up to the end user, but hardly anyone I know of ever uses it on my papers or complains about offsetting.

      You can really seal the indigo in with a light paraffin coating and burnishing too of course.... but that's an armbuster!!

      Nice color though!

      Iris Nevins
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: G. Dixon<mailto:gdixon@...<mailto:gdixon@...>>
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
      Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 9:53 PM
      Subject: Re: [Marbling] Indigo

      In defense of indigo, I have found it a valuable pigment for marbling and my preferred choice for blue. The shade can vary from pale to almost black depending upon dilution. It tends to be a hard, granular pigment and requires longer grinding and mulling than other pigments to make it useable, but when finely mulled I have had no problem with it running or staining. I have tried many different blues and still find that with indigo I can obtain the most uniformity and "old" appearance for Stormont and Shell patterns. It is also very good for mixing colors. Synthetic indigo is also available, although the color is not quite the same and so I have not used it and cannot say how well it makes a paint for marbling.

      Garrett Dixon
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Feridun Ozgoren
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
      Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 5:37 PM
      Subject: RE: [Marbling] Indigo

      Greetings,

      Indigo is both a dye and a pigment, depending on whether oxidized or not.
      Before oxidation it is a yellow liquid that the fabrics dyed in and hung
      for oxidation, this makes the fabrics blue in color, after oxidation it
      precipitates as blue pigment which is water insoluble (pigment), that is
      what marblers and other water color artists used for centuries.

      Feridun Ozgoren

      _____

      From: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>> [mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of hamburgerbuntpapier_de
      Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 7:08 AM
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
      Subject: [Marbling] Indigo

      Indigo is not a pigment, it is a dye. This means, it needs fixation to
      connect chemically to
      the fibre. In textiles, this is achieved by putting the material through a
      special bath at high
      temperature - not what paper likes! If not fixated, indigo runs in just the
      way you
      describe, Iris, and an amazingly small amount of indigo can do amazingly big
      damage.

      Susanne Krause

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