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The Malankara Orthodox Church ignored the Laity at the Centenary meeting.

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  • clickclutch
    While watching the Live telecast of Orthodox TV, I realized the Clergy supremacy in our Church over the laymen and it is really an important subject. My
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 1, 2012
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      While watching the Live telecast of Orthodox TV, I realized the Clergy supremacy in our Church over the laymen and it is really an important subject.

      My Malankara Orthodox Syrian church is adopted a democratic way in
      administration and that is why we have Lay Trustee and secretary from parish to church level. Now a days it is a bad tendenncy from the clergy to block the recognition to the lay leaders.

      The Vicars in some parishes changed the positions of the Trustee as treasurer and the laymen kept quiet as thy may be ignorant or they are affraid of the Vicar. If there are any public function the Clergy will find seat for the clergy, deacons and even to seminarians at the stage and they will extend welcome and thanks to them but they will ignore if there is any Laymen Managing committee member or Diocesan council Member, which is not at all the correct procedure.

      But if any laymen by mistake omits the adjectives a part of the title of a clergy you can see the reactions. This type of clergy monopoly is spreading and the laymen keep quiet and then it is becoming an order gradually.

      We celebrated a great function and of cource the lay leaders are the ones who arranged everything and no lay leaders were allowed to do their roll on the stage. This should be stopped and the laymen should not allow to proceed to eradicate their rights. It should be a subject that we need to discuss and stand for. Un acceptable Supremacy of clergies "Pawrohithya Melkoyma" cannot be tolerated. When we tolerate it, it makes to loose the rights of the Laymen.
      Laymen are the main stram that keeps the church strong and the foundation of the Church. If laymen are not active then there will not be any Church. This subject should be taken seriously.

      Every hirarchy should show the respect and then only thay can get the respect. The Church leaders should show us the obedience to their superiors and that enables the laymen to obey the superiors.

      Even if I brought this subject in public, I can expect that none will have the courage to raise their voice against such a "apartheid" as our laymen are good butter polishers but majority will not forget to say when they contact me as "wow it was a good posting!!!!"

      Charly V. Padanilam,
      Houston, TX.
    • shibu podiyan
      Abraham As Our Example •Abraham’s obedience. Gen.12: 4; Heb. 11:8. •Abraham’s intercession. Gen. 18:22-33 •Abraham’s fear of God (offering of his
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 3, 2012
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        Abraham As Our Example

        •Abraham’s obedience. Gen.12: 4; Heb. 11:8.
        •Abraham’s intercession. Gen. 18:22-33
        •Abraham’s fear of God (offering of his son). Gen. 22:12; Heb. 11:17
        •Abraham’s faith in God. Gen. 15:6; Heb. 11:9-10
        •Abraham’s faith in resurrection. Heb. 11:19
        •Abraham built altars and called upon the name of the Lord. Gen. 12:8; Gen. 13:4
        •Abraham was generous to His nephew (Gen. 13:5-11) and fought to rescue him. Gen. 14: 12-24.
        •Abraham gave tithe ( Gen. 14:20) and was blessed. Gen. 14:19-20.
        •The scriptures (2 Chron. 20:7, James 2:23) call Abraham the friend of God.
        •Abraham's relationship with God developed to a deeper and deeper friendship, as can be seen in His repeated interactions with God. Abraham viewed God as His friend, not only his supreme authority.



        [Two friends helped in preparing the above notes.]



        Trusting God for grace to follow Abraham’s example,



        Bro.Shibu Luke Podiyan

        Washington D.C



        ---

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • jose_ua
        I have heard this many times and now that the opportunity permits I write to you about the perfect example. Some people deeply touched by protestant
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 8, 2012
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          I have heard this many times and now that the opportunity permits I write to you about the perfect example. Some people deeply touched by protestant doctrines say Abraham, David , Job etc.. Some Orthodox will say Parumala thirumeni or St. Mary. Catholics will say unequovically it is St. Mary. But none of the above were without defects. Only Christ is our unblemished lamb. He is our High Priest, the Perfect image of the Invisible God. Since we are in the New Testament era our Lord Jesus is the our only example to follow.
          Let us not forget to honor the saints but we should follow Christ . Even the apostle Paul says " Imitate me as I imitate Christ". Paul could not say this on his own , Paul gets this authority when he linked it with Christ.

          The greatest among the old testament prophets John the baptist says " He ( Jesus) must increase I must decrease". God wants us to be like Jesus not Abraham or St. Mary . Let us not lower the bar of God's expectations and make the imagination of man void the intent of God.

          Our church celebrates only one birthday i.e. of Jesus Christ. Infact Christ is the focus of all activities of the church . That is the way it is and should be. We the bride are betrothed to Bridegroom , not the friend of the bridegroom.

          S/d
          Jose
        • T A Varghese
          Dear  Thanks for the msg. I am an orthodox born christian, but in my daily life I think I am not perfect christian.  Jesus Christ is certainly the central
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 16, 2012
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            Dear�
            Thanks for the msg. I am an orthodox born christian, but in my daily life I think I am not perfect christian. 
            Jesus Christ is certainly the central point, for Christians; but it is against christian thoughts when saying Old Testaments Prophets/fathers are not be considered as our example or important.  Because, Christ never ever, denounced/talked belittle about the Old Testaments Prophets/fathers.  In fact, He too was in communion with them. pls. see the events during Christ's transfiguration, he was talking to Moses and Elijah.  Imagine, Jesus Christ being son of God/God, still prefers to talk to Old Testament fathers!!! Is it not amusing?   Old Testament is the Shadow, and the new testament is reality.  For us, Jesus Christ is certainly the point and focus, all others must follow..whoever it is.....no one is as important as our Lord Jesus Christ....but do not forget our roots.
            RegardsVarghese.
          • vargheseditra
            Dear Your msg. is very clear and precise, appreciate it. A priest, is appointed as Vicar to certain Parish for specific time, to be a good Shepherd for the
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 17, 2012
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              Dear

              Your msg. is very clear and precise, appreciate it. A priest, is appointed as Vicar to certain Parish for specific time, to be a good Shepherd for the flock spiritually; but in other administrative matters of the Parish, the Priest is only to be an organizer, rather an overseer.He has no power whatsoever, to act in on his own power with regard to administrative matters of the parish, unless the General Body of the Church/Committee, authorize him to do so. authority. General Body of the Church has Complete Power in the administrative matters of the Parish.

              Now, as far as spiritual issues, the Priests/High Priests has their say.

              I know one Parish; the General Body decided that certain Bishop is not welcome in their Parish, that is it, that Bishop did not enter that parish for quite a long time. So don't be under the impression that Priests have all power.

              If a Parish Priest, signs Cheques, he signs it on behalf of the Parish, because he has been given that Power by the GBody, but he will sign it along with the the Trustee/Treasure.

              Now, about priests occupying positions (seat) in the Dias; after all one has to take the lead at times, if the General Body now decide, that the Vicar of the Church should not take position in certain Dias, that is it...no Vicar can question that decision. Since we all consider, Priests as good shepherds, we some times remain elusive on such issues.

              Finally, you will find buttering in every sphere of life, not only in Church, but also in politics, Schools, collages, institutions, etc.etc. This is everywhere in this world, you cannot overnight stop these things; one has to learn how to swim against the current. Do not think that you have no right to defend your thoughts...you have every right....but we as Christians, are to follow GOOD SHEPHERDS, not wolfs.
            • moscelder
              We must come out of the shadow or replica and accept the original i.e. Christ. Jose has drawn the line correctly . Our church members are too focused on saints
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 17, 2012
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                We must come out of the shadow or replica and accept the original i.e. Christ. Jose has drawn the line correctly . Our church members are too focused on saints rather than Christ. This is giving protestants the whip to strike us with. My advice dont follow hindu practices in the church. Don't make a big issue of history and traditions. All are good in its place but all pale when compared with Christ. Is any achen or bishop acting like Parumala thirumeni no but every Sunday he acts like Jesus i.e. mimics Jesus when he celebrates qurbana. Jose view is in line with orthodox faith.

                Itoop Korah
                Moderator
              • vargheseditra
                Dear Thanks for the msg. I am an orthodox born christian, but in my daily life I think I am not perfect christian. Jesus Christ is certainly the central point,
                Message 7 of 11 , Dec 17, 2012
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                  Dear

                  Thanks for the msg. I am an orthodox born christian, but in my daily life I think I am not perfect christian.

                  Jesus Christ is certainly the central point, for Christians; but it is against christian thoughts when saying Old Testaments Prophets/fathers are not be considered as our example or important. Because, Christ never ever, denounced/talked belittle about the Old Testaments Prophets/fathers. In fact, He too was in communion with them. pls. see the events during Christ's transfiguration, he was talking to Moses and Elijah. Imagine, Jesus Christ being son of God/God, still prefers to talk to Old Testament fathers!!! Is it not amusing? Old Testament is the Shadow, and the new testament is reality. For us, Jesus Christ is certainly the point and focus, all others must follow..whoever it is.....no one is as important as our Lord Jesus Christ....but do not forget our roots.

                  Regards
                  Varghese.
                • jose_ua
                  And a cloud overshadowed them, and a voice came out of the cloud, This is my beloved Son; listen to him. And suddenly, looking around, they no longer saw
                  Message 8 of 11 , Dec 18, 2012
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                    And a cloud overshadowed them, and a voice came out of the cloud, "This is my beloved Son; listen to him." And suddenly, looking around, they no longer saw anyone but Jesus only. Mark 9: 7

                    We are not discussing God's communion with His saints. We are discussing our perspective of saints and God. The apostles too were wrapped up in the shadow which is the past but when the new has come the old must go. God the Father himself instructs the apostles to listen to His Son. This is the correct way. God the father wants us to be like His son Jesus. There is no other way or example except Christ. Let us honor the saints and their memory and always look to Christ who is our only perfect example.

                    Yeshu ye pole aaguvan
                    Yesuvin vaaku kaakuvan
                    Yeshu pole jeveeipan
                    iyaye kamshikiunnu nyan........


                    Jose
                  • vargheseditra
                    Dear As I mentioned earlier, for us Jesus Christ s our central point...there is no doubt about it. We must be Christ-Like. I agree with you. But if you
                    Message 9 of 11 , Dec 19, 2012
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                      Dear

                      As I mentioned earlier, for us Jesus Christ s our central point...there is no doubt about it. We must be Christ-Like. I agree with you.

                      But if you prefer,taking Old Testament, Prophesies and Prophets out, there is no Christ and Christianity, remember that. Everything is interrelated, and must go together, while always remembering that CHRIST IS THE CENTRAL POINT, AND HE IS OUR FOCUS.

                      For example, Jesus Christ TOUCHED the man with LEPROSY, and He told him go to the TEMPLE, and show himself to the Priests, and make whatever offerings that MOSES had commended you to do. See, even here Jesus is not rejecting the traditions laid down by MOSES through God Almighty, BUT ALSO SAYING THE COMMENDS GIVEN BY MOSES, He also made it a point to state MOSES'S name.

                      Also, we all know, knowingly or unknowingly, we all continue to practice certain transitions of our parents, which are not written in any books. We always, say this how my father used to do, this is my mother used to do...how is that.

                      Read Hebrew 12:1- Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,

                      Pls. think who are these Witness, what are they doing around us? We need to give great importance to these words..we cannot close our eyes, and say there is darkness everywhere.

                      Regards
                      Varghese
                    • vargheseditra
                      Dear As I mentioned earlier, for us Jesus Christ s our central point...there is no doubt about it. We must be Christ-Like. I agree with you. But if you
                      Message 10 of 11 , Dec 19, 2012
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                        Dear

                        As I mentioned earlier, for us Jesus Christ s our central point...there is no doubt about it. We must be Christ-Like. I agree with you.

                        But if you prefer,taking Old Testament, Prophesies and Prophets out, there is no Christ and Christianity, remember that. Everything is interrelated, and must go together, while always remembering that CHRIST IS THE CENTRAL POINT, AND HE IS OUR FOCUS.

                        For example, Jesus Christ TOUCHED the man with LEPROSY, and He told him go to the TEMPLE, and show himself to the Priests, and make whatever offerings that MOSES had commended you to do. See, even here Jesus is not rejecting the traditions laid down by MOSES through God Almighty, BUT ALSO SAYING THE COMMENDS GIVEN BY MOSES, He also made it a point to state MOSES'S name.

                        Also, we all know, knowingly or unknowingly, we all continue to practice certain transitions of our parents, which are not written in any books. We always, say this how my father used to do, this is my mother used to do...how is that.

                        Read Hebrew 12:1- Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,

                        Pls. think who are these Witness, what are they doing around us? We need to give great importance to these words..we cannot close our eyes, and say there is darkness everywhere.

                        Regards
                        Varghese
                      • vargheseditra
                        Dear As I mentioned earlier, for us Jesus Christ s our central point...there is no doubt about it. We must be Christ-Like. I agree with you. But if you
                        Message 11 of 11 , Dec 19, 2012
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                          Dear

                          As I mentioned earlier, for us Jesus Christ s our central point...there is no doubt about it. We must be Christ-Like. I agree with you.

                          But if you prefer,taking Old Testament, Prophesies and Prophets out, there is no Christ and Christianity, remember that. Everything is interrelated, and must go together, while always remembering that CHRIST IS THE CENTRAL POINT, AND HE IS OUR FOCUS.

                          For example, Jesus Christ TOUCHED the man with LEPROSY, and He told him go to the TEMPLE, and show himself to the Priests, and make whatever offerings that MOSES had commended you to do. See, even here Jesus is not rejecting the traditions laid down by MOSES through God Almighty, BUT ALSO SAYING THE COMMENDS GIVEN BY MOSES, He also made it a point to state MOSES'S name.

                          Also, we all know, knowingly or unknowingly, we all continue to practice certain transitions of our parents, which are not written in any books. We always, say this how my father used to do, this is my mother used to do...how is that.

                          Read Hebrew 12:1- Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,

                          Pls. think who are these Witness, what are they doing around us? We need to give great importance to these words..we cannot close our eyes, and say there is darkness everywhere.

                          Regards
                          Varghese
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