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Are Angels are men?

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  • RinuSam
    Angels are SPIRITS(Hebrew 1:14)like the souls of men(human beings)but without physical body!God made man little less than angels(psalms 8:6) Angels are
    Message 1 of 18 , Nov 17, 2011
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      Angels are SPIRITS(Hebrew 1:14)like the souls of men(human beings)but without physical body!God made man little less than angels(psalms 8:6)

      Angels are stronger than men but not omnipotent!(Psalms 103.20,2Peter2:11)
      They are noble than men but not omnipresent(Daniel9:21-23,0:10-14)
      They are greater than men in knowledge but not omniscient(2 Samuel14:20, Mathew 24:36)
      Whenever angels appeared to men it was always in a human form(genesis18:2,19:1,Luke 24:4 and Acts 1:10)
      Angels never die(Luke 20:36)They possess superhuman intelligence and power(Mark13:22'2 Thessal 1:7, Psalms 103:20)

      Angels are God's providence(exodus 12:23,Psalms 104:4;Hebrew 11:28: @ Samuel24:16)
      They are Especially God's agents in carrying his great WORK Of REDEMPTION!(Gen.18,19:24:7,40:28:12,32:1)
      They carry souls of redeemed to Paradise(Luke16:22)and they will be ministers on the great Day of Judgement(Mathew13:39,41,49,16:27,24:31)

      In short,Angels does not have a physical body like human beings!

      With Regards
      Rinu Sam
      Nairobi
    • jose_ua
      Jesus said to them, Is this not the reason you are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God? For when they rise from the dead, they
      Message 2 of 18 , Nov 19, 2011
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        Jesus said to them, "Is this not the reason you are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God? For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. Mark 12- 24-26


        Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. 1 Corinthians 11:10

        Based on these two bible readings we see that angels are not like human beings i.e. either male or female. They are not governed by human laws or earthly natures. Like woman who was created for man so angels have been created for God. Like angels cover or reveal Gods glory so does a woman reveal or conceal her husbands glory appropriately.

        Our church woman have awoken to their rights but I pray that they awaken to their responsibilities also one such being not trying to become like men.

        Jose

        --- In MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com, "RinuSam" <rinsam2002@...> wrote:
        >
        > Angels are SPIRITS(Hebrew 1:14)like the souls of men(human beings)but without physical body!God made man little less than angels(psalms 8:6)
        >
        > Angels are stronger than men but not omnipotent!(Psalms 103.20,2Peter2:11)
        > They are noble than men but not omnipresent(Daniel9:21-23,0:10-14)
        > They are greater than men in knowledge but not omniscient(2 Samuel14:20, Mathew 24:36)
        > Whenever angels appeared to men it was always in a human form(genesis18:2,19:1,Luke 24:4 and Acts 1:10)
        > Angels never die(Luke 20:36)They possess superhuman intelligence and power(Mark13:22'2 Thessal 1:7, Psalms 103:20)
        >
        > Angels are God's providence(exodus 12:23,Psalms 104:4;Hebrew 11:28: @ Samuel24:16)
        > They are Especially God's agents in carrying his great WORK Of REDEMPTION!(Gen.18,19:24:7,40:28:12,32:1)
        > They carry souls of redeemed to Paradise(Luke16:22)and they will be ministers on the great Day of Judgement(Mathew13:39,41,49,16:27,24:31)
        >
        > In short,Angels does not have a physical body like human beings!
        >
        > With Regards
        > Rinu Sam
        > Nairobi
        >
      • RinuSam
        Dear Mr. Jose You are very right in quoting Both verses from scriptures, Mark12:24-26and 1Corinth 11:10! Yes women do have a symbol of authority on their
        Message 3 of 18 , Nov 19, 2011
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          Dear Mr. Jose
          You are very right in quoting Both verses from scriptures, Mark12:24-26and 1Corinth 11:10! Yes women do have a symbol of authority on their heads,by head covering( I corin:15)! since woman was taken out from man at the beginning and she was created as a partner or helper for man at the beginning!The principle of male headship in marriage/Family life continues through all generations!
          Headcovering of a woman is a sign of authority to participate generally in the church assembly BECAUSE OF THE ANGELS!(refer1.Corin 6:3 and Hebrew 1:7)Women and Men are both God's creation and are mutually interdependent at a basic level!Women is the glory of men in the sense of "one who shows excellence of"St.Paul argues that a women by excellence of her being,also shows how excellent man is! In the Lord woman is not independent of Man nor man of Woman(verse 11)Woman was made for man so man is now born of woman!And All things are from GOD!
          Surely women in our church are not becoming like men!

          With regards
          Rinu Sam
          --- In MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com, "jose_ua" <jose_ua@...> wrote:
          >
          > Jesus said to them, "Is this not the reason you are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God? For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. Mark 12- 24-26
          >
          >
          > Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. 1 Corinthians 11:10
          >
          > Based on these two bible readings we see that angels are not like human beings i.e. either male or female. They are not governed by human laws or earthly natures. Like woman who was created for man so angels have been created for God. Like angels cover or reveal Gods glory so does a woman reveal or conceal her husbands glory appropriately.
          >
          > Our church woman have awoken to their rights but I pray that they awaken to their responsibilities also one such being not trying to become like men.
          >
          > Jose
          >
          > --- In MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com, "RinuSam" <rinsam2002@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Angels are SPIRITS(Hebrew 1:14)like the souls of men(human beings)but without physical body!God made man little less than angels(psalms 8:6)
          > >
          > > Angels are stronger than men but not omnipotent!(Psalms 103.20,2Peter2:11)
          > > They are noble than men but not omnipresent(Daniel9:21-23,0:10-14)
          > > They are greater than men in knowledge but not omniscient(2 Samuel14:20, Mathew 24:36)
          > > Whenever angels appeared to men it was always in a human form(genesis18:2,19:1,Luke 24:4 and Acts 1:10)
          > > Angels never die(Luke 20:36)They possess superhuman intelligence and power(Mark13:22'2 Thessal 1:7, Psalms 103:20)
          > >
          > > Angels are God's providence(exodus 12:23,Psalms 104:4;Hebrew 11:28: @ Samuel24:16)
          > > They are Especially God's agents in carrying his great WORK Of REDEMPTION!(Gen.18,19:24:7,40:28:12,32:1)
          > > They carry souls of redeemed to Paradise(Luke16:22)and they will be ministers on the great Day of Judgement(Mathew13:39,41,49,16:27,24:31)
          > >
          > > In short,Angels does not have a physical body like human beings!
          > >
          > > With Regards
          > > Rinu Sam
          > > Nairobi
          > >
          >
        • ES John
          Dear Rinu Sam, The answer to this question is the counter question that asking, “Are men angels? Are angels men? While explaining about cross prostration, I
          Message 4 of 18 , Nov 20, 2011
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            Dear Rinu Sam,
            The answer to this question
            is the counter question that asking, “Are men angels? Are angels men? While explaining
            about cross prostration, I have drawn the conclusion that God made man in His
            own image of the cross and proved that God is also of the image of man. “And
            the Lord appeared to him by the Oaks of Mamre…He lifted up his eyes and looked,
            and behold 3 men stood in front of him….”, Gen.18: 1-15; Zec.!3: 7; Is.48;
            Gen.3: 22; Eze.1: 26. It is transparently clear that God is man or the
            Trinitarian God is 3 men. If God and man are in the shape of man, is there any
            doubt that angels are not of the human form. The angels are elder brothers of
            man who was created by His own hand. “As for likeness of their faces, each had
            the face of a man in front…”, Eze.1: 10, 5. I have prepared many messages as
            replies to your inflexible thoughts; my health is not good to continue writing
            for all the idiosyncrasies of many writers. Just as man is also spirit angels
            have also are of human form and spirits. Gal. 3: 26, 28; Lk.20: 34-40 also
            specify that man and woman are of human form and they will be like angels in Heaven.
            Though woman is of man’s form, she is in different functions which determine
            the maternal roles. This is the reason that woman was not given any roles in
            the church because they are meant for maternal roles and after all men after
            the resurrection.
            Altar Assistants
            We should only allow those boys or adults to
            be in the Holy Sanctuary if they come on their own accord and willingness to
            serve in the Holy place. They should at least prepare themselves from the eve
            of the worship and do their prescribed prayers and fasting by total dedication.
            Parents shouldn’t make it as place for the children to come there and show
            themselves off and learn and follow for the desire and glory of their parents
            in the parish and social life. Girls and women also should be aware that they
            are not allowed to come for OT readings because this has been out of bound for
            them so due very lucid and valid reasons.
            I write openly and without any reservations
            that the writing on the wall about the coming of the Kingdomof Godat hand is clearly visible due to the toppling down of the world’s social, secular,
            economic, religious and ecological order and even by human bombs who immolate
            themselves. As the modern man is a moving sepulcher in the technological
            graveyard of the globe, all these spontaneous and rapid changes are taking
            place in an alarming rate. If we don’t open our eyes and read the signs that
            are detrimentally affecting the humanity and the virginity of the church, we
            are not different from the religious orders of the Christ’s first coming. The
            social, secular and climatic changes that signal for a cataclysmic world disorder
            is the prologue for a religious catastrophe that uproot the sanctity of the
            church, the main concern for Jesus to come down and gather the minority
            faithful from the high-tech wasteland of this world. When the only Bride is
            succumbed to the seeming defeat by our desecration, the end is surely at hand.
            It is in keeping with the discipline of any
            traditional church that certain people are set apart for any special
            ministerial duties. Matters of discipline are there for some purpose. Ignoring
            such matters of discipline leads to the downfall of organizations, whether they
            are religious, social or political, and we see examples of that all around us
            Refer to Galatians 3:26-28: “It is through
            faith all of you are God's sons in union with Christ Jesus"...... God only
            has sons, no daughters in Heaven, the reason for our Fathers to practice a
            faith that is dear to the Triune God so far. Also learn a lesson that is
            clearly prescribing the sonship that we receive in Heaven, Lk.20: 34-38.
            Maternity is only for this world, and that role was given by God in Eden, Gen.3: 13-18. As this role cannot be exchanged to
            man, women are to obey their husbands and raise noble and ideal children for
            God.
             
            Let me put in simple and
            straightforward language now. Adam, the priest, prophet and king, was given
            with the commandment of not to eat from the forbidden fruit, when Eve only was
            in the loin of Adam. As the first commandment to the human race was given only
            to Adam, it was his duty to obey the Creator’s commandment. Eve was created
            only from Adam and still remained as the son of God till she ate and gave the
            fruit to Adam to gulp. Hence he is the direct representative of God, and she
            the representative’s representative. He for God and she for God in him formula,
            Gen.2: 18, was the aim of the creation of Eve. The seduction of Adam to eat the
            fruit that opened their nakedness prompted Eve to accuse serpent again was only
            for protection of her stand. Nobody took or shared the blame, but the
            accusation that followed by them doesn’t absolve them from their guilt.
            If nakedness was the result
            of the forbidden fruit, Gen.2: 25, 3: 7, the product of the first commandment,
            sex or sensuality, became the primary cause for the grabbing the fruit from the
            Tree of Life, Holy Liturgy, at the end of the time. Therefore, sex became the
            forbidden fruit in the sacrificial venue after the fall, the reason for not
            seeing any girls of Adam for the administration of the sacrifice.  The serpent’s conversation with Eve, Gen.3:
            1-7, certainly is directly applicable here. The fruit is good to look, become
            wise, not die etc is the seducing promises here by the laity to the
            ecclesiastical hierarchy. The attraction towards the tree of Life neutralized
            the sexual impulses now for snatching the fruit of Life. When the woman touch
            this fruit of Life in Orthodox churches, she and her supporters will come to
            know the nakedness that either we are in Paradiseor in hell, means the end of the time.
             
            No place for woman in any
            religious arena because it is the forbidden fruit. She being the weaker vessel,
            1.Pet, she has to follow man, not lead man because both are sons of God in
            Heaven, not here in this plane as long as the role of maternity remains with
            woman. Because Eve was created from man, woman also belongs to the clan of man,
            as Jesus said that “the sons of this age marry, and are given in marriage”,
            Lk.20: 34. The fallen man and woman therefore strive to get back to this
            celestial manhood, Eph.4: 13, by carrying the duplicate responsibility of
            complementing function of wedded life, thereby we attain the angelic manhood of
            the sons of resurrection, Lk.20: 36. Our Fathers knew all these fragments of
            chaste faith by shedding their own blood; but we forcibly try to change this
            pure Bride as the bride of the prince of perdition, but the Groom will descend
            like a thief in the night to collect her from the tentacles of the final
            cataclysm.
            As OT reading is a part of
            the liturgy, woman shouldn’t take part in it, nor should she dare to get into
            the sanctuary as altar assistants or celebrants in the Orthodox Church. Since
            the current of the time is totally against  continuing this pure virgin here, all these defilements will happen, but
            you and I shouldn’t countersign this filth which close our inner eye, the seat
            of God’s spirit in us.
             
            E.S.John, Australia

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • RinuSam
            Dear John Sir There is no need of Counter question here about angels! The scriptures clearly state/mention they are spirits! God Is Spirit(john 4:24;2 Corinth
            Message 5 of 18 , Nov 20, 2011
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              Dear John Sir
              There is no need of Counter question here about angels! The scriptures clearly state/mention they are spirits!
              God Is Spirit(john 4:24;2 Corinth 3:17), the Son of God Jesus Christ revealed Him,The "WORD"Which was God,became Flesh!
              Ezekiel 1:26,The Man on sapphire ...and throne prefigures Christ,the incarnation of son of God from the virgin Mary!
              Although the angels appeared in human form to many people they are not
              human beings as they are not created from dust or from earth!They are heavenly creatures!
              In the resurrection,the human beings(male/Female) are like angels and are sons of God, being sons of Resurrection! Sons of resurrection are angels and they are not in human form!Refer epistle of 1 John 3:2!
              In the book of Revelation 20:4 the writer John Saw the Souls of those who had been beheaded,those who had not worshiped the beast! there he only saw the souls not human form who are reigning with God as Priests of God and Christ in first resurrection!

              The old testament reading of bible not conducted in Sanctuary or Altar in orthodox churches! If Christ is born of Virgin Mary or from woman and woman reading Bible in Church outside altar or sanctuary is not precisely a sin or mistake!Moreover the Risen Christ first appeared to Mary Magdalene before ascending to his Father!"I am ascending to your father and to my father,to your God and to my God"the message given by Christ to Mary Magdalene should be noted carefully in its real sense!


              With regards
              Rinu Sam
              Nairobi

              --- In MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com, ES John <john_aliceau@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear Rinu Sam,
              > The answer to this question
              > is the counter question that asking, “Are men angels? Are angels men? While explaining
              > about cross prostration, I have drawn the conclusion that God made man in His
              > own image of the cross and proved that God is also of the image of man. “And
              > the Lord appeared to him by the Oaks of Mamre…He lifted up his eyes and looked,
              > and behold 3 men stood in front of him….”, Gen.18: 1-15; Zec.!3: 7; Is.48;
              > Gen.3: 22; Eze.1: 26. It is transparently clear that God is man or the
              > Trinitarian God is 3 men. If God and man are in the shape of man, is there any
              > doubt that angels are not of the human form. The angels are elder brothers of
              > man who was created by His own hand. “As for likeness of their faces, each had
              > the face of a man in front…”, Eze.1: 10, 5. I have prepared many messages as
              > replies to your inflexible thoughts; my health is not good to continue writing
              > for all the idiosyncrasies of many writers. Just as man is also spirit angels
              > have also are of human form and spirits. Gal. 3: 26, 28; Lk.20: 34-40 also
              > specify that man and woman are of human form and they will be like angels in Heaven.
              > Though woman is of man’s form, she is in different functions which determine
              > the maternal roles. This is the reason that woman was not given any roles in
              > the church because they are meant for maternal roles and after all men after
              > the resurrection.
              > Altar Assistants
              > We should only allow those boys or adults to
              > be in the Holy Sanctuary if they come on their own accord and willingness to
              > serve in the Holy place. They should at least prepare themselves from the eve
              > of the worship and do their prescribed prayers and fasting by total dedication.
              > Parents shouldn’t make it as place for the children to come there and show
              > themselves off and learn and follow for the desire and glory of their parents
              > in the parish and social life. Girls and women also should be aware that they
              > are not allowed to come for OT readings because this has been out of bound for
              > them so due very lucid and valid reasons.
              > I write openly and without any reservations
              > that the writing on the wall about the coming of the Kingdomof Godat hand is clearly visible due to the toppling down of the world’s social, secular,
              > economic, religious and ecological order and even by human bombs who immolate
              > themselves. As the modern man is a moving sepulcher in the technological
              > graveyard of the globe, all these spontaneous and rapid changes are taking
              > place in an alarming rate. If we don’t open our eyes and read the signs that
              > are detrimentally affecting the humanity and the virginity of the church, we
              > are not different from the religious orders of the Christ’s first coming. The
              > social, secular and climatic changes that signal for a cataclysmic world disorder
              > is the prologue for a religious catastrophe that uproot the sanctity of the
              > church, the main concern for Jesus to come down and gather the minority
              > faithful from the high-tech wasteland of this world. When the only Bride is
              > succumbed to the seeming defeat by our desecration, the end is surely at hand.
              > It is in keeping with the discipline of any
              > traditional church that certain people are set apart for any special
              > ministerial duties. Matters of discipline are there for some purpose. Ignoring
              > such matters of discipline leads to the downfall of organizations, whether they
              > are religious, social or political, and we see examples of that all around us
              > Refer to Galatians 3:26-28: “It is through
              > faith all of you are God's sons in union with Christ Jesus"...... God only
              > has sons, no daughters in Heaven, the reason for our Fathers to practice a
              > faith that is dear to the Triune God so far. Also learn a lesson that is
              > clearly prescribing the sonship that we receive in Heaven, Lk.20: 34-38.
              > Maternity is only for this world, and that role was given by God in Eden, Gen.3: 13-18. As this role cannot be exchanged to
              > man, women are to obey their husbands and raise noble and ideal children for
              > God.
              >  
              > Let me put in simple and
              > straightforward language now. Adam, the priest, prophet and king, was given
              > with the commandment of not to eat from the forbidden fruit, when Eve only was
              > in the loin of Adam. As the first commandment to the human race was given only
              > to Adam, it was his duty to obey the Creator’s commandment. Eve was created
              > only from Adam and still remained as the son of God till she ate and gave the
              > fruit to Adam to gulp. Hence he is the direct representative of God, and she
              > the representative’s representative. He for God and she for God in him formula,
              > Gen.2: 18, was the aim of the creation of Eve. The seduction of Adam to eat the
              > fruit that opened their nakedness prompted Eve to accuse serpent again was only
              > for protection of her stand. Nobody took or shared the blame, but the
              > accusation that followed by them doesn’t absolve them from their guilt.
              > If nakedness was the result
              > of the forbidden fruit, Gen.2: 25, 3: 7, the product of the first commandment,
              > sex or sensuality, became the primary cause for the grabbing the fruit from the
              > Tree of Life, Holy Liturgy, at the end of the time. Therefore, sex became the
              > forbidden fruit in the sacrificial venue after the fall, the reason for not
              > seeing any girls of Adam for the administration of the sacrifice.  The serpent’s conversation with Eve, Gen.3:
              > 1-7, certainly is directly applicable here. The fruit is good to look, become
              > wise, not die etc is the seducing promises here by the laity to the
              > ecclesiastical hierarchy. The attraction towards the tree of Life neutralized
              > the sexual impulses now for snatching the fruit of Life. When the woman touch
              > this fruit of Life in Orthodox churches, she and her supporters will come to
              > know the nakedness that either we are in Paradiseor in hell, means the end of the time.
              >  
              > No place for woman in any
              > religious arena because it is the forbidden fruit. She being the weaker vessel,
              > 1.Pet, she has to follow man, not lead man because both are sons of God in
              > Heaven, not here in this plane as long as the role of maternity remains with
              > woman. Because Eve was created from man, woman also belongs to the clan of man,
              > as Jesus said that “the sons of this age marry, and are given in marriage”,
              > Lk.20: 34. The fallen man and woman therefore strive to get back to this
              > celestial manhood, Eph.4: 13, by carrying the duplicate responsibility of
              > complementing function of wedded life, thereby we attain the angelic manhood of
              > the sons of resurrection, Lk.20: 36. Our Fathers knew all these fragments of
              > chaste faith by shedding their own blood; but we forcibly try to change this
              > pure Bride as the bride of the prince of perdition, but the Groom will descend
              > like a thief in the night to collect her from the tentacles of the final
              > cataclysm.
              > As OT reading is a part of
              > the liturgy, woman shouldn’t take part in it, nor should she dare to get into
              > the sanctuary as altar assistants or celebrants in the Orthodox Church. Since
              > the current of the time is totally against  continuing this pure virgin here, all these defilements will happen, but
              > you and I shouldn’t countersign this filth which close our inner eye, the seat
              > of God’s spirit in us.
              >  
              > E.S.John, Australia
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • ES John
              Dear Rinu Sam, ________________________________ From: RinuSam To: MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, 21
              Message 6 of 18 , Nov 21, 2011
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                Dear Rinu Sam,



                ________________________________
                From: RinuSam <rinsam2002@...>
                To: MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, 21 November 2011 4:30 PM
                Subject: [ MOSC ] Re: Are Angels are men?


                 
                Dear Rinu Sam,
                Due to my aging problems, I can't sit and contradict what you say without any lucid thinking or logic.
                "There is no need of Counter question here about angels! The scriptures clearly state/mention they are spirits!
                God Is Spirit(john 4:24;2 Corinth 3:17), the Son of God Jesus Christ revealed Him,The "WORD"Which was God,became Flesh!
                Ezekiel 1:26,The Man on sapphire ...and throne prefigures Christ,the incarnation of son of God from the virgin Mary!
                Although the angels appeared in human form to many people they are not
                human beings as they are not created from dust or from earth!They are heavenly creatures!
                In the resurrection,the human beings(male/Female) are like angels and are sons of God, being sons of Resurrection! Sons of resurrection are angels and they are not in human form!Refer epistle of 1 John 3:2!
                In the book of Revelation 20:4 the writer John Saw the Souls of those who had been beheaded,those who had not worshiped the beast! there he only saw the souls not human form who are reigning with God as Priests of God and Christ in first resurrection!"
                How many times I wrote that as man is spirit though wrapped around with a human form, God is Spirit with a human form.  Eze. 1: 26 shows jesus, the Son of man in human form, so also is the Father, Jn 10: 30. Souls means human beings appearing in spiritual body, and that body is in human shape or form, 1.Cor.15. Umless you come out of your mould, nothing can change your attitude.

                "The old testament reading of bible not conducted in Sanctuary or Altar in orthodox churches! If Christ is born of Virgin Mary or from woman and woman reading Bible in Church outside altar or sanctuary is not precisely a sin or mistake!Moreover the Risen Christ first appeared to Mary Magdalene before ascending to his Father!"I am ascending to your father and to my father,to your God and to my God"the message given by Christ to Mary Magdalene should be noted carefully in its real sense!"
                I think that you haven't tried to understand anything what i have tried to prove. I wrote many, many times that christ appeared to Mary magadalene was not to exhibit the sex equality, but to prove that He loved sinners because the Lord drove out 7 demons from her, so also His first fruit was the robber who was plucked out first not because he was a man, but on accounts of loving a man who attested that He was the Lamb of God. Thus Jesus proved that he love a repenting sinner.
                I have many other points to be discussed here, but it will only raise my blood pressure that doesn't have any outcome. hence I stop.

                ES John, Australia
                --- In MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com, ES John <john_aliceau@...> wrote:
                >
                > Dear Rinu Sam,
                > The answer to this question
                > is the counter question that asking, “Are men angels? Are angels men? While explaining
                > about cross prostration, I have drawn the conclusion that God made man in His
                > own image of the cross and proved that God is also of the image of man. “And
                > the Lord appeared to him by the Oaks of Mamre…He lifted up his eyes and looked,
                > and behold 3 men stood in front of him….”, Gen.18: 1-15; Zec.!3: 7; Is.48;
                > Gen.3: 22; Eze.1: 26. It is transparently clear that God is man or the
                > Trinitarian God is 3 men. If God and man are in the shape of man, is there any
                > doubt that angels are not of the human form. The angels are elder brothers of
                > man who was created by His own hand. “As for likeness of their faces, each had
                > the face of a man in front…”, Eze.1: 10, 5. I have prepared many messages as
                > replies to your inflexible thoughts; my health is not good to continue writing
                > for all the idiosyncrasies of many writers. Just as man is also spirit angels
                > have also are of human form and spirits. Gal. 3: 26, 28; Lk.20: 34-40 also
                > specify that man and woman are of human form and they will be like angels in Heaven.
                > Though woman is of man’s form, she is in different functions which determine
                > the maternal roles. This is the reason that woman was not given any roles in
                > the church because they are meant for maternal roles and after all men after
                > the resurrection.
                > Altar Assistants
                > We should only allow those boys or adults to
                > be in the Holy Sanctuary if they come on their own accord and willingness to
                > serve in the Holy place. They should at least prepare themselves from the eve
                > of the worship and do their prescribed prayers and fasting by total dedication.
                > Parents shouldn’t make it as place for the children to come there and show
                > themselves off and learn and follow for the desire and glory of their parents
                > in the parish and social life. Girls and women also should be aware that they
                > are not allowed to come for OT readings because this has been out of bound for
                > them so due very lucid and valid reasons.
                > I write openly and without any reservations
                > that the writing on the wall about the coming of the Kingdomof Godat hand is clearly visible due to the toppling down of the world’s social, secular,
                > economic, religious and ecological order and even by human bombs who immolate
                > themselves. As the modern man is a moving sepulcher in the technological
                > graveyard of the globe, all these spontaneous and rapid changes are taking
                > place in an alarming rate. If we don’t open our eyes and read the signs that
                > are detrimentally affecting the humanity and the virginity of the church, we
                > are not different from the religious orders of the Christ’s first coming. The
                > social, secular and climatic changes that signal for a cataclysmic world disorder
                > is the prologue for a religious catastrophe that uproot the sanctity of the
                > church, the main concern for Jesus to come down and gather the minority
                > faithful from the high-tech wasteland of this world. When the only Bride is
                > succumbed to the seeming defeat by our desecration, the end is surely at hand.
                > It is in keeping with the discipline of any
                > traditional church that certain people are set apart for any special
                > ministerial duties. Matters of discipline are there for some purpose. Ignoring
                > such matters of discipline leads to the downfall of organizations, whether they
                > are religious, social or political, and we see examples of that all around us
                > Refer to Galatians 3:26-28: “It is through
                > faith all of you are God's sons in union with Christ Jesus"...... God only
                > has sons, no daughters in Heaven, the reason for our Fathers to practice a
                > faith that is dear to the Triune God so far. Also learn a lesson that is
                > clearly prescribing the sonship that we receive in Heaven, Lk.20: 34-38.
                > Maternity is only for this world, and that role was given by God in Eden, Gen.3: 13-18. As this role cannot be exchanged to
                > man, women are to obey their husbands and raise noble and ideal children for
                > God.
                >  
                > Let me put in simple and
                > straightforward language now. Adam, the priest, prophet and king, was given
                > with the commandment of not to eat from the forbidden fruit, when Eve only was
                > in the loin of Adam. As the first commandment to the human race was given only
                > to Adam, it was his duty to obey the Creator’s commandment. Eve was created
                > only from Adam and still remained as the son of God till she ate and gave the
                > fruit to Adam to gulp. Hence he is the direct representative of God, and she
                > the representative’s representative. He for God and she for God in him formula,
                > Gen.2: 18, was the aim of the creation of Eve. The seduction of Adam to eat the
                > fruit that opened their nakedness prompted Eve to accuse serpent again was only
                > for protection of her stand. Nobody took or shared the blame, but the
                > accusation that followed by them doesn’t absolve them from their guilt.
                > If nakedness was the result
                > of the forbidden fruit, Gen.2: 25, 3: 7, the product of the first commandment,
                > sex or sensuality, became the primary cause for the grabbing the fruit from the
                > Tree of Life, Holy Liturgy, at the end of the time. Therefore, sex became the
                > forbidden fruit in the sacrificial venue after the fall, the reason for not
                > seeing any girls of Adam for the administration of the sacrifice.  The serpent’s conversation with Eve, Gen.3:
                > 1-7, certainly is directly applicable here. The fruit is good to look, become
                > wise, not die etc is the seducing promises here by the laity to the
                > ecclesiastical hierarchy. The attraction towards the tree of Life neutralized
                > the sexual impulses now for snatching the fruit of Life. When the woman touch
                > this fruit of Life in Orthodox churches, she and her supporters will come to
                > know the nakedness that either we are in Paradiseor in hell, means the end of the time.
                >  
                > No place for woman in any
                > religious arena because it is the forbidden fruit. She being the weaker vessel,
                > 1.Pet, she has to follow man, not lead man because both are sons of God in
                > Heaven, not here in this plane as long as the role of maternity remains with
                > woman. Because Eve was created from man, woman also belongs to the clan of man,
                > as Jesus said that “the sons of this age marry, and are given in marriage”,
                > Lk.20: 34. The fallen man and woman therefore strive to get back to this
                > celestial manhood, Eph.4: 13, by carrying the duplicate responsibility of
                > complementing function of wedded life, thereby we attain the angelic manhood of
                > the sons of resurrection, Lk.20: 36. Our Fathers knew all these fragments of
                > chaste faith by shedding their own blood; but we forcibly try to change this
                > pure Bride as the bride of the prince of perdition, but the Groom will descend
                > like a thief in the night to collect her from the tentacles of the final
                > cataclysm.
                > As OT reading is a part of
                > the liturgy, woman shouldn’t take part in it, nor should she dare to get into
                > the sanctuary as altar assistants or celebrants in the Orthodox Church. Since
                > the current of the time is totally against  continuing this pure virgin here, all these defilements will happen, but
                > you and I shouldn’t countersign this filth which close our inner eye, the seat
                > of God’s spirit in us.
                >  
                > E.S.John, Australia
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • RinuSam
                Dear John Sir Due to your Physical Weakness/health problems kindly relax.May God give you strength and courage to overcome all physical difficulties! In
                Message 7 of 18 , Nov 21, 2011
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                  Dear John Sir
                  Due to your Physical Weakness/health problems kindly relax.May God give you strength and courage to overcome all physical difficulties!
                  In Christ There is no Male or Female!Orthodox Churches are not making any women priests!Further to this Our Church is not making women equal to men!
                  At resurrection human beings are going to be like Angels or to be heavenly bodies!Corruptible bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of heaven hence human beings need resurrection!Christians who are alive at the time of resurrection will be transformed so that their bodies become spiritual and immortal like the bodies of those who are resurrected from the dead(1 Thessal,4:13-18)God made man as male and female from the beginning,completely equal in their value and in their full humanity and yet distinct in the way they relate and function!The distinct roles men and women are grounded in the nature of God(1 Corin 11:3) and were part of God's very good creation before the fall!Both men and women are made in the image of God,both are equally fallen and both are equally redeemable,and are equally to be resurrected,and glorified!


                  with Regards
                  Rinu Sam
                • john cherian
                  Dear Rinu Sam, please,,,and sorry,, Next time don t ask,,,,Are trees are angel? God LORD created separate thing for separate reasons. you can understand GOD
                  Message 8 of 18 , Nov 22, 2011
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                    Dear Rinu Sam,

                    please,,,and sorry,,

                    Next time don't ask,,,,Are trees are angel?

                    God LORD created separate thing for separate reasons.

                    you can understand GOD LORD made trees before human, Knowledge's Tree and Life's Tree...like.

                    Do you think what they have............

                    GOD LORD took it to Eden Garden......Why?


                    Please read the BIBLE you will get all the answer?

                    Do not feel it, try to think on it....

                    Do not wait for miracle.. try to get knowledge....

                    GOD BLESS YOU!!
                  • RinuSam
                    Dear John Sir The issue here is Angels(spiritual beings/heavenly bodies) and not Sex Equality of the world!In Malankara Orthodox Church we are not making women
                    Message 9 of 18 , Nov 22, 2011
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                      Dear John Sir
                      The issue here is Angels(spiritual beings/heavenly bodies) and not Sex Equality of the world!In Malankara Orthodox Church we are not making women equal to men!The Old testament bible reading by women in church, prior to Holy Qurbana, has nothing to do with women entering into sanctuary or altar!During early apostolic ministry of St.Paul ,the women served as deaconess!What was their role then in church is not mentioned/stated in Bible!But I would kindly request you to learn from Church fathers about it!I have not contradicted here anything about Gender issue or equality based on scriptures!I did not write/mention/quote that appearance of Risen Christ to Mary Magdalene about sex equality!Both baptized male and female are one in Christ(Gal3:29)the old testament reading is not priestly work or duty!
                      The Sons of resurrection are like angels in heaven!Both true christian men and women of this world change into Sons of God/sons of resurrection after their physical death in this world!
                      When God created men They were made of Clay/dust from earth!This is why they are mortal bodies of earth!I have clearly understood what St.Paul wrote/recorded in his epistle 1 Corinth 15!
                      Regarding Cross,The Cross(Crux in Latin; Stauros in Greek) was used as a brutal,capital punishment death tool for Criminals by Romans and other nations! The cross they used by then vary in different dimensions/shapes like 'T', 'X','Y'!How can you say then God created man in Cross Shape?In Jewish religion there were no cross death as capital punishment but only death by Stoning!Jesus Christ died on Cross(true) which was demanded by Jewish High Priests and Sanhedrin Team/ their people!
                      God made man( as male and female )in His own image and likeness(genesis1:26-27)From the dust from the ground God made a living creature whose material body was absolutely earthly but whose source of life was decidedly divine!Since God is the creator of human Life all human beings belong to God!The bible nowhere explains precisely what constitutes the image of God!What theologians or interpreters have suggested the image includes(i)human beings upright bodily form,(2)Human domination over nature(3)Human reason(4)Human pre-fallen righteousness(5)human capacities (6) responsible creature hood and moral conformity to God(7) personhood etc etc
                      The Image of God means that human beings are like God(in several ways) and represent God on earth.
                      "The promise is for you and your children..."(acts 2:39) The promise(sonship)was not for Jews alone it includes all nations and gentiles including children both male and female! The sonship was a promise made by Lord God to Abraham and his descendants but now available for all those who believed in Jesus Christ and baptized in Christ!

                      With regarda
                      Rinu Sam
                    • RinuSam
                      Dear John Cherian please go through my comments on 17th november on this forum regarding angels rather than contradicting what I Originally wrote or
                      Message 10 of 18 , Nov 23, 2011
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                        Dear John Cherian
                        please go through my comments on 17th november on this forum regarding angels rather than contradicting what I Originally wrote or commented in this forum!
                        Did I Put such questions here on Tree of Life/tree of knowledge for you make such comments?

                        Regards
                        Rinu Sam
                        Nairobi



                        --- In MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com, john cherian <john_cherian15@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Dear Rinu Sam,
                        >
                        > please,,,and sorry,,
                        >
                        > Next time don't ask,,,,Are trees are angel?
                        >
                        > God LORD created separate thing for separate reasons.
                        >
                        > you can understand GOD LORD made trees before human, Knowledge's Tree and Life's Tree...like.
                        >
                        > Do you think what they have............
                        >
                        > GOD LORD took it to Eden Garden......Why?
                        >
                        >
                        > Please read the BIBLE you will get all the answer?
                        >
                        > Do not feel it, try to think on it....
                        >
                        > Do not wait for miracle.. try to get knowledge....
                        >
                        > GOD BLESS YOU!!
                        >
                      • Samy
                        Dear John Cherian Could please tell/describe what insensible or not logical comments that Rinu Sam made regarding Angels in this forum? Best Regards SamThomas
                        Message 11 of 18 , Nov 23, 2011
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                          Dear John Cherian
                          Could please tell/describe what insensible or not logical comments that Rinu Sam made regarding Angels in this forum?
                          Best Regards
                          SamThomas


                          --- In MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com, john cherian <john_cherian15@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > Dear Rinu Sam,
                          >
                          > please,,,and sorry,,
                          >
                          > Next time don't ask,,,,Are trees are angel?
                          >
                          > God LORD created separate thing for separate reasons.
                          >
                          > you can understand GOD LORD made trees before human, Knowledge's Tree and Life's Tree...like.
                          >
                          > Do you think what they have............
                          >
                          > GOD LORD took it to Eden Garden......Why?
                          >
                          >
                          > Please read the BIBLE you will get all the answer?
                          >
                          > Do not feel it, try to think on it....
                          >
                          > Do not wait for miracle.. try to get knowledge....
                          >
                          > GOD BLESS YOU!!
                          >
                        • ES John
                          Dear Rinu Sam, Many ideas are in the markets that derive from different sites and articles written from their own conveniences and logic. The Orthodox faith is
                          Message 12 of 18 , Nov 23, 2011
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                            Dear Rinu Sam,
                            Many
                            ideas are in the markets that derive from different sites and articles
                            written from their own conveniences and logic. The Orthodox faith is
                            rooted in the scriptural and traditional details. If all others are
                            saying the correct things, how come our Fathers ignored these novel
                            ideas. Give biblical proof to base your cerebrations.


                            If one or two of our thirumenis are the authority, why this practise was not there in the Church so far. I believe that I have written some books and many messages and
                            articles on the role of women in the church, as well as in the family.
                            Now women are in the workforce, the reason for accepting the women's
                            liberation pressure of the secular system to become as a credentials
                            for Orthodox Church. These are all political pressures and the signs of political spirituality. "Dog is ok,
                            but beware of the owner" is the warnings to be taken very seriously. As
                            money became our master, we are blind and do anything by vandalising
                            the faith of the church.
                            What is the differnce between liturgy and
                            celebration? My article covers most of your doubts raised here. I have
                            written the role of the cross in my last month's article on cross
                            prostration. How can i write again and again when my health is in the
                            danger zone.

                            As there is no sex in Heaven, no sex or its
                            flavour in the church, the main reason for not women involved in any
                            activities of the parish/ church. OT readings must be done by males who
                            has the worship or serving uniform, kupayam. It doesn't mean that make
                            a uniform for women and start reading the OT . Women are out of bound
                            for any religious performances; theoretically their church is their own
                            home, bringing up children and caring the husband and other dependents.
                            There are theological reasons too, and I have explained that in my
                            previous message.
                            ES John, Australia

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • RinuSam
                            Dear John Sir There is nothing more I can quote from Bible regarding Women reading OT in church! public Celebrations of Holy Eucharist is based on Scriptures
                            Message 13 of 18 , Nov 23, 2011
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                              Dear John Sir
                              There is nothing more I can quote from Bible regarding Women reading OT in church! public Celebrations of Holy Eucharist is based on Scriptures from beginning to end!You may know the Hymn we recite after baptism of children,partaking Holy Eucharist/Holy Communion"the fruit that Adam did not taste in the garden of Eden...." That is the Holy Eucharist being served to without any discrimination those male and female baptized!
                              It was Whole Synod of Malankara Orthodox church who made the decision and believe they had considered all theological aspects before they approved it!

                              with regards
                              Rinu Sam
                            • ES John
                              Dear Rinusam,   In Christ There is no Male or Female!Orthodox Churches are not making any women priests!Further to this Our Church is not making women equal
                              Message 14 of 18 , Nov 23, 2011
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                                Dear Rinusam,
                                 "In Christ There is no Male or Female!Orthodox Churches are not making
                                any women priests!Further to this Our Church is not making women equal
                                to men!
                                At resurrection human beings are going to be like Angels or to be
                                heavenly bodies!Corruptible bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of heaven
                                hence human beings need resurrection!Christians who are alive at the
                                time of resurrection will be transformed so that their bodies become
                                spiritual and immortal like the bodies of those who are resurrected
                                from the dead(1 Thessal,4:13-18)God made man as male and female from
                                the beginning,completely equal in their value and in their full
                                humanity and yet distinct in the way they relate and function!The
                                distinct roles men and women are grounded in the nature of God(1 Corin
                                11:3) and were part of God's very good creation before the fall!Both
                                men and women are made in the image of God,both are equally fallen and
                                both are equally redeemable,and are equally to be resurrected,and
                                glorified!
                                We are saying same and agreeing it. "

                                In Christ we are the same, but we haven't reached to the realm of Christ who is sitting at the right hand of God. In order to reach there there are multitude of things that we have to follow. If you won't make any women priests, why have you observed a day as black banner day last month by the reprimand of the ex-SreeSamajam Secretary. The Anglican church ordained its priest in the 1980s by various kinds of protests and non-co-operation; then they bargained and protested and grabbed the position of bishops; the next aim is Canterbury. Look at our saga of developments.
                                First, taking girls to the altar after baptism, followed by women preachers, Sunday school teachers and so on.
                                then as observers in Parish meetings, then voting rights, then OT reading, then serving as acolytes, then deaconess, then priesthood, next bishop and so on. It is the power game that brings money is the aim of the doomsday culture. 
                                If man and woman are the same, why do segregate them in our public and social life. Why don't we move in Adam's dress that was prior to his fall? If we remove the boundary, animals will be proven as a better species. Now also sex slavery and sex trading has changed this world as a synonym of inferno.


                                Go ahead; I don't bar you anybody.

                                E.S.John, Australia.


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • rinsamkenya
                                Dear John Cherian Kindly make sensible and constructive comments before you critisize! With regards Thomas Samuel
                                Message 15 of 18 , Nov 24, 2011
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                                  Dear John Cherian
                                  Kindly make sensible and constructive comments before you critisize!
                                  With regards
                                  Thomas Samuel


                                  --- In MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com, john cherian <john_cherian15@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Dear Rinu Sam,
                                  >
                                  > please,,,and sorry,,
                                  >
                                  > Next time don't ask,,,,Are trees are angel?
                                  >
                                  > God LORD created separate thing for separate reasons.
                                  >
                                  > you can understand GOD LORD made trees before human, Knowledge's Tree and Life's Tree...like.
                                  >
                                  > Do you think what they have............
                                  >
                                  > GOD LORD took it to Eden Garden......Why?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Please read the BIBLE you will get all the answer?
                                  >
                                  > Do not feel it, try to think on it....
                                  >
                                  > Do not wait for miracle.. try to get knowledge....
                                  >
                                  > GOD BLESS YOU!!
                                  >
                                • john cherian
                                  hello,   hai man,   I am sorry,,   I don t have a good English, but anyway,,,,, GOD LORD s  last creation was man.......and woman... Lucifer is the first
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Nov 24, 2011
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                                    hello,

                                     
                                    hai man,
                                     
                                    I am sorry,,
                                     
                                    I don't have a good English, but
                                    anyway,,,,,
                                    GOD
                                    LORD's  last creation was man.......and woman...
                                    Lucifer is the first Angel  before GOD LORD created Angels..


                                    and
                                    now this  Angel, we know him as  Devil....
                                    Man
                                    came to Abraham,,,Men visit to Luth,,One man fought with Yakub,,,


                                    they are in man form...
                                    I should read Rinu Sam's mail again..
                                     
                                    If we think in human feeling yes man are
                                    angels form.....
                                     
                                    We know through BIBLE,, about JESUS,,,,,how
                                    many time He asked to people....who AM I?....and told... I AM,
                                    WHO I AM....but still people of the world searching GOD...
                                     
                                    but GOD created us in face of GOD..
                                     
                                    So be like  A GOD..
                                     
                                    why like an angel....

                                    please mujhe maaf karna tumhari baat ko samaj nanhi paya main....
                                    Duth Aadmi ke rup main iss duniya main aataa hai...


                                    Appearance,
                                    Coming into existence, way somebody or something looks, outward aspect, performance
                                    or exhibition in public, attendance in crowd…


                                    Dear Rinu Sam,

                                    please,,,and sorry,,

                                    Next time don't ask,,,,Are trees are angel?

                                    God LORD created separate thing for separate reasons.

                                    you can understand GOD LORD made trees before human, Knowledge's Tree and Life's Tree...like.

                                    Do you think what they have............

                                    GOD LORD took it to Eden Garden......Why?


                                    Please read the BIBLE you will get all the answer?

                                    Do not feel it, try to think on it....

                                    Do not wait for miracle.. try to get knowledge....

                                    GOD BLESS YOU!!

                                     


                                    ----- Forwarded Message -----
                                    From: ES John <john_aliceau@...>



                                     


                                    ________________________________
                                    From: RinuSam <rinsam2002@...>
                                    To: MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Monday, 21 November 2011 4:30 PM
                                    Subject: [ MOSC ] Re: Are Angels are men?


                                     
                                    Dear Rinu Sam,
                                    Due to my aging problems, I can't sit and contradict what you say without any lucid thinking or logic.
                                    "There is no need of Counter question here about angels! The scriptures clearly state/mention they are spirits!
                                    God Is Spirit(john 4:24;2 Corinth 3:17), the Son of God Jesus Christ revealed Him,The "WORD"Which was God,became Flesh!
                                    Ezekiel 1:26,The Man on sapphire ...and throne prefigures Christ,the incarnation of son of God from the virgin Mary!
                                    Although the angels appeared in human form to many people they are not
                                    human beings as they are not created from dust or from earth!They are heavenly creatures!
                                    In the resurrection,the human beings(male/Female) are like angels and are sons of God, being sons of Resurrection! Sons of resurrection are angels and they are not in human form!Refer epistle of 1 John 3:2!
                                    In the book of Revelation 20:4 the writer John Saw the Souls of those who had been beheaded,those who had not worshiped the beast! there he only saw the souls not human form who are reigning with God as Priests of God and Christ in first resurrection!"
                                    How many times I wrote that as man is spirit though wrapped around with a human form, God is Spirit with a human form.  Eze. 1: 26 shows jesus, the Son of man in human form, so also is the Father, Jn 10: 30. Souls means human beings appearing in spiritual body, and that body is in human shape or form, 1.Cor.15. Umless you come out of your mould, nothing can change your attitude.

                                    "The old testament reading of bible not conducted in Sanctuary or Altar in orthodox churches! If Christ is born of Virgin Mary or from woman and woman reading Bible in Church outside altar or sanctuary is not precisely a sin or mistake!Moreover the Risen Christ first appeared to Mary Magdalene before ascending to his Father!"I am ascending to your father and to my father,to your God and to my God"the message given by Christ to Mary Magdalene should be noted carefully in its real sense!"
                                    I think that you haven't tried to understand anything what i have tried to prove. I wrote many, many times that christ appeared to Mary magadalene was not to exhibit the sex equality, but to prove that He loved sinners because the Lord drove out 7 demons from her, so also His first fruit was the robber who was plucked out first not because he was a man, but on accounts of loving a man who attested that He was the Lamb of God. Thus Jesus proved that he love a repenting sinner.
                                    I have many other points to be discussed here, but it will only raise my blood pressure that doesn't have any outcome. hence I stop.

                                    ES John, Australia
                                    --- In MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com, ES John <john_aliceau@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Dear Rinu Sam,
                                    > The answer to this question
                                    > is the counter question that asking, “Are men angels? Are angels men? While explaining
                                    > about cross prostration, I have drawn the conclusion that God made man in His
                                    > own image of the cross and proved that God is also of the image of man. “And
                                    > the Lord appeared to him by the Oaks of Mamre…He lifted up his eyes and looked,
                                    > and behold 3 men stood in front of him….”, Gen.18: 1-15; Zec.!3: 7; Is.48;
                                    > Gen.3: 22; Eze.1: 26. It is transparently clear that God is man or the
                                    > Trinitarian God is 3 men. If God and man are in the shape of man, is there any
                                    > doubt that angels are not of the human form. The angels are elder brothers of
                                    > man who was created by His own hand. “As for likeness of their faces, each had
                                    > the face of a man in front…”, Eze.1: 10, 5. I have prepared many messages as
                                    > replies to your inflexible thoughts; my health is not good to continue writing
                                    > for all the idiosyncrasies of many writers. Just as man is also spirit angels
                                    > have also are of human form and spirits. Gal. 3: 26, 28; Lk.20: 34-40 also
                                    > specify that man and woman are of human form and they will be like angels in Heaven.
                                    > Though woman is of man’s form, she is in different functions which determine
                                    > the maternal roles. This is the reason that woman was not given any roles in
                                    > the church because they are meant for maternal roles and after all men after
                                    > the resurrection.
                                    > Altar Assistants
                                    > We should only allow those boys or adults to
                                    > be in the Holy Sanctuary if they come on their own accord and willingness to
                                    > serve in the Holy place. They should at least prepare themselves from the eve
                                    > of the worship and do their prescribed prayers and fasting by total dedication.
                                    > Parents shouldn’t make it as place for the children to come there and show
                                    > themselves off and learn and follow for the desire and glory of their parents
                                    > in the parish and social life. Girls and women also should be aware that they
                                    > are not allowed to come for OT readings because this has been out of bound for
                                    > them so due very lucid and valid reasons.
                                    > I write openly and without any reservations
                                    > that the writing on the wall about the coming of the Kingdomof Godat hand is clearly visible due to the toppling down of the world’s social, secular,
                                    > economic, religious and ecological order and even by human bombs who immolate
                                    > themselves. As the modern man is a moving sepulcher in the technological
                                    > graveyard of the globe, all these spontaneous and rapid changes are taking
                                    > place in an alarming rate. If we don’t open our eyes and read the signs that
                                    > are detrimentally affecting the humanity and the virginity of the church, we
                                    > are not different from the religious orders of the Christ’s first coming. The
                                    > social, secular and climatic changes that signal for a cataclysmic world disorder
                                    > is the prologue for a religious catastrophe that uproot the sanctity of the
                                    > church, the main concern for Jesus to come down and gather the minority
                                    > faithful from the high-tech wasteland of this world. When the only Bride is
                                    > succumbed to the seeming defeat by our desecration, the end is surely at hand.
                                    > It is in keeping with the discipline of any
                                    > traditional church that certain people are set apart for any special
                                    > ministerial duties. Matters of discipline are there for some purpose. Ignoring
                                    > such matters of discipline leads to the downfall of organizations, whether they
                                    > are religious, social or political, and we see examples of that all around us
                                    > Refer to Galatians 3:26-28: “It is through
                                    > faith all of you are God's sons in union with Christ Jesus"...... God only
                                    > has sons, no daughters in Heaven, the reason for our Fathers to practice a
                                    > faith that is dear to the Triune God so far. Also learn a lesson that is
                                    > clearly prescribing the sonship that we receive in Heaven, Lk.20: 34-38.
                                    > Maternity is only for this world, and that role was given by God in Eden, Gen.3: 13-18. As this role cannot be exchanged to
                                    > man, women are to obey their husbands and raise noble and ideal children for
                                    > God.
                                    >  
                                    > Let me put in simple and
                                    > straightforward language now. Adam, the priest, prophet and king, was given
                                    > with the commandment of not to eat from the forbidden fruit, when Eve only was
                                    > in the loin of Adam. As the first commandment to the human race was given only
                                    > to Adam, it was his duty to obey the Creator’s commandment. Eve was created
                                    > only from Adam and still remained as the son of God till she ate and gave the
                                    > fruit to Adam to gulp. Hence he is the direct representative of God, and she
                                    > the representative’s representative. He for God and she for God in him formula,
                                    > Gen.2: 18, was the aim of the creation of Eve. The seduction of Adam to eat the
                                    > fruit that opened their nakedness prompted Eve to accuse serpent again was only
                                    > for protection of her stand. Nobody took or shared the blame, but the
                                    > accusation that followed by them doesn’t absolve them from their guilt.
                                    > If nakedness was the result
                                    > of the forbidden fruit, Gen.2: 25, 3: 7, the product of the first commandment,
                                    > sex or sensuality, became the primary cause for the grabbing the fruit from the
                                    > Tree of Life, Holy Liturgy, at the end of the time. Therefore, sex became the
                                    > forbidden fruit in the sacrificial venue after the fall, the reason for not
                                    > seeing any girls of Adam for the administration of the sacrifice.  The serpent’s conversation with Eve, Gen.3:
                                    > 1-7, certainly is directly applicable here. The fruit is good to look, become
                                    > wise, not die etc is the seducing promises here by the laity to the
                                    > ecclesiastical hierarchy. The attraction towards the tree of Life neutralized
                                    > the sexual impulses now for snatching the fruit of Life. When the woman touch
                                    > this fruit of Life in Orthodox churches, she and her supporters will come to
                                    > know the nakedness that either we are in Paradiseor in hell, means the end of the time.
                                    >  
                                    > No place for woman in any
                                    > religious arena because it is the forbidden fruit. She being the weaker vessel,
                                    > 1.Pet, she has to follow man, not lead man because both are sons of God in
                                    > Heaven, not here in this plane as long as the role of maternity remains with
                                    > woman. Because Eve was created from man, woman also belongs to the clan of man,
                                    > as Jesus said that “the sons of this age marry, and are given in marriage”,
                                    > Lk.20: 34. The fallen man and woman therefore strive to get back to this
                                    > celestial manhood, Eph.4: 13, by carrying the duplicate responsibility of
                                    > complementing function of wedded life, thereby we attain the angelic manhood of
                                    > the sons of resurrection, Lk.20: 36. Our Fathers knew all these fragments of
                                    > chaste faith by shedding their own blood; but we forcibly try to change this
                                    > pure Bride as the bride of the prince of perdition, but the Groom will descend
                                    > like a thief in the night to collect her from the tentacles of the final
                                    > cataclysm.
                                    > As OT reading is a part of
                                    > the liturgy, woman shouldn’t take part in it, nor should she dare to get into
                                    > the sanctuary as altar assistants or celebrants in the Orthodox Church. Since
                                    > the current of the time is totally against  continuing this pure virgin here, all these defilements will happen, but
                                    > you and I shouldn’t countersign this filth which close our inner eye, the seat
                                    > of God’s spirit in us.
                                    >  
                                    > E.S.John, Australia
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Sam Thomas
                                    Dear  John Cherian The topic/comments made by Rinu Sam  are about  Heavenly Angels or The Angels of God! He did not make any comments about fallen
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Nov 24, 2011
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                                      Dear  John Cherian
                                      The topic/comments made by Rinu Sam  are about  Heavenly Angels or The Angels of God! He did not make any comments about "fallen angels/Lucifer!
                                      Please do not mix up the topic or draw unnecessary comments!
                                      Best Regards
                                      Sam Thomas

                                      ________________________________
                                      From: john cherian <john_cherian15@...>
                                      To: "samtho55@..." <samtho55@...>; "MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com" <MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com>; "rinsam2002@..." <rinsam2002@...>
                                      Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 5:56 PM
                                      Subject: Are Angels are men?


                                      hello,


                                       
                                      hai man,
                                       
                                      I am sorry,,
                                       
                                      I don't have a good English, but
                                      anyway,,,,,
                                      GOD
                                      LORD's  last creation was man.......and woman...
                                      Lucifer is the first Angel  before GOD LORD created Angels..


                                      and
                                      now this  Angel, we know him as  Devil....
                                      Man
                                      came to Abraham,,,Men visit to Luth,,One man fought with Yakub,,,


                                      they are in man form...
                                      I should read Rinu Sam's mail again..
                                       
                                      If we think in human feeling yes man are
                                      angels form.....
                                       
                                      We know through BIBLE,, about JESUS,,,,,how
                                      many time He asked to people....who AM I?....and told... I AM,
                                      WHO I AM....but still people of the world searching GOD...
                                       
                                      but GOD created us in face of GOD..
                                       
                                      So be like  A GOD..
                                       
                                      why like an angel....

                                      please mujhe maaf karna tumhari baat ko samaj nanhi paya main....

                                      Duth Aadmi ke rup main iss duniya main aataa hai...


                                      Appearance,
                                      Coming into existence, way somebody or something looks, outward aspect, performance
                                      or exhibition in public, attendance in crowd…


                                      Dear Rinu Sam,

                                      please,,,and sorry,,

                                      Next time don't ask,,,,Are trees are angel?

                                      God LORD created separate thing for separate reasons.

                                      you can understand GOD LORD made trees before human, Knowledge's Tree and Life's Tree...like.

                                      Do you think what they have............

                                      GOD LORD took it to Eden Garden......Why?


                                      Please read the BIBLE you will get all the answer?

                                      Do not feel it, try to think on it....

                                      Do not wait for miracle.. try to get knowledge....

                                      GOD BLESS YOU!!

                                       


                                      ----- Forwarded Message -----
                                      From: ES John <john_aliceau@...>



                                       


                                      ________________________________
                                      From: RinuSam <rinsam2002@...>
                                      To: MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Monday, 21 November 2011 4:30 PM
                                      Subject: [ MOSC ] Re: Are Angels are men?


                                       
                                      Dear Rinu Sam,
                                      Due to my aging problems, I can't sit and contradict what you say without any lucid thinking or logic.
                                      "There is no need of Counter question here about angels! The scriptures clearly state/mention they are spirits!
                                      God Is Spirit(john 4:24;2 Corinth 3:17), the Son of God Jesus Christ revealed Him,The "WORD"Which was God,became Flesh!
                                      Ezekiel 1:26,The Man on sapphire ...and throne prefigures Christ,the incarnation of son of God from the virgin Mary!
                                      Although the angels appeared in human form to many people they are not
                                      human beings as they are not created from dust or from earth!They are heavenly creatures!
                                      In the resurrection,the human beings(male/Female) are like angels and are sons of God, being sons of Resurrection! Sons of resurrection are angels and they are not in human form!Refer epistle of 1 John 3:2!
                                      In the book of Revelation 20:4 the writer John Saw the Souls of those who had been beheaded,those who had not worshiped the beast! there he only saw the souls not human form who are reigning with God as Priests of God and Christ in first resurrection!"
                                      How many times I wrote that as man is spirit though wrapped around with a human form, God is Spirit with a human form.  Eze. 1: 26 shows jesus, the Son of man in human form, so also is the Father, Jn 10: 30. Souls means human beings appearing in spiritual body, and that body is in human shape or form, 1.Cor.15. Umless you come out of your mould, nothing can change your attitude.

                                      "The old testament reading of bible not conducted in Sanctuary or Altar in orthodox churches! If Christ is born of Virgin Mary or from woman and woman reading Bible in Church outside altar or sanctuary is not precisely a sin or mistake!Moreover the Risen Christ first appeared to Mary Magdalene before ascending to his Father!"I am ascending to your father and to my father,to your God and to my God"the message given by Christ to Mary Magdalene should be noted carefully in its real sense!"
                                      I think that you haven't tried to understand anything what i have tried to prove. I wrote many, many times that christ appeared to Mary magadalene was not to exhibit the sex equality, but to prove that He loved sinners because the Lord drove out 7 demons from her, so also His first fruit was the robber who was plucked out first not because he was a man, but on accounts of loving a man who attested that He was the Lamb of God. Thus Jesus proved that he love a repenting sinner.
                                      I have many other points to be discussed here, but it will only raise my blood pressure that doesn't have any outcome. hence I stop.

                                      ES John, Australia
                                      --- In MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com, ES John <john_aliceau@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Dear Rinu Sam,
                                      > The answer to this question
                                      > is the counter question that asking, “Are men angels? Are angels men? While explaining
                                      > about cross prostration, I have drawn the conclusion that God made man in His
                                      > own image of the cross and proved that God is also of the image of man. “And
                                      > the Lord appeared to him by the Oaks of Mamre…He lifted up his eyes and looked,
                                      > and behold 3 men stood in front of him….”, Gen.18: 1-15; Zec.!3: 7; Is.48;
                                      > Gen.3: 22; Eze.1: 26. It is transparently clear that God is man or the
                                      > Trinitarian God is 3 men. If God and man are in the shape of man, is there any
                                      > doubt that angels are not of the human form. The angels are elder brothers of
                                      > man who was created by His own hand. “As for likeness of their faces, each had
                                      > the face of a man in front…”, Eze.1: 10, 5. I have prepared many messages as
                                      > replies to your inflexible thoughts; my health is not good to continue writing
                                      > for all the idiosyncrasies of many writers. Just as man is also spirit angels
                                      > have also are of human form and spirits. Gal. 3: 26, 28; Lk.20: 34-40 also
                                      > specify that man and woman are of human form and they will be like angels in Heaven.
                                      > Though woman is of man’s form, she is in different functions which determine
                                      > the maternal roles. This is the reason that woman was not given any roles in
                                      > the church because they are meant for maternal roles and after all men after
                                      > the resurrection.
                                      > Altar Assistants
                                      > We should only allow those boys or adults to
                                      > be in the Holy Sanctuary if they come on their own accord and willingness to
                                      > serve in the Holy place. They should at least prepare themselves from the eve
                                      > of the worship and do their prescribed prayers and fasting by total dedication.
                                      > Parents shouldn’t make it as place for the children to come there and show
                                      > themselves off and learn and follow for the desire and glory of their parents
                                      > in the parish and social life. Girls and women also should be aware that they
                                      > are not allowed to come for OT readings because this has been out of bound for
                                      > them so due very lucid and valid reasons.
                                      > I write openly and without any reservations
                                      > that the writing on the wall about the coming of the Kingdomof Godat hand is clearly visible due to the toppling down of the world’s social, secular,
                                      > economic, religious and ecological order and even by human bombs who immolate
                                      > themselves. As the modern man is a moving sepulcher in the technological
                                      > graveyard of the globe, all these spontaneous and rapid changes are taking
                                      > place in an alarming rate. If we don’t open our eyes and read the signs that
                                      > are detrimentally affecting the humanity and the virginity of the church, we
                                      > are not different from the religious orders of the Christ’s first coming. The
                                      > social, secular and climatic changes that signal for a cataclysmic world disorder
                                      > is the prologue for a religious catastrophe that uproot the sanctity of the
                                      > church, the main concern for Jesus to come down and gather the minority
                                      > faithful from the high-tech wasteland of this world. When the only Bride is
                                      > succumbed to the seeming defeat by our desecration, the end is surely at hand.
                                      > It is in keeping with the discipline of any
                                      > traditional church that certain people are set apart for any special
                                      > ministerial duties. Matters of discipline are there for some purpose. Ignoring
                                      > such matters of discipline leads to the downfall of organizations, whether they
                                      > are religious, social or political, and we see examples of that all around us
                                      > Refer to Galatians 3:26-28: “It is through
                                      > faith all of you are God's sons in union with Christ Jesus"...... God only
                                      > has sons, no daughters in Heaven, the reason for our Fathers to practice a
                                      > faith that is dear to the Triune God so far. Also learn a lesson that is
                                      > clearly prescribing the sonship that we receive in Heaven, Lk.20: 34-38.
                                      > Maternity is only for this world, and that role was given by God in Eden, Gen.3: 13-18. As this role cannot be exchanged to
                                      > man, women are to obey their husbands and raise noble and ideal children for
                                      > God.
                                      >  
                                      > Let me put in simple and
                                      > straightforward language now. Adam, the priest, prophet and king, was given
                                      > with the commandment of not to eat from the forbidden fruit, when Eve only was
                                      > in the loin of Adam. As the first commandment to the human race was given only
                                      > to Adam, it was his duty to obey the Creator’s commandment. Eve was created
                                      > only from Adam and still remained as the son of God till she ate and gave the
                                      > fruit to Adam to gulp. Hence he is the direct representative of God, and she
                                      > the representative’s representative. He for God and she for God in him formula,
                                      > Gen.2: 18, was the aim of the creation of Eve. The seduction of Adam to eat the
                                      > fruit that opened their nakedness prompted Eve to accuse serpent again was only
                                      > for protection of her stand. Nobody took or shared the blame, but the
                                      > accusation that followed by them doesn’t absolve them from their guilt.
                                      > If nakedness was the result
                                      > of the forbidden fruit, Gen.2: 25, 3: 7, the product of the first commandment,
                                      > sex or sensuality, became the primary cause for the grabbing the fruit from the
                                      > Tree of Life, Holy Liturgy, at the end of the time. Therefore, sex became the
                                      > forbidden fruit in the sacrificial venue after the fall, the reason for not
                                      > seeing any girls of Adam for the administration of the sacrifice.  The serpent’s conversation with Eve, Gen.3:
                                      > 1-7, certainly is directly applicable here. The fruit is good to look, become
                                      > wise, not die etc is the seducing promises here by the laity to the
                                      > ecclesiastical hierarchy. The attraction towards the tree of Life neutralized
                                      > the sexual impulses now for snatching the fruit of Life. When the woman touch
                                      > this fruit of Life in Orthodox churches, she and her supporters will come to
                                      > know the nakedness that either we are in Paradiseor in hell, means the end of the time.
                                      >  
                                      > No place for woman in any
                                      > religious arena because it is the forbidden fruit. She being the weaker vessel,
                                      > 1.Pet, she has to follow man, not lead man because both are sons of God in
                                      > Heaven, not here in this plane as long as the role of maternity remains with
                                      > woman. Because Eve was created from man, woman also belongs to the clan of man,
                                      > as Jesus said that “the sons of this age marry, and are given in marriage”,
                                      > Lk.20: 34. The fallen man and woman therefore strive to get back to this
                                      > celestial manhood, Eph.4: 13, by carrying the duplicate responsibility of
                                      > complementing function of wedded life, thereby we attain the angelic manhood of
                                      > the sons of resurrection, Lk.20: 36. Our Fathers knew all these fragments of
                                      > chaste faith by shedding their own blood; but we forcibly try to change this
                                      > pure Bride as the bride of the prince of perdition, but the Groom will descend
                                      > like a thief in the night to collect her from the tentacles of the final
                                      > cataclysm.
                                      > As OT reading is a part of
                                      > the liturgy, woman shouldn’t take part in it, nor should she dare to get into
                                      > the sanctuary as altar assistants or celebrants in the Orthodox Church. Since
                                      > the current of the time is totally against  continuing this pure virgin here, all these defilements will happen, but
                                      > you and I shouldn’t countersign this filth which close our inner eye, the seat
                                      > of God’s spirit in us.
                                      >  
                                      > E.S.John, Australia
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Chris M
                                      depends on who you ask. Some say the Sons of God in the early chapters of Genesis were angels and impregnated women. But we re told in other parts that
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Jan 4, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        depends on who you ask. Some say the "Sons of God" in the early chapters of Genesis were angels and impregnated women. But we're told in other parts that angels don't procreate. I favor the latter view.


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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