Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: OT reading by Women in Church

Expand Messages
  • Bindu Scaria
    It maybe possible that Bible reading by women may lead to women ordinations. Can the concerned Thirumeni address this concern of Mr. E.S. John . Rinu can
    Message 1 of 2 , Dec 3, 2011
      It maybe possible that Bible reading by women may lead to women ordinations. Can the concerned Thirumeni address this concern of Mr. E.S. John . Rinu can contradict quite well but the postings are becoming tit-for tat rather than suggesting any solutions.

      This being a happy lent occasion I advise all to be joyful and cheer up one another.

      Dr. Bindu Scaria
      Group Moderator- MOSC
    • ES John
      Dear Moderator, I would be grateful if you would forward my letter to the members of the Holy Synod, particularly to our Yuhanon Mar Militithios thirumeni.
      Message 2 of 2 , Dec 4, 2011
        Dear Moderator,

        I would be grateful if you would forward my letter to the members of the Holy Synod, particularly to our Yuhanon Mar Militithios thirumeni. Thanking you and with prayers,

        ES John, Australia

        The abomination of
        desolating sacrilege (Shyunnayamakkunna Mlekchatha), Mt.24: 15
        The Secretary of the Holy
        Synod and the members of the church hierarchy,

        The intense pressure from the
        believers who insist me to let the church hierarchy know about the theological and
        social and practical issues involved in giving equality to women in the decision
        –making bodies of the church impels me to send this belated message to you; of
        course it is not too late for the church echelon to reverse its decision that
        was made without the parish level consultation of the faithful members of the
        Malankara Orthodox universal church. I am, therefore, forced, though
        obligatory, to forward this message to all the responsible hierarchical
        members, so that they can have more time to think in averting this seemingly suicidal
        decision, Lk.18:8, which affect the chastity of the holy faith handed down to
        us by the Fathers who shed their sweats, tears and blood and still weeping over
        us for swerving away and handing over the Bride to the ‘man of false
        countenance’ who will eventually trample over the church for its perdition.
        E.S.John, Australia
        Dear Mr. Sam Kodiattu and
        many others,
        “If you have theological
        reasons and biblical support in respect of your claims/reasoning for women not
        to read OT in churches prior to Holy Qurbana, first of all you must state it
        here precisely, and also write to the Episcopal synod about it! Making some
        statements here and there, some comments mixed with other issues/context/topics
        are not logical and relevant!”
        Thank you for this mail. Too
        much discussion, particularly about the biblical matters lead to confusion
        because the bible is a miniature copy of the Book of Life that is the software
        of the history from Eternity to Eternity with a small fissure of terrestrial
        tranistoriness. We can’t agree with one another, as one man’s food is another
        man’s poison, especially at this time when man is electrified by the fire of
        individualism and the freedom to go in tune with one’s own whims and fancies.
        The meaning of the
        abomination of desolation
        I have human
        impossibilities in repeating all what I have written before. I have published
        15 books of my own and translated another 2 books and many articles and
        messages that merely concentrate upon the Orthodox church’s teachings which
        come to a vanishing point ‘at the end of the days’, though celebrating the
        sacraments in mega rituals and pomp, due to the predation of the abomination of
        desolation spirit. I published my first English book in 1991 under the title “The
        Unholy Betrothal: The abomination of Desolation”.  Many of the readers may
        not have understood the meaning of the use of the term ‘Unholy Betrothal’ which
        conveys that the female clergy’s celebration of the liturgy is a defilement of
        the Bride by women clergy because both are symbolically represented as females.
        The church is the Bride of Jesus, the reason for the priest covering his head
        with a cap, like a woman who ought to cover her head in worshipping venue. A
        woman cannot represent the church, the 2nd Heaven, because there is
        no womanhood or sex in Heaven. Adam and Eve were created as Heavenly males and
        the details that follow later will bring this point to paramount importance.
        Only a male clergy can do any sacramental or ritual worship in the 2nd Heaven, the church, the body of Christ. As the OT reading is also a part of the
        Liturgy, it can be read only by male altar assistant.
        Abomination of desolation,
        as explained by some critics, is not the sacrifice given to the idol in
        Jerusalem Temple in 70 AD, when the Roman emperor Antiocus Epipanus exterminated
        the place, because the signs that prelude the 2nd coming of the Lord,
        Mt.24, didn’t happen after that destruction. The son of perdition who exalt
        himself as god and sits in the Temple of God, the precursor of the 2nd coming, 2.Thess.2: 4-12, didn’t take place in 70 AD, whereas the abomination of
        desolation that stand in the holy place, Mt.24:15, is the god of women, Dan.11:
        37, which prophet Daniel referred to is the female clergy that make the place
        unholy by performing the Holy Liturgy. It is obviously nothing but the female
        clergy offering the sacrifice of sacrilege by standing in the altar when the
        bread and wine don’t transform as the Body and Blood of Christ. When it remains
        as mere bread (corpse), the vultures (the satanic army) crowd over there to
        make it as the desolation of holiness of the altar. Desolation means the
        absence of the Spirit of God who makes the transformation of the bread as the
        Body of Christ. “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered
        together”, Mt.24: 28, eagles the carnivorous bird representing the infernal
        world make the place empty by the fleeing away of the Spirit of God. Beware of
        the morose theologians, agnostics and cult worshippers who depict the sacrilege
        as of the Roman emperor desecrating the JerusalemTemple.
        The last sign the angel
        Michael gave to Daniel for the end of the days is this. “Many shall run to and
        fro, and knowledge shall increase”, Dan.12: 4. Soon after the days of the age
        of Renaissance many of the Western Nations went to other far distant nations
        for colonization; second running around the world was the World wars which
        uprooted and replanted many in the unknown lands, and the third jumping and
        bouncing around the world is the global touring and holidaying under the
        glazing sun shine of high-tech pleasure which is rooted in the fossil energy
        money and wealth. Do you want to take shelter under the last heaven and earth
        of Satan in this world by thwarting away the new heaven and earth in
        mid-heaven, 2.Pet.3: 13? This clearly proves that the chaos that the
        abomination of desolation is not the destruction of Jerusalemin 70 AD, but the apocalyptic apostasy of female
        ordination that is to ravage the altar at the close of the age. The money and
        wealth that plucked by the global journeys paved the way for the increase of
        the knowledge of plundering the secrets of the heavens, oceans and hidden
        avenues which impelled man to make himself unknown by the lust of the flesh
        which overruled him and thus allowing him in walking over the apostolic faith
        that has been handed over to us by losing the own lives of our forefathers. The
        monster technology, the last phase of human history, which blinded our inner eye,
        is an irreparable loss for ever.
        The spade work I did
        for the Glory of God
        I have given many of my
        book series, 12 in “Abomination of the Desolation series” to our bishops and
        clergy as complimentary copies, including one set to that I sent through a
        priest to our Blessed Job Mar Philaxinose who rang me at my place in getting
        some books at the dead of the night. Most of our bishops are either
        contributors on our church sites and number of them read them everyday. One
        protagonist bishop who is the main proponent for the voting rights for our women
        in Parish meetings once sent to his congratulations and appreciations to the
        site Moderator of my excellent messages. Doesn’t it mean that that thirumeni is
        a reader of all my messages? If I sent a protest to our thirumeni about the
        present decision which the Malankara Association, lay members, questioned and
        challenged, do you mean to say that it will reach at the destination and
        produce some fruits for a reverse decision? Any belligerent minority of faith
        twisters can stir up and force the silent majority to bring down to their
        knees. If I write, I know that it will not shake a hair because every age has a
        spirit, and it is an uphill battle to shake the HimalayanMountain.
        Mixing the
        theological/ecclesiastical issue with the secular decisions
        Making ignorance as our
        religion can’t find salvation. Why do you confuse the readers by mixing with
        ecclesiastical/ theological issues with social issues because they are of at
        stellar distance apart? Jesus and His disciples and the Fathers of 6, 000 years
        have never allowed women to offer any sacrifices to God in any religious
        realms. Has anyone got any revelations now that the Edenstatute can be changed and woman to exchange her sex
        and maternal roles to man? These covenants will stay there till womanhood is substituted
        with manhood which takes place only in Heaven. The apostles and their
        ecclesiastical followers said it emphatically that the woman who touched the
        forbidden fruit is barred from grabbing the fruit from the Tree of Life. Jesus
        appeared to Mary Magdalene to explicitly convey us that He loved the sinners
        who repented, so also the first-born in paradise grabbed the robber because he
        proved himself as a repented sinner. Jesus and apostles' companionship and
        association never have granted women to dally with any religious mysteries. The
        Deaconesses of the early church, Rom.16: 1, in contrary to 1.Timo.2: 15, took
        the role of rehabilitating the adult women converts, loudly thundering that
        male clergy was not involved in adult women converts’ daily lives which can
        invite sexual corruptions.
        The complementing roles
        of man and woman
        I am getting number of
        mails on this topic now. “Doesn't
        that itself proves that "men and women are equal" to God? If so, why
        we, men don't set aside our egoism and accept
        the fact that was already accepted by the Creator, and allow certain
        "non-clergy" activities to realize some form of
        participation in the church? 
        So far I was
        writing in figurative language, now let me put in decent and plain language.
        There are differences, not only equalities, between man and woman. Man urinates
        by standing, while woman do it by sitting. This makes an unbridgeable gulf in
        their role functions and inner and physical make -up which God meant for the
        propagation of the species by allowing woman to be the mother of humanity and
        man the father of nations. Look at the warnings given to the priests.” And you
        shall not go up by steps to my altar, that your nakedness be not exposed on
        it”, Exo.20: 26. Why should the clergy wear number of layers of dress that
        cover the whole body in hot summer by sweating and wetting? In order to cover
        the nakedness that is the product of the disobedience which brought God
        defeated to His archenemy. I wrote elsewhere last week that if the Edencommandment violation ended up in the
        activation of sex, sensuality is the forbidden fruit during the second covenant
        period. The 7 vices that start with ‘kama’, sensuality, is the mother of all vices. Read the restrictions
        imposed upon the women who go through the period of monthly cycle and maternity
        period in the OT period. If male priest and his altar servers have to cover the
        whole body, woman has to be doubly careful because the suckling organ (actually
        the second ovary) of global shape is a sex magnet which attracts the attention
        of young and old. Woman being the weaker vessel, 1.Pet. 3: 4, is meant to be out of bound
        for any role in parish/church venues, the reason for not even allowing the
        husband and wife sitting or standing together or sitting together in the pew. This was the reason
        for our mothers used to come in the form of white garment dress and covering
        the front by a second outer wrap called ‘neriathu’ and make a fan like folded
        piece that cover the dress at the back.  Man and woman are not allowed to
        wear the same type of dress, Deu.22: 5; but these days all are wearing trousers
        that don’t double cover any of their private parts. Monthly cycle is a great
        barrier reef for woman to take any role in the religious arena. Sari is a
        second option, but the length of the blouse which eventually diminished to
        zero, started exhibiting the no man’s land that stretches to the limits of the
        peripheral imperatives became a headache. (Understand the full literary meaning
        of the ‘no man’s land in this context). In order to divert the attention of the
        celebrant’s physical beauty, his beard and cap make him a person of no
        existence, or the impersonation of the celebrant and sexton is the mask that
        hides behind the robes and a masked personal appearance. This could be the one
        of the reasons that he faces against the congregation. Some of the Orthodox
        churches don’t use a curtain or a veil to separate the sanctuary but a
        permanent separating screen which having the entry and exit doors because the
        clergy and servers shouldn’t be a hindrance to the congregation by the power of
        sex magnetism. God drove out Adam and Eve from the garden due to their sex
        dynamo which might have impelled them to pluck the Tree of Life.
        In a nutshell,
        de-sexing the parish/ church vicinity, mainly the key players of the liturgical
        performers, including the celebrant and sexton and altar assistants, has been
        the aim of such stringent restrictions which became the lifeblood of the
        But God postponed
        this adverse scenario till the end of the time, as He would collect as many
        good people from the human race which replaces the Lucifer legion for the next
        part of eternity. Women or mothers teaching others, cooking and helping the
        congregation, teaching Sunday schools, or any other lay roles have nothing to
        do with the sacraments and their applications. The apostle who allowed having
        homes as their worshipping places due to the fear of the enemies or closely
        associating with women in his ministry never allowed them to leave her home
        work and take part in any sacramental duties. Read 1.Cor. 7; 14, and 1.Tim.2
        and at many other places, that ends in, “yet woman will be saved through
        bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with
        modesty” because the advice given by St.Peter to husbands says that salvation
        of woman is also through her husband or the phrase he uses is ‘joint heirs for
        salvation’. Even the mother of God was out of bound for any sacramental
        “Time has come to
        realize that "both man and woman" were first created by the
        "same God" in a similar way, as He made both structures made out of
        "mud" by transferring  His own breath into these creations,
        called "man" and "woman" and made them functioning. “
        I refer only the
        Revised Standard bible because most of all other translations are wrong. God
        created man and women as ‘males’ only in the beginning (Heavenly manhood), Lk.
        20: 34; Gal.3: 26; Eph.4: 12, but the reference in the introductory part of the
        creation saga He created them as man and woman, Gen.1: 27-28, means that they
        were created in the form or shape of man and woman, a concrete example of giving
        a different double role of the urinating organ that also for procreating and giving
        birth children in case they fell by eating the fruit. The details in the 2nd chapter delineates that Adam was created first and then the woman from the rib
        of man, instead of creating them together from the same clay.  Hence woman
        is the part and parcel of man who also will have to diligently and humbly live
        and associate and co-operate with for her salvation also. ‘Kala, latha,
        vanitha’ needs supports for their growth. Her physical growth comes to maturity
        by three conceptions which man’s super role is an indispensable factor. If her
        physical development depends on man, surely God created woman as a dependent of
        his salvation. A man’s physical development comes to fruition by the age of 16,
        whereas her mammary and inner development comes to its zenith by 3 –time
         “Have you
        seen at any time the husband of "Queen Elizabeth??”walking in front of his
        wife? He doesn't even think about walking "side-by-side" with the
        Queen, instead he always walks behind the Queen. Is he an idiot? Or he is doing
        it with full respect of his wife and her position in which the whole world
        respectfully accepts and follows? Historically, this has been the same practice
        for "Queen Ann" also back then. In fact, many of the political
        leaders, such as Women "Prime Ministers", "Head of the
        Nation", "Governors", "women dignitaries in the legislative
        branches" are also respected”
        I am really
        embarrassed by this question. My God, even John the Baptist could become of
        lesser importance in Heaven than other martyrs or believers who are picked up
        in the NT period. Parish is one thing and parish school is another thing. It is
        a reverse of what is happening in the other world than what is seen here now.
        Lazarus sits at the bosom of Abraham, not the rich man who had a luxurious life
        on earth. How can people compare the ephemeral glory and celestial bliss? Don’t
        follow a political or secular spirituality that Herod, Pilate and the religious
        orders of the time of Christ practiced. If you want to give credit to the top
        order of the political system, accept Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodimus and the
        centurion who confessed at the foot of the cross that Jesus was the real
        saviour, and not to the entire corrupt prevailing system of the society. The
        sacraments have nothing to do with the morose social apparatus.
        Ordination in other churches
        If I can rely on
        to my memory, the Anglican Church that ordained women few years ago made a
        detailed survey by studying, opinion polls, etc from the parish level onwards
        before they made a decision in female ordination. I wrote last year that we
        also have to make a plebiscite opinion of our church members before embarking
        upon making a decision. Knowing that it would be favourable for them, they
        hastened for a final decision without giving a democratic chance for the silent
        majority. Such unethical move in writing off a 6, 000 year-old covenant is
        really suicidal from the very outset. However, “it is your time and the hour of
        darkness” that allow us to ‘reign in hell better than serving in Heaven’.
        Though they made such a survey and made grass root consultations, it was
        divided in the made and formed a different church by the dissidents under the
        name ‘Anglican Roman church’. 
        1. I ask you
        certain counter questions. Why Jesus didn’t take His birth as a woman in His
        Father, Joseph? 
        2. Why was not He
        born in India, though many of them were preparing for a
        Prajapathy to be born in accordance with the revelations given to the sages of
        that land?
        3. Why not His
        birth in the palaceof Herodor in the family of the High priests or in Elizabeth,
        Zechariah’s wife?
        God’s plan
        There are many
        such unanswered questions. Any sacrilege and profligacy is out of bound of
        Heavenly Jerusalem; thus God has a fixed plan which He carved out before the
        creation of earth and man. Nobody is allowed to fiddle with it because He
        didn’t want anybody’s help for the creation of the created orders, His birth in
        a manger, a colt for Palms Sunday and a sepulcher for His burial and removal of
        the stone from the front of the sepulcher for His resurrection. Everything is
        pre-ordained for His glory and might.
        Hope these
        explanations may be sufficient for your satisfaction and also for the church
        hierarchy to reverse its encyclical order at the last minute, if it wishes so.
        I am neither discriminating man from woman or am I a male chauvinist, but only
        exposing the biblical faith that the early fathers have handed down to us and
        continued so far on the issue of the complementing roles of man and woman. I
        write for the edification of the believers, not for making any battle or
        conflicts or rebellion, because it was practiced till now in the church, but
        changing it without any revelation from God is irreligious and un-apostolic. I
        send the message to the moderator with a request of not sending it to the
        recycling bin due to its length, but post it for the knowledge of the faithfuls
        who followed the footprints of the Fathers till now. May the Most Holy One
        enlighten us with the true knowledge of the kingdom that we are zealously
        waiting for.  
        As the commingling of both
        the sexes together can dynamite the church by sex profligacy, women’s roles in
        the church venues are un-spiritual and therefore they are out of bound in any
        religious venue of the parish or church.
        (Anyone can forward or sent
        this message to anyone, particularly to the church hierarchy, in this world, so
        that the suffering humanity has a chance to come to know about the Damocles’
        sword that hangs over our head.)
        E.S.John, Australia

        From: Bindu Scaria <bindusirs@...>
        To: MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2011 9:49 AM
        Subject: [ MOSC ] Re: OT reading by Women in Church

        It maybe possible that Bible reading by women may lead to women ordinations. Can the concerned Thirumeni address this concern of Mr. E.S. John . Rinu can contradict quite well but the postings are becoming tit-for tat rather than suggesting any solutions.

        This being a happy lent occasion I advise all to be joyful and cheer up one another.

        Dr. Bindu Scaria
        Group Moderator- MOSC

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.