2225Re: [Marbling] Fix your troublesome size
- Dec 10, 2003Does all this just apply to acrylics? What about Calgon with watercolors?
Not that I have any complaints.....sometimes ignorance is bliss. When I was
figuring out marbling on my own with no one telling me right and wrong, I
just merrily used my extremely hard tapwater for everything and it always
worked. When I tried other things that were supposed to work they didn't.
I'll try anything in an attempt to make things easier and better, but if
anyone knows of the effect of these things on watercolor prior to my
experimenting and wasting time and materials I'd be interested. I know
Borax in the size is hell on my watercolors, as is water that comes from a
watersoftener...things go pale and fuzzy. I have learned to make "just
enough" size for the day though and have no interest in preserving it.
After doing over 100 sheets it's shot anyway, full of filth and you can
barely see anyway.
Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
> I¹ve been away and seem to have missed the beginning of this thread, but
> is my 2 cents. Alum contamination leaves jaggedly edges that resistbeing
> combed and leave ragged holes in the pattern...no lumps or bumps. Youcan
> sink the alum holes and spot clean the contamination with a piece ofyou
> newspaper. Another problem may be the PH of the size and of the pigments
> are using. They should be just about the same temperature and the samePH.
> Now your size PH can be tested with some PH tape (try your local, smalland
> pharmacy) as for the pigments, you¹ll need a PH meter or several pleading
> insisting phone calls to your supplier to tell you what is the PH oftheir
> product. Here¹s where white vinegar, soda ash and ammonia come intoplay..to
> adjust the PH levels of your size. If you are using distilled water itwill
> be around a 7 and this should work well with pigments that are as high as9.
> What is your water source? Pure sodium hexemetaphosphate will softenyour
> water but it will not change the PH. The powdered Calgon (scentedsomewhat)
> that you order from Benkiser will raise your PH. I also found out thatis is
> a great for cleaning and polishing stainless ! Best wishes, Gail M.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Dear Angela:
> I have made thousands of exceptional scarves with very few "seconds."
> Believe me, I have suffered through every problem there is.
> Try adding Calgon when the problem happens, with the broken pattern
> and white spots. (Cherry blossems is my cute name for this.) Dissolve
> a tablespoon in hot water and stir half into your marbling bath (about
> two gallons of size.) Test the size and if there is still a problem,
> add the other part of the dissolved calgon and test again. I think
> your problem will be solved. Once you know this, you can add Calgon
> (metaphosphate) before you begin marbling.
> There are chemical changes when alum gets in the size, but I have
> worked for many days makeing hundreds of papers just adding fresh size
> and also calgon. I refrigerate the size overnight to avoic bacterial
> degradaton, which also causes similar problems. (colors breakup.)
> Get Calgon (sodium hexemetaphosphate) from Pro Chemica, in
> Massechusetts, or from Rupert,Gibbon in Healdsburg. CA.I find it to be
> a true lifesaver. Saves one from throwing away that expensive carrageen.
> I do not use Spectralite, but usually if there is too much dissolved
> acrylic (and the surfaactant that is in it) the problem would be that
> the paints may start to sink and not spread ourt.
> Dry air is not the problem. I can do good marbling no matter what the
> temprature or humidity is.
> Water too can be a problem. It should not be acid or too mineral.
> Calgon solves this too.
> Your tools can be scrubbed with Dutch Cleanser and a nail brush. Rinse
> well. One can also use isopropyl alcohol for a quick fix. I do not
> think dirty tools is part of your problem if the tools and such are
> used just for acrylic. I usually only have to clean everything if I
> want to use the setup for watercolor, which is not compatible with
> acrylic at all.
> Newspaper for skimming is not a problem chemically.
> Use not more than 1 tablespoon of alum per cup of water. Silk can be
> dipped and then put in the washingmachin spin dryer. This allows
> evenly alumed scarves, with less possiblility of alum dissolvingf in
> the size.
> Lay the scarf down, check that all areas have contacted the marbling.
> Remove the scarf immediately and do not allow the gel to drip back
> into the marbling tray. I drape them over a plastic pipe and rinse
> with gently running warm water from a hose. Do not bucket them to
> rinse as there is a good chance of pattern damage.
> Yours, Peggy Skycraft
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, DaveorRobin Olson <dave1robin@y...>
>> > Dear Angela,
>> > I also marble some scarves but I don,t think your
>> > problen is limited to fabric marbling. I have had this
>> > problem both with paper and fabric. I was told it is
>> > contamination with alum. You need to clean your tank
>> > better between scarves.Always use the directions on
>> > the alum pakage to make your alum solution. This very
>> > problem came up in a marbling workshop I took this
>> > weekend .(paper)and I have given you the instructors
>> > response. Good Luck.
>> > Robin Olson, Chicago
>> > --- Angela Drake <angiedrake@h...> wrote:
>>> > > The last few times I've marbled, my size becomes
>>> > > contaminated about
>>> > > my fifth scarf into a session. It leaves bumpy,
>>> > > blank spots in the
>>> > > pattern and makes it very difficult to comb. I use
>>> > > carrageenan as my
>>> > > size and Spectralite paints. I had thought that cold
>>> > > size was the
>>> > > problem, but no longer. I was marbling outside while
>>> > > the weather was
>>> > > good (I live in Nevada, so it lasted a while) but
>>> > > just moved my work
>>> > > indoors and am having the same problem and the
>>> > > temperature is about
>>> > > 70F. If my tools are contaminated in some way, how
>>> > > do I clean them?
>>> > > I have read that I shouldn't use soap as it may
>>> > > further contaminate
>>> > > the size. The air here is very dry and we have
>>> > > almost no humidity,
>>> > > even in the house. Would this be a factor? Also, I
>>> > > skim using
>>> > > newspaper, but always have before with no problems.
>>> > > Any suggestions
>>> > > would be helpful as I am running out of ideas and
>>> > > although I can
>>> > > marble the scarves twice to lessen the impact of the
>>> > > flaw, I would
>>> > > prefer to get a great scarf the first time around. I
>>> > > make enough
>>> > > mistakes of my own without having to deal with size
>>> > > with a mind of
>>> > > its own. Thanks!
>>> > >
>>> > > Angie
>>> > >
>>> > >
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From: Gail MacKenzie <gailmackenzi@...>
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Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:25:43 -0800
Subject: Re: [Marbling] Fix your troublesome size
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