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2644Re: [Marbling] Re: Without alum

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  • IRIS NEVINS
    Dec 27, 2004
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      thanks Garrett.....I know most if not all of these papers are to one degree or another buffered, likely with calcium carbonate. Hahnemuelle papers are, Ingres and the natur text I use also. It must be they use just enough and do not go overboard......they do work. with alum that is.

      I would suspect in Halfer's day there may have been just plain old paper mostly.maybe one could take up papermaking to test further.....but we're supposed to make our lives EASIER not harder!
      I vote for alum!

      irisnevins

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: G. Dixon<mailto:gdixon@...>
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 11:04 PM
      Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Without alum



      A couple of years ago, I spent about six months experimenting in marbling without alum on both carrageen and gum tragacanth sizes. I tried various papers: Zerkall, Somerset, Rives, Arches, Cranes Crest, various Ingres, Japanese and inexpensive Sumi papers. The unsized, or minimally sized, Japanese and sumi papers worked well - picked up the paints with good intensity and little bleeding of colors. The papers have a softer look, since the paint is absorbed into the paper to an extent, but still very acceptable (I often use Loew & Cornell sumi paper when testing a paint or pattern if I have no alumed paper around). The other papers were disappointing: only limited amounts of paint adhered, the rest of the color washed off or bled, and I was never able to achieve the intensity that aluming permits. I did not find, as Halfer wrote, that lakes and earth colors + gall on a tragacanth size would adhere without aluming - at least on the papers I tried. I concluded that the sizing in the paper was the major problem. I have had no success finding western papers that are absorbent enough to work without aluming.

      Garrett Dixon ----- Original Message -----
      From: IRIS NEVINS
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:56 PM
      Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Without alum


      many fabric dyers use vinegar....it will work, not as well though as alum for paper.

      iris nevins
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Brent Mydland<mailto:jbg78734@...<mailto:jbg78734@...>>
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
      Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:27 PM
      Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Without alum



      Once on the phone with Dexter Ing he told me that someone was using another mordant that was found in every kitchen and that it would soon appear in an article in Ink & Gall but that ended........Anyone that can tell us this would be helpful.
      Dexter are you on this list?
      Peace John Goode

      IRIS NEVINS <irisnevins@...<mailto:irisnevins@...<mailto:irisnevins@...<mailto:irisnevins@...>>> wrote:
      my only problem with acrylics is that I have not been able to get good Stormonts or French Shells. I have mixed the base with watercolor too, same problem. I prefer the watercolors any day, except for the alum need.

      Iris Nevins
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:hamburgerbuntpapier@...<mailto:hamburgerbuntpapier@...<mailto:hamburgerbuntpapier@...<mailto:hamburgerbuntpapier@...>>>
      To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>>
      Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 2:15 PM
      Subject: [Marbling] Re: Without alum




      That's why acrylics are favoured by many craftsmen and artists. Good acrylics simply can
      take a load off your shoulder.
      Pure acrylic dispersion is a powerful binder. If a pigment is stubbornly refusing to adhere
      to the paper and stay there even if, say, a bookbinder applies glue or paste, i. e.
      something containing water, you can trick your pigment into docileness by adding a dollop
      of acrylic dispersion.
      Several chemists whom I trust have assured me that adding acrylics is okay even as seen
      from the archival point of view. Nevertheless I restrict its use to the rare cases when
      nothing else helps as I want to stick as near as possible to the materials of old. Besides, it
      takes ages to clean the brushes, and as paste is a binder in itself, the need for an
      additional binder crops up about once in a year in paste paper-making.
      Kremer Germany has a wide range of acrylic dispersions for many purposes. I seem to
      remember that the range is smaller at Kremer USA, try their website www.kremer<http://www.kremer/<http://www.kremer<http://www.kremer/<http://www.kremer<http://www.kremer/<http://www.kremer<http://www.kremer/>>>-
      pigmente.com if you're interested. They are very generous in providing additional
      information. Dr. Kremer himself is a brilliant chemist, specializing in, of course, paints
      etc..
      Susanne Krause

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