Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [MPD-5D] Washington DC Guardian Angels Patrols

Expand Messages
  • k3
    I was interested in this question too. For example, if OJ had (a) called the police right away and (b) not brought a friend who carried a gun, would his
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 23, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      I was interested in this question too. For example, if OJ had (a)
      called the police right away and (b) not brought a friend who carried
      a gun, would his defense have held?

      Some of the answers are clear cut, eg, you can't detain someone for a
      minor crime unless you actually witnessed it. Others are nebulous. I
      found a good hypothetical example (from someone who clearly states
      he/she is not an attorney) at:
      http://legallad.quickanddirtytips.com/citizens-arrest-2.aspx

      My husband pointed out that part of the problem is what's
      "reasonable". If you see someone commit murder and tackle him and hold
      him for the cops, that's one thing. If you see someone with a bag of
      pot and tackle him, that's another ... especially if it turns out to
      be catnip.

      Performing an "any person's arrest" can put you in some serious legal
      jeopardy. For an ordinary citizen, this could be devastating. For an
      organization, it could be great publicity.

      I, too, am interested in local officials' take. Regarding the guy who
      had to be talked out of jumping ... I wonder how common complications
      like these are.

      Also, I found this interesting piece:
      http://www.susanallenforcongress.com/~wudukes/?p=26


      -----Original Message-----
      From: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
      Of
      Art Corvelay
      Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 11:14 AM
      To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com; mpd-1d
      Subject: Re: [MPD-5D] Washington DC Guardian Angels Patrols


      i too am very concerned about this. why has no one from mpd responded
      to this question???

      i know that citizens can make citizens arrest for a few crimes
      committed in their presence (assault, etc) but am unaware that they
      have the right to detain someone for crime committed outside of their
      presence and based on a description heard.

      would this be kidnapping (forcing someone to not move freely without
      the proper authority)? if mpd continues to endorse/support this are
      they open to liability from lawsuits (guardian angels are provided
      with a police radio, according to a previous email, so mpd clearly
      endorses this).

      mpd please answer:

      -can private citizens detain people who match descriptions/lookouts
      given by mpd without observing the crime, as below?
      -can private citizens make a citizens arrest for drug offenses and
      physically restrain persons for such, as below?
      -if either answer is no, will mpd pursue criminal investigations?

      some of the below actions sound very peculiar and i wonder about their
      legality...
    • midatlantic .
      To the Concerned Residents, The Guardian Angels are all volunteers and are in the community to assist residents and act as eyes and ears for the police. We
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 23, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        To the Concerned Residents,
         
        The Guardian Angels are all volunteers and are in the community to assist residents and act as eyes and ears for the police.  We either have full time jobs or in school and spend our spare time giving back to the community.  We dare to care.  The police cannot do it alone; everyone must pitch in and help with reducing crime.
         
        Just recently on 14th & Parkwood Streets, a homeless man was beaten and stomped and went into a comma for a few days.  Witnesses were standing around during this ordeal and no one did nothing to assist him.  The entire beating was videotaped by a neighborhood store surveillance camera.  He passed away due to his injuries. If bystanders had reported this to the police immediately, this young man could possibly be still alive today. 
         
        I have answered your questions below.
        Do the guardians angels have special permission to detain people?  or is that also maybe called assault, battery or maybe kidnapping? and it can lead to a vigilante. 
        The Guardian Angels are not vigilantes.  We abide by the law and we are not judge, jury and executioner.  We have no special powers, and are no different from anyone else out on the street, except we are trained to work as a team.and we train in citizens arrest procedures.  We are also trained in first aid, which is hardly a vigilante type activity.  We are against violence.  Our aim is to help people who are in danger and act as a visual deterrent to crime.  It is the right and duty of all responsible people to help others.  The right to intervene to save someone's life is given to all of us by the laws of the country.


        Some of the answers are clear cut, eg, you can't detain someone for a minor crime unless you actually witnessed it

        The difference between making a citizens arrest and detainment:

        • A person who voluntarily remains where they are and agrees to answer questions is referred to as "detained".  Detainment means they are consenting to stay until the police arrive.  
        • Arrest means you are holding a person against their will.  

        When the lookout came over the air for the seven young men who assaulted the metro bus driver (X2 bus line) on 7th & H Sts NW, we saw some young men who fit the description. We informed dispatch that we were on 7th Street between G & H and have in our view some young men that fit the description.  We politely asked the young men to wait until the police arrive because they fit the description of suspects of a crime that had just occured.  We are aware that if the crime is a misdemeanor and we did not witness it, then we have no power to hold them against their will.


        When can a Guardian Angel make an arrest?

        a. For a misdemeanor crime - providing the Guardian Angel witnessed the crime being committed.
        b. For a felony crime - If the Guardian Angels either witnessed a crime or has reasonable cause to believe the suspect committed it.  The Guardian Angels does not have to witness the crime in order to make a citizens arrest on a suspect.

        If MPD continues to endorse/support this are they open to liability from lawsuits
        The Guardian Angels are responsible for their actions not the police. We have been working with police and have been involved in the fight against violent street crime for 30 years around the world and we have never been sued for our actions.  We have a great relationship with the police. They recognize the value of what we are doing.  Preventing street crime is not just a job for the police. In fact, it is not a job at all.  It is a moral duty that everyone look after each other and help if someone is being attacked or get involved if we see a crime.  



        John "Unique" Ayala
        Director Of Operations
        Washington DC
        Guardian Angels
        202-359-0601
        www.guardianangels.org

        Guardian Angels and Police Officers
        working together to make
        a difference

      • RobbyCU
        I am sure the GA s do good work in some circumstances, but I d rather leave the policing to the actual police. I see law enforcement primary as an inherently
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 23, 2009
        • 0 Attachment

          I am sure the GA's do good work in some circumstances, but I'd rather leave the policing to the actual police. I see law enforcement primary as an inherently governmental function. I don't doubt the GA's effectiveness, but reading this really raised the hair on the back of my neck.   I can't imagine any situation that I would allow myself of any person in my care to be "detained" by any one other than a law enforcement official. I believe in community policing, but this seems to go too far.

          This is my personal opinion and I know there are others that believe differently and we will agree to disagree.

          In my neighborhood, I know that what's solved most crimes has been people coming forward.  To the end that the GAs and other groups help facilitate an environment that people feel comfortable coming forward there should be appreciation. However, regular, hardnosed, and very much appreciated community policing by DC's finest is responsible for the crime reduction.

          5D should be celebrated for their hard work and this accomplishment.

          As a resident, thank you very much 5D.

          -Robby
           
          ______________________________________________
          "Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek."

          President Barack Obama



          From: midatlantic . <midatlantic@...>
          To: midatlantic@...
          Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 9:48:46 PM
          Subject: [MPD-5D] Washington DC Guardian Angels Patrols

          To the Concerned Residents,
           
          The Guardian Angels are all volunteers and are in the community to assist residents and act as eyes and ears for the police.  We either have full time jobs or in school and spend our spare time giving back to the community.  We dare to care.  The police cannot do it alone; everyone must pitch in and help with reducing crime.
           
          Just recently on 14th & Parkwood Streets, a homeless man was beaten and stomped and went into a comma for a few days.  Witnesses were standing around during this ordeal and no one did nothing to assist him.  The entire beating was videotaped by a neighborhood store surveillance camera.  He passed away due to his injuries. If bystanders had reported this to the police immediately, this young man could possibly be still alive today. 
           
          I have answered your questions below.
          Do the guardians angels have special permission to detain people?  or is that also maybe called assault, battery or maybe kidnapping? and it can lead to a vigilante. 
          The Guardian Angels are not vigilantes.  We abide by the law and we are not judge, jury and executioner.  We have no special powers, and are no different from anyone else out on the street, except we are trained to work as a team.and we train in citizens arrest procedures.  We are also trained in first aid, which is hardly a vigilante type activity.  We are against violence.  Our aim is to help people who are in danger and act as a visual deterrent to crime.  It is the right and duty of all responsible people to help others.  The right to intervene to save someone's life is given to all of us by the laws of the country.


          Some of the answers are clear cut, eg, you can't detain someone for a minor crime unless you actually witnessed it

          The difference between making a citizens arrest and detainment:

          • A person who voluntarily remains where they are and agrees to answer questions is referred to as "detained".  Detainment means they are consenting to stay until the police arrive.  
          • Arrest means you are holding a person against their will.  

          When the lookout came over the air for the seven young men who assaulted the metro bus driver (X2 bus line) on 7th & H Sts NW, we saw some young men who fit the description. We informed dispatch that we were on 7th Street between G & H and have in our view some young men that fit the description.  We politely asked the young men to wait until the police arrive because they fit the description of suspects of a crime that had just occured.  We are aware that if the crime is a misdemeanor and we did not witness it, then we have no power to hold them against their will.


          When can a Guardian Angel make an arrest?

          a. For a misdemeanor crime - providing the Guardian Angel witnessed the crime being committed.
          b. For a felony crime - If the Guardian Angels either witnessed a crime or has reasonable cause to believe the suspect committed it.  The Guardian Angels does not have to witness the crime in order to make a citizens arrest on a suspect.

          If MPD continues to endorse/support this are they open to liability from lawsuits
          The Guardian Angels are responsible for their actions not the police. We have been working with police and have been involved in the fight against violent street crime for 30 years around the world and we have never been sued for our actions.  We have a great relationship with the police. They recognize the value of what we are doing.  Preventing street crime is not just a job for the police. In fact, it is not a job at all.  It is a moral duty that everyone look after each other and help if someone is being attacked or get involved if we see a crime.  



          John "Unique" Ayala
          Director Of Operations
          Washington DC
          Guardian Angels
          202-359-0601
          www.guardianangels.org

          Guardian Angels and Police Officers
          working together to make
          a difference



        • DCReardon@AOL.COM
          Thank you for providing all this clarifying information. ... From: midatlantic . To: midatlantic@guardianangels.org Sent: Mon,
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 24, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Thank you for providing all this clarifying information.


            -----Original Message-----
            From: midatlantic . <midatlantic@...>
            To: midatlantic@...
            Sent: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 9:48 pm
            Subject: [MPD-5D] Washington DC Guardian Angels Patrols

            To the Concerned Residents,
             
            The Guardian Angels are all volunteers and are in the community to assist residents and act as eyes and ears for the police.  We either have full time jobs or in school and spend our spare time giving back to the community.  We dare to care.  The police cannot do it alone; everyone must pitch in and help with reducing crime.
             
            Just recently on 14th & Parkwood Streets, a homeless man was beaten and stomped and went into a comma for a few days.  Witnesses were standing around during this ordeal and no one did nothing to assist him.  The entire beating was videotaped by a neighborhood store surveillance camera.  He passed away due to his injuries. If bystanders had reported this to the police immediately, this young man could possibly be still alive today. 
             
            I have answered your questions below.
            Do the guardians angels have special permission to detain people?  or is that also maybe called assault, battery or maybe kidnapping? and it can lead to a vigilante. 
            The Guardian Angels are not vigilantes.  We abide by the law and we are not judge, jury and executioner.  We have no special powers, and are no different from anyone else out on the street, except we are trained to work as a team.and we train in citizens arrest procedures.  We are also trained in first aid, which is hardly a vigilante type activity.  We are against violence.  Our aim is to help people who are in danger and act as a visual deterrent to crime.  It is the right and duty of all responsible people to help others.  The right to intervene to save someone's life is given to all of us by the laws of the country.


            Some of the answers are clear cut, eg, you can't detain someone for a minor crime unless you actually witnessed it
            The difference between making a citizens arrest and detainment:
            • A person who voluntarily remains where they are and agrees to answer questions is referred to as "detained".  Detainment means they are consenting to stay until the police arrive.  
            • Arrest means you are holding a person against their will.  
            When the lookout came over the air for the seven young men who assaulted the metro bus driver (X2 bus line) on 7th & H Sts NW, we saw some young men who fit the description. We informed dispatch that we were on 7th Street between G & H and have in our view some young men that fit the description.  We politely asked the young men to wait until the police arrive because they fit the description of suspects of a crime that had just occured.  We are aware that if the crime is a misdemeanor and we did not witness it, then we have no power to hold them against their will.

            When can a Guardian Angel make an arrest?

            a. For a misdemeanor crime - providing the Guardian Angel witnessed the crime being committed.
            b. For a felony crime - If the Guardian Angels either witnessed a crime or has reasonable cause to believe the suspect committed it.  The Guardian Angels does not have to witness the crime in order to make a citizens arrest on a suspect.

            If MPD continues to endorse/support this are they open to liability from lawsuits
            The Guardian Angels are responsible for their actions not the police. We have been working with police and have been involved in the fight against violent street crime for 30 years around the world and we have never been sued for our actions.  We have a great relationship with the police. They recognize the value of what we are doing.  Preventing street crime is not just a job for the police. In fact, it is not a job at all.  It is a moral duty that everyone look after each other and help if someone is being attacked or get involved if we see a crime.  



            John "Unique" Ayala
            Director Of Operations
            Washington DC
            Guardian Angels
            202-359-0601
            www.guardianangels.org

            Guardian Angels and Police Officers
            working together to make
            a difference



          • khenderson029@aol.com
            When we began our citizen safety patrols back in 1999 we walked with the police and we still walk with the police. The Guardian Angels responded to our need
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 24, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              When we began our citizen safety patrols back in 1999 we walked with the police and we still walk with the police. The Guardian Angels responded to our need for greater resources in 2007 and we now walk with the police and Guardian Angels. I applaud the Guardian Angels for the work they have done in our community, communities throughout our country and internationally.
               
              The reality is that our police cannot be everywhere at all times to prevent crime. As citizens we must do our part to assist in keeping our communities safe. It helps to pick up the phone and call the police when we need them; however, even that is not enough. Safe communities do not just happen, they are made. We must do our part to send a strong message that our community will not tolerate crime, underscoring strict attention to signposts of neglect, like trash and graffiti. It is much easier to maintain a safe community from the beginning than to reclaim a community from criminals and it requires that we all roll up our sleeves to fix the problem. Making phone calls to the police or other government entities is frankly not enough; we need a multifaceted strategy that includes all of the entities, plus citizen involvement. Our community is a testament that the multifaceted strategy works.
               
              Kathy Henderson


              A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!
            • Deborah Golden
              This information is not consistent with the legal information that Commander Greeene sent around yesterday. It appears that the Guardian Angels think they have
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 24, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                This information is not consistent with the legal information that Commander Greeene sent around yesterday.
                It appears that the Guardian Angels think they have citizens arrest powers that they do not. I would hope that anyone thinking of working with the GA would get compentant legal advice before doing something that will surely subject them to legal liability.
                 
                I also hope that the MPD is not relying on the assurance from the GA that there is no city liability. I would think that the OAG's office should carefully evaluate the posibilities, so that we tax payers are not possibly paying for a mistake here.
                 
                -Deborah Golden
                On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 9:48 PM, midatlantic . <midatlantic@...> wrote:

                To the Concerned Residents,

                 
                The Guardian Angels are all volunteers and are in the community to assist residents and act as eyes and ears for the police.  We either have full time jobs or in school and spend our spare time giving back to the community.  We dare to care.  The police cannot do it alone; everyone must pitch in and help with reducing crime.
                 
                Just recently on 14th & Parkwood Streets, a homeless man was beaten and stomped and went into a comma for a few days.  Witnesses were standing around during this ordeal and no one did nothing to assist him.  The entire beating was videotaped by a neighborhood store surveillance camera.  He passed away due to his injuries. If bystanders had reported this to the police immediately, this young man could possibly be still alive today. 
                 
                I have answered your questions below.
                Do the guardians angels have special permission to detain people?  or is that also maybe called assault, battery or maybe kidnapping? and it can lead to a vigilante. 
                The Guardian Angels are not vigilantes.  We abide by the law and we are not judge, jury and executioner.  We have no special powers, and are no different from anyone else out on the street, except we are trained to work as a team.and we train in citizens arrest procedures.  We are also trained in first aid, which is hardly a vigilante type activity.  We are against violence.  Our aim is to help people who are in danger and act as a visual deterrent to crime.  It is the right and duty of all responsible people to help others.  The right to intervene to save someone's life is given to all of us by the laws of the country.


                Some of the answers are clear cut, eg, you can't detain someone for a minor crime unless you actually witnessed it

                The difference between making a citizens arrest and detainment:

                • A person who voluntarily remains where they are and agrees to answer questions is referred to as "detained".  Detainment means they are consenting to stay until the police arrive.  
                • Arrest means you are holding a person against their will.  

                When the lookout came over the air for the seven young men who assaulted the metro bus driver (X2 bus line) on 7th & H Sts NW, we saw some young men who fit the description. We informed dispatch that we were on 7th Street between G & H and have in our view some young men that fit the description.  We politely asked the young men to wait until the police arrive because they fit the description of suspects of a crime that had just occured.  We are aware that if the crime is a misdemeanor and we did not witness it, then we have no power to hold them against their will.


                When can a Guardian Angel make an arrest?

                a. For a misdemeanor crime - providing the Guardian Angel witnessed the crime being committed.
                b. For a felony crime - If the Guardian Angels either witnessed a crime or has reasonable cause to believe the suspect committed it.  The Guardian Angels does not have to witness the crime in order to make a citizens arrest on a suspect.

                If MPD continues to endorse/support this are they open to liability from lawsuits
                The Guardian Angels are responsible for their actions not the police. We have been working with police and have been involved in the fight against violent street crime for 30 years around the world and we have never been sued for our actions.  We have a great relationship with the police. They recognize the value of what we are doing.  Preventing street crime is not just a job for the police. In fact, it is not a job at all.  It is a moral duty that everyone look after each other and help if someone is being attacked or get involved if we see a crime.  



                John "Unique" Ayala
                Director Of Operations
                Washington DC
                Guardian Angels
                202-359-0601
                www.guardianangels.org

                Guardian Angels and Police Officers
                working together to make
                a difference


              • RobbyCU
                Thank you Ms. Golden I second that. Perhaps they are on the right side of the law, but at best the area is gray. The reality is that a citizen can ignore a
                Message 7 of 11 , Feb 24, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thank you Ms. Golden I second that. Perhaps they are on the right side of the law, but at best the area is gray. The reality is that a citizen can ignore a citizen's arrest, or request for detainment.  One can not so freely disobey a police request or requirement (order).   And even then a citizen has the right not to incriminate him or herself.

                  I am sure the GA's have done some good, they have vids of them taking back mean streets all over the nation. And there are also complaints.  The truth is somewhere in the middle.


                  Active and engaged citizens that cooperate with the police and work to improve their neighborhoods will be what sustainably saves the day.

                  The key is sustained change.

                  We deserve nothing, but the best quality of life. To get there we must work very hard at it. It means many of us will have to start working with and talking to the police.  It means working with young people to  end the anti snitching frame of mind that many hold close.

                  Can we get there, yes we can.

                  -Robby
                   
                  ______________________________________________
                  "Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek."

                  President Barack Obama



                  From: Deborah Golden <deb.golden@...>
                  To: MPD-5D@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 11:42:59 AM
                  Subject: Re: [MPD-5D] Washington DC Guardian Angels Patrols

                  This information is not consistent with the legal information that Commander Greeene sent around yesterday.
                  It appears that the Guardian Angels think they have citizens arrest powers that they do not. I would hope that anyone thinking of working with the GA would get compentant legal advice before doing something that will surely subject them to legal liability.
                   
                  I also hope that the MPD is not relying on the assurance from the GA that there is no city liability. I would think that the OAG's office should carefully evaluate the posibilities, so that we tax payers are not possibly paying for a mistake here.
                   
                  -Deborah Golden
                  On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 9:48 PM, midatlantic . <midatlantic@...> wrote:

                  To the Concerned Residents,

                   
                  The Guardian Angels are all volunteers and are in the community to assist residents and act as eyes and ears for the police.  We either have full time jobs or in school and spend our spare time giving back to the community.  We dare to care.  The police cannot do it alone; everyone must pitch in and help with reducing crime.
                   
                  Just recently on 14th & Parkwood Streets, a homeless man was beaten and stomped and went into a comma for a few days.  Witnesses were standing around during this ordeal and no one did nothing to assist him.  The entire beating was videotaped by a neighborhood store surveillance camera.  He passed away due to his injuries. If bystanders had reported this to the police immediately, this young man could possibly be still alive today. 
                   
                  I have answered your questions below.
                  Do the guardians angels have special permission to detain people?  or is that also maybe called assault, battery or maybe kidnapping? and it can lead to a vigilante. 
                  The Guardian Angels are not vigilantes.  We abide by the law and we are not judge, jury and executioner.  We have no special powers, and are no different from anyone else out on the street, except we are trained to work as a team.and we train in citizens arrest procedures.  We are also trained in first aid, which is hardly a vigilante type activity.  We are against violence.  Our aim is to help people who are in danger and act as a visual deterrent to crime.  It is the right and duty of all responsible people to help others.  The right to intervene to save someone's life is given to all of us by the laws of the country.


                  Some of the answers are clear cut, eg, you can't detain someone for a minor crime unless you actually witnessed it

                  The difference between making a citizens arrest and detainment:

                  • A person who voluntarily remains where they are and agrees to answer questions is referred to as "detained".  Detainment means they are consenting to stay until the police arrive.  
                  • Arrest means you are holding a person against their will.  

                  When the lookout came over the air for the seven young men who assaulted the metro bus driver (X2 bus line) on 7th & H Sts NW, we saw some young men who fit the description. We informed dispatch that we were on 7th Street between G & H and have in our view some young men that fit the description.  We politely asked the young men to wait until the police arrive because they fit the description of suspects of a crime that had just occured.  We are aware that if the crime is a misdemeanor and we did not witness it, then we have no power to hold them against their will.


                  When can a Guardian Angel make an arrest?

                  a. For a misdemeanor crime - providing the Guardian Angel witnessed the crime being committed.
                  b. For a felony crime - If the Guardian Angels either witnessed a crime or has reasonable cause to believe the suspect committed it.  The Guardian Angels does not have to witness the crime in order to make a citizens arrest on a suspect.

                  If MPD continues to endorse/support this are they open to liability from lawsuits
                  The Guardian Angels are responsible for their actions not the police. We have been working with police and have been involved in the fight against violent street crime for 30 years around the world and we have never been sued for our actions.  We have a great relationship with the police. They recognize the value of what we are doing.  Preventing street crime is not just a job for the police. In fact, it is not a job at all.  It is a moral duty that everyone look after each other and help if someone is being attacked or get involved if we see a crime.  



                  John "Unique" Ayala
                  Director Of Operations
                  Washington DC
                  Guardian Angels
                  202-359-0601
                  www.guardianangels.org

                  Guardian Angels and Police Officers
                  working together to make
                  a difference




                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.