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  • Sonya Harway
    While out walking with my dog this afternoon, I was seriously harassed by a group of young kids at 10th and Hamlin. They were probably 14 or 15 years old and
    Message 1 of 20 , Aug 26 3:16 PM
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      While out walking with my dog this afternoon, I was seriously harassed by a group of
      young kids at 10th and Hamlin. They were probably 14 or 15 years old and used some
      absolutely disgusting language towards me, including lewd and sexual remarks. I
      unfortunately did not have my cell phone on me at the time, but when I returned home
      just before 4pm, I called 311 to report the harassment. The dispatcher asked me if I'd like
      to speak to an officer, and based on the seriousness of this particular incident, I said yes.
      She took my name, address, and phone number and told me the next officers would
      respond to my house. The dispatcher started wrapping up the call without taking a
      description of the kids involved, so I asked her if she needed a description. She said no,
      because I could give the description to the officers when they arrived. At 4:23 I saw two
      officers cruise the alley behind my house, where they apprehended two men, at least one
      of whom was drinking alcohol. I assumed they were coming to my house next, but
      apparently these officers were not the ones dispatched to my house.

      About 15 minutes ago (around 6pm), a police dispatcher called my home phone and asked
      for my correct address. I told her at this point not to bother, as it's been over two hours
      since the incident and almost that long since my call, and all odds are that those kids are
      not still there. I'm continuously frustrated with slowness of 311 responses, but this seems
      ridiculous to me. Why even bother taking a report or making the pretenses of sending
      officers? I don't want to waste officers' time, which is why I told them not to bother this
      late in the game, but I do want my legitimate complaints to be dealt with in a timely
      fashion. What can be done to improve response time? Should I make a point of telling
      dispatchers it is urgent? This is not the only time 5D officers have failed to show up at my
      house when I have requested them.

      -Sonya Harway
      (10th and Douglas)
    • Scott Shappell
      Can you give us more information about this? I heard from a neighbor that this person was shot over 20 times. Is this also another AK47 shooting? Is it
      Message 2 of 20 , Aug 28 5:03 AM
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        Can you give us more information about this? I heard from a neighbor that
        this person was shot over 20 times. Is this also another AK47 shooting? Is
        it related to the 'motorbike' shootings of a few weeks ago?

        PSA 501
        8/25/2005 1:35:00 AM Hours
        HOMICIDE - Gun
        1400 Block 1ST ST NW
        CCN #05114594
        R1 REPORTS THAT UPON ARRIVAL AT THE LISTED LOCATION C1 WAS OBSERVED LYING ON
        THE SIDE WALK SUFFERING FROM MULTIPLE GUNSHOT WOUNDS TO THE CHEST, ABDOMEN,
        AND HEAD AREA. C1 WAS TRANSPORTED TO MEDSTAR BY DCFD MEDIC 6 WHERE HE WAS
        PRONOUNCED DEAD.
        ------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Scott Shappell
        www.truxtoncircle.org

        _________________________________________________________________
        Don�t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
        http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
      • terri_west_of_tracks
        Friends, I can understand the distress of Ms. Harway s experience. But, accounts like this on this listserv bring to mind the Emmett Till incidence of the
        Message 3 of 20 , Aug 28 5:08 PM
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          Friends,

          I can understand the distress of Ms. Harway's experience. But,
          accounts like this on this listserv bring to mind the Emmett Till
          incidence of the 1950's. A fourteen year old boy visiting relatives in
          Missippi who made a remark to a store owner's wife upon the urging of
          some friends who wanted Emmett to "talk" to this woman. It later
          resulted in his lynching and what some may call the start of the civil
          rights movement.

          I just hope these "complaints" can be kept with the police and not
          aired on listservs like this, where it might incite racial actions.

          Thanks,

          Terri on 7th



          --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "Sonya Harway" <25harway@c...> wrote:
          > While out walking with my dog this afternoon, I was seriously
          harassed by a group of
          > young kids at 10th and Hamlin. They were probably 14 or 15 years old
          and used some
          > absolutely disgusting language towards me, including lewd and sexual
          remarks. I
          > unfortunately did not have my cell phone on me at the time, but when
          I returned home
          > just before 4pm, I called 311 to report the harassment. The
          dispatcher asked me if I'd like
          > to speak to an officer, and based on the seriousness of this
          particular incident, I said yes.
          > She took my name, address, and phone number and told me the next
          officers would
          > respond to my house. The dispatcher started wrapping up the call
          without taking a
          > description of the kids involved, so I asked her if she needed a
          description. She said no,
          > because I could give the description to the officers when they
          arrived. At 4:23 I saw two
          > officers cruise the alley behind my house, where they apprehended
          two men, at least one
          > of whom was drinking alcohol. I assumed they were coming to my house
          next, but
          > apparently these officers were not the ones dispatched to my house.
          >
          > About 15 minutes ago (around 6pm), a police dispatcher called my
          home phone and asked
          > for my correct address. I told her at this point not to bother, as
          it's been over two hours
          > since the incident and almost that long since my call, and all odds
          are that those kids are
          > not still there. I'm continuously frustrated with slowness of 311
          responses, but this seems
          > ridiculous to me. Why even bother taking a report or making the
          pretenses of sending
          > officers? I don't want to waste officers' time, which is why I told
          them not to bother this
          > late in the game, but I do want my legitimate complaints to be dealt
          with in a timely
          > fashion. What can be done to improve response time? Should I make a
          point of telling
          > dispatchers it is urgent? This is not the only time 5D officers have
          failed to show up at my
          > house when I have requested them.
          >
          > -Sonya Harway
          > (10th and Douglas)
        • Craig, Donald (MPD)
          The person was not shot over twenty times. It was not the AK 47 we had a few eeks ago and not realated to the motorbike. There was an arguement between this
          Message 4 of 20 , Aug 29 11:47 AM
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            The person was not shot over twenty times. It was not the AK 47 we had a few eeks ago and not realated to the motorbike. There was an arguement between this man and somem others and they took it to the extreme. If anyone has any informatin about this please e-mail me directly. Any help we can get from the residents is greatly appreciated.

            Lt. Craig

            -----Original Message-----
            From: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Scott Shappell
            Sent: Sun 8/28/2005 8:03 AM
            To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [MPD-5D] More shootings

            Can you give us more information about this? I heard from a neighbor that
            this person was shot over 20 times. Is this also another AK47 shooting? Is
            it related to the 'motorbike' shootings of a few weeks ago?

            PSA 501
            8/25/2005 1:35:00 AM Hours
            HOMICIDE - Gun
            1400 Block 1ST ST NW
            CCN #05114594
            R1 REPORTS THAT UPON ARRIVAL AT THE LISTED LOCATION C1 WAS OBSERVED LYING ON
            THE SIDE WALK SUFFERING FROM MULTIPLE GUNSHOT WOUNDS TO THE CHEST, ABDOMEN,
            AND HEAD AREA. C1 WAS TRANSPORTED TO MEDSTAR BY DCFD MEDIC 6 WHERE HE WAS
            PRONOUNCED DEAD.
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Scott Shappell
            www.truxtoncircle.org

            _________________________________________________________________
            Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
            http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/





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          • erheramb
            I m confused as to how this would relate to any type of race issues since Ms. Harway neither stated the harassers race or her own. Personally, I feel this has
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 29 11:58 AM
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              I'm confused as to how this would relate to any type of race issues
              since Ms. Harway neither stated the harassers' race or her own.
              Personally, I feel this has nothing to do with race but with a
              person walking down the street being verbally harassed to the point
              where the person may feel unsafe or, at least, extrememly
              uncomfortable and feels the police need to intervene with a group of
              adolescents. Verbal harassment can feel threatening and I would not
              downplay an incident where a person is feeling uncomfortable to the
              point of police intervention,
              Erin
              10th
              --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "terri_west_of_tracks"
              <terri_west_of_tracks@y...> wrote:
              > Friends,
              >
              > I can understand the distress of Ms. Harway's experience. But,
              > accounts like this on this listserv bring to mind the Emmett Till
              > incidence of the 1950's. A fourteen year old boy visiting
              relatives in
              > Missippi who made a remark to a store owner's wife upon the urging
              of
              > some friends who wanted Emmett to "talk" to this woman. It later
              > resulted in his lynching and what some may call the start of the
              civil
              > rights movement.
              >
              > I just hope these "complaints" can be kept with the police and not
              > aired on listservs like this, where it might incite racial actions.
              >
              > Thanks,
              >
              > Terri on 7th
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "Sonya Harway" <25harway@c...>
              wrote:
              > > While out walking with my dog this afternoon, I was seriously
              > harassed by a group of
              > > young kids at 10th and Hamlin. They were probably 14 or 15 years
              old
              > and used some
              > > absolutely disgusting language towards me, including lewd and
              sexual
              > remarks. I
              > > unfortunately did not have my cell phone on me at the time, but
              when
              > I returned home
              > > just before 4pm, I called 311 to report the harassment. The
              > dispatcher asked me if I'd like
              > > to speak to an officer, and based on the seriousness of this
              > particular incident, I said yes.
              > > She took my name, address, and phone number and told me the next
              > officers would
              > > respond to my house. The dispatcher started wrapping up the call
              > without taking a
              > > description of the kids involved, so I asked her if she needed a
              > description. She said no,
              > > because I could give the description to the officers when they
              > arrived. At 4:23 I saw two
              > > officers cruise the alley behind my house, where they apprehended
              > two men, at least one
              > > of whom was drinking alcohol. I assumed they were coming to my
              house
              > next, but
              > > apparently these officers were not the ones dispatched to my
              house.
              > >
              > > About 15 minutes ago (around 6pm), a police dispatcher called my
              > home phone and asked
              > > for my correct address. I told her at this point not to bother,
              as
              > it's been over two hours
              > > since the incident and almost that long since my call, and all
              odds
              > are that those kids are
              > > not still there. I'm continuously frustrated with slowness of 311
              > responses, but this seems
              > > ridiculous to me. Why even bother taking a report or making the
              > pretenses of sending
              > > officers? I don't want to waste officers' time, which is why I
              told
              > them not to bother this
              > > late in the game, but I do want my legitimate complaints to be
              dealt
              > with in a timely
              > > fashion. What can be done to improve response time? Should I
              make a
              > point of telling
              > > dispatchers it is urgent? This is not the only time 5D officers
              have
              > failed to show up at my
              > > house when I have requested them.
              > >
              > > -Sonya Harway
              > > (10th and Douglas)
            • unitblockdc
              To me it brings to mind boys who weren t raised with a respect for others, and who feel that it is fine to itimidate a solitary woman while in a group. It
              Message 6 of 20 , Aug 29 8:17 PM
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                To me it brings to mind boys who weren't raised with a respect for
                others, and who feel that it is fine to itimidate a solitary woman
                while in a group. It brings to mind victimising the offenders and
                ignoring the concerns of citizens, stripping them of hope for resolution.

                It does not bring to mind vigilantism of a half century ago. it does
                not bring to mind racial actions. it brings to mind the effectiveness
                of our 311 system and the public's faith in the police.








                --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "terri_west_of_tracks"
                <terri_west_of_tracks@y...> wrote:
                > Friends,
                >
                > I can understand the distress of Ms. Harway's experience. But,
                > accounts like this on this listserv bring to mind the Emmett Till
                > incidence of the 1950's. A fourteen year old boy visiting relatives in
                > Missippi who made a remark to a store owner's wife upon the urging of
                > some friends who wanted Emmett to "talk" to this woman. It later
                > resulted in his lynching and what some may call the start of the civil
                > rights movement.
                >
                > I just hope these "complaints" can be kept with the police and not
                > aired on listservs like this, where it might incite racial actions.
                >
                > Thanks,
                >
                > Terri on 7th
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "Sonya Harway" <25harway@c...> wrote:
                > > While out walking with my dog this afternoon, I was seriously
                > harassed by a group of
                > > young kids at 10th and Hamlin. They were probably 14 or 15 years old
                > and used some
                > > absolutely disgusting language towards me, including lewd and sexual
                > remarks. I
                > > unfortunately did not have my cell phone on me at the time, but when
                > I returned home
                > > just before 4pm, I called 311 to report the harassment. The
                > dispatcher asked me if I'd like
                > > to speak to an officer, and based on the seriousness of this
                > particular incident, I said yes.
                > > She took my name, address, and phone number and told me the next
                > officers would
                > > respond to my house. The dispatcher started wrapping up the call
                > without taking a
                > > description of the kids involved, so I asked her if she needed a
                > description. She said no,
                > > because I could give the description to the officers when they
                > arrived. At 4:23 I saw two
                > > officers cruise the alley behind my house, where they apprehended
                > two men, at least one
                > > of whom was drinking alcohol. I assumed they were coming to my house
                > next, but
                > > apparently these officers were not the ones dispatched to my house.
                > >
                > > About 15 minutes ago (around 6pm), a police dispatcher called my
                > home phone and asked
                > > for my correct address. I told her at this point not to bother, as
                > it's been over two hours
                > > since the incident and almost that long since my call, and all odds
                > are that those kids are
                > > not still there. I'm continuously frustrated with slowness of 311
                > responses, but this seems
                > > ridiculous to me. Why even bother taking a report or making the
                > pretenses of sending
                > > officers? I don't want to waste officers' time, which is why I told
                > them not to bother this
                > > late in the game, but I do want my legitimate complaints to be dealt
                > with in a timely
                > > fashion. What can be done to improve response time? Should I make a
                > point of telling
                > > dispatchers it is urgent? This is not the only time 5D officers have
                > failed to show up at my
                > > house when I have requested them.
                > >
                > > -Sonya Harway
                > > (10th and Douglas)
              • terri_west_of_tracks
                Friends, The racial/sexual/gender implications were well brought at the ANC5A meeting in July at the Slowe School. One woman in the 10th Street area told of
                Message 7 of 20 , Aug 30 9:35 AM
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                  Friends,

                  The racial/sexual/gender implications were well brought at the ANC5A
                  meeting in July at the Slowe School. One woman in the 10th Street
                  area told of how police are stopping anyone around 10 street because
                  of the way they look. Her hair is cut very short such that she could
                  be confused for a man. She was stopped by the police because of this.
                  Others talked about police mistaking their block as a problem area
                  when the concern (a disruptive party) was one or two blocks away.

                  We also don't know how Ms. Harway was dressed. This could have
                  contributed to the comments made. Prostitution is an issue in this
                  area. African american men had been known to utter lewd remarks to
                  women of the same race. These boys may have been reflecting that kind
                  of upbringing.

                  Sincerely,

                  Terri on 7th


                  --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "erheramb" <erheramb@y...> wrote:
                  > I'm confused as to how this would relate to any type of race issues
                  > since Ms. Harway neither stated the harassers' race or her own.
                  > Personally, I feel this has nothing to do with race but with a
                  > person walking down the street being verbally harassed to the point
                  > where the person may feel unsafe or, at least, extrememly
                  > uncomfortable and feels the police need to intervene with a group
                  of
                  > adolescents. Verbal harassment can feel threatening and I would
                  not
                  > downplay an incident where a person is feeling uncomfortable to the
                  > point of police intervention,
                  > Erin
                  > 10th
                  > --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "terri_west_of_tracks"
                  > <terri_west_of_tracks@y...> wrote:
                  > > Friends,
                  > >
                  > > I can understand the distress of Ms. Harway's experience. But,
                  > > accounts like this on this listserv bring to mind the Emmett Till
                  > > incidence of the 1950's. A fourteen year old boy visiting
                  > relatives in
                  > > Missippi who made a remark to a store owner's wife upon the
                  urging
                  > of
                  > > some friends who wanted Emmett to "talk" to this woman. It later
                  > > resulted in his lynching and what some may call the start of the
                  > civil
                  > > rights movement.
                  > >
                  > > I just hope these "complaints" can be kept with the police and not
                  > > aired on listservs like this, where it might incite racial
                  actions.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks,
                  > >
                  > > Terri on 7th
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "Sonya Harway" <25harway@c...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > > While out walking with my dog this afternoon, I was seriously
                  > > harassed by a group of
                  > > > young kids at 10th and Hamlin. They were probably 14 or 15
                  years
                  > old
                  > > and used some
                  > > > absolutely disgusting language towards me, including lewd and
                  > sexual
                  > > remarks. I
                  > > > unfortunately did not have my cell phone on me at the time, but
                  > when
                  > > I returned home
                  > > > just before 4pm, I called 311 to report the harassment. The
                  > > dispatcher asked me if I'd like
                  > > > to speak to an officer, and based on the seriousness of this
                  > > particular incident, I said yes.
                  > > > She took my name, address, and phone number and told me the next
                  > > officers would
                  > > > respond to my house. The dispatcher started wrapping up the call
                  > > without taking a
                  > > > description of the kids involved, so I asked her if she needed a
                  > > description. She said no,
                  > > > because I could give the description to the officers when they
                  > > arrived. At 4:23 I saw two
                  > > > officers cruise the alley behind my house, where they
                  apprehended
                  > > two men, at least one
                  > > > of whom was drinking alcohol. I assumed they were coming to my
                  > house
                  > > next, but
                  > > > apparently these officers were not the ones dispatched to my
                  > house.
                  > > >
                  > > > About 15 minutes ago (around 6pm), a police dispatcher called my
                  > > home phone and asked
                  > > > for my correct address. I told her at this point not to bother,
                  > as
                  > > it's been over two hours
                  > > > since the incident and almost that long since my call, and all
                  > odds
                  > > are that those kids are
                  > > > not still there. I'm continuously frustrated with slowness of
                  311
                  > > responses, but this seems
                  > > > ridiculous to me. Why even bother taking a report or making the
                  > > pretenses of sending
                  > > > officers? I don't want to waste officers' time, which is why I
                  > told
                  > > them not to bother this
                  > > > late in the game, but I do want my legitimate complaints to be
                  > dealt
                  > > with in a timely
                  > > > fashion. What can be done to improve response time? Should I
                  > make a
                  > > point of telling
                  > > > dispatchers it is urgent? This is not the only time 5D officers
                  > have
                  > > failed to show up at my
                  > > > house when I have requested them.
                  > > >
                  > > > -Sonya Harway
                  > > > (10th and Douglas)
                • Toby Susse
                  I have talked to police officers about the stops - and the lieutenant at the meeting said the same thing as what I have heard one-on-one - the stops are being
                  Message 8 of 20 , Aug 30 1:17 PM
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                    Message
                    I have talked to police officers about the stops - and the lieutenant at the meeting said the same thing as what I have heard one-on-one - the stops are being done randomly (as in, every third car, or something along that line), not by how the passengers look. 
                     
                    The placement of stops has to do with a variety of things - issues of crime, requests from the community, directions from above, etc. - and are done all over the city.  If stops are being done inappropriately through racial/sexual/gender profiling, that should be condemned and stopped.... but in the case of what was brought up at the ANC5A meeting, it sounded like it was probably a random stop where the person suspected it was because of the way she looked - which is a very reasonable assumption, since profiling often does happen in this country and throughout our history.
                     
                    Whether any traffic stops should be done (random or otherwise) is another issue - though when done randomly within department guidelines and without the use of profiling, they are currently considered legal.
                     
                    And as for lewd comments, teenagers making lewd and obnoxious comments to passersby in public should not be tolerated by the community- regardless of the gender/sexuality/race - or even dress/appearance - of either the teenagers or the passerby.... but at the same time, I'm not sure what the police role is, cause just cause it is objectionable and made the person feel unsafe, not sure what laws were broken.  Every lawful citizen, though, should feel safe walking on the street regardless of race/sexuality/gender/clothing/appearance.
                     
                    Regardless, even if an officer shows up 2 hours later -or the next day (I believe 311 civilians prioritize calls, officers must always prioritize where they go, there very well may have been more pressing items going on. etc), I would suggest still filing whatever report would have been filed had they come immediately... if only to get the complaints into the statistics so the department will focus in on the area more, as well as information that might prove helpful down the road should something criminal happen - (i.e, a mugging in area where the muggers use the same language, # in groups matches, age matches, etc.). 
                     
                    Finally, I don't believe the question the e-mail has been answered - what should we expect through our 311 system?
                     
                    Thank you.
                     
                    Toby
                  • vivaldi1787
                    Terri on 7th writes: We also don t know how Ms. Harway was dressed. This could have contributed to the comments made. Terri, it sounds as though you are
                    Message 9 of 20 , Aug 30 1:29 PM
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                      Terri on 7th writes: "We also don't know how Ms. Harway was dressed.
                      This could have contributed to the comments made."

                      Terri, it sounds as though you are trying to blame the victim. Three
                      women recently visited my home in the area (two white women and one
                      of East Indian descent, if you must know; two of whom were potential
                      renters) and all three, modestly dressed, attracted unsolicited
                      sexual commentary from men while walking from the local Metro
                      stations.

                      Women should not be harassed while walking on the street, end of
                      story. Fourteen year olds should not be talking in gutter language
                      to strangers, that is at odds with a civil society.

                      I do hope that the police will respond in a timely fashion to women
                      in Ms. Harway's situation.

                      KJH

                      --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "terri_west_of_tracks"
                      <terri_west_of_tracks@y...> wrote:
                      > Friends,
                      >
                      > The racial/sexual/gender implications were well brought at the
                      ANC5A
                      > meeting in July at the Slowe School. One woman in the 10th Street
                      > area told of how police are stopping anyone around 10 street
                      because
                      > of the way they look. Her hair is cut very short such that she
                      could
                      > be confused for a man. She was stopped by the police because of
                      this.
                      > Others talked about police mistaking their block as a problem area
                      > when the concern (a disruptive party) was one or two blocks away.
                      >
                      > We also don't know how Ms. Harway was dressed. This could have
                      > contributed to the comments made. Prostitution is an issue in this
                      > area. African american men had been known to utter lewd remarks to
                      > women of the same race. These boys may have been reflecting that
                      kind
                      > of upbringing.
                      >
                      > Sincerely,
                      >
                      > Terri on 7th
                      >
                    • vivaldi1787
                      Terri on 7th writes: We also don t know how Ms. Harway was dressed. This could have contributed to the comments made. Terri, it sounds as though you are
                      Message 10 of 20 , Aug 30 1:31 PM
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                        Terri on 7th writes: "We also don't know how Ms. Harway was dressed.
                        This could have contributed to the comments made."

                        Terri, it sounds as though you are trying to blame the victim. Three
                        women recently visited my home in the area (two white women and one
                        of East Indian descent, if you must know; two of whom were potential
                        renters) and all three, modestly dressed, attracted unsolicited
                        sexual commentary from men while walking from the local Metro
                        stations.

                        Women should not be harassed while walking on the street, end of
                        story. Fourteen year olds should not be talking in gutter language
                        to strangers, that is at odds with a civil society.

                        I do hope that the police will respond in a timely fashion to women
                        in Ms. Harway's situation.

                        KJH

                        --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "terri_west_of_tracks"
                        <terri_west_of_tracks@y...> wrote:
                        > Friends,
                        >
                        > The racial/sexual/gender implications were well brought at the
                        ANC5A
                        > meeting in July at the Slowe School. One woman in the 10th Street
                        > area told of how police are stopping anyone around 10 street
                        because
                        > of the way they look. Her hair is cut very short such that she
                        could
                        > be confused for a man. She was stopped by the police because of
                        this.
                        > Others talked about police mistaking their block as a problem area
                        > when the concern (a disruptive party) was one or two blocks away.
                        >
                        > We also don't know how Ms. Harway was dressed. This could have
                        > contributed to the comments made. Prostitution is an issue in this
                        > area. African american men had been known to utter lewd remarks to
                        > women of the same race. These boys may have been reflecting that
                        kind
                        > of upbringing.
                        >
                        > Sincerely,
                        >
                        > Terri on 7th
                        >
                      • Harway, Sonya A. 25HARWAY
                        Terri, since you apparently have no response to the private email I sent you, I will respond to the most recent message you posted to the list. You STILL have
                        Message 11 of 20 , Aug 30 8:29 PM
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                          Terri, since you apparently have no response to the private email I sent you, I will respond to the most recent message you posted to the list. You STILL have no frame of reference on which to comment. You don't know the races of anyone involved, you don't know what I was wearing (jogging pants, a T-shirt, and flip-flops, thanks, although anything more revealing is NOT an excuse for the language I heard on Friday), and I am curious as to why you are focusing on what I strongly believe to be the wrong issue. As I stated in my email to you, the reason I wrote that post to the listserv was to make a complaint about the way the issue was handled, not necessarily the issue itself. I would like to make sure that if other women in this neighborhood experience the same type of harassment that they are able to successfully report the individuals to the police so that appropriate action can be taken. If you were subjected to the same type of comments, what would you do? Would you consider the offender's race before deciding which action to take? If the response was unsatisfactory, would you bite your lip based on the race of your offenders?

                          I can't take responsibility for police unlawfully or unfairly stopping people based on gender/race, but I do know that there have been several individuals with serious warrants for their arrest who have been known to hang out in the 2500-2600 blocks of 10th St. Perhaps this is why there is an increase in police stops, at least in my small section of the neighborhood. I also have learned from attending PSA meetings that most of the crime stats have been up from last year's figures, which the Commander and the 5D officers are working hard to change-- another possible reason from increased stops and checks. Regardless, I refuse to take responsibility for the potentially unfair racial profiling going on, as I do not participate in this behavior; please believe me that anyone of ANY race who tells me they want to "stick it in me" and other such charming offers is violating MY liberties. (FYI, Toby, I believe it is considered verbal harassment and improper conduct, which are both against DC law.) My call to 311 and the subsequent post to the listserv were 100% justified, and if you take issue with that, then perhaps you are the one with the problem, although I am still unclear as to what exactly it is.

                          Thanks to those who have stuck up for me. I feel very strongly about this issue and resent the implication that I harbor racist feelings, however latent or unspoken. I am glad there are citizens who can look at situations objectively and not make hasty assumptions about a constructive post to help make 311 more effective.

                          By the way, Lt. Medoro has contacted me off-list and suggested that if this type of situation were to happen again (either with 311 or 911), one should call back and ask the dispatcher to check on the status of the call and make sure it has been properly assigned. All one would need to give would be the address of the situation, or one's name/telephone number if it had been left that during the first call.

                          Sincerely, Sonya Harway
                          (10th and Douglas)


                          ------------------------------------------------------------

                          Message: 4
                          Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 16:35:40 -0000
                          From: "terri_west_of_tracks" <terri_west_of_tracks@...>
                          Subject: Re: 311 problem

                          Friends,

                          The racial/sexual/gender implications were well brought at the ANC5A
                          meeting in July at the Slowe School. One woman in the 10th Street
                          area told of how police are stopping anyone around 10 street because
                          of the way they look. Her hair is cut very short such that she could
                          be confused for a man. She was stopped by the police because of this.
                          Others talked about police mistaking their block as a problem area
                          when the concern (a disruptive party) was one or two blocks away.

                          We also don't know how Ms. Harway was dressed. This could have
                          contributed to the comments made. Prostitution is an issue in this
                          area. African american men had been known to utter lewd remarks to
                          women of the same race. These boys may have been reflecting that kind
                          of upbringing.

                          Sincerely,

                          Terri on 7th
                        • John Galt
                          All, I am a casual observer of this listserv, as I am poised to purchase a house in the Truxton Circle area. I think that it is great that MPD has provided a
                          Message 12 of 20 , Aug 31 6:01 AM
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                            All,
                             
                            I am a casual observer of this listserv, as I am poised to purchase a house in the Truxton Circle area.  I think that it is great that MPD has provided a forum for the residents of Ward 5 to express complaints, ask questions and provide tips for MPD.  Most of us have questions at one time or another about "where are the police" or "what are they doing about this problem".  Ward 5 is giving residents of the neighborhood answers.
                             
                            That being said, answering questions on this listserv, and providing a diologue takes resources.  It takes time out of the day, energy and staff.  The last thing that they (or I) want to sort through in email is a personal conversation/disagreement.  It is important to ensure that respect and cultural sensitivities are displayed on this website, and in the city.  However, these disagreements dont seem to be germane to everyone. 
                             
                            For the sake of all of the readers, and the police who are trying to protect and support the efforts of residents to clean up the neighborhood, Please, take your personal conversations offline.
                             
                            Many Thanks
                             
                            John

                            vivaldi1787 <kristofor1787@...> wrote:
                            Terri on 7th writes: "We also don't know how Ms. Harway was dressed.
                            This could have contributed to the comments made."

                            Terri, it sounds as though you are trying to blame the victim.  Three
                            women recently visited my home in the area (two white women and one
                            of East Indian descent, if you must know; two of whom were potential
                            renters) and all three, modestly dressed, attracted unsolicited
                            sexual commentary from men while walking from the local Metro
                            stations.   

                            Women should not be harassed while walking on the street, end of
                            story.  Fourteen year olds should not be talking in gutter language
                            to strangers, that is at odds with a civil society. 

                            I do hope that the police will respond in a timely fashion to women
                            in Ms. Harway's situation.        
                              
                            KJH

                            --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "terri_west_of_tracks"
                            <terri_west_of_tracks@y...> wrote:
                            > Friends,
                            >
                            > The racial/sexual/gender implications were well brought at the
                            ANC5A
                            > meeting in July at the Slowe School. One woman in the 10th Street
                            > area told of how police are stopping anyone around 10 street
                            because
                            > of the way they look. Her hair is cut very short such that she
                            could
                            > be confused for a man. She was stopped by the police because of
                            this.
                            > Others talked about police mistaking their block as a problem area
                            > when the concern (a disruptive party) was one or two blocks away.
                            >
                            > We also don't know how Ms. Harway was dressed. This could have
                            > contributed to the comments made. Prostitution is an issue in this
                            > area. African american men had been known to utter lewd remarks to
                            > women of the same race. These boys may have been reflecting that
                            kind
                            > of upbringing.
                            >
                            > Sincerely,
                            >
                            > Terri on 7th
                            >



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                          • Toby Susse
                            What are the laws in this city for verbal harassment and improper conduct ? What is the threshold at which something said on the street becomes a crime? I ve
                            Message 13 of 20 , Aug 31 6:37 AM
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                              What are the laws in this city for "verbal harassment and improper
                              conduct"? What is the threshold at which something said on the street
                              becomes a crime?

                              I've heard terrible language used throughout the city by people of all
                              races/sexes/nationalities/ages/etc. that is offensive, demeaning,
                              intimidating, sexually or violently suggestive, etc. (including times
                              directed at me as a passerby) which I believe we should take a strong
                              stand against as a community. I believe the general culture of the city
                              (and country, for that matter) tolerates lewd and offensive language too
                              much and sets a bad example for children and teenagers.

                              But not once have I thought that such behavior, by itself, is illegal.
                              That includes times when I have been yelled at walking on the street
                              with such language as "you $*#*% f-ing faggot" by people who certainly
                              could have physically overtaken me and made me feel unsafe - I would say
                              my liberties were violated, but I still don't think it makes it illegal.
                              Regardless, I do think it is reasonable and advisable to report such
                              behavior if one feels threatened to 311 in order to alert the police to
                              a possible threat to safety in the neighborhood, whether or not it is
                              illegal or not. We should all work to making sure that it is safe and
                              comfortable for any law-abiding person to walk in our neighborhoods.

                              So, can someone from MPD or someone involved with DC Law clarify what
                              the law is and at what point offensive and lewd remarks in public are
                              considered "verbal harassment and improper conduct"? At what point does
                              freedom of speech no longer apply?

                              Thanks.

                              Toby on 13th


                              "please believe me that anyone of ANY race who tells me they want to
                              "stick it in me" and other such charming offers is violating MY
                              liberties. (FYI, Toby, I believe it is considered verbal harassment and
                              improper conduct, which are both against DC law.)"
                            • Scott Shappell
                              This has gone too far. Did this woman just say she was asking for it by the way she was dressed? I signed up for this list-serve as a direct-connect to MPD.
                              Message 14 of 20 , Aug 31 6:41 AM
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                                This has gone too far. Did this woman just say she was 'asking for it' by
                                the way she was dressed?

                                I signed up for this list-serve as a direct-connect to MPD. This sort of
                                banter should NOT be tolerated.

                                MPD must assign a moderator to this list.

                                Scott Shappell



                                >From: "terri_west_of_tracks" <terri_west_of_tracks@...>
                                >Reply-To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com
                                >To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com
                                >Subject: [MPD-5D] Re: 311 problem
                                >Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 16:35:40 -0000
                                >
                                >Friends,
                                >
                                >The racial/sexual/gender implications were well brought at the ANC5A
                                >meeting in July at the Slowe School. One woman in the 10th Street
                                >area told of how police are stopping anyone around 10 street because
                                >of the way they look. Her hair is cut very short such that she could
                                >be confused for a man. She was stopped by the police because of this.
                                >Others talked about police mistaking their block as a problem area
                                >when the concern (a disruptive party) was one or two blocks away.
                                >
                                >We also don't know how Ms. Harway was dressed. This could have
                                >contributed to the comments made. Prostitution is an issue in this
                                >area. African american men had been known to utter lewd remarks to
                                >women of the same race. These boys may have been reflecting that kind
                                >of upbringing.
                                >
                                >Sincerely,
                                >
                                >Terri on 7th
                                >
                                >
                                >--- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "erheramb" <erheramb@y...> wrote:
                                > > I'm confused as to how this would relate to any type of race issues
                                > > since Ms. Harway neither stated the harassers' race or her own.
                                > > Personally, I feel this has nothing to do with race but with a
                                > > person walking down the street being verbally harassed to the point
                                > > where the person may feel unsafe or, at least, extrememly
                                > > uncomfortable and feels the police need to intervene with a group
                                >of
                                > > adolescents. Verbal harassment can feel threatening and I would
                                >not
                                > > downplay an incident where a person is feeling uncomfortable to the
                                > > point of police intervention,
                                > > Erin
                                > > 10th
                                > > --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "terri_west_of_tracks"
                                > > <terri_west_of_tracks@y...> wrote:
                                > > > Friends,
                                > > >
                                > > > I can understand the distress of Ms. Harway's experience. But,
                                > > > accounts like this on this listserv bring to mind the Emmett Till
                                > > > incidence of the 1950's. A fourteen year old boy visiting
                                > > relatives in
                                > > > Missippi who made a remark to a store owner's wife upon the
                                >urging
                                > > of
                                > > > some friends who wanted Emmett to "talk" to this woman. It later
                                > > > resulted in his lynching and what some may call the start of the
                                > > civil
                                > > > rights movement.
                                > > >
                                > > > I just hope these "complaints" can be kept with the police and not
                                > > > aired on listservs like this, where it might incite racial
                                >actions.
                                > > >
                                > > > Thanks,
                                > > >
                                > > > Terri on 7th
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "Sonya Harway" <25harway@c...>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > > > While out walking with my dog this afternoon, I was seriously
                                > > > harassed by a group of
                                > > > > young kids at 10th and Hamlin. They were probably 14 or 15
                                >years
                                > > old
                                > > > and used some
                                > > > > absolutely disgusting language towards me, including lewd and
                                > > sexual
                                > > > remarks. I
                                > > > > unfortunately did not have my cell phone on me at the time, but
                                > > when
                                > > > I returned home
                                > > > > just before 4pm, I called 311 to report the harassment. The
                                > > > dispatcher asked me if I'd like
                                > > > > to speak to an officer, and based on the seriousness of this
                                > > > particular incident, I said yes.
                                > > > > She took my name, address, and phone number and told me the next
                                > > > officers would
                                > > > > respond to my house. The dispatcher started wrapping up the call
                                > > > without taking a
                                > > > > description of the kids involved, so I asked her if she needed a
                                > > > description. She said no,
                                > > > > because I could give the description to the officers when they
                                > > > arrived. At 4:23 I saw two
                                > > > > officers cruise the alley behind my house, where they
                                >apprehended
                                > > > two men, at least one
                                > > > > of whom was drinking alcohol. I assumed they were coming to my
                                > > house
                                > > > next, but
                                > > > > apparently these officers were not the ones dispatched to my
                                > > house.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > About 15 minutes ago (around 6pm), a police dispatcher called my
                                > > > home phone and asked
                                > > > > for my correct address. I told her at this point not to bother,
                                > > as
                                > > > it's been over two hours
                                > > > > since the incident and almost that long since my call, and all
                                > > odds
                                > > > are that those kids are
                                > > > > not still there. I'm continuously frustrated with slowness of
                                >311
                                > > > responses, but this seems
                                > > > > ridiculous to me. Why even bother taking a report or making the
                                > > > pretenses of sending
                                > > > > officers? I don't want to waste officers' time, which is why I
                                > > told
                                > > > them not to bother this
                                > > > > late in the game, but I do want my legitimate complaints to be
                                > > dealt
                                > > > with in a timely
                                > > > > fashion. What can be done to improve response time? Should I
                                > > make a
                                > > > point of telling
                                > > > > dispatchers it is urgent? This is not the only time 5D officers
                                > > have
                                > > > failed to show up at my
                                > > > > house when I have requested them.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > -Sonya Harway
                                > > > > (10th and Douglas)
                                >
                                >

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                              • Bill and Rob
                                I ve always been discouraged by comments like these coming from people too busy to care. If reading email is a burden, take yourself off of the distro. The
                                Message 15 of 20 , Aug 31 7:43 AM
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                                  I've always been discouraged by comments like these
                                  coming from people too busy to care. If reading email
                                  is a burden, take yourself off of the distro. The
                                  police department must find these conversations
                                  valuable, otherwise they would be the entity making
                                  this statement. Please, only speak for yourself.

                                  Bill
                                  10th and Hamlin

                                  --- John Galt <johngalt332002@...> wrote:

                                  > All,
                                  >
                                  > I am a casual observer of this listserv, as I am
                                  > poised to purchase a house in the Truxton Circle
                                  > area. I think that it is great that MPD has
                                  > provided a forum for the residents of Ward 5 to
                                  > express complaints, ask questions and provide tips
                                  > for MPD. Most of us have questions at one time or
                                  > another about "where are the police" or "what are
                                  > they doing about this problem". Ward 5 is giving
                                  > residents of the neighborhood answers.
                                  >
                                  > That being said, answering questions on this
                                  > listserv, and providing a diologue takes resources.
                                  > It takes time out of the day, energy and staff. The
                                  > last thing that they (or I) want to sort through in
                                  > email is a personal conversation/disagreement. It
                                  > is important to ensure that respect and cultural
                                  > sensitivities are displayed on this website, and in
                                  > the city. However, these disagreements dont seem to
                                  > be germane to everyone.
                                  >
                                  > For the sake of all of the readers, and the police
                                  > who are trying to protect and support the efforts of
                                  > residents to clean up the neighborhood, Please, take
                                  > your personal conversations offline.
                                  >
                                  > Many Thanks
                                  >
                                  > John
                                  >
                                  > vivaldi1787 <kristofor1787@...> wrote:
                                  > Terri on 7th writes: "We also don't know how Ms.
                                  > Harway was dressed.
                                  > This could have contributed to the comments made."
                                  >
                                  > Terri, it sounds as though you are trying to blame
                                  > the victim. Three
                                  > women recently visited my home in the area (two
                                  > white women and one
                                  > of East Indian descent, if you must know; two of
                                  > whom were potential
                                  > renters) and all three, modestly dressed, attracted
                                  > unsolicited
                                  > sexual commentary from men while walking from the
                                  > local Metro
                                  > stations.
                                  >
                                  > Women should not be harassed while walking on the
                                  > street, end of
                                  > story. Fourteen year olds should not be talking in
                                  > gutter language
                                  > to strangers, that is at odds with a civil society.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I do hope that the police will respond in a timely
                                  > fashion to women
                                  > in Ms. Harway's situation.
                                  >
                                  > KJH
                                  >
                                  > --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com,
                                  > "terri_west_of_tracks"
                                  > <terri_west_of_tracks@y...> wrote:
                                  > > Friends,
                                  > >
                                  > > The racial/sexual/gender implications were well
                                  > brought at the
                                  > ANC5A
                                  > > meeting in July at the Slowe School. One woman in
                                  > the 10th Street
                                  > > area told of how police are stopping anyone around
                                  > 10 street
                                  > because
                                  > > of the way they look. Her hair is cut very short
                                  > such that she
                                  > could
                                  > > be confused for a man. She was stopped by the
                                  > police because of
                                  > this.
                                  > > Others talked about police mistaking their block
                                  > as a problem area
                                  > > when the concern (a disruptive party) was one or
                                  > two blocks away.
                                  > >
                                  > > We also don't know how Ms. Harway was dressed.
                                  > This could have
                                  > > contributed to the comments made. Prostitution is
                                  > an issue in this
                                  > > area. African american men had been known to utter
                                  > lewd remarks to
                                  > > women of the same race. These boys may have been
                                  > reflecting that
                                  > kind
                                  > > of upbringing.
                                  > >
                                  > > Sincerely,
                                  > >
                                  > > Terri on 7th
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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                                • Vann, Linda M.
                                  Thank you very much! I feel that this is a very informative listserv and it has served its purpose well. Please don t misuse it because it might be taken away,
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Aug 31 9:44 AM
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                                    Thank you very much! I feel that this is a very informative listserv and it has served its purpose well. Please don’t misuse it because it might be taken away, and that would be a shame for all participants.

                                     


                                    From: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Galt
                                    Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:02 AM
                                    To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [MPD-5D] 311 problem and Terri on 7th's attitude

                                     

                                    All,

                                     

                                    I am a casual observer of this listserv, as I am poised to purchase a house in the Truxton Circle area.  I think that it is great that MPD has provided a forum for the residents of Ward 5 to express complaints, ask questions and provide tips for MPD.  Most of us have questions at one time or another about "where are the police" or "what are they doing about this problem".  Ward 5 is giving residents of the neighborhood answers.

                                     

                                    That being said, answering questions on this listserv, and providing a diologue takes resources.  It takes time out of the day, energy and staff.  The last thing that they (or I) want to sort through in email is a personal conversation/disagreement.  It is important to ensure that respect and cultural sensitivities are displayed on this website, and in the city.  However, these disagreements dont seem to be germane to everyone. 

                                     

                                    For the sake of all of the readers, and the police who are trying to protect and support the efforts of residents to clean up the neighborhood, Please, take your personal conversations offline.

                                     

                                    Many Thanks

                                     

                                    John

                                    vivaldi1787 <kristofor1787@...> wrote:

                                    Terri on 7th writes: "We also don't know how Ms. Harway was dressed.
                                    This could have contributed to the comments made."

                                    Terri, it sounds as though you are trying to blame the victim.  Three
                                    women recently visited my home in the area (two white women and one
                                    of East Indian descent, if you must know; two of whom were potential
                                    renters) and all three, modestly dressed, attracted unsolicited
                                    sexual commentary from men while walking from the local Metro
                                    stations.   

                                    Women should not be harassed while walking on the street, end of
                                    story.  Fourteen year olds should not be talking in gutter language
                                    to strangers, that is at odds with a civil society. 

                                    I do hope that the police will respond in a timely fashion to women
                                    in Ms. Harway's situation.        
                                      
                                    KJH

                                    --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "terri_west_of_tracks"
                                    <terri_west_of_tracks@y...> wrote:
                                    > Friends,
                                    >
                                    > The racial/sexual/gender implications were well brought at the
                                    ANC5A
                                    > meeting in July at the Slowe School . One woman in the 10th Street
                                    > area told of how police are stopping anyone around 10 street
                                    because
                                    > of the way they look. Her hair is cut very short such that she
                                    could
                                    > be confused for a man. She was stopped by the police because of
                                    this.
                                    > Others talked about police mistaking their block as a problem area
                                    > when the concern (a disruptive party) was one or two blocks away.
                                    >
                                    > We also don't know how Ms. Harway was dressed. This could have
                                    > contributed to the comments made. Prostitution is an issue in this
                                    > area. African american men had been known to utter lewd remarks to
                                    > women of the same race. These boys m! ay have been reflecting that
                                    kind
                                    > of upbringing.
                                    >
                                    > Sincerely,
                                    >
                                    > Terri on 7th
                                    >


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                                  • Toby Susse
                                    Welcome! Point well taken (though we all probably differ on exactly what we consider germane - but agree with the general idea and was thinking something
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Aug 31 10:49 AM
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                                      Message
                                      Welcome!  Point well taken (though we all probably differ on exactly what we consider germane - but agree with the general idea and was thinking something similar myself)
                                       
                                      One thing I do want to point out - and it is a major misconception and obvious assumption people make - Ward 5 and Police District 5 are NOT the same and do not have the same borders.  This listserv is connected with Police District 5.  Most of Ward 5 is in District 5, but not all of it is.  The northern part of Ward 5 is in District 4, which is primarily in Ward 4.
                                       
                                      Confused?  I was before I took the time out to study the maps. 
                                       
                                      I point this out not to be technical, but rather I think it's important that everyone know both which Ward and which Police District they are in.  Unfortunately, the way the lines are drawn, it's confusing and not user-friendly.  It would be so much easier if the Ward and Police District maps matched - if not, some system where it wouldn't be so easy to confuse the two - like one designated by letters, the other by numbers.
                                       
                                      As a resident of Ward 5 who is right over the border from District 5 in District 4 (though used to be in District 5 before lines got redrawn), I see this confusion all the time.  Once during a neighborhood Orange Hat walk, we met a retired officer who lives in the area who wasn't aware the border had changed and that he was now in District 4.  Another neighbor went to a Ward 5 meeting where information was given out with Police District 5 information - with nothing about District 4 or even indicating that Ward 5 residents may not be in District 5 - this was a full year after the borders were changed.  So, when she had an issue, she was calling the wrong numbers, not knowing she was calling the wrong district.
                                       
                                      On that note, can someone from the 5-D department let us know what progress is being made to better increase coordination between 4th and 5th District Officers along the Taylor St. -Michigan Ave. border.  Officers working on both sides of that border need to have the tools and information to coordinate better, especially with the new Turkey Thicket Rec Center opening up.  I have spoken to officers on both sides on several levels and there seems to be general agreement that the two districts need to better coordinate, so I want to be sure something is being done.  If there is an action plan being put in place for the Turkey Thicket area by PSA 502, please be sure to share that information with officers in PSA 405.  Officers on both sides do not seem to get information in their briefings of incidents within blocks of over their border - even major incidents like the recent homicide just 2-3 blocks south of the 4th-5th border line. 
                                       
                                      Thank you.
                                       
                                      Toby on 13th
                                      Michigan Park
                                       
                                       
                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Galt
                                      Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:02 AM
                                      To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [MPD-5D] 311 problem and Terri on 7th's attitude

                                      All,
                                       
                                      I am a casual observer of this listserv, as I am poised to purchase a house in the Truxton Circle area.  I think that it is great that MPD has provided a forum for the residents of Ward 5 to express complaints, ask questions and provide tips for MPD.  Most of us have questions at one time or another about "where are the police" or "what are they doing about this problem".  Ward 5 is giving residents of the neighborhood answers.
                                       
                                      That being said, answering questions on this listserv, and providing a diologue takes resources.  It takes time out of the day, energy and staff.  The last thing that they (or I) want to sort through in email is a personal conversation/disagreement.  It is important to ensure that respect and cultural sensitivities are displayed on this website, and in the city.  However, these disagreements dont seem to be germane to everyone. 
                                       
                                      For the sake of all of the readers, and the police who are trying to protect and support the efforts of residents to clean up the neighborhood, Please, take your personal conversations offline.
                                       
                                      Many Thanks
                                       
                                      John
                                    • Mary Ann
                                      Applause, applause, applause. Like you, I am a casual observer of this listserve and most often I choose not to read the messages because of their content...
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Aug 31 11:41 AM
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                                        Message
                                        Applause, applause, applause.  Like you, I am a casual observer of this listserve and most often I choose not to read the messages because of their content... and so, they get deleted unread.  I'm probably denying myself access to relevant information about public safety but the tone of too many of the messages saddens me.   I have lived in Ward 5 for more the 20 years and the sentiments of my fellow Ward Fivers about each other is very troubling.  In the words of Rodney King..."Can't we all get along?"
                                         
                                         Thank you for your response.
                                         
                                        Mary Ann Wilmer
                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Galt
                                        Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:02 AM
                                        To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [MPD-5D] 311 problem and Terri on 7th's attitude

                                        All,
                                         
                                        I am a casual observer of this listserv, as I am poised to purchase a house in the Truxton Circle area.  I think that it is great that MPD has provided a forum for the residents of Ward 5 to express complaints, ask questions and provide tips for MPD.  Most of us have questions at one time or another about "where are the police" or "what are they doing about this problem".  Ward 5 is giving residents of the neighborhood answers.
                                         
                                        That being said, answering questions on this listserv, and providing a diologue takes resources.  It takes time out of the day, energy and staff.  The last thing that they (or I) want to sort through in email is a personal conversation/disagreement.  It is important to ensure that respect and cultural sensitivities are displayed on this website, and in the city.  However, these disagreements dont seem to be germane to everyone. 
                                         
                                        For the sake of all of the readers, and the police who are trying to protect and support the efforts of residents to clean up the neighborhood, Please, take your personal conversations offline.
                                         
                                        Many Thanks
                                         
                                        John

                                        vivaldi1787 <kristofor1787@...> wrote:
                                        Terri on 7th writes: "We also don't know how Ms. Harway was dressed.
                                        This could have contributed to the comments made."

                                        Terri, it sounds as though you are trying to blame the victim.  Three
                                        women recently visited my home in the area (two white women and one
                                        of East Indian descent, if you must know; two of whom were potential
                                        renters) and all three, modestly dressed, attracted unsolicited
                                        sexual commentary from men while walking from the local Metro
                                        stations.   

                                        Women should not be harassed while walking on the street, end of
                                        story.  Fourteen year olds should not be talking in gutter language
                                        to strangers, that is at odds with a civil society. 

                                        I do hope that the police will respond in a timely fashion to women
                                        in Ms. Harway's situation.        
                                          
                                        KJH

                                        --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com, "terri_west_of_tracks"
                                        <terri_west_of_tracks@y...> wrote:
                                        > Friends,
                                        >
                                        > The racial/sexual/gender implications were well brought at the
                                        ANC5A
                                        > meeting in July at the Slowe School. One woman in the 10th Street
                                        > area told of how police are stopping anyone around 10 street
                                        because
                                        > of the way they look. Her hair is cut very short such that she
                                        could
                                        > be confused for a man. She was stopped by the police because of
                                        this.
                                        > Others talked about police mistaking their block as a problem area
                                        > when the concern (a disruptive party) was one or two blocks away.
                                        >
                                        > We also don't know how Ms. Harway was dressed. This could have
                                        > contributed to the comments made. Prostitution is an issue in this
                                        > area. African american men had been known to utter lewd remarks to
                                        > women of the same race. These boys may have been reflecting that
                                        kind
                                        > of upbringing.
                                        >
                                        > Sincerely,
                                        >
                                        > Terri on 7th
                                        >



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                                      • Bill and Rob
                                        May I repeat myself. Let the police department speak for itself. John, is recommending censorship. Bill 10th and Hamlin ...
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Aug 31 2:10 PM
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                                          May I repeat myself. Let the police department speak
                                          for itself. John, is recommending censorship.

                                          Bill
                                          10th and Hamlin

                                          --- Mary Ann <maryannwilmer@...> wrote:

                                          > Applause, applause, applause. Like you, I am a
                                          > casual observer of this
                                          > listserve and most often I choose not to read the
                                          > messages because of
                                          > their content... and so, they get deleted unread.
                                          > I'm probably denying
                                          > myself access to relevant information about public
                                          > safety but the tone
                                          > of too many of the messages saddens me. I have
                                          > lived in Ward 5 for
                                          > more the 20 years and the sentiments of my fellow
                                          > Ward Fivers about each
                                          > other is very troubling. In the words of Rodney
                                          > King..."Can't we all
                                          > get along?"
                                          >
                                          > Thank you for your response.
                                          >
                                          > Mary Ann Wilmer
                                          >
                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          > From: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com
                                          > [mailto:MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                          > Of John Galt
                                          > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:02 AM
                                          > To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: Re: [MPD-5D] 311 problem and Terri on 7th's
                                          > attitude
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > All,
                                          >
                                          > I am a casual observer of this listserv, as I am
                                          > poised to purchase a
                                          > house in the Truxton Circle area. I think that it
                                          > is great that MPD has
                                          > provided a forum for the residents of Ward 5 to
                                          > express complaints, ask
                                          > questions and provide tips for MPD. Most of us have
                                          > questions at one
                                          > time or another about "where are the police" or
                                          > "what are they doing
                                          > about this problem". Ward 5 is giving residents of
                                          > the neighborhood
                                          > answers.
                                          >
                                          > That being said, answering questions on this
                                          > listserv, and providing a
                                          > diologue takes resources. It takes time out of the
                                          > day, energy and
                                          > staff. The last thing that they (or I) want to sort
                                          > through in email is
                                          > a personal conversation/disagreement. It is
                                          > important to ensure that
                                          > respect and cultural sensitivities are displayed on
                                          > this website, and in
                                          > the city. However, these disagreements dont seem to
                                          > be germane to
                                          > everyone.
                                          >
                                          > For the sake of all of the readers, and the police
                                          > who are trying to
                                          > protect and support the efforts of residents to
                                          > clean up the
                                          > neighborhood, Please, take your personal
                                          > conversations offline.
                                          >
                                          > Many Thanks
                                          >
                                          > John
                                          >
                                          > vivaldi1787 <kristofor1787@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Terri on 7th writes: "We also don't know how Ms.
                                          > Harway was dressed.
                                          > This could have contributed to the comments made."
                                          >
                                          > Terri, it sounds as though you are trying to blame
                                          > the victim. Three
                                          > women recently visited my home in the area (two
                                          > white women and one
                                          > of East Indian descent, if you must know; two of
                                          > whom were potential
                                          > renters) and all three, modestly dressed, attracted
                                          > unsolicited
                                          > sexual commentary from men while walking from the
                                          > local Metro
                                          > stations.
                                          >
                                          > Women should not be harassed while walking on the
                                          > street, end of
                                          > story. Fourteen year olds should not be talking in
                                          > gutter language
                                          > to strangers, that is at odds with a civil society.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > I do hope that the police will respond in a timely
                                          > fashion to women
                                          > in Ms. Harway's situation.
                                          >
                                          > KJH
                                          >
                                          > --- In MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com,
                                          > "terri_west_of_tracks"
                                          > <terri_west_of_tracks@y...> wrote:
                                          > > Friends,
                                          > >
                                          > > The racial/sexual/gender implications were well
                                          > brought at the
                                          > ANC5A
                                          > > meeting in July at the Slowe School. One woman in
                                          > the 10th Street
                                          > > area told of how police are stopping anyone around
                                          > 10 street
                                          > because
                                          > > of the way they look. Her hair is cut very short
                                          > such that she
                                          > could
                                          > > be confused for a man. She was stopped by the
                                          > police because of
                                          > this.
                                          > > Others talked about police mistaking their block
                                          > as a problem area
                                          > > when the concern (a disruptive party) was one or
                                          > two blocks away.
                                          > >
                                          > > We also don't know how Ms. Harway was dressed.
                                          > This could have
                                          > > contributed to the comments made. Prostitution is
                                          > an issue in this
                                          > > area. African american men had been known to utter
                                          > lewd remarks to
                                          > > women of the same race. These boys may have been
                                          > reflecting that
                                          > kind
                                          > > of upbringing.
                                          > >
                                          > > Sincerely,
                                          > >
                                          > > Terri on 7th
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > __________________________________________________
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                                        • Joseph Martin
                                          The cover page to the 4D-Neighbors website shows the area covered by MPD-4D that includes part of Ward 5: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/4D-Neighbors MPD-5D s
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Aug 31 4:05 PM
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                                            The cover page to the 4D-Neighbors website shows the
                                            area covered by MPD-4D that includes part of Ward 5:
                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/4D-Neighbors

                                            MPD-5D's are can be seen through this link:
                                            http://mpdc.dc.gov/mpdc/cwp/view,a,1239,Q,545954,mpdcNav_GID,1538.asp

                                            Joseph Martin
                                            Group Moderator



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