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Communion with Roman Catholic Church

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  • Fr Jose Thomas
    Recently, we have seen the news the Syrian Patriarch H.H. Ignatius Zakka Iwas I has entered into communion with the Roman Catholic Church. Whether the Syrian
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 1, 2007
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      Recently, we have seen the news the Syrian Patriarch H.H. Ignatius Zakka
      Iwas I has entered into communion with the Roman Catholic Church.

      Whether the Syrian Patriarch H.H. Ignatius Zakka Iwas I has entered into
      communion with the Roman Catholic Church and Greek Orthodox Churches is
      not our business, I think. It is their internal affairs. If they have
      committed such a mistake, they have to give answer to the holy Fathers of
      the Church. It is their ignorance. Indeed, they have deviated from the
      Orthodoxy taught by St. Cyril of Alexandria and St. Severios of Antioch.
      May God forgive them.

      Today, we can think the possibilities for the communion with Roman
      Catholic Church and Greek Orthodox Churches. But there are many obstacles
      for the union, viz, Biblical, Theological and Christological,
      Ecclesiological and Canonical.

      The main issues:

      1. Both Roman Catholic Church and Greek (Byzantine) Orthodox Churches
      have accepted the Chalcedon formula of faith. But Oriental
      (non-Chalcedonians) Orthodox Churches do not accept it.

      2. Chalcedonians condemned Dioscorus of Alexandria and Severios of
      Antioch. The non-Chalcedonians condemned Pope Leo of Rome. How can the
      anathema pronounced on Dioscorus, Severios and Leo be removed? Are they
      ready to accept Dioscorus of Alexandria and Severios of Antioch as their
      Church Fathers?

      3. Who will responsible for the persecution upon the non-Chalcedonians?
      Many of the non-Chalcedonians received Islam due to the persecution. What
      is the remedy for the case of these apostates?

      4. Roman Catholic Church washed out the Christian community in the Middle
      East through Crusaders. Does it have any solution?

      5. Number of Universal Councils: Oriental Churches accept three as
      Universal Councils. But, for Greeks, the numbers of the Universal
      Councils are seven and Roman Catholic Church claims 21 as Universal. What
      about the decisions of these Councils?

      6. Supremacy of Pope: Biblically, Canonically and Ecclesiologicaly it is
      not acceptable.

      7. “Filioque” clause: Roman Catholic Church added the “filioque” clause
      to the Nicene Creed. Biblically, Theologically and Canonically it is
      wrong and unacceptable.

      8. Doctrine of Original Sin in the Roman Catholic Church

      9. Ecclesiology of the Roman Catholic Church

      10. Doctrine of Purgatory in the Roman Catholic Church

      11. Division of Sacraments and Sacramentals and its explanations of the
      Roman Catholic Church

      12. Teachings about Marriage and Confession in the Roman Catholic Church

      13. Teachings about Bible and Tradition of the Roman Catholic Church

      14. Sacramental theology and doctrine about the Holy Eucharist of the
      Roman Catholic Church

      15. Teachings about hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church

      16. Concept about faith and reason of the Roman Catholic Church

      17. Doctrine of Holy Trinity of the Roman Catholic Church

      18. Christology of the Roman Catholic Church and Greek Orthodox Churches

      19. Mariology of the Roman Catholic Church

      20. Sacrament of Confirmation in the Roman Catholic Church

      21. Sacrament of Extreme Unction in the Roman Catholic Church

      22. Veneration of Statues in the Roman Catholic Church

      These are the main issues between Oriental Orthodox Churches and
      Chalcedonians (Byzantine and Latins). However, the dialogues like
      Pro-Oriente may help to understand each other and lend the hand to
      minimize the issues.

      Church is a worshipping community. Holy Eucharist is the center and life
      of the Church. How can the Churches come together for the Holy Communion
      with out unity in faith?

      Poovathumkalachen


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Philip Oommen
      Dear Moderator/Poovathilachen Please explain on item 22 on worship of statues in RCC churches. What about your idol/staute/tomb/shrine worship in the orthodox
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 1, 2007
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        Dear Moderator/Poovathilachen

        Please explain on item 22 on worship of statues in RCC churches. What about your idol/staute/tomb/shrine worship in the orthodox churches. Why don't yo talk against it?
        Sincerely
        Philip

        Fr Jose Thomas <poovathumkalachen@...> wrote:
        Recently, we have seen the news the Syrian Patriarch H.H. Ignatius Zakka
        Iwas I has entered into communion with the Roman Catholic Church.

        Whether the Syrian Patriarch H.H. Ignatius Zakka Iwas I has entered into
        communion with the Roman Catholic Church and Greek Orthodox Churches is
        not our business, I think. It is their internal affairs. If they have
        committed such a mistake, they have to give answer to the holy Fathers of
        the Church. It is their ignorance. Indeed, they have deviated from the
        Orthodoxy taught by St. Cyril of Alexandria and St. Severios of Antioch.
        May God forgive them.

        Today, we can think the possibilities for the communion with Roman
        Catholic Church and Greek Orthodox Churches. But there are many obstacles
        for the union, viz, Biblical, Theological and Christological,
        Ecclesiological and Canonical.

        The main issues:

        1. Both Roman Catholic Church and Greek (Byzantine) Orthodox Churches
        have accepted the Chalcedon formula of faith. But Oriental
        (non-Chalcedonians) Orthodox Churches do not accept it.

        2. Chalcedonians condemned Dioscorus of Alexandria and Severios of
        Antioch. The non-Chalcedonians condemned Pope Leo of Rome. How can the
        anathema pronounced on Dioscorus, Severios and Leo be removed? Are they
        ready to accept Dioscorus of Alexandria and Severios of Antioch as their
        Church Fathers?

        3. Who will responsible for the persecution upon the non-Chalcedonians?
        Many of the non-Chalcedonians received Islam due to the persecution. What
        is the remedy for the case of these apostates?

        4. Roman Catholic Church washed out the Christian community in the Middle
        East through Crusaders. Does it have any solution?

        5. Number of Universal Councils: Oriental Churches accept three as
        Universal Councils. But, for Greeks, the numbers of the Universal
        Councils are seven and Roman Catholic Church claims 21 as Universal. What
        about the decisions of these Councils?

        6. Supremacy of Pope: Biblically, Canonically and Ecclesiologicaly it is
        not acceptable.

        7. “Filioque” clause: Roman Catholic Church added the “filioque” clause
        to the Nicene Creed. Biblically, Theologically and Canonically it is
        wrong and unacceptable.

        8. Doctrine of Original Sin in the Roman Catholic Church

        9. Ecclesiology of the Roman Catholic Church

        10. Doctrine of Purgatory in the Roman Catholic Church

        11. Division of Sacraments and Sacramentals and its explanations of the
        Roman Catholic Church

        12. Teachings about Marriage and Confession in the Roman Catholic Church

        13. Teachings about Bible and Tradition of the Roman Catholic Church

        14. Sacramental theology and doctrine about the Holy Eucharist of the
        Roman Catholic Church

        15. Teachings about hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church

        16. Concept about faith and reason of the Roman Catholic Church

        17. Doctrine of Holy Trinity of the Roman Catholic Church

        18. Christology of the Roman Catholic Church and Greek Orthodox Churches

        19. Mariology of the Roman Catholic Church

        20. Sacrament of Confirmation in the Roman Catholic Church

        21. Sacrament of Extreme Unction in the Roman Catholic Church

        22. Veneration of Statues in the Roman Catholic Church

        These are the main issues between Oriental Orthodox Churches and
        Chalcedonians (Byzantine and Latins). However, the dialogues like
        Pro-Oriente may help to understand each other and lend the hand to
        minimize the issues.

        Church is a worshipping community. Holy Eucharist is the center and life
        of the Church. How can the Churches come together for the Holy Communion
        with out unity in faith?

        Poovathumkalachen

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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      • padanayakan
        I am so happy to see the authentic writings of Respected Poovathikal Jose Achen. The Syrians were traditional and now it is not following the traditions or
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 2, 2007
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          I am so happy to see the authentic writings of Respected Poovathikal
          Jose Achen.

          The Syrians were traditional and now it is not following the
          traditions or faith and the teachings of the Orthodox Church.
          Instead of following the true faith and worship they are now
          following the political tacts to strengthen them as a Group same as
          a political party. And it is verly similar to the L.D.F. and U.D.F
          making their allies.

          The detailed description about the difference between the Orthodox
          and the catholics is very helpful for our people.

          Charly V. Padanilam, Houston, TX.



          --- In MalankaraOrthodoxSyrianChristian@yahoogroups.com, "Fr Jose
          Thomas" <poovathumkalachen@...> wrote:
          >
          > Recently, we have seen the news the Syrian Patriarch H.H. Ignatius
          Zakka
          > Iwas I has entered into communion with the Roman Catholic Church.
          >
          > Whether the Syrian Patriarch H.H. Ignatius Zakka Iwas I has
          entered into
          > communion with the Roman Catholic Church and Greek Orthodox
          Churches is
          > not our business, I think. It is their internal affairs. If they
          have
          > committed such a mistake, they have to give answer to the holy
          Fathers of
          > the Church. It is their ignorance. Indeed, they have deviated from
          the
          > Orthodoxy taught by St. Cyril of Alexandria and St. Severios of
          Antioch.
          > May God forgive them.
          >
          > Today, we can think the possibilities for the communion with Roman
          > Catholic Church and Greek Orthodox Churches. But there are many
          obstacles
          > for the union, viz, Biblical, Theological and Christological,
          > Ecclesiological and Canonical.
          >
          > The main issues:
          >
          > 1. Both Roman Catholic Church and Greek (Byzantine) Orthodox
          Churches
          > have accepted the Chalcedon formula of faith. But Oriental
          > (non-Chalcedonians) Orthodox Churches do not accept it.
          >
          > 2. Chalcedonians condemned Dioscorus of Alexandria and Severios of
          > Antioch. The non-Chalcedonians condemned Pope Leo of Rome. How can
          the
          > anathema pronounced on Dioscorus, Severios and Leo be removed? Are
          they
          > ready to accept Dioscorus of Alexandria and Severios of Antioch as
          their
          > Church Fathers?
          >
          > 3. Who will responsible for the persecution upon the non-
          Chalcedonians?
          > Many of the non-Chalcedonians received Islam due to the
          persecution. What
          > is the remedy for the case of these apostates?
          >
          > 4. Roman Catholic Church washed out the Christian community in the
          Middle
          > East through Crusaders. Does it have any solution?
          >
          > 5. Number of Universal Councils: Oriental Churches accept three as
          > Universal Councils. But, for Greeks, the numbers of the Universal
          > Councils are seven and Roman Catholic Church claims 21 as
          Universal. What
          > about the decisions of these Councils?
          >
          > 6. Supremacy of Pope: Biblically, Canonically and Ecclesiologicaly
          it is
          > not acceptable.
          >
          > 7. "Filioque" clause: Roman Catholic Church added the "filioque"
          clause
          > to the Nicene Creed. Biblically, Theologically and Canonically it
          is
          > wrong and unacceptable.
          >
          > 8. Doctrine of Original Sin in the Roman Catholic Church
          >
          > 9. Ecclesiology of the Roman Catholic Church
          >
          > 10. Doctrine of Purgatory in the Roman Catholic Church
          >
          > 11. Division of Sacraments and Sacramentals and its explanations
          of the
          > Roman Catholic Church
          >
          > 12. Teachings about Marriage and Confession in the Roman Catholic
          Church
          >
          > 13. Teachings about Bible and Tradition of the Roman Catholic
          Church
          >
          > 14. Sacramental theology and doctrine about the Holy Eucharist of
          the
          > Roman Catholic Church
          >
          > 15. Teachings about hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church
          >
          > 16. Concept about faith and reason of the Roman Catholic Church
          >
          > 17. Doctrine of Holy Trinity of the Roman Catholic Church
          >
          > 18. Christology of the Roman Catholic Church and Greek Orthodox
          Churches
          >
          > 19. Mariology of the Roman Catholic Church
          >
          > 20. Sacrament of Confirmation in the Roman Catholic Church
          >
          > 21. Sacrament of Extreme Unction in the Roman Catholic Church
          >
          > 22. Veneration of Statues in the Roman Catholic Church
          >
          > These are the main issues between Oriental Orthodox Churches and
          > Chalcedonians (Byzantine and Latins). However, the dialogues like
          > Pro-Oriente may help to understand each other and lend the hand to
          > minimize the issues.
          >
          > Church is a worshipping community. Holy Eucharist is the center
          and life
          > of the Church. How can the Churches come together for the Holy
          Communion
          > with out unity in faith?
          >
          > Poovathumkalachen
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • moscelder
          Phillip as an ex- orthodox members you are well aware that there are no idols in any of our churches. We do have madhyastha prarthana in all churches. This is
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 5, 2007
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            Phillip as an ex- orthodox members you are well aware that there are
            no idols in any of our churches. We do have madhyastha prarthana in
            all churches. This is because our church is a communion of both living
            and departed. We also believe that the holy saints are in presence of
            God and they interceed for us.

            Protestants have very little faith in of their pastors while alive
            and zero faith in their availability in Gods presence after they are
            deceased.

            So its a matter of faith. It is also written the just shall live by
            faith.

            Spare us with your debates for His sake.

            Itoop
          • Fr Jose Thomas
            Mr. Philip Oommen, I explained the faith, practices of Malankara Orthodox Church several times, and gave answers to your questions and clarifications to your
            Message 5 of 5 , Feb 6, 2007
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              Mr. Philip Oommen,
              I explained the faith, practices of Malankara Orthodox Church several times, and gave answers to your questions and clarifications to your doubts in MOSC. Being a Pentecostal pastor, you are trying to manipulate the forum. In addition, your doubts are not genuine and you do not deserve reply for the doubts. Therefore, I don’t like to repeat everything.
              Poovathumkalachen

              Fr Jose Thomas Poovathumkal
              St Frumentius Theological College
              Post Box 1444, Makalle, Tigray, Ethiopia.
              Ph: +251 344 400311 (Res)+251 914 720271 (Mob)
              Mulakulam North, Piravom - 686664,Kerala, India.
              Ph: +91 9447024355
              E-Mail: josachen@...



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