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Re: Marthoma Protestants & Nazranis

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  • john_jacob_email
    Dear MOSC Moderator Mr. Itoop, While I do not think that this message of mine will ever get published in the MOSC group, I still must say that I am shocked to
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 31, 2010
      Dear MOSC Moderator Mr. Itoop,

      While I do not think that this message of mine will ever get published in the MOSC group, I still must say that I am shocked to notice such a message coming from the Moderator of the MOSC group - a message that terms fellow-christians as 'junk'!

      Oh dear! How woefully wrong one is to consider oneself better than the 'junk' in a religious group that is, of all else, supposedly Christian in nature!

      Yours in Christ!

      John Jacob
      Kuwait

      ----------------------------------------------------------------
      Dear Members,
      I want to make a comment on this issue. From my childhood I have heard that
      MarThoma is a SAHODAREY sabha something which is totally false in terms of faith
      but totally true in terms of culture and origins.

      I have seen some peculiar tendencies in Marthomites and orthodox .

      1. Marthomites never spend on their daughters education when compared to sons.

      2. Marthomites try to get their daughters cheaply married to Orthodox boys who
      are less educated when compared to orthodox girls or Marthomite boys.

      3. Only highly qualified girls from our side make it into sahaodrey sabha. While
      the junk from their church floods our church and gets mixed with our own
      orthodox junk.

      4. Orthodox girls and boys are not marrying orthodox people as first choice but
      last. This is making our church very weak.

      5. I hope someone will comment and help a social issue which also is signaling
      to spiritual decay of orthodoxy in our churches.


      Itoop Korah
      MOSC Moderator
    • alice john
      Dear Mr.Charles Jameyson, Two persons looked from the prison bars, one saw the mud, the other saw the galaxy of stars. Bible is a microcosm of the macrocosm
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 1, 2010
        Dear Mr.Charles Jameyson,
        "Two persons looked from the prison bars, one saw the mud, the other saw the
        galaxy of stars." Bible is a microcosm of the macrocosm that has no boundary or
        border. you try stick to the lifeless technicalities of the bible; understand
        that it is happening everyday till this microcosm is wrapped up one day. These
        bible technicalities are the products from a misconstrued brain that is being
        indoctrinated into every robot followers. I wonder the reason for the idea of
        the rapture which is the catch word of Pentecostals is not mentioned in your
        message. You may not have used it as a mask to cover up your real colour. Such
        technicalities have blindfolded the clergy during the Lord's birth and lifetime;
        the same is the case now. The Bible revelations have different strands and
        layers that are not visible to a naked eye. What happened before also is
        repeated in His 2nd coming because he comes like a thief just to put the dust in
        the eyes of Satan, the reason for the bible to be shrouded by hidden secrets.
        Read my books if you get them for more details.

        E.S.John, Australia





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • RinuSam
        Dear Moderators/MOSC elder Although myself and my family members are orthodox,the issue is that with socio-economic surroundings/background of many orthodox
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 2, 2010
          Dear Moderators/MOSC elder
          Although myself and my family members are orthodox,the issue is that with socio-economic surroundings/background of many orthodox family their daughters are being forced to be married by Marthomites.Some orthodox familiies they only look at/consider, Finance/employment status of Boys/bridegroom whereby they even allow their daughters to be married by C.S.I and other protastant Christians
          Marthomites, they give same/equal preference in education of their children either boy or Girl.This what myself experienced in my life.
          However with orthodox faith alone,we cannot survive in this world/ earth as economic situation of many of our familieas are totally indifferent and not the same.
          How ever I would like to draw your attention on the following Bible verses
          Mathew 7:1-2 "Do not judge others,so that God will not judge you in the same way as you judge others"
          And he(God) will apply the same rules you apply others!
          Mathew 9:13 "I have not come to call the righteous people, but sinners/outcasts"
          mathew 12:37 "Your words will be used to judge you - to decalre you either innocent or guilty"
          Mathew 19:30 "but many who are first now,will be last;and many who are last now will be first"
          Mathew 20:16 "Those who are last will be first,and those who are first will be last"
          Mathew 21:31"The tax collectors and prostitutes are going into Kingdom ahead of you"
          Mathew 22:14"Many are invited, but few are chosen"

          I would suggest we totally leave this matter of Marthoma Protastants&Nazranis from dicussion by now.

          Rinu Sam
          --- In MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com, "moscelder" <itkorah@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear Members,
          > I want to make a comment on this issue. From my childhood I have heard that MarThoma is a SAHODAREY sabha something which is totally false in terms of faith but totally true in terms of culture and origins.
          >
          > I have seen some peculiar tendencies in Marthomites and orthodox .
          >
          > 1. Marthomites never spend on their daughters education when compared to sons.
          >
          > 2. Marthomites try to get their daughters cheaply married to Orthodox boys who are less educated when compared to orthodox girls or Marthomite boys.
          >
          > 3. Only highly qualified girls from our side make it into sahaodrey sabha. While the junk from their church floods our church and gets mixed with our own orthodox junk.
          >
          > 4. Orthodox girls and boys are not marrying orthodox people as first choice but last. This is making our church very weak.
          >
          > 5. I hope someone will comment and help a social issue which also is signaling to spiritual decay of orthodoxy in our churches.
          >
          >
          > Itoop Korah
          > MOSC Moderator
          >
        • Charles Jemeyson
          Hello E.S.John, Australia boy. I am not sure why you responded to my email the way you did. I told you truth and your response is very difficult to
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 2, 2010
            Hello E.S.John, Australia boy.



            I am not sure why you responded to my email the way you did. I told you
            truth and your response is very difficult to understand. You even brought up
            "Pentecostals and rapture."

            I didn't mention Pentecostals nor did I mention the false doctrine of
            rapture in my message to you, yet, you brought it up. What you did is what
            Pentecostals do and that is they bring up something else that has NOTHING to
            do with the subject. In Texas, we call that "chasing rabbits."

            You had nothing to say that was intelligent so you shout "FIRE" and try to
            take attention away from truth.



            What I see in your writing is that you are a "premillennialist.' You hold
            the premillennial doctrines.

            Your doctrine(s) are very simple and easy to refute with the Word of our
            Lord.

            I haven't read your book, but over the years (since the late 60's) I've read
            plenty of premillennial books and most are the same.



            By the way, the Pentecostals you seem to run down are also premillennial
            like you. LOL



            Study His Word more my friend. You are WAY off in you study of the Book of
            Revelation.



            By the way, I am not Pentecostal, nor Protestant, nor Jehovah Witness, nor
            Roman Catholic, nor XXX, nor YYYY, etc. etc. I am a Christian.



            Your servant in Messiah, Jesus the Christ,

            Charles Jemeyson

            cjemeyson@...

            San Antonio, Texas





            _____

            From: MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of alice
            john
            Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 6:11 PM
            To: MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [ MOSC ] RE: Naveekaranam





            Dear Mr.Charles Jameyson,
            "Two persons looked from the prison bars, one saw the mud, the other saw the

            galaxy of stars." Bible is a microcosm of the macrocosm that has no boundary
            or
            border. you try stick to the lifeless technicalities of the bible;
            understand
            that it is happening everyday till this microcosm is wrapped up one day.
            These
            bible technicalities are the products from a misconstrued brain that is
            being
            indoctrinated into every robot followers. I wonder the reason for the idea
            of
            the rapture which is the catch word of Pentecostals is not mentioned in your

            message. You may not have used it as a mask to cover up your real colour.
            Such
            technicalities have blindfolded the clergy during the Lord's birth and
            lifetime;
            the same is the case now. The Bible revelations have different strands and
            layers that are not visible to a naked eye. What happened before also is
            repeated in His 2nd coming because he comes like a thief just to put the
            dust in
            the eyes of Satan, the reason for the bible to be shrouded by hidden
            secrets.
            Read my books if you get them for more details.

            E.S.John, Australia

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • alice john
            Hai, Texas Christian boy, There are not many Christians as you claim these days; all are puppets of militant denominations and cults, just as everyone is a toy
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 3, 2010
              Hai,
              Texas Christian boy,
              There are not many Christians as you claim these days; all are puppets of
              militant denominations and cults, just as everyone is a toy of political
              parties, clubs and associations. You think that you only know the truth because
              of the parroting what extreme cult members say are only the truths. Everybody
              claims that he is a follower of Christ but engage in militant theology that is
              contrary to the truth that set you free. Some cult or denominational heads
              preach some perverted teachings and many others thunder them out as gospel
              truths. What predicted by Daniel and happened 500 years before the birth of
              Christ is likely to be repeated in a similar way at the end of the world also. I
              didn't find any original thinking in your message that is only a duplicate of
              what others have dictated.


              If you claim to be a freelance messiah, that again is refutable because there
              are many loopholes in there. Those interpretations that you gave are stereotypes
              that make only make confusion or anarchy, the reason for mushrooming of cults
              and denominations. That is why I said that they are only the technicalities of
              biblical narratives, not the real spirit. The beast doesn't mean a big creature
              like whale or dragon. It means that the spirit of Antichrist come and haunt over
              a ruthless and man of false countenance in the last days. Just as Satan came as
              dragon to Eve, Beelzebub appear in a man in the same spirit at the end of days.
              The bible is full of anecdotes, parables, symbols, etc that are shrouded in
              mysteries.Your statements all resembled like the parroting of a pentecostal man;
              hence my conclusion. It sounded like a Protestant culture which thrust upon
              anything in what he is indoctrinated with. I don't jump up and down if you call
              me a pre-millennialist or a post millennialist. Take it easy fellow christian,
              don't show arrogance that can only exhibit unchristian hatred and enmity of a
              Christian cowboy culture. Calming down at critical junctures is better for a
              Christian idealist.

              E.S.John, Australia




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Charles Jemeyson
              Hello E. S. John: We really don t know how many Christians there are today, but I do know that all who have obeyed the gospel of Jesus Christ from the heart
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 4, 2010
                Hello E. S. John:



                We really don't know how many Christians there are today, but I do know that
                all who have obeyed the gospel of Jesus Christ from the heart through faith
                have been "made" a servant of righteousness (Christian) and have been set
                free from sin (Rom 6:17,18).



                There are over 38,000 denominations of people who "claim" to be "of Christ.
                Christ will come back some day and many (trillions upon trillions) will say
                to Him: Matt 7:22,23 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we
                not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy
                name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never
                knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."



                WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE WHO CLAIM TO BE "OF CHRIST?" These are the ones who
                have not obeyed the gospel from the heart.

                ,

                Paul (Jesus said it also) said, ".if you died WITH Christ, then you will
                reign with Him." (Rom 6:8) (Read Romans 6:3-5) We can only TRUST through
                faith in the obedience of the gospel to reign with Him.



                Now to the rest of you email, you certainly made me laugh with your wording.
                I really won't get into all of it, but I am a cowboy. I have raised cattle
                on a ranch, I wear boots. LOL

                I'm retired (2005) from IBM as a field engineer. (I've worked on all kinds
                of computers, from the hand held to very large ones.) I spent my military
                time as a U.S. Marine. (Semper Fi !)



                No, I'm definitely not PENTECOSTAL. I don't believe that God has given us
                the "signs of an apostle" for today. There are no prophets nor apostles
                today. We have the Bible with the full revelation for mankind in it. Like
                I told you in another email, I am a Christian; I'm not Protestant, nor
                Catholic, nor Jehovah Witness, not XXX or XXXX, or XXX, just a Christian. I
                meet and worship on the first day of the week with other Christians. Our
                assembly is made up of Christians. We are autonomous. We don't tell any
                other assembly what to teach or do and no one tells us what to teach or do.
                We rely ONLY on the Bible and Jesus Christ is our head.

                Now when I said "our assembly is made up of Christians" we all know there
                are always some who "claim" to have obeyed the gospel from the heart, but
                haven't. When one obeys the gospel from the heart, God adds them to the
                assembly (in heaven, Acts 2:47). The "heavenly assembly" has "all the
                saved" (righteous) from Adam to the present, but the local assembly (church,
                ekklesia) may or may not have all saved.



                I'm not sure what you mean by "freelance Messiah???" There is ONLY one and
                ONLY one Messiah. By the way, His Name is most likely Yeshua (some say
                Yahshua). I do read and write the Koine Greek and some Hebrew and there is
                NO "J" in either language.

                The "J" was most likely added (by Gentiles) when the King James Bible (1611)
                came out. I think in the 1600's the Germans called Him Gesus. I still
                call Him Jesus as that's what I've known since I was a young Christian. I
                think He accepts that.

                Some Mexicans call me Carlos, I don't mind that. Even you spelled my name
                Jameyson when it's Jemeyson, see, I don't mind that either. LOL



                Due to the fact you are premillennial, you need to study some things on the
                end times. (I'm not fussing at you). Study "anti-Christ" for starters. You
                will find that anyone against Christ is anti-Christ I know that you think
                there will be an individual that is the "anti-Christ", but that is where you
                have been deceived. When you study, "read out of" instead of reading "into
                of" the Word. Don't read your preconceived concepts "into" the scriptures.




                By the way, you called me a "Texas Christian boy." I wish I was a "boy"
                again. I would do it all over again and hopefully would do it better. (I'm
                70 yrs old) I wouldn't pick a different wife, I've got a jewel (her name is
                Crystal) for 48 years on the 31st of this month. (Although she might pick
                someone different, ha)



                You said you wouldn't "jump up and down" if I called you a premillennialist
                or post millennialist." Well I would not call you a "post millennialist" as
                you would be better off than a premill. The post mill theory has some truth
                than the pre-mill. You are just teaching what you've been taught. I know,
                I've been down this road a thousand times. I really don't hold anything
                against you so don't think I'm being "hatred" towards you. You are just in
                error and you need to turn from it by studying.



                With Christian Love,

                Your servant in Christ,

                Charles Jemeyson

                cjemeyson@...

                San Antonio, Texas









                _____

                From: MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of alice
                john
                Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 6:22 PM
                To: MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [ MOSC ] RE:Naveekaranam





                Hai,
                Texas Christian boy,
                There are not many Christians as you claim these days; all are puppets of
                militant denominations and cults, just as everyone is a toy of political
                parties, clubs and associations. You think that you only know the truth
                because
                of the parroting what extreme cult members say are only the truths.
                Everybody
                claims that he is a follower of Christ but engage in militant theology that
                is
                contrary to the truth that set you free. Some cult or denominational heads
                preach some perverted teachings and many others thunder them out as gospel
                truths. What predicted by Daniel and happened 500 years before the birth of
                Christ is likely to be repeated in a similar way at the end of the world
                also. I
                didn't find any original thinking in your message that is only a duplicate
                of
                what others have dictated.

                If you claim to be a freelance messiah, that again is refutable because
                there
                are many loopholes in there. Those interpretations that you gave are
                stereotypes
                that make only make confusion or anarchy, the reason for mushrooming of
                cults
                and denominations. That is why I said that they are only the technicalities
                of
                biblical narratives, not the real spirit. The beast doesn't mean a big
                creature
                like whale or dragon. It means that the spirit of Antichrist come and haunt
                over
                a ruthless and man of false countenance in the last days. Just as Satan came
                as
                dragon to Eve, Beelzebub appear in a man in the same spirit at the end of
                days.
                The bible is full of anecdotes, parables, symbols, etc that are shrouded in
                mysteries.Your statements all resembled like the parroting of a pentecostal
                man;
                hence my conclusion. It sounded like a Protestant culture which thrust upon
                anything in what he is indoctrinated with. I don't jump up and down if you
                call
                me a pre-millennialist or a post millennialist. Take it easy fellow
                christian,
                don't show arrogance that can only exhibit unchristian hatred and enmity of
                a
                Christian cowboy culture. Calming down at critical junctures is better for a

                Christian idealist.

                E.S.John, Australia

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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